87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drains battery.
 

Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff.
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drains battery.
 

"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...
Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff.
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

Don't put 24V on a 12V circuit. You could blow anything or everything. Most
likely the bushings in your starter are worn. Make sure your wiring is in
good shape before you pull the starter, though.

87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drainsbattery.
 

fzbuilder wrote:
Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff.
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

I would guess a shot starter. Who the hell told you to hook 24 volts up
to a 12-volt system? That is wrong, wrong, wrong.

87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drainsbattery.
 

On Jun 19, 9:02*pm, fzbuilder wrote:
Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff.
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

Before you blow up something because of cheap advice go through a
common sense check list.

If you had a dead short, something would be getting really hot, really
quick!

If your'e geting spark thats fine. OK, now how about fuel? is the
carburator geting gas? Pull the spark arrester air cleaner off, and
manually work the throttle at the carburator as see if you're getting
a fuel spray in the carb. All the spark in the world wont start the
engine if you don't have fuel.

look the situation over. Did it start fine, then all of a sudden
develop a problem, or has it been gradually going down?

clean connections! battery terminals even check the negative cable
where it hooks to the engine block. If you crank the starter for a
moment, then feel your battery connections and find a hot one, you've
found the problem.

If anything else pull the starter and have a reputable mechanic or a
local auto electric shop test it out. Jim could be right about worn or
possible dry bushings.

Have you ever had the bildge full of water to the point where the
starter motor got wet? If so, it's probably corroded inside. If its a
direct drive delco starter it's not an expensive process to install
brushs and bushings in it..

But again, check ALL the engine electric connections first.

And leave the 24v stuff alone. There's no need for it.

87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drains battery.
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Jun 19, 9:02 pm, fzbuilder wrote:
Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff.
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

Before you blow up something because of cheap advice go through a
common sense check list.

If you had a dead short, something would be getting really hot, really
quick!

If your'e geting spark thats fine. OK, now how about fuel? is the
carburator geting gas? Pull the spark arrester air cleaner off, and
manually work the throttle at the carburator as see if you're getting
a fuel spray in the carb. All the spark in the world wont start the
engine if you don't have fuel.

look the situation over. Did it start fine, then all of a sudden
develop a problem, or has it been gradually going down?

clean connections! battery terminals even check the negative cable
where it hooks to the engine block. If you crank the starter for a
moment, then feel your battery connections and find a hot one, you've
found the problem.

If anything else pull the starter and have a reputable mechanic or a
local auto electric shop test it out. Jim could be right about worn or
possible dry bushings.

Have you ever had the bildge full of water to the point where the
starter motor got wet? If so, it's probably corroded inside. If its a
direct drive delco starter it's not an expensive process to install
brushs and bushings in it..

But again, check ALL the engine electric connections first.

And leave the 24v stuff alone. There's no need for it.

Another thought on the wiring. The battery neg. goes to a stud on the back
of one of the heads. The starters housing is at ground and relies on a good
electrical connection to the flywheel housing. If that housing is aluminum
you could have a bad ground do to corrosion, even if the bolts are tight. Do
a voltage drop test on the ground from the battery to the starter, and then
from the battery to the flywheel housing. Both while the engine is cranking.

87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drainsbattery.
 

On Jun 19, 10:02*pm, fzbuilder wrote:
Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff.
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

Not to be mean but it sounds like you are in over your head. I
suggest you find someone that can take a look at it. The problem
could be the starter but it could also be that the engine is hard to
turn over for some other reason. There is a trick to using 24v on a
starter but I'm guessing you just hooked 24v up to the positive and
negative lines and you may have toasted other stuff like your ignition
and gauges. You may just have cost yourself a whole lot of money.

The first thing to check on all boats is connection problems. Remove
and clean the big wire connections on both the positive side and the
negative side. Battery end and the ends bolted to the block and
starter.

If you are really more mechanically inclined than your post suggests,
pull the starter. Check it for play in the shaft side to side. See
if it spins freely when you apply 12v to it with a pair of jumper
cables. Someone has to hold it while you do this cause it will jump.
Put a 1/2" breaker bar and socket on the front of the engine. You
should be able to turn it over by hand. It will be hard but not
impossible. If it seems too hard try it with all the plugs removed,
it should be easier.

How long has it been since the boat last ran normally?

87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drains battery.
 

dead short... yep you got one, it's your brain cells for going 24v!


"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...
Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff.
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drains battery.
 

"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...
Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff.
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

Lots of other things on the boat may not work now because of 24V's. Is a
bad starter. Take it to a rebuilder and he will fix it. You do not have
the competence to fix it yourself. Chevy starters, and maybe other brands
would get shorts between the armature pieces and draw lots of current,
especially when the engine was hot. You could take a saw blade and clean
the gaps for a cure, but my advice to you is take it to the local autoparts
store and they have testers for starters. Do not buy and automotive starter
as it is not shielded for explosion stuff.

87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drainsbattery.
 

On Jun 22, 11:10*am, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message

...

Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff.
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

Ok...here is the latest. I took the starter off and took it to the
auto store. They tested it 3 times in a computerized machine and it
tested fine (passed) on all levels. Went home and put the starter
back on then double checked all the electrical and conections. Tried
to start it, but same thing. Pulled all the plugs and wammmm...spins
like crazy. My next step is to pull the valve covers and make sure all
valves are moving. Any thoughts?

87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drains battery.
 

"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...
On Jun 22, 11:10 am, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message

...

Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff.
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

Ok...here is the latest. I took the starter off and took it to the
auto store. They tested it 3 times in a computerized machine and it
tested fine (passed) on all levels. Went home and put the starter
back on then double checked all the electrical and conections. Tried
to start it, but same thing. Pulled all the plugs and wammmm...spins
like crazy. My next step is to pull the valve covers and make sure all
valves are moving. Any thoughts?

Did water come out of any of the spark plug holes when you cranked it over?
I still think you should do a voltage drop test on the positive and negative
starter wiring.

87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drainsbattery.
 

On Jun 24, 5:21*pm, fzbuilder wrote:
On Jun 22, 11:10*am, "Calif Bill" wrote:

"fzbuilder" wrote in message

....

Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff.
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

Ok...here is the latest. I took the starter off and took it to the
auto store. They tested it 3 times in a computerized machine and it
tested fine (passed) on all levels. Went *home and put the starter
back on then double checked all the electrical and conections. Tried
to start it, but same thing. Pulled all the plugs and wammmm...spins
like crazy. My next step is to pull the valve covers and make sure all
valves are moving. Any thoughts?

YES! leave thevalve covers alone. why do you want to get radical with
valve covers? why not pull the engine and take off the oil pan and see
if the crankshaft is turning?

Pardon me, I dont' want to come across like a smart -alec, but . look
at the bigger picture, Are you sure the ignition timing is correct?
too far advanced timing and the starter will act like it's hitting a
brick wall because the cylinders are firing too soon. You said you
replaced the coil. so I'm wowndering inf you did any thing else to the
distributor, by chance?

OK so you took the starter to the parts store and had them "test it" .
like most part stores, they possibly will hook it to to a fancy-
schmancy machine and let it free spin and scream at the top of it's
lungs. did anyone ever think to take it apart and see what kind of
shape it looked like inside?
HECK NO!

But it sure spun good. so test passed.

87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drainsbattery.
 

On Jun 24, 6:21*pm, fzbuilder wrote:
On Jun 22, 11:10*am, "Calif Bill" wrote:

"fzbuilder" wrote in message

....

Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff.
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

Ok...here is the latest. I took the starter off and took it to the
auto store. They tested it 3 times in a computerized machine and it
tested fine (passed) on all levels. Went *home and put the starter
back on then double checked all the electrical and conections. Tried
to start it, but same thing. Pulled all the plugs and wammmm...spins
like crazy. My next step is to pull the valve covers and make sure all
valves are moving. Any thoughts?

Double checked connections? Or disconnected and cleaned them? Visual
inspection will not reveal a bad connection. You must either
disassemble and clean it with a wire brush or put a volt meter across
it and measure the voltage drop when the starter is engaged. Taking
it apart and cleaning it is easier. Trust me, on a 1987 boat you have
wiring corrosion. It may or may not be your problem but you do have
it.

How long has it been since the boat ran normally? What exactly have
you done to it since it ran normally? Any of that done before it
became hard to start?

Also the water question is valid. Did any water come out of the plug
holes? Any of the plugs look like they may have been wet with water?
Unsure? Put the plugs back in, leave the wires off, crank it. If the
wires are off then it should crank normally. Timing issues will not
affect it with the wires off. If it still does not crank normally
then you still have starter issues.

87 Bayliner with Penta 350cid starter cranks slow and drainsbattery.
 

On Jun 25, 12:33*pm, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:21:02 -0700 (PDT), fzbuilder penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:





On Jun 22, 11:10*am, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message

....

Hey all, I have a issue with my starter cranking the engine so slow
that it will not start, then drains the battery. This happens with any
battery I put in it. I even had a Snap-on starter boost charger on it
and still not enough cranking. I ended up wiring 2 batteries in seires
for 24volts and it would crank fast (but still not start), then kill
the batteries after a few times. I am wondering if I have a dead short
somewhere and if anyone has any ideas before I start replacing stuff..
I just replaced the coil and after doing some tests per the Penta Book
and now I have spark, but I am worried to put the 24volts back on and
damage anything. I orginaly put the 24volts on from some advise and
now I hear that can mess up your system. Help Please!!

Ok...here is the latest. I took the starter off and took it to the
auto store. They tested it 3 times in a computerized machine and it
tested fine (passed) on all levels. Went *home and put the starter
back on then double checked all the electrical and conections. Tried
to start it, but same thing. Pulled all the plugs and wammmm...spins
like crazy. My next step is to pull the valve covers and make sure all
valves are moving. Any thoughts?

Sounds like a plan. If one or more valves aren't moving, you'll have
some damaged pushrods at least. If all of the valves are moving, you
may have some serious valvetrain issues....

Does it even try to fire? IF you're getting firing or backfiring....
I'd look for ignition issues. Does it have a distributor? If so.... it
might be a carbon track.

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

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- Show quoted text -

If it has valve train issues that are a cranking problem it would not
have cranked with the plugs out. And valve train issues are not
likely to cause a starting problem either as they would most likely
affect just one or two cylinders. It's not time to remove the valve
covers, the symptoms don't suggest that.