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Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
As The Wrench Turns...
Got the heads off; and posted some pics on the metalworking Dropbox at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/ See valve.jpg 3 pics No damage to the cylinder wall or head, and just a couple minor dings on the piston crown. Lucky me. JR HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
JR North wrote:
As The Wrench Turns... Got the heads off; and posted some pics on the metalworking Dropbox at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/ See valve.jpg 3 pics No damage to the cylinder wall or head, and just a couple minor dings on the piston crown. Lucky me. JR HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- Definitely looks broken! Hope it goes back together without any more problems. |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Jul 25, 1:47*am, JR North wrote:
As The Wrench Turns... Got the heads off; and posted some pics on the metalworking Dropbox at:http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/ See valve.jpg *3 pics No damage to the cylinder wall or head, and just a couple minor dings on the piston crown. Lucky me. JR HOME PAGE:http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- I was surprised how corroded the combustion chamber was! |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
"JR North" wrote in message
... As The Wrench Turns... Got the heads off; and posted some pics on the metalworking Dropbox at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/ See valve.jpg 3 pics No damage to the cylinder wall or head, and just a couple minor dings on the piston crown. Lucky me. JR HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- That's a lot of rust on that head. Other one look like that? |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
JR North wrote:
As The Wrench Turns... Got the heads off; and posted some pics on the metalworking Dropbox at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/ See valve.jpg 3 pics No damage to the cylinder wall or head, and just a couple minor dings on the piston crown. Lucky me. JR HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- It does look like someone forgot to fog the engine. ;) |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
wrote in message
... On Jul 25, 8:03 am, "jamesgangnc" wrote: "JR North" wrote in message ... As The Wrench Turns... Got the heads off; and posted some pics on the metalworking Dropbox at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/ See valve.jpg 3 pics No damage to the cylinder wall or head, and just a couple minor dings on the piston crown. Lucky me. JR HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- That's a lot of rust on that head. Other one look like that? That's what I thought......certainly makes think about whether this is common with I/O's. Never owned one, so I don't know. I believe he said he fogged it, didn't he? Not the ones I see. But then I'm in "trailer boating in lakes" land here in Raleigh. Might be sitting in a slip in salt water does it. There is going to be one or two cylinders sitting with the exhaust valve open when the engine is shut off just about everytime. If the boat sits in water then the humidity is going to remain high through the exhaust system so it will get high in the cylinder as well. It's not specific to an i/o though, any boat with an inboard marinized auto engine is going to be in the same situation. I would have expected the small amount of oil that gets past the valve stems to keep the valves from sticking though. The main issue specific to i/os in a slip is that the outdrive sits in the water. Most outboards can be raised enough to get the entire engine out of the water. Regular use would probably reduce the problem. And that might explain why commercial fishing boats run marinized auto engines for a long time without problems. |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Jul 25, 9:14*am, "jamesgangnc" wrote:
wrote in message ... On Jul 25, 8:03 am, "jamesgangnc" wrote: "JR North" wrote in message .. . As The Wrench Turns... Got the heads off; and posted some pics on the metalworking Dropbox at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/ See valve.jpg 3 pics No damage to the cylinder wall or head, and just a couple minor dings on the piston crown. Lucky me. JR HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- That's a lot of rust on that head. Other one look like that? That's what I thought......certainly makes think about whether this is common with I/O's. Never owned one, so I don't know. I believe he said he fogged it, didn't he? Not the ones I see. *But then I'm in "trailer boating in lakes" land here in Raleigh. *Might be sitting in a slip in salt water does it. *There is going to be one or two cylinders sitting with the exhaust valve open when the engine is shut off just about everytime. *If the boat sits in water then the humidity is going to remain high through the exhaust system so it will get high in the cylinder as well. *It's not specific to an i/o though, any boat with an inboard marinized auto engine is going to be in the same situation. |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message m... wrote in message ... On Jul 25, 8:03 am, "jamesgangnc" wrote: "JR North" wrote in message ... As The Wrench Turns... Got the heads off; and posted some pics on the metalworking Dropbox at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/ See valve.jpg 3 pics No damage to the cylinder wall or head, and just a couple minor dings on the piston crown. Lucky me. JR HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- That's a lot of rust on that head. Other one look like that? That's what I thought......certainly makes think about whether this is common with I/O's. Never owned one, so I don't know. I believe he said he fogged it, didn't he? Not the ones I see. But then I'm in "trailer boating in lakes" land here in Raleigh. Might be sitting in a slip in salt water does it. There is going to be one or two cylinders sitting with the exhaust valve open when the engine is shut off just about everytime. If the boat sits in water then the humidity is going to remain high through the exhaust system so it will get high in the cylinder as well. It's not specific to an i/o though, any boat with an inboard marinized auto engine is going to be in the same situation. I would have expected the small amount of oil that gets past the valve stems to keep the valves from sticking though. The main issue specific to i/os in a slip is that the outdrive sits in the water. Most outboards can be raised enough to get the entire engine out of the water. Regular use would probably reduce the problem. And that might explain why commercial fishing boats run marinized auto engines for a long time without problems. The number one reason this happens is that folks try to extend the life of their exhaust systems beyond recommended limits. |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run
in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. JR jamesgangnc wrote: "JR North" wrote in message ... As The Wrench Turns... Got the heads off; and posted some pics on the metalworking Dropbox at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/ See valve.jpg 3 pics No damage to the cylinder wall or head, and just a couple minor dings on the piston crown. Lucky me. JR HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- That's a lot of rust on that head. Other one look like that? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Jul 25, 11:21*am, JR North wrote:
The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. JR That makes sense. So what's the plan? |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:01:33 -0700 (PDT), penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |On Jul 25, 11:21*am, JR North wrote: | The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run | in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve | also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. | JR | | | |That makes sense. So what's the plan? IMHO........................... Jasper...... -- Agent 5.00 Build 1159 Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
My machinist is going to go through the heads. He's great. I will hone
the cylinders also while the heads are off. Since I had to pull the FWC and P/S-Alt package to remove the left head, I yanked the water pump also for replacement, and am going to pull the balancer and timing cover. The cover is pretty rusty, so refinish there and new front seal. A lot of the fasteners on the engine were not SS, and very corroded, so a comprehensive replacement of all the steel fasteners also. I figure this scenario is fortuitous; a couple more years and most of those fasteners would have just snapped off. JR wrote: On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. JR That makes sense. So what's the plan? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message .com... On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:01:33 -0700 (PDT), penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: | The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run | in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve | also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. | JR | | | |That makes sense. So what's the plan? IMHO........................... Jasper...... Same opinion here. If you fix this block, the next thing that will happen is one of the side plugs, buried down where you can't get at it will let go and you'll be back to square one. (assuming it's raw water cooled). Don't bother asking how I know. Eisboch |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message .com... On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:01:33 -0700 (PDT), penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: | The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run | in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve | also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. | JR | | | |That makes sense. So what's the plan? IMHO........................... Jasper...... Or any machine shop that does truck engines. They pick up old heads from a junkyard and rebuild them. They won't accept marine heads for cores. -- Agent 5.00 Build 1159 Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
jamesgangnc wrote:
wrote in message ... On Jul 25, 8:03 am, "jamesgangnc" wrote: "JR North" wrote in message . .. As The Wrench Turns... Got the heads off; and posted some pics on the metalworking Dropbox at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/ See valve.jpg 3 pics No damage to the cylinder wall or head, and just a couple minor dings on the piston crown. Lucky me. JR HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- That's a lot of rust on that head. Other one look like that? That's what I thought......certainly makes think about whether this is common with I/O's. Never owned one, so I don't know. I believe he said he fogged it, didn't he? Not the ones I see. But then I'm in "trailer boating in lakes" land here in Raleigh. Might be sitting in a slip in salt water does it. There is going to be one or two cylinders sitting with the exhaust valve open when the engine is shut off just about everytime. If the boat sits in water then the humidity is going to remain high through the exhaust system so it will get high in the cylinder as well. It's not specific to an i/o though, any boat with an inboard marinized auto engine is going to be in the same situation. I would have expected the small amount of oil that gets past the valve stems to keep the valves from sticking though. The main issue specific to i/os in a slip is that the outdrive sits in the water. Most outboards can be raised enough to get the entire engine out of the water. Regular use would probably reduce the problem. And that might explain why commercial fishing boats run marinized auto engines for a long time without problems. I concur, the salt isn't the problem. Mine is slipped in the Salt and when I rebuilt the engine there was no internal rust. There is a lot of surface rust that you need to stay ahead of. Even if you can't take it out, running the engine weekly if it sits in the salt helps. My boat goes out fishing 1-2 times per week 44 weeks per year given decent weather. With a valve frozen and that amount of rust I would want to look at the oil pump and passageways. When the valve cover was open, did there apprear to be oil on the rocker arms? Sandpounder 24' Skipjack FB |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:14:36 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote: On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:01:33 -0700 (PDT), penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |On Jul 25, 11:21?am, JR North wrote: | The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run | in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve | also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. | JR | | | |That makes sense. So what's the plan? IMHO........................... Jasper...... Just one data point. Had a Jasper rebuilt 350 develop a rod knock with only about 25k miles on it. I'd go with a factory crate. IMHO. --Vic |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Jul 25, 12:57*pm, Vic Smith
wrote: On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:14:36 -0400, Gene Kearns wrote: On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:01:33 -0700 (PDT), penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |On Jul 25, 11:21?am, JR North wrote: | The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run | in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve | also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. | JR | | | |That makes sense. *So what's the plan? IMHO........................... Jasper...... Just one data point. *Had a Jasper rebuilt 350 develop a rod knock with only about 25k miles on it. I'd go with a factory crate. *IMHO. --Vic I'd pull the valves on the two cyclinders with the rust, clean them up and lap in a new exhaust valve. Stick it back together and run it until something else goes. It'll only cost a hundred or so for gaskets and a valve. The engine had good compression so it could go another 500 hours. The valve problem is from going too long with a bad exhaust. Not an engine problem. |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
Besides which, they are wrong.
JR JimH wrote: On Jul 25, 4:01 pm, JR North wrote: It's FWC, boys and girls. There is no way I would ever run salt water through an engine- it's a dead end proposition. JR JR North wrote: As The Wrench Turns... Got the heads off; and posted some pics on the metalworking Dropbox at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/ See valve.jpg 3 pics No damage to the cylinder wall or head, and just a couple minor dings on the piston crown. Lucky me. JR HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page:http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth Sorry about your problems with the boat. Glad to read that you got things sorted out and have been given some solid advice. Ignore the folks who were quick to jump on you for not fogging the engine when in storage..............that same group constantly sees the glass as only half full and are fast to find fault with the way folks live their lives or maintain their boats. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
So you're removing the block as well?
"JR North" wrote in message ... My machinist is going to go through the heads. He's great. I will hone the cylinders also while the heads are off. Since I had to pull the FWC and P/S-Alt package to remove the left head, I yanked the water pump also for replacement, and am going to pull the balancer and timing cover. The cover is pretty rusty, so refinish there and new front seal. A lot of the fasteners on the engine were not SS, and very corroded, so a comprehensive replacement of all the steel fasteners also. I figure this scenario is fortuitous; a couple more years and most of those fasteners would have just snapped off. JR wrote: On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. JR That makes sense. So what's the plan? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
Nope. Just top end o/haul. I expect you ask because I said 'hone the
cylinders'? I use a ball-type hone to break the glaze only. Not to actually try to straighten and refinish the bore. The glaze-break hone in-situ reseats the rings, provides additional texture for oil retention on the cylinder wall. JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:49:26 -0400, "jamesgangnc" wrote: So you're removing the block as well? "JR North" wrote in message ... My machinist is going to go through the heads. He's great. I will hone the cylinders also while the heads are off. Since I had to pull the FWC and P/S-Alt package to remove the left head, I yanked the water pump also for replacement, and am going to pull the balancer and timing cover. The cover is pretty rusty, so refinish there and new front seal. A lot of the fasteners on the engine were not SS, and very corroded, so a comprehensive replacement of all the steel fasteners also. I figure this scenario is fortuitous; a couple more years and most of those fasteners would have just snapped off. JR wrote: On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. JR That makes sense. So what's the plan? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Jul 25, 10:57*pm, JR North wrote:
Nope. Just top end o/haul. I expect you ask because I said 'hone the cylinders'? I use a ball-type hone to break the glaze only. Not to actually try to straighten and refinish the bore. The glaze-break hone in-situ reseats the rings, provides additional texture for oil retention on the cylinder wall. JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:49:26 -0400, "jamesgangnc" wrote: So you're removing the block as well? "JR North" wrote in message ... My machinist is going to go through the heads. He's great. I will hone the cylinders also while the heads are off. Since I had to pull the FWC and P/S-Alt package to remove the left head, I yanked the water pump also for replacement, and am going to pull the balancer and timing cover. The cover is pretty rusty, so refinish there and new front seal. A lot of the fasteners on the engine were not SS, and very corroded, so a comprehensive replacement of all the steel fasteners also. I figure this scenario is fortuitous; a couple more years and most of those fasteners would have just snapped off. JR wrote: On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. JR That makes sense. *So what's the plan? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- * * * *Home Page:http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth HOME PAGE:http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth --------------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Not sure I'd be comfortable with that. Never heard of anyone homing a cylinder with the piston still in. Honing is primarily to create a surface for new rings to break in against. You are not replacing the rings and you do not have compression problems. Honing also produces a great deal of metal dust that is very difficult to remove if the piston is in the way. A lot of it is going to get trapped in the gap between the piston and the cylinder walls. If you want to hone the cylinders you need to remove the block and the pistons and also replace the rings. |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
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Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Jul 28, 12:53*pm, Vic Smith
wrote: On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:15:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Not sure I'd be comfortable with that. *Never heard of anyone homing a cylinder with the piston still in. *Honing is primarily to create a surface for new rings to break in against. *You are not replacing the rings and you do not have compression problems. *Honing also produces a great deal of metal dust that is very difficult to remove if the piston is in the way. *A lot of it is going to get trapped in the gap between the piston and the cylinder walls. *If you want to hone the cylinders you need to remove the block and the pistons and also replace the rings. The last bottom end I did (352) also needed ridge reaming, but it had a lot more time (miles) on it. *That leaves substantial shavings. I didn't notice metal from doing the crosshatching, but the hone leaves grit, which is no better. A good blasting with compressed air around the gap should blow it out. --Vic Sorry, I'm still thinking that honing a cylinder with the piston in is not a good idea. |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
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Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
OK Jamesgangnc-you switched to Gmail which I filter out entirely.
Honing in-situ is something I've done dozens of times, with 100% success.. I tuck an oiled string around the piston gap, which prevents debris from getting down the gap into the #1 ring gland. Also, a thourogh wipe with a solvent rag until clean on the bore. Note you can only do this with a Flex Hone (ball type). JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:57:11 -0700, JR North wrote: Nope. Just top end o/haul. I expect you ask because I said 'hone the cylinders'? I use a ball-type hone to break the glaze only. Not to actually try to straighten and refinish the bore. The glaze-break hone in-situ reseats the rings, provides additional texture for oil retention on the cylinder wall. JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:49:26 -0400, "jamesgangnc" wrote: So you're removing the block as well? "JR North" wrote in message ... My machinist is going to go through the heads. He's great. I will hone the cylinders also while the heads are off. Since I had to pull the FWC and P/S-Alt package to remove the left head, I yanked the water pump also for replacement, and am going to pull the balancer and timing cover. The cover is pretty rusty, so refinish there and new front seal. A lot of the fasteners on the engine were not SS, and very corroded, so a comprehensive replacement of all the steel fasteners also. I figure this scenario is fortuitous; a couple more years and most of those fasteners would have just snapped off. JR wrote: On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. JR That makes sense. So what's the plan? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Jul 28, 10:27*pm, JR North wrote:
OK Jamesgangnc-you switched to Gmail which I filter out entirely. Honing in-situ is something I've done dozens of times, with 100% success.. I tuck an oiled string around the piston gap, which prevents debris from getting down the gap into the #1 ring gland. Also, a thourogh wipe with a solvent rag until clean on the bore. Note you can only do this with a Flex Hone (ball type). JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:57:11 -0700, JR North wrote: Nope. Just top end o/haul. I expect you ask because I said 'hone the cylinders'? I use a ball-type hone to break the glaze only. Not to actually try to straighten and refinish the bore. The glaze-break hone in-situ reseats the rings, provides additional texture for oil retention on the cylinder wall. JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:49:26 -0400, "jamesgangnc" wrote: So you're removing the block as well? "JR North" wrote in message ... My machinist is going to go through the heads. He's great. I will hone the cylinders also while the heads are off. Since I had to pull the FWC and P/S-Alt package to remove the left head, I yanked the water pump also for replacement, and am going to pull the balancer and timing cover. The cover is pretty rusty, so refinish there and new front seal. A lot of the fasteners on the engine were not SS, and very corroded, so a comprehensive replacement of all the steel fasteners also. I figure this scenario is fortuitous; a couple more years and most of those fasteners would have just snapped off. JR wrote: On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left.. JR That makes sense. *So what's the plan? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- * * * *Home Page:http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- HOME PAGE:http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth --------------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I use gmail too, so I switched over to AOL acct, for this thread. I see what you're doing and although it might be the most aproved method, it's still good. Especially if pulling the block and total dismantlement is prohibitive. i think you're on the right track. (now back to g-mail) ?: |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
Be that as it may, I worked for 6 years in fleet shop servicing over 2000
vehicles and no one ever honed a cylinder with the pistons still in. Nor did I ever hear of anyone doing it at any dealerships or other shops. "JR North" wrote in message ... OK Jamesgangnc-you switched to Gmail which I filter out entirely. Honing in-situ is something I've done dozens of times, with 100% success.. I tuck an oiled string around the piston gap, which prevents debris from getting down the gap into the #1 ring gland. Also, a thourogh wipe with a solvent rag until clean on the bore. Note you can only do this with a Flex Hone (ball type). JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:57:11 -0700, JR North wrote: Nope. Just top end o/haul. I expect you ask because I said 'hone the cylinders'? I use a ball-type hone to break the glaze only. Not to actually try to straighten and refinish the bore. The glaze-break hone in-situ reseats the rings, provides additional texture for oil retention on the cylinder wall. JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:49:26 -0400, "jamesgangnc" wrote: So you're removing the block as well? "JR North" wrote in message ... My machinist is going to go through the heads. He's great. I will hone the cylinders also while the heads are off. Since I had to pull the FWC and P/S-Alt package to remove the left head, I yanked the water pump also for replacement, and am going to pull the balancer and timing cover. The cover is pretty rusty, so refinish there and new front seal. A lot of the fasteners on the engine were not SS, and very corroded, so a comprehensive replacement of all the steel fasteners also. I figure this scenario is fortuitous; a couple more years and most of those fasteners would have just snapped off. JR wrote: On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. JR That makes sense. So what's the plan? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Jul 29, 9:38*am, "jamesgangnc" wrote:
Be that as it may, I worked for 6 years in fleet shop servicing over 2000 vehicles and no one ever honed a cylinder with the pistons still in. *Nor did I ever hear of anyone doing it at any dealerships or other shops. "JR North" wrote in message ... OK Jamesgangnc-you switched to Gmail which I filter out entirely. Honing in-situ is something I've done dozens of times, with 100% success.. I tuck an oiled string around the piston gap, which prevents debris from getting down the gap into the #1 ring gland. Also, a thourogh wipe with a solvent rag until clean on the bore. Note you can only do this with a Flex Hone (ball type). JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:57:11 -0700, JR North wrote: Nope. Just top end o/haul. I expect you ask because I said 'hone the cylinders'? I use a ball-type hone to break the glaze only. Not to actually try to straighten and refinish the bore. The glaze-break hone in-situ reseats the rings, provides additional texture for oil retention on the cylinder wall. JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:49:26 -0400, "jamesgangnc" wrote: So you're removing the block as well? "JR North" wrote in message ... My machinist is going to go through the heads. He's great. I will hone the cylinders also while the heads are off. Since I had to pull the FWC and P/S-Alt package to remove the left head, I yanked the water pump also for replacement, and am going to pull the balancer and timing cover. The cover is pretty rusty, so refinish there and new front seal. A lot of the fasteners on the engine were not SS, and very corroded, so a comprehensive replacement of all the steel fasteners also. I figure this scenario is fortuitous; a couple more years and most of those fasteners would have just snapped off. JR wrote: On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Jul 29, 9:03*am, wrote:
On Jul 29, 9:38*am, "jamesgangnc" wrote: Be that as it may, I worked for 6 years in fleet shop servicing over 2000 vehicles and no one ever honed a cylinder with the pistons still in. *Nor did I ever hear of anyone doing it at any dealerships or other shops. "JR North" wrote in message .. . OK Jamesgangnc-you switched to Gmail which I filter out entirely. Honing in-situ is something I've done dozens of times, with 100% success.. I tuck an oiled string around the piston gap, which prevents debris from getting down the gap into the #1 ring gland. Also, a thourogh wipe with a solvent rag until clean on the bore. Note you can only do this with a Flex Hone (ball type). JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:57:11 -0700, JR North wrote: Nope. Just top end o/haul. I expect you ask because I said 'hone the cylinders'? I use a ball-type hone to break the glaze only. Not to actually try to straighten and refinish the bore. The glaze-break hone in-situ reseats the rings, provides additional texture for oil retention on the cylinder wall. JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:49:26 -0400, "jamesgangnc" wrote: So you're removing the block as well? "JR North" wrote in message ... My machinist is going to go through the heads. He's great. I will hone the cylinders also while the heads are off. Since I had to pull the FWC and P/S-Alt package to remove the left head, I yanked the water pump also for replacement, and am going to pull the balancer and timing cover. The cover is pretty rusty, so refinish there and new front seal. A lot of the fasteners on the engine were not SS, and very corroded, so a comprehensive replacement of all the steel fasteners also. I figure this scenario is fortuitous; a couple more years and most of those fasteners would have just snapped off. JR wrote: On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. JR That makes sense. *So what's the plan? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- * * * *Home Page:http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth --------------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know I wouldn't!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know I wouldnt' either, but he opted not to pull the block so I'd say he's got a good secondary idea, here. Even so, he's already stated that this is a high hr engine and doesn't expect to get a great amount of life out of it. But granted that honing the cylinders arn't going to really provide much to compensate the worn rings. Actually the honing might promote premature compression failure and/or accelerated oil usage. Again guys, it's not our engines and if he has some success, them more power to him.... |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Jul 29, 12:27*pm, Tim wrote:
On Jul 29, 9:03*am, wrote: On Jul 29, 9:38*am, "jamesgangnc" wrote: Be that as it may, I worked for 6 years in fleet shop servicing over 2000 vehicles and no one ever honed a cylinder with the pistons still in. *Nor did I ever hear of anyone doing it at any dealerships or other shops. "JR North" wrote in message .. . OK Jamesgangnc-you switched to Gmail which I filter out entirely. Honing in-situ is something I've done dozens of times, with 100% success.. I tuck an oiled string around the piston gap, which prevents debris from getting down the gap into the #1 ring gland. Also, a thourogh wipe with a solvent rag until clean on the bore. Note you can only do this with a Flex Hone (ball type). JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:57:11 -0700, JR North wrote: Nope. Just top end o/haul. I expect you ask because I said 'hone the cylinders'? I use a ball-type hone to break the glaze only. Not to actually try to straighten and refinish the bore. The glaze-break hone in-situ reseats the rings, provides additional texture for oil retention on the cylinder wall. JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:49:26 -0400, "jamesgangnc" wrote: So you're removing the block as well? "JR North" wrote in message ... My machinist is going to go through the heads. He's great. I will hone the cylinders also while the heads are off. Since I had to pull the FWC and P/S-Alt package to remove the left head, I yanked the water pump also for replacement, and am going to pull the balancer and timing cover. The cover is pretty rusty, so refinish there and new front seal. A lot of the fasteners on the engine were not SS, and very corroded, so a comprehensive replacement of all the steel fasteners also. I figure this scenario is fortuitous; a couple more years and most of those fasteners would have just snapped off. JR wrote: On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. JR That makes sense. *So what's the plan? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- * * * *Home Page:http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth --------------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know I wouldn't!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know I wouldnt' either, but he opted not to pull the block so I'd say he's got a good secondary idea, here. Even so, he's already stated that this is a high hr engine and doesn't expect to get a great amount of life out of it. But granted that honing the cylinders arn't going to really provide much to compensate the worn rings. Actually the honing might promote premature compression failure and/or accelerated oil usage. Again guys, it's not our engines and if he has some success, them more power to him....- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Agreed, he can do anything he wants to it. Not agreed that it is a good idea. Any evidence is antidotal as to the success. Just because the engine still worked is not evidence of success. There is no reason to expect it to improve the engine's life expectancy and all sorts of reason to think it will cause the opposite. |
Autopsy Report on Cruis'n Rulz!
On Jul 29, 11:35*am, wrote:
On Jul 29, 12:27*pm, Tim wrote: On Jul 29, 9:03*am, wrote: On Jul 29, 9:38*am, "jamesgangnc" wrote: Be that as it may, I worked for 6 years in fleet shop servicing over 2000 vehicles and no one ever honed a cylinder with the pistons still in.. *Nor did I ever hear of anyone doing it at any dealerships or other shops. "JR North" wrote in message .. . OK Jamesgangnc-you switched to Gmail which I filter out entirely. Honing in-situ is something I've done dozens of times, with 100% success.. I tuck an oiled string around the piston gap, which prevents debris from getting down the gap into the #1 ring gland. Also, a thourogh wipe with a solvent rag until clean on the bore. Note you can only do this with a Flex Hone (ball type). JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:57:11 -0700, JR North wrote: Nope. Just top end o/haul. I expect you ask because I said 'hone the cylinders'? I use a ball-type hone to break the glaze only. Not to actually try to straighten and refinish the bore. The glaze-break hone in-situ reseats the rings, provides additional texture for oil retention on the cylinder wall. JR On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:49:26 -0400, "jamesgangnc" wrote: So you're removing the block as well? "JR North" wrote in message ... My machinist is going to go through the heads. He's great. I will hone the cylinders also while the heads are off. Since I had to pull the FWC and P/S-Alt package to remove the left head, I yanked the water pump also for replacement, and am going to pull the balancer and timing cover. The cover is pretty rusty, so refinish there and new front seal. A lot of the fasteners on the engine were not SS, and very corroded, so a comprehensive replacement of all the steel fasteners also. I figure this scenario is fortuitous; a couple more years and most of those fasteners would have just snapped off. JR wrote: On Jul 25, 11:21 am, JR North wrote: The result of the failed right bank manifold, allowing sea water to run in the exhaust port into the cylinder. That's what seized the valve also. Only 2 cylinders show rust on the right bank, none on the left. JR That makes sense. *So what's the plan? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- * * * *Home Page:http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth --------------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know I wouldn't!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know I wouldnt' either, but he opted not to pull the block so I'd say he's got a good secondary idea, here. Even so, he's already stated that this is a high hr engine and doesn't expect to get a great amount of life out of it. But granted that honing the cylinders arn't going to really provide much to compensate the worn rings. Actually the honing might promote premature compression failure and/or accelerated oil usage. Again guys, it's not our engines and if he has some success, them more power to him....- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Agreed, he can do anything he wants to it. *Not agreed that it is a good idea. *Any evidence is antidotal as to the success. *Just because the engine still worked is not evidence of success. *There is no reason to expect it to improve the engine's life expectancy and all sorts of reason to think it will cause the opposite.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - My thoughts exactly. But, i wasn't going to say that... ?;^ ) |
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