engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. The motor idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or reverse gear
it cuts out. Is there some special switch that is out of adjustment???

Chuck

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

On Sep 18, 8:16*pm, "Chuck" wrote:
We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. *The motor idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or reverse gear
it cuts out. *Is there some special switch that is out of adjustment???

Chuck

Could be, Chuck. I dont' knwo a thing aboutt he Hondas, but Mercruiser
has a momentary kill swith that when the lower end in engaged into
either forward or reverse, there is a momentary "kill" that shuts the
ignition down for a split second so the lower end gears can engage
easier. The Honda may have the same type set up, but I really don't
know.

Now, if you shift it quickly from idle to forward with good throttle,
does the engine still die?

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Sep 18, 8:16 pm, "Chuck" wrote:
We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. The motor idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or reverse
gear
it cuts out. Is there some special switch that is out of adjustment???

Chuck

Could be, Chuck. I dont' knwo a thing aboutt he Hondas, but Mercruiser
has a momentary kill swith that when the lower end in engaged into
either forward or reverse, there is a momentary "kill" that shuts the
ignition down for a split second so the lower end gears can engage
easier. The Honda may have the same type set up, but I really don't
know.

Now, if you shift it quickly from idle to forward with good throttle,
does the engine still die?

-------------------------------------------

Actually, I think the Mercruiser momentarily kills ignition when shifting
"out" of gear into neutral. It has been a while, though, and maybe I am
mistaken.

Eisboch

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Sep 18, 8:16 pm, "Chuck" wrote:
We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. The motor idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or reverse
gear
it cuts out. Is there some special switch that is out of adjustment???

Chuck

Could be, Chuck. I dont' knwo a thing aboutt he Hondas, but Mercruiser
has a momentary kill swith that when the lower end in engaged into
either forward or reverse, there is a momentary "kill" that shuts the
ignition down for a split second so the lower end gears can engage
easier. The Honda may have the same type set up, but I really don't
know.

Now, if you shift it quickly from idle to forward with good throttle,
does the engine still die?

-------------------------------------------

Actually, I think the Mercruiser momentarily kills ignition when shifting
"out" of gear into neutral. It has been a while, though, and maybe I am
mistaken.

Eisboch


Correctamundo Eisboch. I was thinking he might have fish line wrapped
around the prop, jamming it. Or the idle is set way too low. Hopefully
one of the experts is still hanging around to answer the question, but
it would be understandable if Harry drove them off again with his
nonsense.

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

"jim" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Sep 18, 8:16 pm, "Chuck" wrote:
We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. The motor idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or reverse
gear
it cuts out. Is there some special switch that is out of adjustment???

Chuck

Could be, Chuck. I dont' knwo a thing aboutt he Hondas, but Mercruiser
has a momentary kill swith that when the lower end in engaged into
either forward or reverse, there is a momentary "kill" that shuts the
ignition down for a split second so the lower end gears can engage
easier. The Honda may have the same type set up, but I really don't
know.

Now, if you shift it quickly from idle to forward with good throttle,
does the engine still die?

-------------------------------------------

Actually, I think the Mercruiser momentarily kills ignition when
shifting "out" of gear into neutral. It has been a while, though, and
maybe I am mistaken.

Eisboch
Correctamundo Eisboch. I was thinking he might have fish line wrapped
around the prop, jamming it. Or the idle is set way too low. Hopefully one
of the experts is still hanging around to answer the question, but it
would be understandable if Harry drove them off again with his nonsense.


I was thinking something similar. The OP mentioned it was a *new* Honda 4
stroke. Being new, perhaps the gearing, prop shaft, etc. is not broken in
yet and the resistance is too much for the current idle setting.

Eisboch

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 06:11:58 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"jim" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Sep 18, 8:16 pm, "Chuck" wrote:
We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. The motor idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or reverse
gear
it cuts out. Is there some special switch that is out of adjustment???

Chuck

Could be, Chuck. I dont' knwo a thing aboutt he Hondas, but Mercruiser
has a momentary kill swith that when the lower end in engaged into
either forward or reverse, there is a momentary "kill" that shuts the
ignition down for a split second so the lower end gears can engage
easier. The Honda may have the same type set up, but I really don't
know.

Now, if you shift it quickly from idle to forward with good throttle,
does the engine still die?

-------------------------------------------

Actually, I think the Mercruiser momentarily kills ignition when
shifting "out" of gear into neutral. It has been a while, though, and
maybe I am mistaken.

Eisboch
Correctamundo Eisboch. I was thinking he might have fish line wrapped
around the prop, jamming it. Or the idle is set way too low. Hopefully one
of the experts is still hanging around to answer the question, but it
would be understandable if Harry drove them off again with his nonsense.


I was thinking something similar. The OP mentioned it was a *new* Honda 4
stroke. Being new, perhaps the gearing, prop shaft, etc. is not broken in
yet and the resistance is too much for the current idle setting.

Eisboch


Good thing you don't depend on your troubleshooting skills to put food
on the table. You'd lose a lot of weight.

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

Eisboch wrote:
"jim" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Sep 18, 8:16 pm, "Chuck" wrote:
We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. The motor idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or reverse
gear
it cuts out. Is there some special switch that is out of adjustment???

Chuck
Could be, Chuck. I dont' knwo a thing aboutt he Hondas, but Mercruiser
has a momentary kill swith that when the lower end in engaged into
either forward or reverse, there is a momentary "kill" that shuts the
ignition down for a split second so the lower end gears can engage
easier. The Honda may have the same type set up, but I really don't
know.

Now, if you shift it quickly from idle to forward with good throttle,
does the engine still die?

-------------------------------------------

Actually, I think the Mercruiser momentarily kills ignition when
shifting "out" of gear into neutral. It has been a while, though, and
maybe I am mistaken.

Eisboch
Correctamundo Eisboch. I was thinking he might have fish line wrapped
around the prop, jamming it. Or the idle is set way too low. Hopefully one
of the experts is still hanging around to answer the question, but it
would be understandable if Harry drove them off again with his nonsense.


I was thinking something similar. The OP mentioned it was a *new* Honda 4
stroke. Being new, perhaps the gearing, prop shaft, etc. is not broken in
yet and the resistance is too much for the current idle setting.

Eisboch




Gee, I would have guessed an adjustment might be necessary to the
throttle position sensor, or TPS.

"Being new, perhaps the gearing, prop shaft, etc. is not broken in
yet and the resistance is too much for the current idle setting."

Now *that* is pretty funny. You forgot to mention a too-stiff whammis.

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 06:11:58 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"jim" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Sep 18, 8:16 pm, "Chuck" wrote:
We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. The motor
idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or
reverse
gear
it cuts out. Is there some special switch that is out of adjustment???

Chuck

Could be, Chuck. I dont' knwo a thing aboutt he Hondas, but Mercruiser
has a momentary kill swith that when the lower end in engaged into
either forward or reverse, there is a momentary "kill" that shuts the
ignition down for a split second so the lower end gears can engage
easier. The Honda may have the same type set up, but I really don't
know.

Now, if you shift it quickly from idle to forward with good throttle,
does the engine still die?

-------------------------------------------

Actually, I think the Mercruiser momentarily kills ignition when
shifting "out" of gear into neutral. It has been a while, though, and
maybe I am mistaken.

Eisboch
Correctamundo Eisboch. I was thinking he might have fish line wrapped
around the prop, jamming it. Or the idle is set way too low. Hopefully
one
of the experts is still hanging around to answer the question, but it
would be understandable if Harry drove them off again with his nonsense.


I was thinking something similar. The OP mentioned it was a *new* Honda 4
stroke. Being new, perhaps the gearing, prop shaft, etc. is not broken
in
yet and the resistance is too much for the current idle setting.

Eisboch


Good thing you don't depend on your troubleshooting skills to put food
on the table. You'd lose a lot of weight.


Cute comment. Stupid, totally unnecessary or deserved, but cute. You need
better material to play your game.
Try to make your comments a bit funny, at least. I have a decent sense of
humor.

Eisboch

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 01:16:54 GMT, "Chuck" wrote:

We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. The motor idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or reverse gear
it cuts out. Is there some special switch that is out of adjustment???

Modern 4 strokes have a lot of sensor driven electronics. They are
difficult to troubleshoot without the proper diagnostic equipment and
software. I'd take it to a dealer if it were mine.

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:51:04 -0400, wrote:

depends on whether its a big 4-stroke or a little one. On a smaller
motor, this might very well be a matter of slightly adjusting a
needle screw on a carbuerator.

Possibly, but a new engine presumably still covered by the warranty,
I'd take it back and get it checked out.

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:49:44 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:04:38 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:49:52 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:23:55 -0400, wrote:

The symptom described, if on a smaller motor, requires removing the
top engine cover, and turing a screw about 1/8 of a turn or less.

Not anymore. These new motors are usually EFI and there isn't a screw
to turn. He said "pontoon" so I am thinking midrange (40 and up)
As I said earlier, on my Merc the idle speed is controlled by the
computer via a pulsed solenoid valve. The throttle body is completely
closed. If you pull the hose off the idle control solenoid you can rev
the engine up by controlling the air you let in by holding your finger
over the end of the hose. The computer will adjust the mix to the
amount of air it sees on the MAF sensor and what it sees in the oxygen
sensor.

For the VERY last time - I said on SOME SMALLER MOTORS. My smaller,
newer, 4-stroke motor has a CARB with adjustable needle valves.


And that is suitable for a pontoon boat?

Depends on the pontoon boat, and what you intend do do with it, but
sure it would. What does a 25 foot pontoon boat weigh? My "smaller"
4-stroke outboard pushes a 5000 pound displacement hull at hull speed
at about 1/4-1/3 throttle.


OK. I will get back to you guys next week on what the actual problem is. I
haven't been under the cover on this one at all yet.

Chuck

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

On Sep 19, 5:59�pm, "Chuck" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:49:44 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:04:38 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:49:52 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:23:55 -0400, wrote:

The symptom described, if on a smaller motor, requires removing the
top engine cover, and turing a screw about 1/8 of a turn or less.

Not anymore. These new motors are usually EFI and there isn't a screw
to turn. He said "pontoon" so I am thinking midrange (40 and up)
As I said earlier, on my Merc the idle speed is controlled by the
computer via a pulsed solenoid valve. The throttle body is completely
closed. If you pull the hose off the idle control solenoid you can rev
the engine up by controlling the air you let in by holding your finger
over the end of the hose. The computer will adjust the mix to the
amount of air it sees on the MAF sensor and what it sees in the oxygen
sensor.

For the VERY last time - I said on SOME SMALLER MOTORS. My smaller,
newer, 4-stroke motor has a CARB with adjustable needle valves.

And that is suitable for a pontoon boat?

Depends on the pontoon boat, and what you intend do do with it, but
sure it would. What does a 25 foot pontoon boat weigh? My "smaller"
4-stroke outboard pushes a 5000 pound displacement hull at hull speed
at about 1/4-1/3 throttle.

OK. �I will get back to you guys next week on what the actual problem is. �I
haven't been under the cover on this one at all yet.

Chuck- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. The motor
idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or
reverse gear
it cuts out. Is there some special switch that is out of
adjustment???

Chuck




Just a silly thought, but If the original post had included useful
info ("pontoon boat" isn't useful, neither is "new Honda 4 stroke")
like something about the year, size type and HP of the engine, FI or
carb equipped, this might have been resolved already.

Mike

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

Chuck- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. The motor
idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or
reverse gear
it cuts out. Is there some special switch that is out of
adjustment???

Chuck




Just a silly thought, but If the original post had included useful
info ("pontoon boat" isn't useful, neither is "new Honda 4 stroke")
like something about the year, size type and HP of the engine, FI or
carb equipped, this might have been resolved already.

Mike


For sure... problem is its 30 miles away from here and its my best buddy's
boat. He is not sure of any of those details or I surely would have
included them. Will have all the info next week.

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

"Chuck" wrote in message
news:ye9Bk.296961$TT4.101682@attbi_s22...

Chuck- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. The motor
idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or
reverse gear
it cuts out. Is there some special switch that is out of
adjustment???

Chuck




Just a silly thought, but If the original post had included useful
info ("pontoon boat" isn't useful, neither is "new Honda 4 stroke")
like something about the year, size type and HP of the engine, FI or
carb equipped, this might have been resolved already.

Mike


For sure... problem is its 30 miles away from here and its my best buddy's
boat. He is not sure of any of those details or I surely would have
included them. Will have all the info next week.
OK... as promised here is what I found. Engine started perfectly and revved
up in neutral. Engine barely had enough idle speed to keep running.
Removed the engine cover and tried to adjust the idle speed screw but it was
frozen. The solution: Bent the metal tang that the idle speed screw rests
on up slightly toward the screw to make the adjustment. Idle speed was
consistently 1000 rpm. and we drove it away. Thanks guys.

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

Chuck wrote:

"Chuck" wrote in message
news:ye9Bk.296961$TT4.101682@attbi_s22...

Chuck- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
We have a pontoon boat with a new Honda 4-stroke on it. The motor
idles
fine and revs in neutral but as soon as we put it in forward or
reverse gear
it cuts out. Is there some special switch that is out of
adjustment???

Chuck




Just a silly thought, but If the original post had included useful
info ("pontoon boat" isn't useful, neither is "new Honda 4 stroke")
like something about the year, size type and HP of the engine, FI or
carb equipped, this might have been resolved already.

Mike


For sure... problem is its 30 miles away from here and its my best
buddy's boat. He is not sure of any of those details or I surely
would have included them. Will have all the info next week.
OK... as promised here is what I found. Engine started perfectly and
revved up in neutral. Engine barely had enough idle speed to keep
running. Removed the engine cover and tried to adjust the idle speed
screw but it was frozen. The solution: Bent the metal tang that the
idle speed screw rests on up slightly toward the screw to make the
adjustment. Idle speed was consistently 1000 rpm. and we drove it
away. Thanks guys.


1000 RPM seems a bit high for an idle speed.

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

Just a silly thought, but If the original post had included useful
info ("pontoon boat" isn't useful, neither is "new Honda 4 stroke")
like something about the year, size type and HP of the engine, FI or
carb equipped, this might have been resolved already.

Mike


For sure... problem is its 30 miles away from here and its my best
buddy's boat. He is not sure of any of those details or I surely would
have included them. Will have all the info next week.
OK... as promised here is what I found. Engine started perfectly and
revved up in neutral. Engine barely had enough idle speed to keep
running. Removed the engine cover and tried to adjust the idle speed
screw but it was frozen. The solution: Bent the metal tang that the
idle speed screw rests on up slightly toward the screw to make the
adjustment. Idle speed was consistently 1000 rpm. and we drove it away.
Thanks guys.


1000 RPM seems a bit high for an idle speed.

Hmmmmmm........ it seemed right at the time. What is an acceptable idles
speed for a four stroke outboard?

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

Chuck wrote:
Just a silly thought, but If the original post had included useful
info ("pontoon boat" isn't useful, neither is "new Honda 4 stroke")
like something about the year, size type and HP of the engine, FI or
carb equipped, this might have been resolved already.

Mike


For sure... problem is its 30 miles away from here and its my best
buddy's boat. He is not sure of any of those details or I surely
would have included them. Will have all the info next week.
OK... as promised here is what I found. Engine started perfectly and
revved up in neutral. Engine barely had enough idle speed to keep
running. Removed the engine cover and tried to adjust the idle speed
screw but it was frozen. The solution: Bent the metal tang that the
idle speed screw rests on up slightly toward the screw to make the
adjustment. Idle speed was consistently 1000 rpm. and we drove it
away. Thanks guys.


1000 RPM seems a bit high for an idle speed.

Hmmmmmm........ it seemed right at the time. What is an acceptable
idles speed for a four stroke outboard?


Your manual might tell you. The two I've owned idled at 650-700 rpm.

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:51:40 GMT, "Chuck" wrote:

1000 RPM seems a bit high for an idle speed.

Hmmmmmm........ it seemed right at the time. What is an acceptable idles
speed for a four stroke outboard?

My experience with car engines is that six to seven about covers the
usual range. All modern cars are FI which will idle at a lower speed
than bad carburation. My race car burns methanol, has no flywheel,
[there is a U-joint bolted direct to the crankshaft], and idles at
about 2500. And if you goose it in neutral, it grows a foot diameter
fireball at the tips of the headers.

Casady

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

Chuck wrote:
Just a silly thought, but If the original post had included useful
info ("pontoon boat" isn't useful, neither is "new Honda 4 stroke")
like something about the year, size type and HP of the engine, FI or
carb equipped, this might have been resolved already.

Mike


For sure... problem is its 30 miles away from here and its my best
buddy's boat. He is not sure of any of those details or I surely
would have included them. Will have all the info next week.
OK... as promised here is what I found. Engine started perfectly and
revved up in neutral. Engine barely had enough idle speed to keep
running. Removed the engine cover and tried to adjust the idle speed
screw but it was frozen. The solution: Bent the metal tang that the
idle speed screw rests on up slightly toward the screw to make the
adjustment. Idle speed was consistently 1000 rpm. and we drove it
away. Thanks guys.


1000 RPM seems a bit high for an idle speed.

Hmmmmmm........ it seemed right at the time. What is an acceptable
idles speed for a four stroke outboard?

That would depend on the size of the OB.

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:51:40 GMT, "Chuck" wrote:

1000 RPM seems a bit high for an idle speed.

Hmmmmmm........ it seemed right at the time. What is an acceptable idles
speed for a four stroke outboard?

I don't think we ever established whether this was electronic fuel
injection but if so, it sounds like you have advanced the throttle
plate far enough to bypass the idle circuit.
1000 is about 250 too high and will be tough on the gears in the
lower end.

Its triple carbureted. I didn't see anything written on the case but I
think its about a 50hp and a 2003 model year. Top end when running it home
was only 4200rpm wide open. Anyway we got it moved and all is well.

engine dies as soon as its put in gear???
 

You should check to see if you have a dead cylinder. To do that, set the
idle just above where it wont stumble and stall. Then pull and put back the
spark plug wires one at a time. If the engine DOESN'T slow down or stall
when you pull a wire, you have found a dead cylinder. The problem could be a
bad spark plug, valve, carburetor, or something more sinister.

"Chuck" wrote in message
news:gIfFk.370026$yE1.115548@attbi_s21...

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:51:40 GMT, "Chuck" wrote:

1000 RPM seems a bit high for an idle speed.

Hmmmmmm........ it seemed right at the time. What is an acceptable idles
speed for a four stroke outboard?

I don't think we ever established whether this was electronic fuel
injection but if so, it sounds like you have advanced the throttle
plate far enough to bypass the idle circuit.
1000 is about 250 too high and will be tough on the gears in the
lower end.

Its triple carbureted. I didn't see anything written on the case but I
think its about a 50hp and a 2003 model year. Top end when running it
home was only 4200rpm wide open. Anyway we got it moved and all is well.