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This is what I was thinking, but since my thermodynamics training is
insufficient, I'd like to enlist your help.
Besides your technical expertise (sorry I can't say the same for your
political judgement) you're down there where the water is warm.
What we need is a heat extraction process that will at least add
locomotion power to a boat.
Start small, with a small boat as the initial target. Don't worry
about speed for now, just get the extraction process working so it
show a power gain after start-up.
There's got to be a way to make use of the seawater heat.
If you get this going, you can make a bundle and be the hero of
boaters everywhere.
It goes without saying you have to think out of the box.
(I'm writing this, so technically I didn't say that.)
On the off chance you can't get a solution worked out, I've
got another idea which makes use of wind and cloth.
But that's low-hanging fruit, and I prefer to think big for now.
What say you?

--Vic

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:07:53 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

This is what I was thinking, but since my thermodynamics training is
insufficient, I'd like to enlist your help.
Besides your technical expertise (sorry I can't say the same for your
political judgement) you're down there where the water is warm.
What we need is a heat extraction process that will at least add
locomotion power to a boat.

Actually you need a temperature "difference" to extract mechanical
power. Most of the sea water power schemes that I've seen rely on
using the temp difference between warm water on top and cool water
from the depths. That might work for a stationary power plant but
would create way too much drag for a useful boat.

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

On Oct 7, 4:07 pm, Vic Smith wrote:
This is what I was thinking, but since my thermodynamics training is
insufficient, I'd like to enlist your help.
Besides your technical expertise (sorry I can't say the same for your
political judgement) you're down there where the water is warm.
What we need is a heat extraction process that will at least add
locomotion power to a boat.
Start small, with a small boat as the initial target. Don't worry
about speed for now, just get the extraction process working so it
show a power gain after start-up.
There's got to be a way to make use of the seawater heat.
If you get this going, you can make a bundle and be the hero of
boaters everywhere.
It goes without saying you have to think out of the box.
(I'm writing this, so technically I didn't say that.)
On the off chance you can't get a solution worked out, I've
got another idea which makes use of wind and cloth.
But that's low-hanging fruit, and I prefer to think big for now.
What say you?

--Vic

I'll admit, I nearly flunked Statistical Mechanics. I prefer
Electromagnetism where I can picture the fields. However, this being
a heat engine, the efficiency is limited by the ratio of temps.
Basically, the greater your difference in temps the higher
efficiency. You might look up Sterling Engines as they are good at
using "Waste Heat" and are prob highest efficiency of most heat
engines. A Sterling uses heat to heat the gas in the cylinder (often
Helium), does work and then dumps the heat into the cold reservoir.
Sterlings tend to have poor power to weight ratios but this would be
ok for a ship.
Got any ideas involving x-rays?

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:36:56 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:07:53 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

This is what I was thinking, but since my thermodynamics training is
insufficient, I'd like to enlist your help.
Besides your technical expertise (sorry I can't say the same for your
political judgement) you're down there where the water is warm.
What we need is a heat extraction process that will at least add
locomotion power to a boat.

Actually you need a temperature "difference" to extract mechanical
power. Most of the sea water power schemes that I've seen rely on
using the temp difference between warm water on top and cool water
from the depths. That might work for a stationary power plant but
would create way too much drag for a useful boat.

Sure that's conventional "wisdom." Why I said think out of the box.
Remember, the blonde had a solution to avoiding melting when setting
down a spaceship on the sun. You land at night time.

--Vic

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 13:44:20 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:


I'll admit, I nearly flunked Statistical Mechanics. I prefer
Electromagnetism where I can picture the fields. However, this being
a heat engine, the efficiency is limited by the ratio of temps.
Basically, the greater your difference in temps the higher
efficiency. You might look up Sterling Engines as they are good at
using "Waste Heat" and are prob highest efficiency of most heat
engines. A Sterling uses heat to heat the gas in the cylinder (often
Helium), does work and then dumps the heat into the cold reservoir.
Sterlings tend to have poor power to weight ratios but this would be
ok for a ship.
Got any ideas involving x-rays?

I'll get one of my sons on it. The engineer one, not the truck
suspension one.
He won a $500 Westinghouse award in HS for a design idea.
It was what looked like a pair of eyeglasses, for blind people.
Emitted ultrasonic pulses from left and right sides and returned
signals to earpieces. So blind people would have bat-like "vision."
Never seen them produced. The dog lobby probably stopped it.

--Vic

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:07:53 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

This is what I was thinking, but since my thermodynamics training is
insufficient, I'd like to enlist your help.
Besides your technical expertise (sorry I can't say the same for your
political judgement) you're down there where the water is warm.
What we need is a heat extraction process that will at least add
locomotion power to a boat.

Actually you need a temperature "difference" to extract mechanical
power. Most of the sea water power schemes that I've seen rely on
using the temp difference between warm water on top and cool water
from the depths. That might work for a stationary power plant but
would create way too much drag for a useful boat.


Thermocouples will work in heat alone. Proposals to help fuel economy by
placing thermocouples along the exhaust pipe to turn waste heat into
electrical energy.

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

On Oct 7, 5:26 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:07:53 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

This is what I was thinking, but since my thermodynamics training is
insufficient, I'd like to enlist your help.
Besides your technical expertise (sorry I can't say the same for your
political judgement) you're down there where the water is warm.
What we need is a heat extraction process that will at least add
locomotion power to a boat.

Actually you need a temperature "difference" to extract mechanical
power. Most of the sea water power schemes that I've seen rely on
using the temp difference between warm water on top and cool water
from the depths. That might work for a stationary power plant but
would create way too much drag for a useful boat.

Thermocouples will work in heat alone. Proposals to help fuel economy by
placing thermocouples along the exhaust pipe to turn waste heat into
electrical energy.

Power it with one of those "Bobbing Duck" toys that If I remember
right are filled with ammonia. They are also heat engines.

Thermodynamics, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHrg, nightmares of grad school.
Statistical Mechanics, deriving all the laws of physics and even
entropy from basic statistical considerations was taught by a great
guy but I simply could not get it. EVERY DAY, he'd come to class,
draw a box and start putting dots in it, sometimes they were labelled
to be distinct and sometimes all identical. When deriving physical
laws, he insisted on using a weird system where e=h=c=G=1 so he did
not have to keep writing them down and he therefor lost me entirely.
I despaired of passing and just hung in there in spite of flunking
every test. DAMN if he didnt pass me. Turns out, there were two guys
who dropped out and he passed me cuz I was so stubborn than god. To
this day, at least once a week, I have nightmares of this. I gave up
a good job amd moved all the way across the country for grad school
and NOW I am failing, AHHHHHHHHH, then I wake up.

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 13:44:20 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

You might look up Sterling Engines as they are good at
using "Waste Heat" and are prob highest efficiency of most heat
engines

Efficiency is determined by the hot and cold temperatures, not the
design of the engine.

Casady

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

On Oct 7, 5:26*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...





On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:07:53 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

This is what I was thinking, but since my thermodynamics training is
insufficient, I'd like to enlist your help.
Besides your technical expertise (sorry I can't say the same for your
political judgement) you're down there where the water is warm.
What we need is a heat extraction process that will at least add
locomotion power to a boat.

Actually you need a temperature "difference" to extract mechanical
power. *Most of the sea water power schemes that I've seen rely on
using the temp difference between warm water on top and cool water
from the depths. * That might work for a stationary power plant but
would create *way too much drag for a useful boat.

Thermocouples will work in heat alone. *Proposals to help fuel economy by
placing thermocouples along the exhaust pipe to turn waste heat into
electrical energy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thermocouples cool themselves by generating electricity. You don't
have enough heat in the sea water for thermocouples.

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 10:52:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Oct 7, 5:26*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...





On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:07:53 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

This is what I was thinking, but since my thermodynamics training is
insufficient, I'd like to enlist your help.
Besides your technical expertise (sorry I can't say the same for your
political judgement) you're down there where the water is warm.
What we need is a heat extraction process that will at least add
locomotion power to a boat.

Actually you need a temperature "difference" to extract mechanical
power. *Most of the sea water power schemes that I've seen rely on
using the temp difference between warm water on top and cool water
from the depths. * That might work for a stationary power plant but
would create *way too much drag for a useful boat.

Thermocouples will work in heat alone. *Proposals to help fuel economy by
placing thermocouples along the exhaust pipe to turn waste heat into
electrical energy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thermocouples cool themselves by generating electricity. You don't
have enough heat in the sea water for thermocouples.

Thermocouples have to have both a hot junction and a cold one to work.

Casady

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 10:52:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Oct 7, 5:26 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...





On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:07:53 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

This is what I was thinking, but since my thermodynamics training is
insufficient, I'd like to enlist your help.
Besides your technical expertise (sorry I can't say the same for your
political judgement) you're down there where the water is warm.
What we need is a heat extraction process that will at least add
locomotion power to a boat.

Actually you need a temperature "difference" to extract mechanical
power. Most of the sea water power schemes that I've seen rely on
using the temp difference between warm water on top and cool water
from the depths. That might work for a stationary power plant but
would create way too much drag for a useful boat.

Thermocouples will work in heat alone. Proposals to help fuel economy by
placing thermocouples along the exhaust pipe to turn waste heat into
electrical energy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thermocouples cool themselves by generating electricity. You don't
have enough heat in the sea water for thermocouples.

Thermocouples have to have both a hot junction and a cold one to work.

Casady

Huh? Then how come the thermocouple in the heater pilot light keeps
working?

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 17:36:54 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Richard Casady" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 10:52:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Oct 7, 5:26 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...





On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:07:53 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

This is what I was thinking, but since my thermodynamics training is
insufficient, I'd like to enlist your help.
Besides your technical expertise (sorry I can't say the same for your
political judgement) you're down there where the water is warm.
What we need is a heat extraction process that will at least add
locomotion power to a boat.

Actually you need a temperature "difference" to extract mechanical
power. Most of the sea water power schemes that I've seen rely on
using the temp difference between warm water on top and cool water
from the depths. That might work for a stationary power plant but
would create way too much drag for a useful boat.

Thermocouples will work in heat alone. Proposals to help fuel economy by
placing thermocouples along the exhaust pipe to turn waste heat into
electrical energy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thermocouples cool themselves by generating electricity. You don't
have enough heat in the sea water for thermocouples.

Thermocouples have to have both a hot junction and a cold one to work.

Casady

Huh? Then how come the thermocouple in the heater pilot light keeps
working?

Are you saying that all the wiring is at uniform flame temperature? I
didn't think so. What I said was that there has to a temperature
difference. Look up thermocouple in any physics text.

Wiki:Thermocouples measure the temperature difference between two
points, not absolute temperature. In traditional applications, one of
the junctions—the cold junction—was maintained at a known (reference)
temperature, while the other end was attached to a probe.


Casady

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 17:36:54 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Richard Casady" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 10:52:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Oct 7, 5:26 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...





On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:07:53 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

This is what I was thinking, but since my thermodynamics training is
insufficient, I'd like to enlist your help.
Besides your technical expertise (sorry I can't say the same for
your
political judgement) you're down there where the water is warm.
What we need is a heat extraction process that will at least add
locomotion power to a boat.

Actually you need a temperature "difference" to extract mechanical
power. Most of the sea water power schemes that I've seen rely on
using the temp difference between warm water on top and cool water
from the depths. That might work for a stationary power plant but
would create way too much drag for a useful boat.

Thermocouples will work in heat alone. Proposals to help fuel economy
by
placing thermocouples along the exhaust pipe to turn waste heat into
electrical energy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thermocouples cool themselves by generating electricity. You don't
have enough heat in the sea water for thermocouples.

Thermocouples have to have both a hot junction and a cold one to work.

Casady

Huh? Then how come the thermocouple in the heater pilot light keeps
working?

Are you saying that all the wiring is at uniform flame temperature? I
didn't think so. What I said was that there has to a temperature
difference. Look up thermocouple in any physics text.

Wiki:Thermocouples measure the temperature difference between two
points, not absolute temperature. In traditional applications, one of
the junctions-the cold junction-was maintained at a known (reference)
temperature, while the other end was attached to a probe.


Casady

Wiki is mistaken. The cold junction is where the temperature can be
measured. But thermocouples are disimilar metals the cause a current to be
generated between the two metals when heat is applied. Milliamps of
current, or a real small amount. You can make your own thermocouple by
connecting the special thermocouple wire together and heat the junction.
Enough current is caused to be able to pull a solenoid if required. Very
low current solenoid, but still current generated. Check out Omega Corp.
We used to buy the thermocouple wire they manufactured.

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 19:27:43 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

Wiki is mistaken. The cold junction is where the temperature can be
measured. But thermocouples are disimilar metals the cause a current to be
generated between the two metals when heat is applied. Milliamps of
current, or a real small amount. You can make your own thermocouple by
connecting the special thermocouple wire together and heat the junction.
Enough current is caused to be able to pull a solenoid if required. Very
low current solenoid, but still current generated. Check out Omega Corp.
We used to buy the thermocouple wire they manufactured.

The solenoid is a junction, of course. You have dissimilar wires
connected together at both ends. I have one intended to cover the
range -320F to 1800F so which end is hot or cold depends. So what?

Casady

Ping Ohara - Sea Water Heat Powered Boat
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 19:27:43 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

Wiki is mistaken. The cold junction is where the temperature can be
measured. But thermocouples are disimilar metals the cause a current to
be
generated between the two metals when heat is applied. Milliamps of
current, or a real small amount. You can make your own thermocouple by
connecting the special thermocouple wire together and heat the junction.
Enough current is caused to be able to pull a solenoid if required. Very
low current solenoid, but still current generated. Check out Omega Corp.
We used to buy the thermocouple wire they manufactured.

The solenoid is a junction, of course. You have dissimilar wires
connected together at both ends. I have one intended to cover the
range -320F to 1800F so which end is hot or cold depends. So what?

Casady

The only reason you need a junction at the other end is so you can have
current flow. The current is caused by the physics of the selected
dissimilar metals in contact in a heated enviroment.