Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
ones.
So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....

http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

ellis gibb wrote:
Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
ones.
So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....

http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld

I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. $3000 in
damages. "Bumper" and tail light assembly. $655 in parts, the rest in
labor. But i digress . . .

I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. I hadn't considered a hybrid when
I bought my car. I would not consider anything else now.

What a wonderful car.

Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 9, 9:35�am, Jim wrote:
ellis gibb wrote:
Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
ones.
So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....

http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld

I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. �$3000 in
damages. �"Bumper" and tail light assembly. �$655 in parts, the rest in
� labor. �But i digress . . .

I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. �I hadn't considered a hybrid when
I bought my car. �I would not consider anything else now.

What a wonderful car.

Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We've had a Lexus 400H for two years now.

Spectacular technology, but most of the benefit from a fuel economy
standpoint is realized around town. (Where my wide does most of her
driving, so that's OK). The unappreciated upside; when you hit the
throttle hard the thing runs like a raped ape. Much, much, better
acceleration than the standard V6 (which we test drove in the
Highlander package).

Real life economy is probably about 8 mpg better than straight gas in
town and 4-5 better than straight gas on the highway. We usually
achieve about 24 mpg real life average, with most of that in stop and
start city traffic. Not bad for a medium size, comfortable vehicle.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

Chuck Gould wrote:

On Feb 9, 9:35�am, Jim wrote:

ellis gibb wrote:

Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
ones.
So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....

http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld

I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. �$3000 in
damages. �"Bumper" and tail light assembly. �$655 in parts, the rest in
� labor. �But i digress . . .

I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. �I hadn't considered a hybrid when
I bought my car. �I would not consider anything else now.

What a wonderful car.

Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


We've had a Lexus 400H for two years now.

Spectacular technology, but most of the benefit from a fuel economy
standpoint is realized around town. (Where my wide does most of her
driving, so that's OK).

Uh, Chuck...your "wide"?

Let's hope she doesn't read the NG...;-)

DT

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 11, 1:48*pm, "JimH" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...
On Feb 9, 9:35?am, Jim wrote:





ellis gibb wrote:
Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
ones.
So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....

http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld

I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. ?$3000 in
damages. ?"Bumper" and tail light assembly. ?$655 in parts, the rest in
? labor. ?But i digress . . .

I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. ?I hadn't considered a hybrid when
I bought my car. ?I would not consider anything else now.

What a wonderful car.

Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the
read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We've had a Lexus 400H for two years now.

Spectacular technology, but most of the benefit from a fuel economy
standpoint is realized around town. (Where my wide does most of her
driving, so that's OK). The unappreciated upside; when you hit the
throttle hard the thing runs like a raped ape. Much, much, better
acceleration than the standard V6 (which we test drove in the
Highlander package).

Real life economy is probably about 8 mpg better than straight gas in
town and 4-5 better than straight gas on the highway. We usually
achieve about 24 mpg real life average, with most of that in stop and
start city traffic. Not bad for a medium size, comfortable vehicle.
===========================

Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
owning one.

It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

Your understanding is bull**** then.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:48:38 -0500, "JimH" wrote:


"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
On Feb 9, 9:35?am, Jim wrote:
ellis gibb wrote:
Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
ones.
So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....

http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld

I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. ?$3000 in
damages. ?"Bumper" and tail light assembly. ?$655 in parts, the rest in
? labor. ?But i digress . . .

I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. ?I hadn't considered a hybrid when
I bought my car. ?I would not consider anything else now.

What a wonderful car.

Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the
read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We've had a Lexus 400H for two years now.

Spectacular technology, but most of the benefit from a fuel economy
standpoint is realized around town. (Where my wide does most of her
driving, so that's OK). The unappreciated upside; when you hit the
throttle hard the thing runs like a raped ape. Much, much, better
acceleration than the standard V6 (which we test drove in the
Highlander package).

Real life economy is probably about 8 mpg better than straight gas in
town and 4-5 better than straight gas on the highway. We usually
achieve about 24 mpg real life average, with most of that in stop and
start city traffic. Not bad for a medium size, comfortable vehicle.
===========================

Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
owning one.

It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

Until technology improves they are just a trendy thing to buy with no real
impact on operational savings vs initial cost or gross energy consumption
from cradle to grave.


Envy's a bitch, ain't it?
--
John H

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

JimH wrote:
..

Real life economy is probably about 8 mpg better than straight gas in
town and 4-5 better than straight gas on the highway. We usually
achieve about 24 mpg real life average, with most of that in stop and
start city traffic. Not bad for a medium size, comfortable vehicle.
===========================

Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
owning one.

What is the problem with saying "I want to proclaim to the world I am
for new techlogy that will help conserve energy" even if you will not
recoup your initial investment?

JimH, you always seem to be jealous of the toys of others.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. It was BS.

I am not saying that people shouldn't drive Hummers - I am a Prius
owner that also drives a American made "crossover vehicle" that
typically gets less than 20mpg. You want to drive a Hummer? Fine
with me! I can't tow a boat with my Prius.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

Curtis CCR wrote:
It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. It was BS.

JimH and silly go hand in hand. While the actually financial pay back
on a hybrid will vary based upon the number of miles driven, the federal
and state tax credits allowed, possible lower insurance rates based upon
your carrier. The key to finding ways to lower our dependence on
foreign oil and utilizing alternative energy sources are by trying
numerous alternatives in the real world.

JimH's real problem is that Chuck drives a Lexus, he is jealous of
other's success.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 11, 10:48 am, "JimH" wrote:

Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
owning one.

The price of cars like the Prius are becoming more competitive. The
chef at my daughter's school just purchased an 08 for a few bucks less
than I paid for my 06. When the rush was on for them a year and a
half to two years ago, there were significant tax credits, carpool
lane access stickers (in some states), and $3 gas was freaking people
out.

Even at $3 a gallon, the "average driver," someone that drives less
than 20K miles a year, would be hardpressed to recoup the price
difference in gas savings alone in less than 5 or 6 years.

I bought my Prius to replace a Hyundai Sonata when my employment put
me on the road a lot - I put 40K miles on my Prius the first year I
had it with an average fuel economy of 52 mpg. That is twice what the
Sonata got on the highway. At $3 a gallon, this was over $2000 in gas
cost savings in one year. And I was getting... 48¢ a mile from my
employer which I calculated was covering 100% of my ownership costs
for that first year.

What took me to look at the Prius and Honda Civic hybrids was the
carpool lane stickers. They were the only two hybrids that qualified
for them at the time. I was driving driving between Sacramento,
Berkeley and Palo Alto two to three times a week. Being able to use
the HOV lanes was giving me back 3 to 6 hours a week - Time my
employer probably wished I put into productive business time, but I
usually used in the evenings with my wife and 3-year-old daughter.

I didn't get the entire tax credit (over $3000) due to my income and a
couple of other credits I was taking, but it was still about $1600 off
my 2006 tax bill.

All in all, I have no regrets over buying a Prius and found it to be
cost effective based on my driving needs.

I will say that the 60mpg city claim is bunk. What city that it, I
don't know. I had one trip of about 150 miles where I got 62mpg, but
that included hours of grinding slow freeway commuting - stop and go
at speeds under 30mph. Like the EPA rating actually showed on the
Civic hybrid, my Prius gets 48 to 53 mpg whether in town or on the
highway.

Outside of great fuel efficiency, the Prius just a compact car.
Nothing special about the handling. It is not near as quiet on the
highway as our Chrysler. I picked the Prius over the Honda because of
utility; the Prius' hatchback and fold down rear seat provides a lot
more cargo flexibility. And the Prius accelerates better than the
Civic - at least I felt Prius out performed the Civic on test drives.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

Curtis CCR wrote:
On Feb 11, 10:48 am, "JimH" wrote:

Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
owning one.

The price of cars like the Prius are becoming more competitive. The
chef at my daughter's school just purchased an 08 for a few bucks less
than I paid for my 06.

I liked to know what school you daughter goes to. We only had lunchroom
ladies, no chef's allowed.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 11, 5:12*pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is Here
wrote:
Curtis CCR wrote:
On Feb 11, 10:48 am, "JimH" wrote:

Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
owning one.

The price of cars like the Prius are becoming more competitive. *The
chef at my daughter's school just purchased an 08 for a few bucks less
than I paid for my 06. *

I liked to know what school you daughter goes to. *We only had lunchroom
ladies, no chef's allowed.

Holy crap, the lunch line at my school used to be like that, although
I did like the food.. Anyway, now my kid has windows to go to, there
is usually a salad window, a pasta window, a sammich window, at times
a taco window, a pizza window, a gyro window, etc, and a desert and
fruit window.. Each window has several things to choose from.. most
pretty healthy when taken in the right combinations... it is frekin'
amazing..

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 11, 2:26 pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is Here
wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 11, 5:12 pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is Here
wrote:
Curtis CCR wrote:
On Feb 11, 10:48 am, "JimH" wrote:
Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
owning one.
The price of cars like the Prius are becoming more competitive. The
chef at my daughter's school just purchased an 08 for a few bucks less
than I paid for my 06.
I liked to know what school you daughter goes to. We only had lunchroom
ladies, no chef's allowed.

Holy crap, the lunch line at my school used to be like that, although
I did like the food.. Anyway, now my kid has windows to go to, there
is usually a salad window, a pasta window, a sammich window, at times
a taco window, a pizza window, a gyro window, etc, and a desert and
fruit window.. Each window has several things to choose from.. most
pretty healthy when taken in the right combinations... it is frekin'
amazing..

What, NO SUSHI !!!!!

Maybe in Berkeley - if they keep their government subsidies after
dissing the Marines! Excerpted from an oped piece at

"One earmark provides gourmet organic lunches to schools in the
Berkeley School District. While our Marines are making due with MREs
of Sloppy Joe and Chili with Beans, the organization Chez Panisse is
getting federal tax dollars to design meals that promote
"environmental harmony." Chez Panisse's menu features "Comté cheese
soufflé with mâche salad," "Meyer lemon éclairs with huckleberry
coulis" and "Chicory salad with creamy anchovy vinaigrette and olive
toast."

"Are we to understand that the city that has been home to many of the
country's most rich and famous cannot afford to pay for its own
designer school lunches?"

The guy at my daughter's Montessori school (here is Sacramento) is a
trained chef. He works at a restaurant too. Cooks just cook, the chef
creates menus and recipes. Granted this is a little kids school - His
job is to make the pizza as healthy as possible, etc. They have a
"cook" that schleps the food around to the classrooms and measures out
the pretzels. :)

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

wrote:
On Feb 11, 1:48 pm, "JimH" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...
On Feb 9, 9:35?am, Jim wrote:





ellis gibb wrote:
Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
ones.
So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....
http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld
I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. ?$3000 in
damages. ?"Bumper" and tail light assembly. ?$655 in parts, the rest in
? labor. ?But i digress . . .
I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. ?I hadn't considered a hybrid when
I bought my car. ?I would not consider anything else now.
What a wonderful car.
Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the
read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
We've had a Lexus 400H for two years now.

Spectacular technology, but most of the benefit from a fuel economy
standpoint is realized around town. (Where my wide does most of her
driving, so that's OK). The unappreciated upside; when you hit the
throttle hard the thing runs like a raped ape. Much, much, better
acceleration than the standard V6 (which we test drove in the
Highlander package).

Real life economy is probably about 8 mpg better than straight gas in
town and 4-5 better than straight gas on the highway. We usually
achieve about 24 mpg real life average, with most of that in stop and
start city traffic. Not bad for a medium size, comfortable vehicle.
===========================

Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
owning one.

It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

Your understanding is bull**** then.


What is the cost of producing a hybrid's battery?

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

Curtis CCR wrote:
It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. It was BS.

Where do the chemicals that comprise the battery cells some from and how
do they get into the battery cell? What is the effect, cost, of the
mining of the component chemicals? What is the effect, cost, of the
materials used and needing disposal during the battery manufacturing
process?

I am not saying that people shouldn't drive Hummers - I am a Prius
owner that also drives a American made "crossover vehicle" that
typically gets less than 20mpg. You want to drive a Hummer? Fine
with me! I can't tow a boat with my Prius.

What is the cost of a new battery pack for your Prius?

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 11, 4:49 pm, BAR wrote:
Curtis CCR wrote:
It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. It was BS.

Where do the chemicals that comprise the battery cells some from and how
do they get into the battery cell? What is the effect, cost, of the
mining of the component chemicals? What is the effect, cost, of the
materials used and needing disposal during the battery manufacturing
process?

I don't know, but batteries are recyclable. There are NiMH batteries,
the kind that have been used in portable electronics devices for
years. Likewise NiCad has been around for decades and are used in
large applications. I want to know who is paying the $300,000 in
total cost for my Prius. I'd like to thank them.



I am not saying that people shouldn't drive Hummers - I am a Prius
owner that also drives a American made "crossover vehicle" that
typically gets less than 20mpg. You want to drive a Hummer? Fine
with me! I can't tow a boat with my Prius.

What is the cost of a new battery pack for your Prius?

I honestly don't know. There are 20something individual cells that
make of the battery string and I have never heard of anyone having to
replace them all. Since in CA they are warranted for 150,000 miles it
is not a common customer paid repair.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 11, 2:04�pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is

JimH's real problem is that Chuck drives a Lexus, he is jealous of
other's success.

Actually, Chuck's *wife* drives the Lexus. :-)

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 11, 2:04�pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is
JimH's real problem is that Chuck drives a Lexus, he is jealous of
other's success.

Actually, Chuck's *wife* drives the Lexus. :-)





Well then if I was you, I would be jealous of my wife's Lexus. ;)

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

Curtis CCR wrote:
On Feb 11, 4:49 pm, BAR wrote:
Curtis CCR wrote:
It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.
You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. It was BS.
Where do the chemicals that comprise the battery cells some from and how
do they get into the battery cell? What is the effect, cost, of the
mining of the component chemicals? What is the effect, cost, of the
materials used and needing disposal during the battery manufacturing
process?

I don't know, but batteries are recyclable. There are NiMH batteries,
the kind that have been used in portable electronics devices for
years. Likewise NiCad has been around for decades and are used in
large applications. I want to know who is paying the $300,000 in
total cost for my Prius. I'd like to thank them.

What is the cost to recover the metals and chemicals in the NiMH and
LION batteries? The wife and I were watching a show on the history
channel last night and she was furiously writing down the names of
companys that did the metal polishing and metals reclamation. She said
that she had recently given 250 cells to an recycler and that there was
about $200K of platinum that could have been reclaimed. I asked her how
much they charge to reclaim the platinum and she replied that they would
see about $40K back. So, it is possible to reclaim the metals. And, the
chemicals are all but worn out by the time the cells are sent out for
recycling.

Your kids and grandkids would like to have the $300K for some other things.

I am not saying that people shouldn't drive Hummers - I am a Prius
owner that also drives a American made "crossover vehicle" that
typically gets less than 20mpg. You want to drive a Hummer? Fine
with me! I can't tow a boat with my Prius.
What is the cost of a new battery pack for your Prius?

I honestly don't know. There are 20something individual cells that
make of the battery string and I have never heard of anyone having to
replace them all. Since in CA they are warranted for 150,000 miles it
is not a common customer paid repair.

Does the warranty transfer from the original owners to the second
owners? If not the resale value is about zero.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 11, 5:18*pm, wrote:
On Feb 11, 5:12*pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is Here

wrote:
Curtis CCR wrote:
On Feb 11, 10:48 am, "JimH" wrote:

Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
owning one.

The price of cars like the Prius are becoming more competitive. *The
chef at my daughter's school just purchased an 08 for a few bucks less
than I paid for my 06. *

I liked to know what school you daughter goes to. *We only had lunchroom
ladies, no chef's allowed.

Holy crap, the lunch line at my school used to be like that, although
I did like the food.. Anyway, now my kid has windows to go to, there
is usually a salad window, a pasta window, a sammich window, at times
a taco window, a pizza window, a gyro window, etc, and a desert and
fruit window.. Each window has several things to choose from.. most
pretty healthy when taken in the right combinations... it is frekin'
amazing..

Yep, when I was in school you got what you got, although like you, I
really liked the food! I go eat with my son and daughter sometimes and
am amazed at the selection! And adults can go eat with their kids for
$2.00 and it's good stuff!

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 11, 7:45*pm, BAR wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 11, 1:48 pm, "JimH" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...
On Feb 9, 9:35?am, Jim wrote:

ellis gibb wrote:
Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
ones.
So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....
http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld
I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. ?$3000 in
damages. ?"Bumper" and tail light assembly. ?$655 in parts, the rest in
? labor. ?But i digress . . .
I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. ?I hadn't considered a hybrid when
I bought my car. ?I would not consider anything else now.
What a wonderful car.
Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the
read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius-Hidequoted text -
- Show quoted text -
We've had a Lexus 400H for two years now.

Spectacular technology, but most of the benefit from a fuel economy
standpoint is realized around town. (Where my wide does most of her
driving, so that's OK). The unappreciated upside; when you hit the
throttle hard the thing runs like a raped ape. Much, much, better
acceleration than the standard V6 (which we test drove in the
Highlander package).

Real life economy is probably about 8 mpg better than straight gas in
town and 4-5 better than straight gas on the highway. We usually
achieve about 24 mpg real life average, with most of that in stop and
start city traffic. Not bad for a medium size, comfortable vehicle.
===========================

Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
owning one.

It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

Your understanding is bull**** then.

What is the cost of producing a hybrid's battery?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What does that have to do with the amount of energy producing a hybrid
uses as opposed to a conventional vehicle?

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 12, 4:58 am, BAR wrote:
Curtis CCR wrote:

What is the cost of a new battery pack for your Prius?

I honestly don't know. There are 20something individual cells that
make of the battery string and I have never heard of anyone having to
replace them all. Since in CA they are warranted for 150,000 miles it
is not a common customer paid repair.

Does the warranty transfer from the original owners to the second
owners? If not the resale value is about zero.

Yes. In California the batteries are considered part of the emissions
systems. This is a state required warranty and it's transferable.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 11, 4:49�pm, BAR wrote:
Curtis CCR wrote:
It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. �It was BS.

Where do the chemicals that comprise the battery cells some from and how
do they get into the battery cell? What is the effect, cost, of the
mining of the component chemicals? What is the effect, cost, of the
materials used and needing disposal during the battery manufacturing
process?

I am not saying that people shouldn't drive Hummers - I am a Prius
owner that also drives a American made "crossover vehicle" that
typically gets less than 20mpg. �You want to drive a Hummer? �Fine
with me! �I can't tow a boat with my Prius.

What is the cost of a new battery pack for your Prius?

What is the total "cost" of a gallon of gas refined from mid-East oil?

Add in the billions per month spent occupying a country so we can keep
our military assets within easy striking range of any Arab states that
might dare "terrorize" America by curtailing the export of oil. As
there were no WMD to elminate and it now appears that the majority of
the population is more interested in a religious dictatorship than a
secular deomcracy (if only they could agree on which particular
competing branch of Islam would do the dictating), there is no reason
other than securing or maintaining a flow of mid-East crude for us to
remain in Iraq.

Every mile my (wife's) car drives that isn't fueled by Arab oil is one
more reason to bring our troops home and helps establish American
energy independence. Until we can tell the Saudis, etc, to go and
perform an act that is biologically impossible we will be subject to
the threat of a disruption in our economic lifeline and cannot
realistically
pull our military out of harm's way.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:14:57 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Feb 11, 4:49?pm, BAR wrote:
Curtis CCR wrote:
It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. ?It was BS.

Where do the chemicals that comprise the battery cells some from and how
do they get into the battery cell? What is the effect, cost, of the
mining of the component chemicals? What is the effect, cost, of the
materials used and needing disposal during the battery manufacturing
process?

I am not saying that people shouldn't drive Hummers - I am a Prius
owner that also drives a American made "crossover vehicle" that
typically gets less than 20mpg. ?You want to drive a Hummer? ?Fine
with me! ?I can't tow a boat with my Prius.

What is the cost of a new battery pack for your Prius?

What is the total "cost" of a gallon of gas refined from mid-East oil?

Add in the billions per month spent occupying a country so we can keep
our military assets within easy striking range of any Arab states that
might dare "terrorize" America by curtailing the export of oil. As
there were no WMD to elminate and it now appears that the majority of
the population is more interested in a religious dictatorship than a
secular deomcracy (if only they could agree on which particular
competing branch of Islam would do the dictating), there is no reason
other than securing or maintaining a flow of mid-East crude for us to
remain in Iraq.


Chuck, do you think it would be a lot cheaper if Iran controlled all of it?
Is securing and maintaining a flow of Mid-East crude not in our national
interests?

Every mile my (wife's) car drives that isn't fueled by Arab oil is one
more reason to bring our troops home and helps establish American
energy independence. Until we can tell the Saudis, etc, to go and
perform an act that is biologically impossible we will be subject to
the threat of a disruption in our economic lifeline and cannot
realistically
pull our military out of harm's way.


How much of the fuel used by your wife is not Arab derived?

Note: If you and your wife like the Prius, then that's what you should be
driving. I've a friend who drives one, and he and his wife love it. If it
would tow a boat, I might have considered one myself.
--
John H

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 18, 4:41�pm, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:14:57 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Feb 11, 4:49?pm, BAR wrote:
Curtis CCR wrote:
It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. ?It was BS.

Where do the chemicals that comprise the battery cells some from and how
do they get into the battery cell? What is the effect, cost, of the
mining of the component chemicals? What is the effect, cost, of the
materials used and needing disposal during the battery manufacturing
process?

I am not saying that people shouldn't drive Hummers - I am a Prius
owner that also drives a American made "crossover vehicle" that
typically gets less than 20mpg. ?You want to drive a Hummer? ?Fine
with me! ?I can't tow a boat with my Prius.

What is the cost of a new battery pack for your Prius?

What is the total "cost" of a gallon of gas refined from mid-East oil?

Add in the billions per month spent occupying a country so we can keep
our military assets within easy striking range of any Arab states that
might dare "terrorize" America by curtailing the export of oil. As
there were no WMD to elminate and it now appears that the majority of
the population is more interested in a religious dictatorship than a
secular deomcracy (if only they could agree on which particular
competing branch of Islam would do the dictating), there is no reason
other than securing or maintaining a flow of mid-East crude for us to
remain in Iraq.

Chuck, do you think it would be a lot cheaper if Iran controlled all of it?
Is securing and maintaining a flow of Mid-East crude not in our national
interests?



Our ultimate national interest would be served by breaking the yoke of
the mideast oil sheiks.

And no, digging up ANWR for the approximately 90-day supply of
"American" crude oil contained there is not the solution.

It has not been in the vested interest of companies who milk some
extremely profitable economic cows for this country to move toward
realistic energy independence. With $40 billion profits reported by
Exxon alone, the companies have more than enough $$$ to rent every
Democrat and Republican in congress and assure that no meaningful
energy reform will ever occur.

Figure out a way to let Exxon, Mobil, etc create a profitable monopoly
on alternative energy sources and in five years we wouldn't need a
drop of Arab oil. As there isn't a realistic way for BIGOIL to
monopolize alternative energy in the same manner that it has long
enjoyed oligarchy over the nation's oil supply, the best "business"
solution is to ensure that the economy will remain largely dependent
upon the product that BIGOIL does control.



Every mile my (wife's) car drives that isn't fueled by Arab oil is one
more reason to bring our troops home and helps establish American
energy independence. Until we can tell the Saudis, etc, to go and
perform an act that is biologically impossible we will be subject to
the threat of a disruption in our economic lifeline and cannot
realistically
pull our military out of harm's way.

How much of the fuel used by your wife is not Arab derived?

Note: If you and your wife like the Prius, then that's what you should be
driving. I've a friend who drives one, and he and his wife love it. If it
would tow a boat, I might have considered one myself.

My wife already drives a hybrid, but it's not a Prius. If I didn't
have to haul 600 pounds of magazines around a couple of times per
month I would own something more economical and greener than my Volvo
V40.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:19:56 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Feb 18, 4:41?pm, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:14:57 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Feb 11, 4:49?pm, BAR wrote:
Curtis CCR wrote:
It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. ?It was BS.

Where do the chemicals that comprise the battery cells some from and how
do they get into the battery cell? What is the effect, cost, of the
mining of the component chemicals? What is the effect, cost, of the
materials used and needing disposal during the battery manufacturing
process?

I am not saying that people shouldn't drive Hummers - I am a Prius
owner that also drives a American made "crossover vehicle" that
typically gets less than 20mpg. ?You want to drive a Hummer? ?Fine
with me! ?I can't tow a boat with my Prius.

What is the cost of a new battery pack for your Prius?

What is the total "cost" of a gallon of gas refined from mid-East oil?

Add in the billions per month spent occupying a country so we can keep
our military assets within easy striking range of any Arab states that
might dare "terrorize" America by curtailing the export of oil. As
there were no WMD to elminate and it now appears that the majority of
the population is more interested in a religious dictatorship than a
secular deomcracy (if only they could agree on which particular
competing branch of Islam would do the dictating), there is no reason
other than securing or maintaining a flow of mid-East crude for us to
remain in Iraq.

Chuck, do you think it would be a lot cheaper if Iran controlled all of it?
Is securing and maintaining a flow of Mid-East crude not in our national
interests?



Our ultimate national interest would be served by breaking the yoke of
the mideast oil sheiks.

True, but it didn't answer the question.

And no, digging up ANWR for the approximately 90-day supply of
"American" crude oil contained there is not the solution.

Also true, if the supply is only 90 days. But, it didn't answer the
question.

It has not been in the vested interest of companies who milk some
extremely profitable economic cows for this country to move toward
realistic energy independence. With $40 billion profits reported by
Exxon alone, the companies have more than enough $$$ to rent every
Democrat and Republican in congress and assure that no meaningful
energy reform will ever occur.

Could be true. Just remember that those profits are shared by folks like
you and I and millions of others who have retirement accounts, mutual
funds, etc.

And, it still didn't answer the question.

Figure out a way to let Exxon, Mobil, etc create a profitable monopoly
on alternative energy sources and in five years we wouldn't need a
drop of Arab oil. As there isn't a realistic way for BIGOIL to
monopolize alternative energy in the same manner that it has long
enjoyed oligarchy over the nation's oil supply, the best "business"
solution is to ensure that the economy will remain largely dependent
upon the product that BIGOIL does control.


As Exxon, Mobil, etc. are publicly owned companies, you have a lot of folks
to convince that the profits should be greatly reduced.

But, you've still not answered the question.


Every mile my (wife's) car drives that isn't fueled by Arab oil is one
more reason to bring our troops home and helps establish American
energy independence. Until we can tell the Saudis, etc, to go and
perform an act that is biologically impossible we will be subject to
the threat of a disruption in our economic lifeline and cannot
realistically
pull our military out of harm's way.

How much of the fuel used by your wife is not Arab derived?

Another question not answered.

Note: If you and your wife like the Prius, then that's what you should be
driving. I've a friend who drives one, and he and his wife love it. If it
would tow a boat, I might have considered one myself.

My wife already drives a hybrid, but it's not a Prius. If I didn't
have to haul 600 pounds of magazines around a couple of times per
month I would own something more economical and greener than my Volvo
V40.

Don't know where I got the Prius idea. Whatever she drives, if she enjoys
it, then she should be driving it.

Now, you've said a whole lot of words. But none of them answered the simple
questions you raised with your initial comments about military assets in
the Mid-East.
--
John H

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 18, 6:38�pm, John H. wrote:


Now, you've said a whole lot of words. But none of them answered the simple
questions you raised with your initial comments about military assets in
the Mid-East.

I'll be more obvious. We shouldn't have to *care* whether Iran
controls all of the oil in the middle East.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 18, 6:38�pm, John H. wrote:

Now, you've said a whole lot of words. But none of them answered the simple
questions you raised with your initial comments about military assets in
the Mid-East.

I'll be more obvious. We shouldn't have to *care* whether Iran
controls all of the oil in the middle East.


We shouldn't have to care but, Iran cares who controls the oil in the
middle East. And, they want to control all of the oil in the middle
East. If the middle east didn't have any oil nobody would care what they
did.

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:55:00 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Feb 18, 6:38?pm, John H. wrote:


Now, you've said a whole lot of words. But none of them answered the simple
questions you raised with your initial comments about military assets in
the Mid-East.

I'll be more obvious. We shouldn't have to *care* whether Iran
controls all of the oil in the middle East.

But since we *do* have to care....

Would you just adopt the liberal position that we should bring all our
troops home from the mid-east and everyone will be nice to us?
--
John H

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

On Feb 19, 5:04�am, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:55:00 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
On Feb 18, 6:38?pm, John H. wrote:

Now, you've said a whole lot of words. But none of them answered the simple
questions you raised with your initial comments about military assets in
the Mid-East.

I'll be more obvious. We shouldn't have to *care* whether Iran
controls all of the oil in the middle East.

But since we *do* have to care....

Would you just adopt the liberal position that we should bring all our
troops home from the mid-east and everyone will be nice to us?
--
John H

My point is, and has been, that we allow ourselves to be in a position
of "having to care" because we lack the courage to establish energy
independence and because the corporate oxen of some *huge*
contributors to politicians on both sides of the aisle will be badly
gored if we do.

As evidence that we are politically invested in remaining oil vassals
of the mideast sheiks, I offer Ann Coulter's recent remarks about
electric cars:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02...electric-cars/

Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 19, 5:04�am, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:55:00 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
On Feb 18, 6:38?pm, John H. wrote:
Now, you've said a whole lot of words. But none of them answered the simple
questions you raised with your initial comments about military assets in
the Mid-East.
I'll be more obvious. We shouldn't have to *care* whether Iran
controls all of the oil in the middle East.
But since we *do* have to care....

Would you just adopt the liberal position that we should bring all our
troops home from the mid-east and everyone will be nice to us?
--
John H

My point is, and has been, that we allow ourselves to be in a position
of "having to care" because we lack the courage to establish energy
independence and because the corporate oxen of some *huge*
contributors to politicians on both sides of the aisle will be badly
gored if we do.

As evidence that we are politically invested in remaining oil vassals
of the mideast sheiks, I offer Ann Coulter's recent remarks about
electric cars:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02...electric-cars/


Oi! Ann Coulter. The permanent answer to the question, "How low can you go?"