New diesel outboards
 

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:24:45 -0500, lid wrote:

On Mar 11, Capt John wrote:
I imagine it wouldn't be
very easy to cram a turbo, a blower, and the plumbing for the air
under a small outboard cover

Why would you need both???

if it were a two stroke, you
probably wouldn't be able to sell them a few years from now.

Unless Etech has actually found a way to do what they claim to be
doing (lower emissions than current four strokes). Might work for two
stroke diesels as well.

On Wed,, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
I have a 3 liter ETEC 200 hp HO (90 degree block) that accomplishes
about the same fuel efficiency.

And you're happy with it so far I take it?

Drooling all over myself happy. :)

I've had people actually switch from Optimax to ETEC and I know one
guy who has a Verado 300 who is thinking of switching to the new 300
ETEC based on a ride on my boat.

I talked with a dealer the other day and he says they haven't replaced
a power head yet (but I wouldn't expect him to tell me even if he
has).

I'll admit I had some software problems initially with my ETEC, but it
was very unusual (like most things that happen to me). What happened
was that my engine is a 90 degree engine. The installed software was
for a 60 degree block and there were some issues with the clock.

I have seen one with a busted piston, but apparently the owner played
with the software and screwed something up.

Once that was figured out, it's hasn't even burped.

Etechs haven't caught on around here yet but given the pro-OMC crowd
of the past in my area, I don't know why it shouldn't. We shall see.

I'm seeing more and more of them and guys I know who own the 90 ETEC
swear by them as the best outboard engine ever built.

New diesel outboards
 

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:42:45 -0000, wrote:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:29:40 -0700, Capt John wrote:


I sure hope the article wasn't an "April Fools"
joke.

Maritime Engineering Group out of Ft. Myers:

http://www.megoutboard.com/

The address that they list in their contact info is little more than
small office space:

http://www.megoutboard.com/contact_us.html

Pie in the sky me thinks, or at best some sort of rebranded import.

Maybe from Australia ? :-)

New diesel outboards
 

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:50:44 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:42:45 -0000, wrote:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:29:40 -0700, Capt John wrote:


I sure hope the article wasn't an "April Fools"
joke.

Maritime Engineering Group out of Ft. Myers:

http://www.megoutboard.com/

The address that they list in their contact info is little more than
small office space:

http://www.megoutboard.com/contact_us.html

Pie in the sky me thinks, or at best some sort of rebranded import.

Maybe from Australia ? :-)

Built by Blokes.

Hey - that's a great marketing slogan.

Built by blokes - not for jokes!!

I'm a freakin' marketing genius.

New diesel outboards
 

On Mar 12, 7:42*am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:30:14 -0700 (PDT), Capt John





wrote:
On Mar 11, 12:29*pm, Capt John wrote:
Their's a very interesting article in this months Soundings about a
start up company in Florida that's developing diesel outboards with
some high hp output, most that are around now are low hp output. They
apparently have a working 2.3 liter prototype that put's out "about
200 hp". They had it on something like a 20 foot boat, fuel burn at
WOT, something like 5.6 gph. The article indicated that a typical
outboard of about 200 hp burns about 12 or 13 gph at WOT (I'm doing
this from memory, so I could be off a little). They never gave fuel
burn rates for a normal cruise RPM's, but I'd guess your probably in
the 4 gph range with WOT numbers like that. I'm not an outboard guy, I
like my inboard diesels, but somewhere in the 4 gph range is
impressive (might even be less). Their developing a 3.0 liter engine
as well. The weight of the engine wasn't bad either, like a typical
outboard of the same output. The engines are apparently rated for an
8,000 hour life as well. The prototype had a Mercury lower end (their
working on their own design), and the guy who wrote the article had a
chance to try it on a boat, so it's more than just a pipe dream. I
wouldn't be surprised to see one of the large engine manufacturers buy
them up if the engines look like their the real thing. I sure hope the
article wasn't an "April Fools" joke.

I checked again last night, it's on page 34. The boat was a 22 foot
Glassmaster, weighted just under 3000 pounds. The fuel burn rate was 6
gph, the milage they gave was 5.6 mpg (I wish they would use knots
instead of miles) with full fuel. It sounded like their four cylinder,
four stroke, turbo charged engines. A two stroke is going to need a
blower of some kind for exhaust scavenging. I imagine it wouldn't be
very easy to cram a turbo, a blower, and the plumbing for the air
under a small outboard cover, if it were a two stroke. Also, with the
regulations going the way they are, if it were a two stroke, you
probably wouldn't be able to sell them a few years from now. It was
interesting, if they do what they claim to do, you could probably
throw a pair of 3.0's on a 25 foot center console, get the same kind
of speed, and probably burn like 10 gph. A day trip to the Hudson
Canyon, three hours out, three back, seven hours of trolling, probably
75 gallons of fuel, I would guess that's about half what you would
burn now with gas outboards. These guy's could be the future of
offshore fishing with the way fuel prices are. The only thing that
could kill them would be if the manufacturer got greedy, and wanted an
outragous amount of money for the engines.

I have a 3 liter ETEC 200 hp HO (90 degree block) that accomplishes
about the same fuel efficiency.

I'm also curious about their speed figures - did the article mention
what speeds were attained?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The gas engines they spoke about ran in the 12 gph range at wide open
throttle, are you sure your engine burns 6 gph at wide open throttle?
I'm not an outboard owner, but I spoke to a friend of mine that has a
pair of Yamahas on a boat around 25 feet, the boat is only about 3
years old max, and he indicated the numbers quoted were reasonable
from his experiance. The prototype engine was built for them locally,
it doesn't sound like a rebranded engine. The weight alone sounds like
it's something new. The only thing I would worry about is the block,
it's probably aluminum, and aluminum diesels, because of the much
higher internal pressure, have been problems. Even aluminum heads with
an iron block can be a real problem on a diesel. We'll see.

New diesel outboards
 

On Mar 12, 9:24*am, wrote:
On Mar 11, Capt John wrote:

I imagine it wouldn't be
very easy to cram a turbo, a blower, and the plumbing for the air
under a small outboard cover

Why would you need both???

if it were a two stroke, you
probably wouldn't be able to sell them a few years from now.

Unless Etech has actually found a way to do what they claim to be
doing (lower emissions than current four strokes). Might work for two
stroke diesels as well.

On Wed,, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

I have a 3 liter ETEC 200 hp HO (90 degree block) that accomplishes
about the same fuel efficiency.

And you're happy with it so far I take it?
I talked with a dealer the other day and he says they haven't replaced
a power head yet (but I wouldn't expect him to tell me even if he
has).
Etechs haven't caught on around here yet but given the pro-OMC crowd
of the past in my area, I don't know why it shouldn't. *We shall see.

Rick

The artical indicated the engine was turbo charged. If the engine were
2 stroke, it has to have some kind of air pump to scavange exhaust,
basically pushes whatever gasses don't escape on their own out of the
cylinders. All two stroke engines employ some kind of air pump in
their design. In the case of outboard 2 strokes and small displacement
2 strokes the air pump is the backward stroke of the piston, along
with ports in the cylinder walls and reed valves that keep the
pressurized air from escaping out the carb (remove the reed valves and
see what happens). This kind of design does require an open crankcase,
roller bearings, and oil in the fuel which lubricates the bearings and
cylinder walls. In the case of diesels, because of the pressures
involved during compression, open roller bearings won't work, they
need traditional bearings with a fair amount of oil pressure. As such,
it needs a seperate air pump. The blower you see on Detroit Diesels
are for scavaging purposes only, the turbo's are supplying the real
boost. At higher RPM's the turbo's are probably supplying enough boost
to scavange the cylinders, as well as increase the amount of air
forced into the cylinders. But at low RPM's, without the blower, you'd
probably be lucky if you could get it to idle well, if at all.

New diesel outboards
 

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 09:36:22 -0700 (PDT), Capt John
wrote:

On Mar 12, 7:42*am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:30:14 -0700 (PDT), Capt John





wrote:
On Mar 11, 12:29*pm, Capt John wrote:
Their's a very interesting article in this months Soundings about a
start up company in Florida that's developing diesel outboards with
some high hp output, most that are around now are low hp output. They
apparently have a working 2.3 liter prototype that put's out "about
200 hp". They had it on something like a 20 foot boat, fuel burn at
WOT, something like 5.6 gph. The article indicated that a typical
outboard of about 200 hp burns about 12 or 13 gph at WOT (I'm doing
this from memory, so I could be off a little). They never gave fuel
burn rates for a normal cruise RPM's, but I'd guess your probably in
the 4 gph range with WOT numbers like that. I'm not an outboard guy, I
like my inboard diesels, but somewhere in the 4 gph range is
impressive (might even be less). Their developing a 3.0 liter engine
as well. The weight of the engine wasn't bad either, like a typical
outboard of the same output. The engines are apparently rated for an
8,000 hour life as well. The prototype had a Mercury lower end (their
working on their own design), and the guy who wrote the article had a
chance to try it on a boat, so it's more than just a pipe dream. I
wouldn't be surprised to see one of the large engine manufacturers buy
them up if the engines look like their the real thing. I sure hope the
article wasn't an "April Fools" joke.

I checked again last night, it's on page 34. The boat was a 22 foot
Glassmaster, weighted just under 3000 pounds. The fuel burn rate was 6
gph, the milage they gave was 5.6 mpg (I wish they would use knots
instead of miles) with full fuel. It sounded like their four cylinder,
four stroke, turbo charged engines. A two stroke is going to need a
blower of some kind for exhaust scavenging. I imagine it wouldn't be
very easy to cram a turbo, a blower, and the plumbing for the air
under a small outboard cover, if it were a two stroke. Also, with the
regulations going the way they are, if it were a two stroke, you
probably wouldn't be able to sell them a few years from now. It was
interesting, if they do what they claim to do, you could probably
throw a pair of 3.0's on a 25 foot center console, get the same kind
of speed, and probably burn like 10 gph. A day trip to the Hudson
Canyon, three hours out, three back, seven hours of trolling, probably
75 gallons of fuel, I would guess that's about half what you would
burn now with gas outboards. These guy's could be the future of
offshore fishing with the way fuel prices are. The only thing that
could kill them would be if the manufacturer got greedy, and wanted an
outragous amount of money for the engines.

I have a 3 liter ETEC 200 hp HO (90 degree block) that accomplishes
about the same fuel efficiency.

I'm also curious about their speed figures - did the article mention
what speeds were attained?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The gas engines they spoke about ran in the 12 gph range at wide open
throttle, are you sure your engine burns 6 gph at wide open throttle?
I'm not an outboard owner, but I spoke to a friend of mine that has a
pair of Yamahas on a boat around 25 feet, the boat is only about 3
years old max, and he indicated the numbers quoted were reasonable
from his experiance. The prototype engine was built for them locally,
it doesn't sound like a rebranded engine. The weight alone sounds like
it's something new. The only thing I would worry about is the block,
it's probably aluminum, and aluminum diesels, because of the much
higher internal pressure, have been problems. Even aluminum heads with
an iron block can be a real problem on a diesel. We'll see.

Published figures on a 225 ETEC HO (90 degree block) show at 30 MPH,
it's just under 9 GPH. 6 GPH for that engine is about 24 MPH. Mine is
a 200 ETEC HO (90 degree block) and on extended runs at 45 MPH, just
over 10 GPH and at cruise, 30 MPH, 6.787 GPH at last check. Overall
average which includes WOT, cruise and trolling, 3.5 GPH.

I can't remember, I think Scott was with me, when we did a whole day
out at Fisher's Island and gassed up on the way home - used twelve
gallons total for the day and we ran all over the place from
Stonington to The Race to Watch Hill Light and back to The Race and
back to Stonington.

I've also got to think that these things are noisey as heck even being
a four stroke. A 3.0 engine isn't a "small" engine.

New diesel outboards
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 09:36:22 -0700 (PDT), Capt John
wrote:

On Mar 12, 7:42 am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:30:14 -0700 (PDT), Capt John





wrote:
On Mar 11, 12:29 pm, Capt John wrote:
Their's a very interesting article in this months Soundings about a
start up company in Florida that's developing diesel outboards with
some high hp output, most that are around now are low hp output. They
apparently have a working 2.3 liter prototype that put's out "about
200 hp". They had it on something like a 20 foot boat, fuel burn at
WOT, something like 5.6 gph. The article indicated that a typical
outboard of about 200 hp burns about 12 or 13 gph at WOT (I'm doing
this from memory, so I could be off a little). They never gave fuel
burn rates for a normal cruise RPM's, but I'd guess your probably in
the 4 gph range with WOT numbers like that. I'm not an outboard guy,
I
like my inboard diesels, but somewhere in the 4 gph range is
impressive (might even be less). Their developing a 3.0 liter engine
as well. The weight of the engine wasn't bad either, like a typical
outboard of the same output. The engines are apparently rated for an
8,000 hour life as well. The prototype had a Mercury lower end (their
working on their own design), and the guy who wrote the article had a
chance to try it on a boat, so it's more than just a pipe dream. I
wouldn't be surprised to see one of the large engine manufacturers
buy
them up if the engines look like their the real thing. I sure hope
the
article wasn't an "April Fools" joke.

I checked again last night, it's on page 34. The boat was a 22 foot
Glassmaster, weighted just under 3000 pounds. The fuel burn rate was 6
gph, the milage they gave was 5.6 mpg (I wish they would use knots
instead of miles) with full fuel. It sounded like their four cylinder,
four stroke, turbo charged engines. A two stroke is going to need a
blower of some kind for exhaust scavenging. I imagine it wouldn't be
very easy to cram a turbo, a blower, and the plumbing for the air
under a small outboard cover, if it were a two stroke. Also, with the
regulations going the way they are, if it were a two stroke, you
probably wouldn't be able to sell them a few years from now. It was
interesting, if they do what they claim to do, you could probably
throw a pair of 3.0's on a 25 foot center console, get the same kind
of speed, and probably burn like 10 gph. A day trip to the Hudson
Canyon, three hours out, three back, seven hours of trolling, probably
75 gallons of fuel, I would guess that's about half what you would
burn now with gas outboards. These guy's could be the future of
offshore fishing with the way fuel prices are. The only thing that
could kill them would be if the manufacturer got greedy, and wanted an
outragous amount of money for the engines.

I have a 3 liter ETEC 200 hp HO (90 degree block) that accomplishes
about the same fuel efficiency.

I'm also curious about their speed figures - did the article mention
what speeds were attained?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The gas engines they spoke about ran in the 12 gph range at wide open
throttle, are you sure your engine burns 6 gph at wide open throttle?
I'm not an outboard owner, but I spoke to a friend of mine that has a
pair of Yamahas on a boat around 25 feet, the boat is only about 3
years old max, and he indicated the numbers quoted were reasonable
from his experiance. The prototype engine was built for them locally,
it doesn't sound like a rebranded engine. The weight alone sounds like
it's something new. The only thing I would worry about is the block,
it's probably aluminum, and aluminum diesels, because of the much
higher internal pressure, have been problems. Even aluminum heads with
an iron block can be a real problem on a diesel. We'll see.

Published figures on a 225 ETEC HO (90 degree block) show at 30 MPH,
it's just under 9 GPH. 6 GPH for that engine is about 24 MPH. Mine is
a 200 ETEC HO (90 degree block) and on extended runs at 45 MPH, just
over 10 GPH and at cruise, 30 MPH, 6.787 GPH at last check. Overall
average which includes WOT, cruise and trolling, 3.5 GPH.

I can't remember, I think Scott was with me, when we did a whole day
out at Fisher's Island and gassed up on the way home - used twelve
gallons total for the day and we ran all over the place from
Stonington to The Race to Watch Hill Light and back to The Race and
back to Stonington.

I've also got to think that these things are noisey as heck even being
a four stroke. A 3.0 engine isn't a "small" engine.

That's amazing. My 200HP Optimax on a Lund 1900-Pro-V uses about 19 GPH as
indicated on my Flo-Scan meter.

New diesel outboards
 

On Wed, 12 Mar 08, Capt John wrote:
The artical indicated the engine was turbo charged. If the engine were
2 stroke, it has to have some kind of air pump to scavange exhaust,
basically pushes whatever gasses don't escape on their own out of the
cylinders. All two stroke engines employ some kind of air pump in
their design. In the case of outboard 2 strokes and small displacement
2 strokes the air pump is the backward stroke of the piston, along
with ports in the cylinder walls and reed valves that keep the
pressurized air from escaping out the carb (remove the reed valves and
see what happens). This kind of design does require an open crankcase,
roller bearings, and oil in the fuel which lubricates the bearings and
cylinder walls. In the case of diesels, because of the pressures
involved during compression, open roller bearings won't work, they
need traditional bearings with a fair amount of oil pressure. As such,
it needs a seperate air pump. The blower you see on Detroit Diesels
are for scavaging purposes only, the turbo's are supplying the real
boost. At higher RPM's the turbo's are probably supplying enough boost
to scavange the cylinders, as well as increase the amount of air
forced into the cylinders. But at low RPM's, without the blower, you'd
probably be lucky if you could get it to idle well, if at all.

I'll have to let that sink in awhile. The only 2 cycle diesel I'm
pretty familiar with is a Detroit 4-53. It uses a blower and doesn't
have or need a turbo. I'm pretty sure a 6V-53 is designed the same
way. I can't imagine shrinking either of them down enough to clamp
onto a transom though so obviously I'm lacking something in design
knowledge.

Rick

New diesel outboards
 

On Wed, 12 Mar 08, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
I'm seeing more and more of them and guys I know who own the 90 ETEC
swear by them as the best outboard engine ever built.

Even so, they've got their work cut out getting the market back from
Yamaha. The most well known long time OMC dealer here doesn't sell new
motors at all anymore. They keep the shop doors open by maintaining
everybody's old 2 strokes. They've got a loyal customer base.
Most people here don't even know we have an Etech dealer. The store is
new and known more for selling jet skis, four wheelers, and bicycles.
I think the old OMC dealer could do a much better job at competing
with the Yamaha dealers. I'm not sure how it ended up like this. But
frankly, everything is still topsy turvy around here after Katrina.
It's a different world here.
It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out though.

Rick

New diesel outboards
 

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Mar 08, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
I'm seeing more and more of them and guys I know who own the 90 ETEC
swear by them as the best outboard engine ever built.

Even so, they've got their work cut out getting the market back from
Yamaha. The most well known long time OMC dealer here doesn't sell new
motors at all anymore. They keep the shop doors open by maintaining
everybody's old 2 strokes. They've got a loyal customer base.
Most people here don't even know we have an Etech dealer. The store is
new and known more for selling jet skis, four wheelers, and bicycles.
I think the old OMC dealer could do a much better job at competing
with the Yamaha dealers. I'm not sure how it ended up like this. But
frankly, everything is still topsy turvy around here after Katrina.
It's a different world here.
It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out though.

Rick



Yamaha's may be hurting soon also. Was just down in Costa Rica and talking
to the owner of Jungle Tom's tours. He supplies the boat transport for a
different tour companies, as well as observation of the boats in Tortuguero
area. All travel via boat of planes, as no roads. Suzuki seems to be the
ruling motor now. The Johnson's on the boats are 115-140 hp models and the
captain said they are Suzuki powerheads. Cheaper than Yamaha's to purchase
and run as well. Asked him about Etec's. A few around. Statements by both
J. Tom and Elvin my Tarpon guide. Too noisy and reliability is bad. Said
you will see a lot of the boats with twins will have one Etec up as it is
dead. Also said Etec will never be a big brand until it is like a Hyundai.
Parts readily available and reasonably priced. Etec injector is about a $1k
each. Will psot in another thread a trip report.