|
2-cycle ring installation
I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is
generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. TJ |
2-cycle ring installation
On Sep 9, 8:50*am, TJ wrote:
I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. TJ TJ, any shop manual I've seen for any type of 2 cycles used the same honing procedure as a 4 stroke. So, after checking taper, out of round, and out of spec bore, I'd use a ball type hone if it were me. |
2-cycle ring installation
"TJ" wrote in message
... I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. TJ Majority of the time. There have been a few 2 strokes that used chrome cylinders. Those can not be bored or honed. It's unlikely that you have one but pretty obvious when you look at them. |
2-cycle ring installation
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message m... "TJ" wrote in message ... I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. TJ Majority of the time. There have been a few 2 strokes that used chrome cylinders. Those can not be bored or honed. It's unlikely that you have one but pretty obvious when you look at them. I was told that the cylinders become somewhat oblong rather than round in diameter on engines with a lot of hours and usually require boring first when rebuilding. Eisboch |
2-cycle ring installation
jamesgangnc wrote:
"TJ" wrote in message ... I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. TJ Majority of the time. There have been a few 2 strokes that used chrome cylinders. Those can not be bored or honed. It's unlikely that you have one but pretty obvious when you look at them. Yeah, I ran into that once with a chainsaw. Had to replace the whole block. These days, I probably wouldn't do that again. Chainsaws are everywhere, and always on sale somewhere. Even good ones, sometimes. TJ |
2-cycle ring installation
Eisboch wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message m... "TJ" wrote in message ... I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. TJ Majority of the time. There have been a few 2 strokes that used chrome cylinders. Those can not be bored or honed. It's unlikely that you have one but pretty obvious when you look at them. I was told that the cylinders become somewhat oblong rather than round in diameter on engines with a lot of hours and usually require boring first when rebuilding. Eisboch This was a used block, so I don't know how many hours it had on it before I got it. However, since I've had it I'd calculate less than 1000 over the course of 20 years. Oh, and maybe five minutes of running overheated. But considering the way it still starts and runs, I'm gonna gamble that it's not TOO far out-of-round. I have a hone I've used on small engines before. It's one of those that goes in a drill and has three spring-loaded legs with small stones on them. It should do the job OK. It worked on my garden tractor, and that has many more hours than the outboard has. TJ |
2-cycle ring installation
On Sep 9, 12:26*pm, TJ wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote: "TJ" wrote in message ... I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. TJ Majority of the time. *There have been a few 2 strokes that used chrome cylinders. *Those can not be bored or honed. *It's unlikely that you have one but pretty obvious when you look at them. Yeah, I ran into that once with a chainsaw. Had to replace the whole block. These days, I probably wouldn't do that again. Chainsaws are everywhere, and always on sale somewhere. Even good ones, sometimes. TJ- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yeah, I know what you mean! Used to be, I'd rebuild anything, now days, it's almost cheaper to go buy another chain saw, blower, or weed whacker! |
2-cycle ring installation
On Sep 9, 10:03*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message m... "TJ" wrote in message ... I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. TJ Majority of the time. *There have been a few 2 strokes that used chrome cylinders. *Those can not be bored or honed. *It's unlikely that you have one but pretty obvious when you look at them. I was told that the cylinders become somewhat oblong rather than round in diameter on engines with a lot of hours and usually require boring first when rebuilding. Eisboch One thing to watch out for, is taper. If the bottom portion of the cylinder bore is out of spec, you can get piston slap. If the bore gets too large, it can slap so hard that the piston skirts break. |
2-cycle ring installation
All depends if it's a steel, chrome, nicksil, or nicom cylinder bore.
"TJ" wrote in message ... I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. TJ |
2-cycle ring installation
On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:33:28 -0400, "Lost In Space/Woodchuck"
wrote: All depends if it's a steel, chrome, nicksil, or nicom cylinder bore. "TJ" wrote in message ... I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. Most cars are plain cast iron: most outboards are plain aluminum. Casady |
2-cycle ring installation
|
2-cycle ring installation
wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:32:22 GMT, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:33:28 -0400, "Lost In Space/Woodchuck" wrote: All depends if it's a steel, chrome, nicksil, or nicom cylinder bore. "TJ" wrote in message .. . I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. Most cars are plain cast iron: most outboards are plain aluminum. Casady Most aluminum cylinders have a sleeve of another, harder material. A "plain aluminum" cylinder wouldn't live very long. I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega. |
2-cycle ring installation
"Calif Bill" wrote in message m... I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega. I think you are correct. Aluminum can be hard anodized however, resulting in a surface hardness on the Rockwell scale very close to steel. Eisboch |
2-cycle ring installation
wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:14:46 -0700, "Calif Bill" wrote: wrote in message . .. On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:32:22 GMT, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:33:28 -0400, "Lost In Space/Woodchuck" wrote: All depends if it's a steel, chrome, nicksil, or nicom cylinder bore. "TJ" wrote in message .. . I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. Most cars are plain cast iron: most outboards are plain aluminum. Casady Most aluminum cylinders have a sleeve of another, harder material. A "plain aluminum" cylinder wouldn't live very long. I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega. I think you are wrong about that, as well. The cylinder bore was silicon in early models and they later switched to iron sleeves. They had additional woes due to the iron head mated to the aluminum block. Was a high silicon content aluminum. Had to be injection molded and cooled quickly or the silicon would precipitate out of the aluminum and leave a soft aluminum surface. The problem was defective head gaskets. They were porous. |
2-cycle ring installation
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message m... I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega. I think you are correct. Aluminum can be hard anodized however, resulting in a surface hardness on the Rockwell scale very close to steel. Eisboch See my other reply regards the silicon content. |
2-cycle ring installation
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message m... I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega. I think you are correct. Aluminum can be hard anodized however, resulting in a surface hardness on the Rockwell scale very close to steel. Eisboch Further on this: (I looked it up because I was curious) ..... The original Vega block was a cast aluminum alloy, called 390, that was 16-18% Silicon, 4-4.5% Copper and the rest, pure aluminum. It had no cast iron cylinder liners. The Si content increased wear resistance by allowing primary crystals of Si to precipitate out of the aluminum. This was all part of a general industry driven evolution of the use of aluminum as new alloys were developed and applications were being tried. It's also one of the reasons I've never been a big GM fan. It seems like they, more so than the other manufacturers, have a history of experimenting with things, like metallurgy in this case, using their customer's cars as the guinea pig test beds. In the case of the Vega, it certainly was a flop. Eisboch |
2-cycle ring installation
On Sep 11, 12:50*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message om... I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega. I think you are correct. Aluminum can be hard anodized however, resulting in a surface hardness on the Rockwell scale very close to steel. Eisboch Further on this: *(I looked it up because I was curious) ..... The original Vega block was a cast aluminum alloy, called 390, that was 16-18% Silicon, 4-4.5% Copper and the rest, pure aluminum. It had no cast iron cylinder liners. *The Si content increased wear resistance by allowing primary crystals of Si to precipitate out of the aluminum. This was all part of a general industry driven evolution of the use of aluminum as new alloys were developed and applications were being tried. It's also one of the reasons I've never been a big GM fan. * It seems like they, more so than the other manufacturers, have a history of experimenting with things, like metallurgy in this case, using their customer's cars as the guinea pig test beds. In the case of the Vega, it certainly was a flop. Eisboch- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yeah, they public becomes the lab rat, and yes, gm was/is guilty. when they put the steel liners in that vega engine, they made a good engine... finally. But it lasted about a year or so and got ditched because the pubic was sick of their crap. |
2-cycle ring installation
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:40:50 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:14:46 -0700, "Calif Bill" wrote: wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:32:22 GMT, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:33:28 -0400, "Lost In Space/Woodchuck" wrote: All depends if it's a steel, chrome, nicksil, or nicom cylinder bore. "TJ" wrote in message . .. I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze, so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle engines? I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check. Most cars are plain cast iron: most outboards are plain aluminum. Casady Most aluminum cylinders have a sleeve of another, harder material. A "plain aluminum" cylinder wouldn't live very long. I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega. I think you are wrong about that, as well. The cylinder bore was silicon in early models and they later switched to iron sleeves. They had additional woes due to the iron head mated to the aluminum block. Was a high silicon content aluminum. Had to be injection molded and cooled quickly or the silicon would precipitate out of the aluminum and leave a soft aluminum surface. The problem was defective head gaskets. They were porous. Nope. The cylinders got etched leaving a silicon bore. The problem with the head gaskets was the different expansion and contraction rates of the iron head on the alumninum block. No gasket in the world could make up for that, as they found out. |
2-cycle ring installation
On Sep 11, 1:50*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message om... I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega. I think you are correct. Aluminum can be hard anodized however, resulting in a surface hardness on the Rockwell scale very close to steel. Eisboch Further on this: *(I looked it up because I was curious) ..... The original Vega block was a cast aluminum alloy, called 390, that was 16-18% Silicon, 4-4.5% Copper and the rest, pure aluminum. It had no cast iron cylinder liners. *The Si content increased wear resistance by allowing primary crystals of Si to precipitate out of the aluminum. This was all part of a general industry driven evolution of the use of aluminum as new alloys were developed and applications were being tried. It's also one of the reasons I've never been a big GM fan. * It seems like they, more so than the other manufacturers, have a history of experimenting with things, like metallurgy in this case, using their customer's cars as the guinea pig test beds. In the case of the Vega, it certainly was a flop. Eisboch- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'll tell ya something about the Vega and Pinto. Although they were both pieces of crap, it was the start of new technology that produced smaller power plants that had decent weight to power ratios. A lot of the technology from those days drove what's in today's vehicles. |
2-cycle ring installation
wrote in message ... I'll tell ya something about the Vega and Pinto. Although they were both pieces of crap, it was the start of new technology that produced smaller power plants that had decent weight to power ratios. A lot of the technology from those days drove what's in today's vehicles. ---------------------------------- We had a '72 Pinto. It was the first new car I ever bought. $2,600 bucks, financed through the Navy Federal Credit Union. Other than the issue of the exploding gas tank if you got hit from the rear, it was actually not a bad little car. When I was transferred to Puerto Rico, I shipped it there. About a month later a local walked up our driveway and asked, "How much?" At first I didn't know what he was asking (speaking in Spanish). He pulled a wad of bills out of his pocket and offered me $3,000. I shook my head "No", and he added another 200 bucks. I took the cash and handed him the keys. Eisboch |
2-cycle ring installation
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message ... I'll tell ya something about the Vega and Pinto. Although they were both pieces of crap, it was the start of new technology that produced smaller power plants that had decent weight to power ratios. A lot of the technology from those days drove what's in today's vehicles. ---------------------------------- We had a '72 Pinto. It was the first new car I ever bought. $2,600 bucks, financed through the Navy Federal Credit Union. Other than the issue of the exploding gas tank if you got hit from the rear, it was actually not a bad little car. When I was transferred to Puerto Rico, I shipped it there. About a month later a local walked up our driveway and asked, "How much?" At first I didn't know what he was asking (speaking in Spanish). He pulled a wad of bills out of his pocket and offered me $3,000. I shook my head "No", and he added another 200 bucks. I took the cash and handed him the keys. Eisboch Smaller power plants with higher power to weight (and displacement) ratios were being used in European cars long before the American manufacturers began to market them in a serious manner. Are any U.S. manufacturers still using pushrods instead of overhead cams? |
2-cycle ring installation
On Sep 11, 9:31*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message ... I'll tell ya something about the Vega and Pinto. Although they were both pieces of crap, it was the start of new technology that produced smaller power plants that had decent weight to power ratios. A lot of the technology from those days drove what's in today's vehicles. ---------------------------------- We had a '72 Pinto. *It was the first new car I ever bought. *$2,600 bucks, financed through the Navy Federal Credit Union. Other than the issue of the exploding gas tank if you got hit from the rear, it was actually not a bad little car. When I was transferred to Puerto Rico, I shipped it there. *About a month later a local walked up our driveway and asked, "How much?" * At first I didn't know what he was asking *(speaking in Spanish). * He pulled a wad of bills out of his pocket and offered me $3,000. * I shook my head "No", and he added another 200 bucks. * I took the cash and handed him the keys. Eisboch My wife tells a funny story about a Pinto she owned. It got stolen in San Francisco. If I remember, it had the Rolls Royce looking front end. Anyway, she calls the cops, cops come, ask her for information. She's crying. goes through the description, and she tells them it's a such and such color Pinto. The cop just looked at her and said, why are you crying?! |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:30 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com