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First boat
I'm looking at buying my first boat. I'm looking at a "runabout" style
for family boating (tubing, cruising, etc). My wife and I looked at a new 07 Bayliner 175 at the dealer for $14500. However, I hate thinking about paying over $1000 in taxes on it. I'm also looking at a 2003 185 Bayliner with 90 hours on it (both have "family pack, stereo). The 185 has 190 hp fish/depth finder and new trailer breaks for about $12,000 So I guess the question is how much difference does 4 years make on a boat. It certainly looks like I get much more boat in the 185. Is 90 hours much? I looked at some 185's at the dealer (all new though) but I'm assuming the 2008 185 is still larger than the new 175. Also, since I've never bought a boat before I'm not really sure what to look for when I take a look at it. I know some of the newer Bayliner's come with lifetime hull warrantys but I'm not sure about a 2002. -Robert |
First boat
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
... I'm looking at buying my first boat. I'm looking at a "runabout" style for family boating (tubing, cruising, etc). My wife and I looked at a new 07 Bayliner 175 at the dealer for $14500. However, I hate thinking about paying over $1000 in taxes on it. I'm also looking at a 2003 185 Bayliner with 90 hours on it (both have "family pack, stereo). The 185 has 190 hp fish/depth finder and new trailer breaks for about $12,000 So I guess the question is how much difference does 4 years make on a boat. It certainly looks like I get much more boat in the 185. Is 90 hours much? I looked at some 185's at the dealer (all new though) but I'm assuming the 2008 185 is still larger than the new 175. Also, since I've never bought a boat before I'm not really sure what to look for when I take a look at it. I know some of the newer Bayliner's come with lifetime hull warrantys but I'm not sure about a 2002. -Robert Others can comment on boat age. I'll suggest this: Make sure you load the whole family into whatever boats you're considering, and have them sit where you expect them to during actual operation. It'll probably seem really exciting. But then, with everyone seated, look at how much storage & floor space is available, and think about where you're going to put all the crap that inevitably ends up in a boat. Ice chest, tackle boxes, jackets/coats - all of it can make a seemingly roomy boat pretty claustrophobic. If you feel as cramped as if you were on a long plane flight in cheap seats, that boat won't be much fun to spend a day in. Don't forget the inflated tube, the air pump, anchor, ropes, cushions, throwable lifesaving device, fishing poles, binoculars, radio, camera, beach towels, and hand grenades for waking up uncooperative fish. It all has to go somewhere. Stuff on the deck can end up being a safety problem if people are tripping over them. With everyone seated, and you in the steering position, can you see safely past the tallest person's head? If not, that can be a safety issue and a major annoyance if you're boating on insanely crowded waters where something nutty is happening every two minutes (drunk boaters, brain-dead teenage jet-ski operators). Try to find everything wrong with the boat before you own it. |
First boat
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:20:44 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary"
wrote: I'm looking at buying my first boat. I'm looking at a "runabout" style for family boating (tubing, cruising, etc). My wife and I looked at a new 07 Bayliner 175 at the dealer for $14500. However, I hate thinking about paying over $1000 in taxes on it. I'm also looking at a 2003 185 Bayliner with 90 hours on it (both have "family pack, stereo). The 185 has 190 hp fish/depth finder and new trailer breaks for about $12,000 Not sure where you live, but the difference in tax between $12K and $14.5K isn't much considering the total value of the vessel. - like maybe $100. So I guess the question is how much difference does 4 years make on a boat. It certainly looks like I get much more boat in the 185. Is 90 hours much? I looked at some 185's at the dealer (all new though) but I'm assuming the 2008 185 is still larger than the new 175. Pre-owned boats can be problematic unless it's always been maintained by the dealer, the dealer has service records on the boat and that the proper maintainence has been completed when it needs to be done. You won't be able to tell how the boat was run, but a good solid service record will give you an idea of how the previous owner felt about ownership. The difference between a 175 and 185 is minimal believe it or not. You would think the extra foot adds a lot but it doesn't. In terms of money, it just so happens that there are two locally for sale - 185 2003 Bayliner runabouts. One is in Bristol condition (meaning it's pretty close to showroom) and it's advertised for $10.7K and the other is in "good" condition at $9.9K. Checking the books (which I just received a new set of) average high retail (averaging all three books together) is $10.5K, average low retail is $9K. With respect to the 2003, don't get all hot and bothered by the fish/depth finder and brakes - that's normal maintenance and doesn't add to the value of the boat at all. Also, since I've never bought a boat before I'm not really sure what to look for when I take a look at it. I know some of the newer Bayliner's come with lifetime hull warrantys but I'm not sure about a 2002. First of all, be aware that Bayliner is considered the Yugo of the boating industry - in some cases deserved and in others not so much. The more modern Bayliners are good boats - nothing stellar or outstanding, just a good entry level boat. The boat that you are considering is their entry level boat - it's meant to be an introduction boat, run for a couple years and then if you take a fancy to running the boat and the family likes it, trade up to a larger or more powerful boat inline with your interests. I've seen buys go from these small Bayliners to wakeboard/ski boats and in one case a bass boat because the guy loved fishing and the family could care less about boating. In terms of purchase, it's always a good idea to have the boat looked at by a good mechanic at another dealer. Pay for an hour of shop time and have the engine checked - compression, hours, outdrive, etc. Cosmetic things are generally noted when you are looking at the boat, but don't do your looking all at once - that way you will miss things like little tears in the vinyl, scuff marks here and there - that kind of thing. Usually it's best to look it over, talk to the sales guy away from the boat, then go back and look at it again more critically. In terms of value, it really depends on the market in your area. In general, this is a good time to buy second hand as there are a lot of boats out there for sale and making a good deal is a little easier. Lastly, as another member mentioned, you need to see if you are comfortable with the boat, what exactly you expect from the boat (ski, wake board, tube, fish), how many people onboard at any time (max), etc. You need to get onboard and sit in the seats see if your are comfortable and can move around sufficiently without restriction. How much storage will you need - etc. A secondary consideration is if you can properly tow the vessel with what ever you are using to tow with. There are a lot of considerations in buying a boat. For example, I purchased a 32' Contender Center Console a few years back thinking that Mrs. Wave wasn't interested (or so she said at the time), then she wanted something with a small cabin so I sold the CC and bought a 32' Contender Fisharound with cuddy and she rode in it three times and never went back - not interested in boating or fishing. So I sold my dream boat, purchased another different boat and ended up selling that boat and I'm back in the market for a 32' CC again. :) You may find something similar with this boat - your family might not be interested. Lots of things to think about. |
First boat
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
... There are a lot of considerations in buying a boat. For example, I purchased a 32' Contender Center Console a few years back thinking that Mrs. Wave wasn't interested (or so she said at the time), then she wanted something with a small cabin so I sold the CC and bought a 32' Contender Fisharound with cuddy and she rode in it three times and never went back - not interested in boating or fishing. Maybe she wanted YOU to have the cabin, for your safety (hypothermia, locust attack, etc) |
First boat
On Mar 26, 12:46*pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:20:44 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary" wrote: Not sure where you live, but the difference in tax between $12K and $14.5K isn't much considering the total value of the vessel. - like maybe $100. I live in a pretty high tax state so generally when you sell something to someone you write two contracts. One for the state and another for the actual sale price. Of course the dealer can't do that. ;) Pre-owned boats can be problematic unless it's always been maintained by the dealer, the dealer has service records on the boat and that the What types of things do you see go wrong when boats are not maintained well? Everyone has told me I should go out with the seller on the water but other than making sure the engine doesn't die I'm not sure what I'm suppose to be doing. I'm pretty handy mechanically (I've rebuilt car motors, etc) so I could do some maintenance myself. The difference between a 175 and 185 is minimal believe it or not. You would think the extra foot adds a lot but it doesn't. One of the things I was thinking was just capacity. The 175 has a Coast Guard sticker that says "7 people". We're a family of 4 and it would be cool to invite another family of 4 on board. The 185 says 8 people so I was just thinking it would be better to have the 8. Of course 1/2 those people will probably have to be little guys (pre- teens). First of all, be aware that Bayliner is considered the Yugo of the boating industry - in some cases deserved and in others not so much. The more modern Bayliners are good boats - nothing stellar or outstanding, just a good entry level boat. The dealer kind of mentioned that. He said they're well built boats but they they are pretty stripped down. The boat that you are considering is their entry level boat - it's meant to be an introduction boat, run for a couple years and then if you take a fancy to running the boat and the family likes it, trade up to a larger or more powerful boat inline with your interests. *I've seen buys go from these small Bayliners to wakeboard/ski boats and in one case a bass boat because the guy loved fishing and the family could care less about boating. I was kind of thinking that. If I bought from the dealer I would have the warranty and dealer support (which would be good for a newby) but I would incur the large initial depreciation. If I bought used I could let the previous owner lose the depreciation and be able to sell it in a couple years for near what I bought it for. Lastly, as another member mentioned, you need to see if you are comfortable with the boat, what exactly you expect from the boat (ski, wake board, tube, fish), how many people onboard at any time (max), etc. *You need to get onboard and sit in the seats see if your are comfortable and can move around sufficiently without restriction. How much storage will you need - etc. *A secondary consideration is if you can properly tow the vessel with what ever you are using to tow with. Hehe, when we bought the plane I took the family over to the service center and did a "fit test" to see that everyone fit ok. My wife was a bit offended at the notion that she may not "fit" but it was helpful. My boys are just so excited about getting a boat I think they'd be happy to ride in a raft. Some years back I flew sea planes for an operator in central California. I loved spending time on the water (sometimes I'd land in the middle of the lake and just jump in). We just got back from Mexico where we would often hire local fisherman to take us around nearby islands for snorkling. That kind of got the fire burning again. Interestingly there are no inboard motors in Mexico, every single boat I saw was outboard. -Robert |
First boat
On Mar 26, 1:46*pm, "D-unit" wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in ... Also, since I've never bought a boat before I'm not really sure what to look for when I take a look at it. I know some of the newer Bayliner's come with lifetime hull warrantys but I'm not sure about a 2002. -Robert Might I suggest a pontoon boat for your needs. I did look at platform boats (which I think are similar). However, I found many of them were too heavy for my car to pull. Plus I have two pre-teen boys who's only goal in life is to go fast. -Robert |
First boat
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message ... I'm looking at buying my first boat. I'm looking at a "runabout" style for family boating (tubing, cruising, etc). My wife and I looked at a new 07 Bayliner 175 at the dealer for $14500. However, I hate thinking about paying over $1000 in taxes on it. I'm also looking at a 2003 185 Bayliner with 90 hours on it (both have "family pack, stereo). The 185 has 190 hp fish/depth finder and new trailer breaks for about $12,000 So I guess the question is how much difference does 4 years make on a boat. It certainly looks like I get much more boat in the 185. Is 90 hours much? I looked at some 185's at the dealer (all new though) but I'm assuming the 2008 185 is still larger than the new 175. Also, since I've never bought a boat before I'm not really sure what to look for when I take a look at it. I know some of the newer Bayliner's come with lifetime hull warrantys but I'm not sure about a 2002. -Robert Might I suggest a pontoon boat for your needs. Pros: -PLENTY of room -Able to tow tube/ski -Low maintenance -Safety/Difficult to sink -Did I mention PLENTY of room? -Nice deck to fish from -Economical -Sturdy Cons: -Drives like a "parking lot" (no big deal to me) -Reduced "cool" factor (no big deal to me) -? We own a 20' Bennington and wouldn't trade it for anything else. Its nice to cruise or anchor up and take a nap. We can invite a few friends and take a Coleman grill along and we've got an instant party. You can order them now with a head/changing booth. Oh, If you get one and your brother-in-law asks to borrow it, make up some excuse not too. db |
First boat
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
... The difference between a 175 and 185 is minimal believe it or not. You would think the extra foot adds a lot but it doesn't. One of the things I was thinking was just capacity. The 175 has a Coast Guard sticker that says "7 people". We're a family of 4 and it would be cool to invite another family of 4 on board. The 185 says 8 people so I was just thinking it would be better to have the 8. Of course 1/2 those people will probably have to be little guys (pre- teens). ====================== Those stickers refer to safe weight, not comfort. I have a 14 foot boat. I can safely carry 5 people, according to the sticker. But, we'd be bored, hungry & thirsty because there'd be no room for anything but people, some rope, and the gas tank. I can't imagine 8 people on an 18 foot boat. OK...maybe for about 20 minutes. But not much longer. |
First boat
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:18:24 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary"
wrote: On Mar 26, 12:46*pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:20:44 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary" wrote: Not sure where you live, but the difference in tax between $12K and $14.5K isn't much considering the total value of the vessel. - like maybe $100. I live in a pretty high tax state so generally when you sell something to someone you write two contracts. One for the state and another for the actual sale price. Of course the dealer can't do that. ;) It's still a minor consideration. Pre-owned boats can be problematic unless it's always been maintained by the dealer, the dealer has service records on the boat and that the What types of things do you see go wrong when boats are not maintained well? Everyone has told me I should go out with the seller on the water but other than making sure the engine doesn't die I'm not sure what I'm suppose to be doing. I'm pretty handy mechanically (I've rebuilt car motors, etc) so I could do some maintenance myself. All kinds of things, but these boats are new enough that things like water migration and such aren't really a problem. You just want to take a closer look at an older boat - in particular the outdrive and where it passes through the transom. On an older boat, like the 2003, you might want to have the boot and seal changed to to be sure. In general, just look at the hull, make sure there aren't any huge gouges, etc. There probably won't be because it's still new and it is being sold by a dealer - meaning that it probably was a trade in and they don't trade junk boats. The difference between a 175 and 185 is minimal believe it or not. You would think the extra foot adds a lot but it doesn't. One of the things I was thinking was just capacity. The 175 has a Coast Guard sticker that says "7 people". We're a family of 4 and it would be cool to invite another family of 4 on board. The 185 says 8 people so I was just thinking it would be better to have the 8. Of course 1/2 those people will probably have to be little guys (pre- teens). The problem here is that little people become big people very quickly. And remember, when the boat is loaded, performance suffers. You may want to look at a 20 footer if you are serious about having eight people aboard. ~~ snip ~~ The boat that you are considering is their entry level boat - it's meant to be an introduction boat, run for a couple years and then if you take a fancy to running the boat and the family likes it, trade up to a larger or more powerful boat inline with your interests. *I've seen buys go from these small Bayliners to wakeboard/ski boats and in one case a bass boat because the guy loved fishing and the family could care less about boating. I was kind of thinking that. If I bought from the dealer I would have the warranty and dealer support (which would be good for a newby) but I would incur the large initial depreciation. If I bought used I could let the previous owner lose the depreciation and be able to sell it in a couple years for near what I bought it for. Oh oh. :) Unfortunately, that's not anywhere near the truth. Boats, in particular entry level boats, depreciate very quickly - you will lose at least 25% for just a couple of years of use. Don't think that you will recover your investment like that - it just doesn't happen with these types of boats. Other boats - yes - you will not lose as much, but you will not get what you invested. For example, I have a 2000 Ranger with a relatively new 2006 200 hp ETEC HO (low hours/5 years on the warranty left) and recently redone trailer. I have it insured for $34,000 because that's about what it's worth if I had to replace it. I'd be hard pressed to sell it for $16K - more like $12K and I'd have to wait a while for that. This is a quality boat by the way. That's just an illustration. I've been in the used market looking for that one boat that I will keep until I can't use it anymore and prices, compared to new, are amazing in terms of what the owners have lost even in used value. Just a word to the wise. Lastly, as another member mentioned, you need to see if you are comfortable with the boat, what exactly you expect from the boat (ski, wake board, tube, fish), how many people onboard at any time (max), etc. *You need to get onboard and sit in the seats see if your are comfortable and can move around sufficiently without restriction. How much storage will you need - etc. *A secondary consideration is if you can properly tow the vessel with what ever you are using to tow with. Hehe, when we bought the plane I took the family over to the service center and did a "fit test" to see that everyone fit ok. My wife was a bit offended at the notion that she may not "fit" but it was helpful. My boys are just so excited about getting a boat I think they'd be happy to ride in a raft. Some years back I flew sea planes for an operator in central California. I loved spending time on the water (sometimes I'd land in the middle of the lake and just jump in). We just got back from Mexico where we would often hire local fisherman to take us around nearby islands for snorkling. That kind of got the fire burning again. Interestingly there are no inboard motors in Mexico, every single boat I saw was outboard. Seems like we've discussed this before - I have a strange sense of deja vue all over again. :) I'm an unabashed outboard guy - prefer them to inboards for any number of reasons that I don't want to rehash as I've made my points so often, it gets boring. :) |
First boat
On Mar 26, 1:47*pm, "JimH" wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message BTW: *A 2007 model is not *new*. Well, new in that the engine has never been run and the boat has never been out of the dealer's show room. -Robert |
First boat
On Mar 26, 1:44*pm, "JimH" wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in ... On Mar 26, 12:46 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing 5. *Because of a past well earned reputation, Bayliner resale values suffer. Although the low quality structural and mechanical issues they once had are a thing of the past that reputation remains with the brand............perception is reality even today. *You will take a hit on resale on both boats because of this, especially considering that the 2003 boat is overpriced. The seller and I are basing the price on NADA. Is that not a good resource to determine price? -Robert |
First boat
On Mar 26, 1:47*pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:18:24 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary" I live in a pretty high tax state so generally when you sell something to someone you write two contracts. One for the state and another for the actual sale price. Of course the dealer can't do that. ;) It's still a minor consideration. Its about $1000. If I pay for taxes on the $14500 boat from the dealer I'm paying $1123 in sales tax. If I buy the $11,000 boat from the individual and we report it as $1500 to the state I'll pay $116. That's almost $1000 savings. -Robert |
First boat
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:48:38 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary"
wrote: On Mar 26, 1:44*pm, "JimH" wrote: "Robert M. Gary" wrote in ... On Mar 26, 12:46 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing 5. *Because of a past well earned reputation, Bayliner resale values suffer. Although the low quality structural and mechanical issues they once had are a thing of the past that reputation remains with the brand............perception is reality even today. *You will take a hit on resale on both boats because of this, especially considering that the 2003 boat is overpriced. The seller and I are basing the price on NADA. Is that not a good resource to determine price? That's one and a commonly accepted value. There are others including a couple of industry only publications. The real question is what the market is in your area. It's like anything else in a slow sales market - it's what somebody is willing to take, not necessarily the asking price. NADA is a national average despite all the zip code nonsense. If I had to guess, I say offer $7.5K and see what happens. You can always go up. :) |
First boat
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:27:16 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary"
wrote: On Mar 26, 1:47*pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:18:24 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary" I live in a pretty high tax state so generally when you sell something to someone you write two contracts. One for the state and another for the actual sale price. Of course the dealer can't do that. ;) It's still a minor consideration. Its about $1000. If I pay for taxes on the $14500 boat from the dealer I'm paying $1123 in sales tax. If I buy the $11,000 boat from the individual and we report it as $1500 to the state I'll pay $116. That's almost $1000 savings. Do you register the boat with your DMV? I guarentee you, unless it's reported as a loss of some sort, you will be paying book price for the sales tax. CT DMV does it all the time on sales that are less than 10% of similar sales. Most states have caught up with that dodge. |
First boat
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message ... snip..... One of the things I was thinking was just capacity. The 175 has a Coast Guard sticker that says "7 people". We're a family of 4 and it would be cool to invite another family of 4 on board. The 185 says 8 people so I was just thinking it would be better to have the 8. Of course 1/2 those people will probably have to be little guys (pre- teens). snip... -Robert I remember the time the guy I crewed with (Mirage 33 sailboat) invited a family with four rugrats. Man...was I glad to see the shore again. There's always one kid who gets upset/sick whatever and disrupts the whole trip. Too bad because the mom was a babe. |
First boat
On Mar 26, 5:05*pm, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:27:16 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary" Must be a stupid state if it doesn't check book values. Typically you just tell them it wasn't running when you bought it. I've known "friends" who have done this was cars, planes, etc. -Robert |
First boat
On Mar 26, 4:03*pm, "Don White" wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in ... I remember the time the guy I crewed with (Mirage 33 sailboat) invited a family with four rugrats. Man...was I glad to see the shore again. * There's always one kid who gets upset/sick whatever and disrupts the whole trip. Too bad because the mom was a babe. My boys have spent more than a 1000 hours sitting in our plane flying over some pretty bumping areas of Mexico, Canada and the desert SW. We also spent some time in little fishing boats on the Sea of Cortez so I'm pretty sure they're able to handle it. ;) -Robert |
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On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:27:16 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary"
wrote: On Mar 26, 1:47*pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:18:24 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary" I live in a pretty high tax state so generally when you sell something to someone you write two contracts. One for the state and another for the actual sale price. Of course the dealer can't do that. ;) It's still a minor consideration. Its about $1000. If I pay for taxes on the $14500 boat from the dealer I'm paying $1123 in sales tax. If I buy the $11,000 boat from the individual and we report it as $1500 to the state I'll pay $116. That's almost $1000 savings. -Robert Must be a stupid state if it doesn't check book values. -- John *H* (Not the other one!) |
First boat
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message ... On Mar 26, 4:03 pm, "Don White" wrote: "Robert M. Gary" wrote in ... I remember the time the guy I crewed with (Mirage 33 sailboat) invited a family with four rugrats. Man...was I glad to see the shore again. There's always one kid who gets upset/sick whatever and disrupts the whole trip. Too bad because the mom was a babe. My boys have spent more than a 1000 hours sitting in our plane flying over some pretty bumping areas of Mexico, Canada and the desert SW. We also spent some time in little fishing boats on the Sea of Cortez so I'm pretty sure they're able to handle it. ;) -Robert That's good to hear....now..what about the other family you were inviting..?? |
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On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:53:05 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: It is good advice, but to tell the truth, I can't think of one dealership around here that rents boats. Resort and vacation areas usually have some rental opportunities. I once needed a rental on the St Lawrence River for a family outing, and found one quickly on Google. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...oog le+Search or http://tinyurl.com/yt5ny4 |
First boat
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in news:a329dd2d-8a5a-4edf-9fcf-
: snip The 185 has 190 hp fish/depth finder and new trailer breaks for about $12,000 snip -Robert You should get a trailer that doesn't "break" |
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On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:36:09 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:53:05 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: It is good advice, but to tell the truth, I can't think of one dealership around here that rents boats. Resort and vacation areas usually have some rental opportunities. I once needed a rental on the St Lawrence River for a family outing, and found one quickly on Google. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...oog le+Search or http://tinyurl.com/yt5ny4 I'll be danged. |
First boat
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:49:25 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:10:08 -0500, wrote: Everyone should really be sure they are going to use a boat before they buy one. Renting gives you the option of seeing how you like the boating experience and also getting to try different kinds of boats for basically what an occasional boat user has to pay to own one. You will figure out pretty quickly if you are really a boater. Even then, you are not launching and recovering or having to tow. How much is that worth? Pretty good advice in my opinion. At the very least try to hitch a ride or two on the kind of boats you are interested in. It is amazing how small a 17 or 18 ft boat gets when it is actually on the water. Another strategy is to buy an old beat up boat for a few thousand bucks, run it for a little while and then give it away for next to nothing. You'll have some fun and also get an education at a reasonable price. Buy a SeaTow membership and carry a VHF radio. It is good advice, but to tell the truth, I can't think of one dealership around here that rents boats. Not one. There are several places on the Bay that rent all sorts of boats, power, jetski, outboards, I/O's. I don't know if any are affiliated with dealers. From the ads I've seen, some of the boats are very nice. |
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HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:49:25 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:10:08 -0500, wrote: Everyone should really be sure they are going to use a boat before they buy one. Renting gives you the option of seeing how you like the boating experience and also getting to try different kinds of boats for basically what an occasional boat user has to pay to own one. You will figure out pretty quickly if you are really a boater. Even then, you are not launching and recovering or having to tow. How much is that worth? Pretty good advice in my opinion. At the very least try to hitch a ride or two on the kind of boats you are interested in. It is amazing how small a 17 or 18 ft boat gets when it is actually on the water. Another strategy is to buy an old beat up boat for a few thousand bucks, run it for a little while and then give it away for next to nothing. You'll have some fun and also get an education at a reasonable price. Buy a SeaTow membership and carry a VHF radio. It is good advice, but to tell the truth, I can't think of one dealership around here that rents boats. Not one. There are several places on the Bay that rent all sorts of boats, power, jetski, outboards, I/O's. I don't know if any are affiliated with dealers. From the ads I've seen, some of the boats are very nice. Even our dried up tiny pond has a place to rent boats, from runabouts to 60' houseboats, but I think they now are now called mud skippers. |
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"akheel" wrote in message ... "Robert M. Gary" wrote in news:a329dd2d-8a5a-4edf-9fcf- : snip The 185 has 190 hp fish/depth finder and new trailer breaks for about $12,000 snip -Robert You should get a trailer that doesn't "break" Yeah... brakes can be ok..especially in fresh water environments..(not so good in salt water) but a trailer that breaks is bad..... Happened to me in the first 500km of a 4500km round trip last August. |
First boat
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
... I'm looking at buying my first boat. I'm looking at a "runabout" style for family boating (tubing, cruising, etc). My wife and I looked at a new 07 Bayliner 175 at the dealer for $14500. However, I hate thinking about paying over $1000 in taxes on it. I'm also looking at a 2003 185 Bayliner with 90 hours on it (both have "family pack, stereo). The 185 has 190 hp fish/depth finder and new trailer breaks for about $12,000 So I guess the question is how much difference does 4 years make on a boat. It certainly looks like I get much more boat in the 185. Is 90 hours much? I looked at some 185's at the dealer (all new though) but I'm assuming the 2008 185 is still larger than the new 175. Also, since I've never bought a boat before I'm not really sure what to look for when I take a look at it. I know some of the newer Bayliner's come with lifetime hull warrantys but I'm not sure about a 2002. -Robert My advice, don't get the 4 banger. If you have several teenagers and the goal is water sports the 4 cylinder is going to be wimpy. Tubs with a bunch of kids on them are the worst for drag. |
First boat
,My wife and I looked at a new 07 Bayliner 175 at the dealer for $14500. However, I hate thinking about paying over $1000 in taxes on it. This is hilarious..... almost too silly to be funny. ... |
First boat
Might I suggest a pontoon boat for your needs. Pros: -PLENTY of room -Able to tow tube/ski -Low maintenance -Safety/Difficult to sink -Did I mention PLENTY of room? -Nice deck to fish from -Economical -Sturdy Cons: -Drives like a "parking lot" (no big deal to me) -Reduced "cool" factor (no big deal to me) -? We own a 20' Bennington and wouldn't trade it for anything else. Its nice to cruise or anchor up and take a nap. We can invite a few friends and take a Coleman grill along and we've got an instant party. *You can order them now with a head/changing booth. Oh, If you get one and your brother-in-law asks to borrow it, make up some excuse not too. db- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Might I suggest a pontoon boat for your needs. Pros: -PLENTY of room -Able to tow tube/ski -Low maintenance -Safety/Difficult to sink -Did I mention PLENTY of room? -Nice deck to fish from -Economical -Sturdy Cons: -Drives like a "parking lot" (no big deal to me) -Reduced "cool" factor (no big deal to me) -? You forgot to mention...TOTALLY useless in any chop.... |
First boat
"D-unit" wrote in message
... "Eat Me, Trolls" wrote in message ... Might I suggest a pontoon boat for your needs. Pros: -PLENTY of room -Able to tow tube/ski -Low maintenance -Safety/Difficult to sink -Did I mention PLENTY of room? -Nice deck to fish from -Economical -Sturdy Cons: -Drives like a "parking lot" (no big deal to me) -Reduced "cool" factor (no big deal to me) -? We own a 20' Bennington and wouldn't trade it for anything else. Its nice to cruise or anchor up and take a nap. We can invite a few friends and take a Coleman grill along and we've got an instant party. You can order them now with a head/changing booth. Oh, If you get one and your brother-in-law asks to borrow it, make up some excuse not too. db- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Might I suggest a pontoon boat for your needs. Pros: -PLENTY of room -Able to tow tube/ski -Low maintenance -Safety/Difficult to sink -Did I mention PLENTY of room? -Nice deck to fish from -Economical -Sturdy Cons: -Drives like a "parking lot" (no big deal to me) -Reduced "cool" factor (no big deal to me) -? You forgot to mention...TOTALLY useless in any chop.... Its not an offshore vessel no. "Chop" can (and does) exist in places other than "offshore". In some of the Finger Lakes of Western NY, for instance, there are regular wind patterns which create pretty spooky conditions. |
First boat
"Eat Me, Trolls" wrote in message ... Might I suggest a pontoon boat for your needs. Pros: -PLENTY of room -Able to tow tube/ski -Low maintenance -Safety/Difficult to sink -Did I mention PLENTY of room? -Nice deck to fish from -Economical -Sturdy Cons: -Drives like a "parking lot" (no big deal to me) -Reduced "cool" factor (no big deal to me) -? We own a 20' Bennington and wouldn't trade it for anything else. Its nice to cruise or anchor up and take a nap. We can invite a few friends and take a Coleman grill along and we've got an instant party. You can order them now with a head/changing booth. Oh, If you get one and your brother-in-law asks to borrow it, make up some excuse not too. db- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Might I suggest a pontoon boat for your needs. Pros: -PLENTY of room -Able to tow tube/ski -Low maintenance -Safety/Difficult to sink -Did I mention PLENTY of room? -Nice deck to fish from -Economical -Sturdy Cons: -Drives like a "parking lot" (no big deal to me) -Reduced "cool" factor (no big deal to me) -? You forgot to mention...TOTALLY useless in any chop.... Its not an offshore vessel no. db |
First boat
On Mar 26, 3:47*pm, "JimH" wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message ... "Robert M. Gary" wrote in message ... On Mar 26, 12:46 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:20:44 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary" wrote: Not sure where you live, but the difference in tax between $12K and $14.5K isn't much considering the total value of the vessel. - like maybe $100. I live in a pretty high tax state so generally when you sell something to someone you write two contracts. One for the state and another for the actual sale price. Of course the dealer can't do that. ;) Pre-owned boats can be problematic unless it's always been maintained by the dealer, the dealer has service records on the boat and that the What types of things do you see go wrong when boats are not maintained well? Everyone has told me I should go out with the seller on the water but other than making sure the engine doesn't die I'm not sure what I'm suppose to be doing. I'm pretty handy mechanically (I've rebuilt car motors, etc) so I could do some maintenance myself. The difference between a 175 and 185 is minimal believe it or not. You would think the extra foot adds a lot but it doesn't. One of the things I was thinking was just capacity. The 175 has a Coast Guard sticker that says "7 people". We're a family of 4 and it would be cool to invite another family of 4 on board. The 185 says 8 people so I was just thinking it would be better to have the 8. Of course 1/2 those people will probably have to be little guys (pre- teens). First of all, be aware that Bayliner is considered the Yugo of the boating industry - in some cases deserved and in others not so much. The more modern Bayliners are good boats - nothing stellar or outstanding, just a good entry level boat. The dealer kind of mentioned that. He said they're well built boats but they they are pretty stripped down. The boat that you are considering is their entry level boat - it's meant to be an introduction boat, run for a couple years and then if you take a fancy to running the boat and the family likes it, trade up to a larger or more powerful boat inline with your interests. I've seen buys go from these small Bayliners to wakeboard/ski boats and in one case a bass boat because the guy loved fishing and the family could care less about boating. I was kind of thinking that. If I bought from the dealer I would have the warranty and dealer support (which would be good for a newby) but I would incur the large initial depreciation. If I bought used I could let the previous owner lose the depreciation and be able to sell it in a couple years for near what I bought it for. Lastly, as another member mentioned, you need to see if you are comfortable with the boat, what exactly you expect from the boat (ski, wake board, tube, fish), how many people onboard at any time (max), etc. You need to get onboard and sit in the seats see if your are comfortable and can move around sufficiently without restriction. How much storage will you need - etc. A secondary consideration is if you can properly tow the vessel with what ever you are using to tow with. Hehe, when we bought the plane I took the family over to the service center and did a "fit test" to see that everyone fit ok. My wife was a bit offended at the notion that she may not "fit" but it was helpful. My boys are just so excited about getting a boat I think they'd be happy to ride in a raft. Some years back I flew sea planes for an operator in central California. I loved spending time on the water (sometimes I'd land in the middle of the lake and just jump in). We just got back from Mexico where we would often hire local fisherman to take us around nearby islands for snorkling. That kind of got the fire burning again. Interestingly there are no inboard motors in Mexico, every single boat I saw was outboard. -Robert ======================== ShortWave offered some great advice. I have a couple of comments to your reply to him: 1. *Although the 185 shows a maximum capacity of 8 people, that boat is far too small to comfortably carry 8 people. 2. *Neglected and/or abused boats can lead to any number of mechanical issues, including with the engine and outdrive. 3. *Why does the 2003 have such low hours? *90 hours for a 5 year old boat is very unusual. *Also, if the boat has only 90 hours why did the brakes on the trailer have to be replaced? * These 2 items alone would raise a red flag for me. 4. *If you consider the used boat, ask the owner for maintenance records/receipts and ask about the low hours. 5. *Because of a past well earned reputation, Bayliner resale values suffer. Although the low quality structural and mechanical issues they once had are a thing of the past that reputation remains with the brand............perception is reality even today. *You will take a hit on resale on both boats because of this, especially considering that the 2003 boat is overpriced. BTW: *A 2007 model is not *new*.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hold over from last year. should be discounted and still have full warrenty. |
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