Engine trouble
 

Hi, I have a 75HP, 1992, 3 pistons/2 strokes Mariner engine that
started to give me trouble yesterday. While a was pulling a tube, the
engine suddenly lost power and even at WOT, would not go over 2,600
RPM (while pulling the tube).

I tried the boat alone and even at WOT, the RPM would slowly increase
up to 3,200 and then jolted to 4,000 and then I had to pull the
throttle so it wouldn't go over 5,000 RPM (ie, from 4,000 and 5,000,
the engine was behaving normally). Below 3,200 RPM, the engine noise
is 'deep' and rough.

I had my wife driving the boat while I was watching the engine for any
physical anomaly and couldn't see any. There was no sudden linkage
movement between 3,200 and 4,000 RPM. The butterflies were fully
opened with the throttle at WOT.

The only two things I can think of (and that's just guesses) is there
are two sets of injectors and one kicks in at 3,200 or there is a
second sets of butterflies that opens at 3,200 (but I didn't see any).

I had the injectors cleaned last fall and the engine was running
smoothly until this happened.

Anybody knows what could make the engine behave that way? Or if you
know a better newsgroup/forum to post my question, I'm all ear.

Thanks!

Engine trouble
 

wrote in message
...
Hi, I have a 75HP, 1992, 3 pistons/2 strokes Mariner engine that
started to give me trouble yesterday. While a was pulling a tube, the
engine suddenly lost power and even at WOT, would not go over 2,600
RPM (while pulling the tube).

I tried the boat alone and even at WOT, the RPM would slowly increase
up to 3,200 and then jolted to 4,000 and then I had to pull the
throttle so it wouldn't go over 5,000 RPM (ie, from 4,000 and 5,000,
the engine was behaving normally). Below 3,200 RPM, the engine noise
is 'deep' and rough.

I had my wife driving the boat while I was watching the engine for any
physical anomaly and couldn't see any. There was no sudden linkage
movement between 3,200 and 4,000 RPM. The butterflies were fully
opened with the throttle at WOT.

The only two things I can think of (and that's just guesses) is there
are two sets of injectors and one kicks in at 3,200 or there is a
second sets of butterflies that opens at 3,200 (but I didn't see any).

I had the injectors cleaned last fall and the engine was running
smoothly until this happened.

Anybody knows what could make the engine behave that way? Or if you
know a better newsgroup/forum to post my question, I'm all ear.

Thanks!

Over temp possible. Maybe low oil in the tank.

Engine trouble
 

On Jun 22, 10:47 pm, "CalifBill" wrote:
wrote in message

...



Hi, I have a 75HP, 1992, 3 pistons/2 strokes Mariner engine that
started to give me trouble yesterday. While a was pulling a tube, the
engine suddenly lost power and even at WOT, would not go over 2,600
RPM (while pulling the tube).

I tried the boat alone and even at WOT, the RPM would slowly increase
up to 3,200 and then jolted to 4,000 and then I had to pull the
throttle so it wouldn't go over 5,000 RPM (ie, from 4,000 and 5,000,
the engine was behaving normally). Below 3,200 RPM, the engine noise
is 'deep' and rough.

I had my wife driving the boat while I was watching the engine for any
physical anomaly and couldn't see any. There was no sudden linkage
movement between 3,200 and 4,000 RPM. The butterflies were fully
opened with the throttle at WOT.

The only two things I can think of (and that's just guesses) is there
are two sets of injectors and one kicks in at 3,200 or there is a
second sets of butterflies that opens at 3,200 (but I didn't see any).

I had the injectors cleaned last fall and the engine was running
smoothly until this happened.

Anybody knows what could make the engine behave that way? Or if you
know a better newsgroup/forum to post my question, I'm all ear.

Thanks!

Over temp possible. Maybe low oil in the tank.

Thanks for the very quick reply :-)

However, I tried the engine the next morning while the engine was cool
and it did the same thing. The oil reservoir is about half full.

Engine trouble
 

Engine trouble
 

I think you got the wrong group. This one is alt.loogy.bull****
off-topic.

Engine trouble
 

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:30:16 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Anybody knows what could make the engine behave that way?

If the VRO has been acting up, you could have fouled plugs, the carbs
might need cleaning, could be a soft power pack - there are any number
of possibilities with that type of RPM range.

I would suspect either plugs or something along the lines of a power
pack.

Engine trouble
 

On Jun 23, 12:23*am, Larry wrote:
wrote in news:75891839-5d1f-46f6-aa2c-df6033521575
@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

I had the injectors cleaned last fall and the engine was running
smoothly until this happened.

A '92 Mariner has injectors, not carbs??

Does it have a PRIMER BULB?

Primer bulb on the fuel line? Yes I have one. Now that I think about
it, it has oil injector but probably carburetor...

Engine trouble
 

On Jun 23, 12:30*am, "Eat Me, Trolls" wrote:
I think you got the wrong group. This one is * * * alt.loogy.bull****
off-topic.

Like I said in my original post:

"Or if you know a better newsgroup/forum to post my question, I'm all
ear".

So? Do you have a better one?

Engine trouble
 

Engine trouble
 

On Jun 23, 6:31*am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:30:16 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Anybody knows what could make the engine behave that way?

If the VRO has been acting up, you could have fouled plugs, the carbs
might need cleaning, could be a soft power pack - there are any number
of possibilities with that type of RPM range.

I would suspect either plugs or something along the lines of a power
pack.

I'll check the plugs but at idle, the engine runs fine. I would think
a foul plug would show its color more at low RPM.

The transition is ALWAYS at 3,200 RPM. Once it reaches 3,200 RPM (on
the dot), it gets to 4,000 RPM within a fraction of a second (it feels
like a sport car taken off) as if it got the correct air/gas ratio
suddenly.

Engine trouble
 

Engine trouble
 

On Jun 23, 10:28*am, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Jun 23, 12:23 am, Larry wrote:
wrote in news:75891839-5d1f-46f6-aa2c-df6033521575
@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

I had the injectors cleaned last fall and the engine was running
smoothly until this happened.
A '92 Mariner has injectors, not carbs??

Does it have a PRIMER BULB?

Primer bulb on the fuel line? Yes I have one. Now that I think about
it, it has oil injector but probably carburetor...

Dirty carb or carb needing rebuilding. Dirty plugs. Fouled sensor
somewhere.

The carb got cleaned last Fall. Was rough a bit but since it was
cleaned and up until yesterday, it ran smooth. I'll check the plugs
next weekend.

A local shop told me to check if there is water in the gas tank. Since
it's an inboard tank, it's not easy to check so I'll use a external
5gal tank (and clean fuel) and see if it runs fine.

Engine trouble
 

On Jun 23, 10:47*am, Larry wrote:
wrote in news:7bc30477-49a6-401e-81e2-
:

Primer bulb on the fuel line? Yes I have one. Now that I think about
it, it has oil injector but probably carburetor...

Ok, first we need to use the primer bulb to test the fuel system for
operation, clogged lines, stuck floats, ripped open rubber diaphram in
the chinzy-ass fuel pump:

Tilt the engine down to its operating position.

Pump the primer bulb until it gets so hard you can't pump it any more.
Keep that last squeeze on it to see if it slowly squeezes down. *You have
now pressurized the fuel system inside the engine, having filled the carb
floats until the float valves shut off the flow. *The pressure from your
priming has also showed us there are no leaks because the bulb won't pump
up hard if there are, it'll slowly squeeze and gas will run out
"somewhere", even places you can't see. *We've also learned the diaphram
in the cheap pulse fuel pump doesn't have a rip or hole in it because if
it did you'd be pumping gas through the hole into one of the cylinder's
crankcase, flooding it with gas and the bulb will NEVER get hard that
way.

Now, IF you pumped that first pump or two and the bulb stayed flat and
refused to refill from the tank, you either have a clogged strainer
inside the tank...or you forgot to turn on the fuel tank exit valve....or
you have a clogged external fuel filter if it exists. *You need to find
out why the bulb can't pump gas freely as it's clogged up. *Isn't this
easy?!

Ok, we pumped the bulb at the dock until it got hard. *It stayed hard
even though we continued to squeeze it on that last squeeze when it got
hard and didn't notice it slowly bleeding off our last squeeze. *That all
went well, let's go to sea trials.....more testing with this little bulb!

Ok, now we need to WATCH the primer bulb before and after the engine runs
like crap. *We've primed the engine, already during the initial static
testing phase. *Crank 'er up and let it idle at the dock.

If it idles like crap and we've already primed it, the low speed jets are
probably clogged or we have an ignition problem. *That's about all there
is to a 2-stroke engine.

Let's say it idles fine, well, as fine as a 2-stroke ever idles. *Idle
out past the boats and docks into open water and have someone ELSE keep
an eye on the bulb. *Don't pump it....yet.

If the bulb starts to collapse on its own at any time, OPEN THE GAS CAP A
CRACK and see if it fills back out....the fuel tank vent is clogged if it
fills back out! *Damned dirt daubers! *Clear the vent, close the gas cap
and try again to see if you got all the mud out of it the wasps put in.

Ok, still watching the bulb for any signs of collapse, out in open water,
start running the throttle up and onto plane, normally not all at once. *
If the bulb starts to collapse at any point, open the gas cap again and
see if it refills out again. *The vent is ALMOST clogged if that works.

Ok, we're on plane and watching the bulb. *The bulb didn't collapse but
the engine started running like crap. *Start to pump the bulb while the
engine is running like crap. *If the engine smooths back out and picks up
speed, keep pumping the bulb until we get back to the dock. *The fuel
pump pulse line hose has a hole in it, has fallen off or is partially
clogged so the crankcase gasses pumping the little diaphram in and out
aren't pumping the little diaphram in and out. *The diaphram was fine in
our static test, but the pulse line that pulses the diaphram is blocked
or leaking too bad to pump it....we ran outa gas in the carbs....

You'd be amazed at the number of boats who asked me to tow them were just
so amazed when I told them to try that last paragraph so they could get
back to the trailer...(c; *Panicky people aren't too diagnostic of
problems.

Ok, we pumped the bulb and it didn't change the way the engine was
running at all...it still runs like crap. *Two possiblities, now, clogged
high speed jets because you put the toys away WITHOUT draining the carbs
by unplugging the motor at the dock and letting it run until it died from
lack of gas.....or ignition problems, probably caused by the cheap-assed
stator under the flywheel being all rusted up because it would have cost
Mariner (or any of them) another dollar to PAINT the iron core that's
shorting out....damn them all. *Take it to the shop and tell them exactly
what you did from my post to help them find the problem.

I'm already assuming you can see water pouring out of the ****er and you
see water sputtering out of the exhaust relief letting us know the
thermostats have opened and it's not overheating...right?

It could still have a leaky head gasket or cracked rings but I don't
suppose you have a cylinder pressure guage to test it or you wouldn't
have posted what you posted.

----------------------------------------------------------

The look on a boater's face when I tell him to open the gas cap a crack,
or the fuel valve he forgot to open, and the engine smooths out in 15
seconds, having watched his bulb collapse..........PRICELESS!...(C;

I've printed your message and I'll give a go next weekend. Thanks.

Engine trouble
 

Engine trouble
 

Engine trouble
 

Engine trouble
 

HK wrote in
:



Stuck reeds? Jumped timing (sheared flywheel key, maybe?)


Naw...It won't idle with the reeds stuck even a little open because it'll
breathe back through the carb blowing gas out the intake.

If the timing's jumped, it won't idle worth a crap, either.

Engine trouble
 

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:47:38 +0000, Larry wrote:

wrote in news:7bc30477-49a6-401e-81e2-
:

Primer bulb on the fuel line? Yes I have one. Now that I think about
it, it has oil injector but probably carburetor...



Ok, first we need to use the primer bulb to test the fuel system for
operation, clogged lines, stuck floats, ripped open rubber diaphram in
the chinzy-ass fuel pump:

Tilt the engine down to its operating position.

Pump the primer bulb until it gets so hard you can't pump it any more.
Keep that last squeeze on it to see if it slowly squeezes down. You have
now pressurized the fuel system inside the engine, having filled the carb
floats until the float valves shut off the flow. The pressure from your
priming has also showed us there are no leaks because the bulb won't pump
up hard if there are, it'll slowly squeeze and gas will run out
"somewhere", even places you can't see. We've also learned the diaphram
in the cheap pulse fuel pump doesn't have a rip or hole in it because if
it did you'd be pumping gas through the hole into one of the cylinder's
crankcase, flooding it with gas and the bulb will NEVER get hard that
way.

Now, IF you pumped that first pump or two and the bulb stayed flat and
refused to refill from the tank, you either have a clogged strainer
inside the tank...or you forgot to turn on the fuel tank exit valve....or
you have a clogged external fuel filter if it exists. You need to find
out why the bulb can't pump gas freely as it's clogged up. Isn't this
easy?!

Ok, we pumped the bulb at the dock until it got hard. It stayed hard
even though we continued to squeeze it on that last squeeze when it got
hard and didn't notice it slowly bleeding off our last squeeze. That all
went well, let's go to sea trials.....more testing with this little bulb!

Ok, now we need to WATCH the primer bulb before and after the engine runs
like crap. We've primed the engine, already during the initial static
testing phase. Crank 'er up and let it idle at the dock.

If it idles like crap and we've already primed it, the low speed jets are
probably clogged or we have an ignition problem. That's about all there
is to a 2-stroke engine.

Let's say it idles fine, well, as fine as a 2-stroke ever idles. Idle
out past the boats and docks into open water and have someone ELSE keep
an eye on the bulb. Don't pump it....yet.

If the bulb starts to collapse on its own at any time, OPEN THE GAS CAP A
CRACK and see if it fills back out....the fuel tank vent is clogged if it
fills back out! Damned dirt daubers! Clear the vent, close the gas cap
and try again to see if you got all the mud out of it the wasps put in.

Ok, still watching the bulb for any signs of collapse, out in open water,
start running the throttle up and onto plane, normally not all at once.
If the bulb starts to collapse at any point, open the gas cap again and
see if it refills out again. The vent is ALMOST clogged if that works.

Ok, we're on plane and watching the bulb. The bulb didn't collapse but
the engine started running like crap. Start to pump the bulb while the
engine is running like crap. If the engine smooths back out and picks up
speed, keep pumping the bulb until we get back to the dock. The fuel
pump pulse line hose has a hole in it, has fallen off or is partially
clogged so the crankcase gasses pumping the little diaphram in and out
aren't pumping the little diaphram in and out. The diaphram was fine in
our static test, but the pulse line that pulses the diaphram is blocked
or leaking too bad to pump it....we ran outa gas in the carbs....

You'd be amazed at the number of boats who asked me to tow them were just
so amazed when I told them to try that last paragraph so they could get
back to the trailer...(c; Panicky people aren't too diagnostic of
problems.

Ok, we pumped the bulb and it didn't change the way the engine was
running at all...it still runs like crap. Two possiblities, now, clogged
high speed jets because you put the toys away WITHOUT draining the carbs
by unplugging the motor at the dock and letting it run until it died from
lack of gas.....or ignition problems, probably caused by the cheap-assed
stator under the flywheel being all rusted up because it would have cost
Mariner (or any of them) another dollar to PAINT the iron core that's
shorting out....damn them all. Take it to the shop and tell them exactly
what you did from my post to help them find the problem.

I'm already assuming you can see water pouring out of the ****er and you
see water sputtering out of the exhaust relief letting us know the
thermostats have opened and it's not overheating...right?

It could still have a leaky head gasket or cracked rings but I don't
suppose you have a cylinder pressure guage to test it or you wouldn't
have posted what you posted.

----------------------------------------------------------

The look on a boater's face when I tell him to open the gas cap a crack,
or the fuel valve he forgot to open, and the engine smooths out in 15
seconds, having watched his bulb collapse..........PRICELESS!...(C;

Larry, it wasn't my problem, but you sure gave a splendid answer. I learned
something new. Thank you!
--
John *H*

Engine trouble
 

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:47:38 +0000, Larry wrote:

The look on a boater's face when I tell him to open the gas cap a crack,
or the fuel valve he forgot to open, and the engine smooths out in 15
seconds, having watched his bulb collapse..........PRICELESS!..

One more advantage of direct injection two stroke engines - no primer
bulb.

Primer bulb - pfffhhhtt - ancient tech.

Engine trouble
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:47:38 +0000, Larry wrote:

The look on a boater's face when I tell him to open the gas cap a crack,
or the fuel valve he forgot to open, and the engine smooths out in 15
seconds, having watched his bulb collapse..........PRICELESS!..

One more advantage of direct injection two stroke engines - no primer
bulb.

Primer bulb - pfffhhhtt - ancient tech.


I understand your eTech runs on water vapors and pumps wine out the pee-er.

BTW, in the years I have owned two Yamaha four strokes I never once have
touched the primer bulb.

Engine trouble
 

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:45:22 -0400, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:47:38 +0000, Larry wrote:

The look on a boater's face when I tell him to open the gas cap a crack,
or the fuel valve he forgot to open, and the engine smooths out in 15
seconds, having watched his bulb collapse..........PRICELESS!..

One more advantage of direct injection two stroke engines - no primer
bulb.

Primer bulb - pfffhhhtt - ancient tech.

I understand your eTech runs on water vapors and pumps wine out the pee-er.

Not wine - bourbon.

BTW, in the years I have owned two Yamaha four strokes I never once have
touched the primer bulb.

Of course not.

Engine trouble
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:45:22 -0400, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:47:38 +0000, Larry wrote:

The look on a boater's face when I tell him to open the gas cap a crack,
or the fuel valve he forgot to open, and the engine smooths out in 15
seconds, having watched his bulb collapse..........PRICELESS!..
One more advantage of direct injection two stroke engines - no primer
bulb.

Primer bulb - pfffhhhtt - ancient tech.
I understand your eTech runs on water vapors and pumps wine out the pee-er.

Not wine - bourbon.

BTW, in the years I have owned two Yamaha four strokes I never once have
touched the primer bulb.

Of course not.

I kid you not. Never touched either of them. In fact, I didn't even know
where the current one was until I opened the bilge hatch this past week
to work the valve for the livewell. There it was...untouched.

Engine trouble
 

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:46:07 -0400, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:45:22 -0400, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:47:38 +0000, Larry wrote:

The look on a boater's face when I tell him to open the gas cap a crack,
or the fuel valve he forgot to open, and the engine smooths out in 15
seconds, having watched his bulb collapse..........PRICELESS!..
One more advantage of direct injection two stroke engines - no primer
bulb.

Primer bulb - pfffhhhtt - ancient tech.
I understand your eTech runs on water vapors and pumps wine out the pee-er.

Not wine - bourbon.

BTW, in the years I have owned two Yamaha four strokes I never once have
touched the primer bulb.

Of course not.

I kid you not. Never touched either of them. In fact, I didn't even know
where the current one was until I opened the bilge hatch this past week
to work the valve for the livewell. There it was...untouched.

I believe - I believe.

Honest...

Engine trouble
 

John H. wrote in
:

Larry, it wasn't my problem, but you sure gave a splendid answer. I
learned something new. Thank you!
--
John *H*



Quite welcome and comment much appreciated...thank you.

I put a bulb in my Mercury Sport Jet-powered Sea Rayder even though it has
an electric primer pump. It's just too good a quick fuel system
troubleshooting device not to!

Engine trouble
 

On Jun 23, 4:27*pm, Larry wrote:
wrote in news:718bdca1-6c67-4451-9150-
:

A local shop told me to check if there is water in the gas tank. Since
it's an inboard tank, it's not easy to check so I'll use a external
5gal tank (and clean fuel) and see if it runs fine.

Stop by any auto parts store and buy a see-through fuel filter that has
the right sized hose fittings on it, same as the primer bulb. *Buy an
extra length of fuel hose that will run from the primer bulb to the gas
filler cap so we can use the bulb to pump gas from the bottom of the tank
through that filter back into the tank by hand to see what's in the fuel. *
Make sure you can lay the filter on its side so we can look under the
filter paper while pumping the bulb.

Disconnect the motor from the bulb (don't forget we need a new hose clamp
to put it back). *Connect a short piece of hose from the bulb to the
OUTSIDE-the-paper filter end of the see thru filter. *We're going to pump
gas from the OUTSIDE of the filter paper to the inside and back into the
tank so we can see what crap will collect on the outside of the paper.

From the INSIDE end of the filter, run the hose DEEPLY into the filler
cap so we don't make a lot of wasteful fumes trying to spray it in the
cap. *We don't need to see it going back in the tank because we can see
the filter.

Pump the bulb, the more the better, the faster the better....with theboatrocking at the dock sloshing the crap in the tank around is best! *
Put theboatin the water and tie it to a dock that has waves to slosh it
around for us free. *Do NOT let the outlet end of the filter be lower
than the inlet end. *We want water to show up in the filter if it's there
(which I'm betting it's not unless you left the gas tank NEARLY EMPTY all
winter. *You DID FILL THE TANK BEFORE STORAGE EVERY TIME, RIGHT?!! *Flog
yourself if you didn't for me! *Shame on you!

Full gas tanks cannot BREATHE in water vapor to collect on cold, bare
tank walls every night....ALWAYS leave the tanks stored FULL, but not
overflowing.....

I had to go to the cottage yesterday (got broken into but they caught
the *******s so I didn't lose much) and it gave me a chance to try to
the boat.

First I had to fix the throttle because the robbers were too dumb to
know to try another key in the key chain instead of breaking my gas
cap lock key in the ignition switch!

Back to the boat... Started it and it works fine, no hesitation at
all... What gives???

Oh yeah, while fixing the throttle, I removed the red cables from the
batteries and when I put it back (the big one, not the small one for
accessories) it created a spark! There was nothing on (no light, bilge
pump, well fan, etc). I followed the wire to the engine were it
connected to other red cables. I undid then and touched the main cable
one by one. The one that created a spark was the voltage regulator
one. I had it changed last year. Could it be a faulty one? Is it
supposed to drain the batteries like that? I doubt it though...

Thanks again!

Engine trouble
 

It did it again (no power at low rpm until 3,400 rpm) :-(

I noticed the engine would start with just either the top or center
cylinder plug connected but not the lower cylinder plug connected. I
swapped the lower cylinder plug with the top cylinder one and it still
wouldn't start with the lower cylinder only so I know if wasn't a foul
plug. I swapped the center and lower coil (and wires as well so the
timing was still ok )and same thing, the center plug was working with
the lower coil but not the lower plug with the center coil so again, I
deducted the coils are ok. Only one thing left... The electronic
module :-(

With my problem with the voltage regulator and the now the electronic
module, the boat is in the shop for a checkup :-(

Engine trouble
 

Engine trouble
 

On Jul 2, 7:35 pm, Larry wrote:
wrote in news:faae4fbf-1ea6-4c84-973a-ad94923186e7
@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

With my problem with the voltage regulator and the now the electronic
module, the boat is in the shop for a checkup :-(

Good idea....Towing is much more expensive than spark plugs and
coils....and ECMs.

Well, if the shop charges me an arm and a leg for a switchbox, lucky
for me, I found a web site that carries them

http://www.maxrules.com/fixmercelectric2.html#1147778

for just $180.