Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

Five days into the show, and extremely reliable sources from three of
the upper end boat dealers at the indoor show report some encouraging
news.

Recession? Fuggetaboutit, at least in some economic classes.

One Brunswick division representing yachts between the mid 30 foot to
just under 60 foot size range:

"Sales are most definitely up from last year. No question."

Another Brusnwick division representing boats and yachts traditionally
considered very high quality: "Sold" signs on 2/3 of their large
display as of Tuesday PM. I double checked to make sure all were
legitimate, and a reliable source assured me that they were.

One dealer is showing a 55-foot luxury yacht. Two sold, closed, and
already financed. A couple still going through the financing process.
Several "good leads". He's very pleased, to say the least.

If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.

I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.

I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.

True dat but, maybe they won't have to lay off the guy/gal building
the seat cushions in the galley. Maybe he/she can afford to buy
that skiff....... since they won't be out looking for another job.

Das good news indeed.

db

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

JimH wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
Five days into the show, and extremely reliable sources from three of
the upper end boat dealers at the indoor show report some encouraging
news.

Recession? Fuggetaboutit, at least in some economic classes.


snip

If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.

Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. We even have a member or two here who
hope we do and continue to delight on bad economic news. A shame.




Recessions tend to impact most those who work for a living at employment
that provides a middle class or less income. The rich aren't much
affected. As Chuck pointed out.

I am in favor of anything that turns the White House over to the
Democrats in the fall.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

JimH wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
Five days into the show, and extremely reliable sources from three of
the upper end boat dealers at the indoor show report some encouraging
news.

Recession? Fuggetaboutit, at least in some economic classes.


snip

If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.
Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. We even have a member or two here
who hope we do and continue to delight on bad economic news. A shame.




I am in favor of anything that turns the White House over to the Democrats
in the fall.


The fact that you and your comrades put the push for political power at the
cost of the economic health of the Country is pathetic Harry.




The economic health of this country is lousy, and it has nothing to do
with me or my preferred political party. It is GEORGE W. BUSH who has
been the head of state for the past seven years, and if the country has
pursued the wrong economic policies, run up the wrong sorts of deficits,
funded the wrong sort of war, and borrowed too much $$$ abroad, blame him.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 9:42*am, "JimH" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

... Five days into the show, and extremely reliable sources from three of
the upper end boat dealers at the indoor show report some encouraging
news.

Recession? Fuggetaboutit, at least in some economic classes.

snip

If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.

Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. * We even have a member or two here who
hope we do and continue to delight on bad economic news. * A shame.

They are probably shorting us, the way Billary did with all the pharma
stocks right before dumping her last "health care initiative". She
repotedly made a lot of money on that one. and she drove it up, then
down almost single handedly by pushing her fake plan...

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 9:50*am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in messagenews:kqm0q3564msbfq657ci5gethlbjnej3gls@4ax .com...

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.

I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.

True dat but, maybe they won't have to lay off the guy/gal *building
the seat cushions in the galley. *Maybe he/she can afford to buy
that skiff....... since they won't be out looking for another job.

Das good news indeed.

db

Indeed...;) And that is exactly the guy I am planning on putting back
on the water, much to the shegrin of Harry and the other rich bottle
boaters.;)

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 10:08*am, HK wrote:
JimH wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
....
Five days into the show, and extremely reliable sources from three of
the upper end boat dealers at the indoor show report some encouraging
news.

Recession? Fuggetaboutit, at least in some economic classes.

snip

If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.
Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. * We even have a member or two here
who hope we do and continue to delight on bad economic news. * A shame.

I am in favor of anything that turns the White House over to the Democrats
in the fall.

The fact that you and your comrades put the push for political power at the
cost of the economic health of the Country is pathetic Harry.

The economic health of this country is lousy,

Right there is where you lose most thinking folks, Doubt many read
the rest of your paragraph, for better or worse, most here are
interested in honest debate...;) Oh, yeah, based on facts, not evil
wishes for my our country...

and it has nothing to do
with me or my preferred political party. It is GEORGE W. BUSH who has
been the head of state for the past seven years, and if the country has
pursued the wrong economic policies, run up the wrong sorts of deficits,
funded the wrong sort of war, and borrowed too much $$$ abroad, blame him.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 10:15*am, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Jan 30, 9:50 am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in messagenews:kqm0q3564msbfq657ci5gethlbjnej3gls@4ax .com...

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:
If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.
I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.
True dat but, maybe they won't have to lay off the guy/gal *building
the seat cushions in the galley. *Maybe he/she can afford to buy
that skiff....... since they won't be out looking for another job.

Das good news indeed.

db

Indeed...;) And that is exactly the guy I am planning on putting back
on the water, much to the shegrin of Harry and the other rich bottle
boaters.;)

See, now there is yet another example of your ignorance. *I* am the one
here who has been railing against the "yachties," their overblown boats,
their wasting of petrol, and the need for huge surtaxes on the amounts
of fuel they burn.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I know... but it's still fun... ok take your name out of the
paragraph, and read it agian without the dig at you;)

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 3:11�am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.

I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.

Absolutely. I will do a little informal polling among some of my
contacts selling aluminum fihsing boats, etc and see if the market is
as strong in that sector.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 6:42�am, "JimH" wrote:

Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. �

Bad news outsells good news.

Some might think, "They're trying to throw the election to the D's!"

I disagree. They just want to create enough uncertainty in the market
that more folks will tune in every day to "see how bad things are
getting", thereby increasing ratings and creating some justification
for raising ad rates.

Also, the companies that survive economic downturn often do so by
*increasing* their advertising, particularly for consumer goods.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 6:42�am, "JimH" wrote:

Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. �

Bad news outsells good news.

Some might think, "They're trying to throw the election to the D's!"

I disagree. They just want to create enough uncertainty in the market
that more folks will tune in every day to "see how bad things are
getting", thereby increasing ratings and creating some justification
for raising ad rates.

Also, the companies that survive economic downturn often do so by
*increasing* their advertising, particularly for consumer goods.


You can't be serious. Either that, or you are totally disconnected from
the harsh reality facing many millions of your fellow citizens who are
jobless, homeless, losing their homes, health-insurance-less, and
without much hope for the future.

How are social services doing in Seattle these days? Still pretty
miserable for those in need?

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:39:05 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Jan 30, 3:11?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.

I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.

Absolutely. I will do a little informal polling among some of my
contacts selling aluminum fihsing boats, etc and see if the market is
as strong in that sector.

I'll be interesting comparing the results from Boston and Hartford to
yours.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 10:18*am, wrote:
On Jan 30, 10:15*am, HK wrote:





wrote:
On Jan 30, 9:50 am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in messagenews:kqm0q3564msbfq657ci5gethlbjnej3gls@4ax .com...

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:
If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.
I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.
True dat but, maybe they won't have to lay off the guy/gal *building
the seat cushions in the galley. *Maybe he/she can afford to buy
that skiff....... since they won't be out looking for another job.

Das good news indeed.

db

Indeed...;) And that is exactly the guy I am planning on putting back
on the water, much to the shegrin of Harry and the other rich bottle
boaters.;)

See, now there is yet another example of your ignorance. *I* am the one
here who has been railing against the "yachties," their overblown boats,
their wasting of petrol, and the need for huge surtaxes on the amounts
of fuel they burn.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I know... but it's still fun... *ok take your name out of the
paragraph, and read it agian without the dig at you;)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I wonder what the burn rate is for that lobster boat? Probably take a
degree from Yale just to figure it out!

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 8:51�am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:39:05 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Jan 30, 3:11?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.

I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.

Absolutely. I will do a little informal polling among some of my
contacts selling aluminum fihsing boats, etc and see if the market is
as strong in that sector.

I'll be interesting comparing the results from Boston and Hartford to
yours.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In many ways, the Pacific North Wet is enjoying a bout of prosperity
when compared to the rest of the country. Our governor just yesterday
called for a $3-million apprenticeship program to train people for
jobs in aircraft assembly. Boeing can't find enough qualified help,
and the ripple effect from that is that wages are being driven up
throughout the region.

If we could turn off the national news, I think we'd probably have
almost boom times in this particular region.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 8:47Â*am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 6:42�am, "JimH" wrote:

Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. �

Bad news outsells good news.

Some might think, "They're trying to throw the election to the D's!"

I disagree. They just want to create enough uncertainty in the market
that more folks will tune in every day to "see how bad things are
getting", thereby increasing ratings and creating some justification
for raising ad rates.

Also, the companies that survive economic downturn often do so by
*increasing* their advertising, particularly for consumer goods.

You can't be serious. Either that, or you are totally disconnected from
the harsh reality facing many millions of your fellow citizens who are
jobless, homeless, losing their homes, health-insurance-less, and
without much hope for the future.

How are social services doing in Seattle these days? Still pretty
miserable for those in need?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

About 1-2% of the homes in the US are in, or at risk of, foreclosure.
Yet it's headline news in every paper and the subject of "specials" on
radio and TV. In some of the worst hit communities, the number is as
high as 5%, meaning that 950 out of every 1000 households in those
worst hit communities have no reason to fear losing their home to the
bank or mortgage company.

The health insurance issue has nothing to do with economic cycling.
We have had a broken health services delivery model in the country for
at least 30 years. We have had booms and busts along the way, despite
the fact that our health insurance system is designed first to make
corporations wealthy, and only then to see about making people well.

I don't really *get* joblessness, except in cases where people are
physically unable to work. It's absolutely true that people may not be
able to get work in a field where they prefer to work or where they
have developed considerable (but possibly obsolete) expertise, but
there is plenty of work available in other fields. When I opted to
drop out of the educational system, many people remarked "You will
never amount to anything in life without a college education!" I had
the pleasure of hiring a few of them over the years to work for
me. :-) Point being, accepting joblessness is accepting the role of
"victim of circumstance", and that's a load of equine excrement. Most
of us can determine, or at least materially influence, our
circumstances.

Homelessness; 30 years ago most of the chronically homeless would have
been cared for in an institution. It's tragic that we leave these
least able, very often mentally unstable, individuals to forage
through garbage cans and sleep under cardboard boxes in the rain.
There is no answer to all homelessness, but treating these addicts and
alcoholics somewhere along the way would be less expensive than
constantly sweeping up after the human train wrecks.

If I am "disconnected" from folks who are jobless, homeless, and
without hope it's because of choices I made along the way. Choices
that were available to everybody else, by the way. No privilege in my
background, at all. My heart (and no small amount of money as well as
some volunteer time) goes out to relieve what suffering I can. As
tragic as the situation may be for those on the most hopeless fringes
of society- their situations are not typical nor should they define
who and what we are as the American people.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 8:47 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 6:42�am, "JimH" wrote:
Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. �
Bad news outsells good news.
Some might think, "They're trying to throw the election to the D's!"
I disagree. They just want to create enough uncertainty in the market
that more folks will tune in every day to "see how bad things are
getting", thereby increasing ratings and creating some justification
for raising ad rates.
Also, the companies that survive economic downturn often do so by
*increasing* their advertising, particularly for consumer goods.
You can't be serious. Either that, or you are totally disconnected from
the harsh reality facing many millions of your fellow citizens who are
jobless, homeless, losing their homes, health-insurance-less, and
without much hope for the future.

How are social services doing in Seattle these days? Still pretty
miserable for those in need?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

About 1-2% of the homes in the US are in, or at risk of, foreclosure.
Yet it's headline news in every paper and the subject of "specials" on
radio and TV. In some of the worst hit communities, the number is as
high as 5%, meaning that 950 out of every 1000 households in those
worst hit communities have no reason to fear losing their home to the
bank or mortgage company.

The health insurance issue has nothing to do with economic cycling.
We have had a broken health services delivery model in the country for
at least 30 years. We have had booms and busts along the way, despite
the fact that our health insurance system is designed first to make
corporations wealthy, and only then to see about making people well.



There are somewhere between 30 and 40 million Americans living in poverty.

Sleep tight.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 1:35Â*pm, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 8:47 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 6:42�am, "JimH" wrote:
Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. �
Bad news outsells good news.
Some might think, "They're trying to throw the election to the D's!"
I disagree. They just want to create enough uncertainty in the market
that more folks will tune in every day to "see how bad things are
getting", thereby increasing ratings and creating some justification
for raising ad rates.
Also, the companies that survive economic downturn often do so by
*increasing* their advertising, particularly for consumer goods.
You can't be serious. Either that, or you are totally disconnected from
the harsh reality facing many millions of your fellow citizens who are
jobless, homeless, losing their homes, health-insurance-less, and
without much hope for the future.

How are social services doing in Seattle these days? Still pretty
miserable for those in need?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

About 1-2% of the homes in the US are in, or at risk of, foreclosure.
Yet it's headline news in every paper and the subject of "specials" on
radio and TV. In some of the worst hit communities, the number is as
high as 5%, meaning that 950 out of every 1000 households in those
worst hit communities have no reason to fear losing their home to the
bank or mortgage company.

The health insurance issue has nothing to do with economic cycling.
We have had a broken health services delivery model in the country for
at least 30 years. We have had booms and busts along the way, despite
the fact that our health insurance system is designed first to make
corporations wealthy, and only then to see about making people well.

There are somewhere between 30 and 40 million Americans living in poverty.

Sleep tight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Harry, why don't you sell your lobster boat and auction off your Yale
degree to help them out? Perhaps your Dr. wife could open up a free
clinic.....

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

JimH wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 8:47 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 6:42?am, "JimH" wrote:
Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their hardest
to
make sure we dump into a recession. ?
Bad news outsells good news.
Some might think, "They're trying to throw the election to the D's!"
I disagree. They just want to create enough uncertainty in the market
that more folks will tune in every day to "see how bad things are
getting", thereby increasing ratings and creating some justification
for raising ad rates.
Also, the companies that survive economic downturn often do so by
*increasing* their advertising, particularly for consumer goods.
You can't be serious. Either that, or you are totally disconnected from
the harsh reality facing many millions of your fellow citizens who are
jobless, homeless, losing their homes, health-insurance-less, and
without much hope for the future.

How are social services doing in Seattle these days? Still pretty
miserable for those in need?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
About 1-2% of the homes in the US are in, or at risk of, foreclosure.
Yet it's headline news in every paper and the subject of "specials" on
radio and TV. In some of the worst hit communities, the number is as
high as 5%, meaning that 950 out of every 1000 households in those
worst hit communities have no reason to fear losing their home to the
bank or mortgage company.

The health insurance issue has nothing to do with economic cycling.
We have had a broken health services delivery model in the country for
at least 30 years. We have had booms and busts along the way, despite
the fact that our health insurance system is designed first to make
corporations wealthy, and only then to see about making people well.


There are somewhere between 30 and 40 million Americans living in poverty.

Sleep tight.


What is your definition of poverty because my daughter may meet that
threshold yet she is doing fine.

How many times do you see folks paying for food with food stamps while they
wear all sorts of expensive bling and are talking on their cell phone.

I am not saying that there are not needy people........I am saying some
folks take advantage of the system.




Jim, there is all manner of anecdotal information available, including,
I am sure, stats on the number of poor people on food stamps who are
standing in line in front of you at the supermarket and using a cell phone.

For all you know, they have no household phone and scraped to buy one of
those "prepaid" cells so they could stay in contact with a few people.

I take it you are retired or semi-retired now. So is my "conservative"
father in law. He and his "liberal" wife, also now retired, spend
virtually all their time helping the poor, and according to both, there
is no end to them. They visit sick people in the hospital, set up and
run soup kitchens, help rebuild houses in poverty stricken areas,
counsel pregnant and single young girls and arrange decent care for
them, et cetera.

My father in law, a very bright guy who worked his entire career for a
major corporation and retired as a significant executive, says, "I had
no idea there were so many needy people in this land of opportunity."
His exact words.

Yes, as you say, there are some who "game" the system. But there are
tens of millions of poor folks who do not.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 10:35�am, HK wrote:


There are somewhere between 30 and 40 million Americans living in poverty.

Sleep tight.-

Imagining that the results of a Tweedle Dee vs. Tweedle Dum election
will materially reduce poverty may be the ultimate copout. Your party
is as impotent and corrupt as the party you oppose, to put it bluntly.
There are some problems that government cannot solve, and poverty is
on that list. Some of the communist and socialist governments
originally organized to eliminate poverty only succeeded in fostering
record amounts of it. The Republicans can't fix it. The Democrats
can't fix it. The Communists and Socialists can't fix it. As a society
we *can* fix it, but not through government action. Therefore the
party in power at any given moment is a fairly meaningless factor when
considering the problem of poverty.

I always do.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 10:35�am, HK wrote:

There are somewhere between 30 and 40 million Americans living in poverty.

Sleep tight.-

Imagining that the results of a Tweedle Dee vs. Tweedle Dum election
will materially reduce poverty may be the ultimate copout. Your party
is as impotent and corrupt as the party you oppose, to put it bluntly.
There are some problems that government cannot solve, and poverty is
on that list. Some of the communist and socialist governments
originally organized to eliminate poverty only succeeded in fostering
record amounts of it. The Republicans can't fix it. The Democrats
can't fix it. The Communists and Socialists can't fix it. As a society
we *can* fix it, but not through government action. Therefore the
party in power at any given moment is a fairly meaningless factor when
considering the problem of poverty.

I always do.


I see. So...let's give up!

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

JimH wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 8:47 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 6:42?am, "JimH" wrote:
Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their
hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. ?
Bad news outsells good news.
Some might think, "They're trying to throw the election to the D's!"
I disagree. They just want to create enough uncertainty in the market
that more folks will tune in every day to "see how bad things are
getting", thereby increasing ratings and creating some justification
for raising ad rates.
Also, the companies that survive economic downturn often do so by
*increasing* their advertising, particularly for consumer goods.
You can't be serious. Either that, or you are totally disconnected
from
the harsh reality facing many millions of your fellow citizens who are
jobless, homeless, losing their homes, health-insurance-less, and
without much hope for the future.

How are social services doing in Seattle these days? Still pretty
miserable for those in need?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
About 1-2% of the homes in the US are in, or at risk of, foreclosure.
Yet it's headline news in every paper and the subject of "specials" on
radio and TV. In some of the worst hit communities, the number is as
high as 5%, meaning that 950 out of every 1000 households in those
worst hit communities have no reason to fear losing their home to the
bank or mortgage company.

The health insurance issue has nothing to do with economic cycling.
We have had a broken health services delivery model in the country for
at least 30 years. We have had booms and busts along the way, despite
the fact that our health insurance system is designed first to make
corporations wealthy, and only then to see about making people well.

There are somewhere between 30 and 40 million Americans living in
poverty.

Sleep tight.

What is your definition of poverty because my daughter may meet that
threshold yet she is doing fine.

How many times do you see folks paying for food with food stamps while
they wear all sorts of expensive bling and are talking on their cell
phone.

I am not saying that there are not needy people........I am saying some
folks take advantage of the system.

Check that. The poverty level is $10k/year and under. My daughter makes
far more than that working part time as a server at a sports bar while
applying for and interviewing for a position matching her college degree.

All folks have to do is get off their fat asses and work.........maybe
even 2 jobs if that is what it takes to get out of poverty.

Often times THEY made the decision to drop out of HS and not get an
education. They alone are responsible for their predicament and can get
out of it if they truly wanted to. Living off our taxes is far easier
though.




Yes, as you say, there are some who "game" the system. But there are
tens of millions of poor folks who do not.
============================================

Tens of millions? Doubtful. And what stops most of them from working one
or two jobs to get out of poverty?





A lot of them do work one or two jobs, but they're still impoverished.

--
George W. Bush - Worst President Ever, to the very last minute of the
very last day of his term.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
On Jan 30, 8:51?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:39:05 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Jan 30, 3:11?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.

I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.

Absolutely. I will do a little informal polling among some of my
contacts selling aluminum fihsing boats, etc and see if the market is
as strong in that sector.

I'll be interesting comparing the results from Boston and Hartford to
yours.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In many ways, the Pacific North Wet is enjoying a bout of prosperity
when compared to the rest of the country. Our governor just yesterday
called for a $3-million apprenticeship program to train people for
jobs in aircraft assembly. Boeing can't find enough qualified help,
and the ripple effect from that is that wages are being driven up
throughout the region.

If we could turn off the national news, I think we'd probably have
almost boom times in this particular region.

I heard that Boeing has orders-a-plenty for that new Dreamliner.
Thats good news as well.

db

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Jan 30, 9:50 am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
messagenews:kqm0q3564msbfq657ci5gethlbjnej3gls@4ax .com...

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:
If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.
I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.
True dat but, maybe they won't have to lay off the guy/gal building
the seat cushions in the galley. Maybe he/she can afford to buy
that skiff....... since they won't be out looking for another job.

Das good news indeed.

db

Indeed...;) And that is exactly the guy I am planning on putting back
on the water, much to the shegrin of Harry and the other rich bottle
boaters.;)


See, now there is yet another example of your ignorance. *I* am the one
here who has been railing against the "yachties," their overblown boats,
their wasting of petrol, and the need for huge surtaxes on the amounts of
fuel they burn.

My yacht burns more or less 8 GPH at reasonable cruise. Any yacht that burns
more than that Should be heavily taxed and fuel rationed. I'm with you
Hairball.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

Jim wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Jan 30, 9:50 am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
messagenews:kqm0q3564msbfq657ci5gethlbjnej3gls@4ax .com...

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:
If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news
may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.
I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.
True dat but, maybe they won't have to lay off the guy/gal building
the seat cushions in the galley. Maybe he/she can afford to buy
that skiff....... since they won't be out looking for another job.

Das good news indeed.

db

Indeed...;) And that is exactly the guy I am planning on putting back
on the water, much to the shegrin of Harry and the other rich bottle
boaters.;)


See, now there is yet another example of your ignorance. *I* am the
one here who has been railing against the "yachties," their overblown
boats, their wasting of petrol, and the need for huge surtaxes on the
amounts of fuel they burn.

My yacht burns more or less 8 GPH at reasonable cruise. Any yacht that
burns more than that Should be heavily taxed and fuel rationed. I'm with
you Hairball.


What yacht is that, JimmyBobBoy? I thought you played the banjo while
sitting on the old refrigerator on your front porch.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Jan 30, 9:50 am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
messagenews:kqm0q3564msbfq657ci5gethlbjnej3gls@4ax .com...

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:
If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may
be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.
I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.
True dat but, maybe they won't have to lay off the guy/gal building
the seat cushions in the galley. Maybe he/she can afford to buy
that skiff....... since they won't be out looking for another job.

Das good news indeed.

db

Indeed...;) And that is exactly the guy I am planning on putting back
on the water, much to the shegrin of Harry and the other rich bottle
boaters.;)


See, now there is yet another example of your ignorance. *I* am the one
here who has been railing against the "yachties," their overblown boats,
their wasting of petrol, and the need for huge surtaxes on the amounts
of fuel they burn.

My yacht burns more or less 8 GPH at reasonable cruise. Any yacht that
burns more than that Should be heavily taxed and fuel rationed. I'm with
you Hairball.


What yacht is that, JimmyBobBoy? I thought you played the banjo while
sitting on the old refrigerator on your front porch.


Sorry Harry. You got me confused with the fella you saw down by the river
when you were out playing shoot em up with your geriatric, mercinary wanna
be, friends.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 10:15:32 -0500, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Jan 30, 9:50 am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in messagenews:kqm0q3564msbfq657ci5gethlbjnej3gls@4ax .com...

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:
If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.
I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.
True dat but, maybe they won't have to lay off the guy/gal building
the seat cushions in the galley. Maybe he/she can afford to buy
that skiff....... since they won't be out looking for another job.

Das good news indeed.

db

Indeed...;) And that is exactly the guy I am planning on putting back
on the water, much to the shegrin of Harry and the other rich bottle
boaters.;)


See, now there is yet another example of your ignorance. *I* am the one
here who has been railing against the "yachties," their overblown boats,
their wasting of petrol, and the need for huge surtaxes on the amounts
of fuel they burn.

Harry, there is nothing here you *haven't* railed at. It's what makes you
so loveable...to some.
--
John H

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 10:16:56 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Jan 30, 8:47*am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 6:42?am, "JimH" wrote:

Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. ?

Bad news outsells good news.

Some might think, "They're trying to throw the election to the D's!"

I disagree. They just want to create enough uncertainty in the market
that more folks will tune in every day to "see how bad things are
getting", thereby increasing ratings and creating some justification
for raising ad rates.

Also, the companies that survive economic downturn often do so by
*increasing* their advertising, particularly for consumer goods.

You can't be serious. Either that, or you are totally disconnected from
the harsh reality facing many millions of your fellow citizens who are
jobless, homeless, losing their homes, health-insurance-less, and
without much hope for the future.

How are social services doing in Seattle these days? Still pretty
miserable for those in need?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

About 1-2% of the homes in the US are in, or at risk of, foreclosure.
Yet it's headline news in every paper and the subject of "specials" on
radio and TV. In some of the worst hit communities, the number is as
high as 5%, meaning that 950 out of every 1000 households in those
worst hit communities have no reason to fear losing their home to the
bank or mortgage company.

The health insurance issue has nothing to do with economic cycling.
We have had a broken health services delivery model in the country for
at least 30 years. We have had booms and busts along the way, despite
the fact that our health insurance system is designed first to make
corporations wealthy, and only then to see about making people well.

I don't really *get* joblessness, except in cases where people are
physically unable to work. It's absolutely true that people may not be
able to get work in a field where they prefer to work or where they
have developed considerable (but possibly obsolete) expertise, but
there is plenty of work available in other fields. When I opted to
drop out of the educational system, many people remarked "You will
never amount to anything in life without a college education!" I had
the pleasure of hiring a few of them over the years to work for
me. :-) Point being, accepting joblessness is accepting the role of
"victim of circumstance", and that's a load of equine excrement. Most
of us can determine, or at least materially influence, our
circumstances.

Homelessness; 30 years ago most of the chronically homeless would have
been cared for in an institution. It's tragic that we leave these
least able, very often mentally unstable, individuals to forage
through garbage cans and sleep under cardboard boxes in the rain.
There is no answer to all homelessness, but treating these addicts and
alcoholics somewhere along the way would be less expensive than
constantly sweeping up after the human train wrecks.

If I am "disconnected" from folks who are jobless, homeless, and
without hope it's because of choices I made along the way. Choices
that were available to everybody else, by the way. No privilege in my
background, at all. My heart (and no small amount of money as well as
some volunteer time) goes out to relieve what suffering I can. As
tragic as the situation may be for those on the most hopeless fringes
of society- their situations are not typical nor should they define
who and what we are as the American people.

Very well said. Almost unbelievable. It shows an acceptance of personal
responsibility that I'd thought pretty nonexistent in liberals.

Of course, you're 'independent'. I'd forgotten.
--
John H

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:35:02 -0500, HK wrote:

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 8:47 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 6:42?am, "JimH" wrote:
Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. ?
Bad news outsells good news.
Some might think, "They're trying to throw the election to the D's!"
I disagree. They just want to create enough uncertainty in the market
that more folks will tune in every day to "see how bad things are
getting", thereby increasing ratings and creating some justification
for raising ad rates.
Also, the companies that survive economic downturn often do so by
*increasing* their advertising, particularly for consumer goods.
You can't be serious. Either that, or you are totally disconnected from
the harsh reality facing many millions of your fellow citizens who are
jobless, homeless, losing their homes, health-insurance-less, and
without much hope for the future.

How are social services doing in Seattle these days? Still pretty
miserable for those in need?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

About 1-2% of the homes in the US are in, or at risk of, foreclosure.
Yet it's headline news in every paper and the subject of "specials" on
radio and TV. In some of the worst hit communities, the number is as
high as 5%, meaning that 950 out of every 1000 households in those
worst hit communities have no reason to fear losing their home to the
bank or mortgage company.

The health insurance issue has nothing to do with economic cycling.
We have had a broken health services delivery model in the country for
at least 30 years. We have had booms and busts along the way, despite
the fact that our health insurance system is designed first to make
corporations wealthy, and only then to see about making people well.



There are somewhere between 30 and 40 million Americans living in poverty.

Sleep tight.

And only about 15-20 million of those are legal.
--
John H

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

"HK" wrote in message
...

Chuck Gould wrote:

Also, the companies that survive economic downturn often do so by
*increasing* their advertising, particularly for consumer goods.


You can't be serious. Either that, or you are totally disconnected from
the harsh reality facing many millions of your fellow citizens who are
jobless, homeless, losing their homes, health-insurance-less, and without
much hope for the future.

How are social services doing in Seattle these days? Still pretty
miserable for those in need?


Harry's Paradise.

Eisboch

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...


If we could turn off the national news, I think we'd probably have
almost boom times in this particular region.

---------------------------

Ain't too many people complaining in our neck of the woods, either.

Eisboch

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 1:05�pm, John H. wrote:


Very well said. Almost unbelievable. It shows an acceptance of personal
responsibility that I'd thought pretty nonexistent in liberals.

Of course, you're 'independent'. I'd forgotten.

I'm politically independent. But philosophically, what *you* would
probably consider a radical liberal. As a liberal, I take personal
responsibility very seriously. The more I can do for myself, the less
I need the intrusion of your Republican or Democratic parties with
their professional con men, accomplished liars, and organized hatreds.

Try an experiment. Take your prejudices and stereotypes, (just one at
a time, no reason to endure too large a shock at once), and ask
yourself "What if this isn't right? What if every conservative,
liberal, black, white, Latino, man, woman, Republican, Democrat, etc
doesn't fit the very narrow pigeon hole to which I have mentally
assigned them?"

Most people are far more accomplished and complex than we care to
imagine. I know that even people who disagree with me can be worthy
and valuable assets to society. I know that sometimes (maybe not too
often) they actually turn out to have a better perspective of certain
issues than I do. Consider challenging your own stereotypes- You might
find the process very LIBERAting. :-)

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:27:10 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Jan 30, 1:05?pm, John H. wrote:


Very well said. Almost unbelievable. It shows an acceptance of personal
responsibility that I'd thought pretty nonexistent in liberals.

Of course, you're 'independent'. I'd forgotten.

I'm politically independent. But philosophically, what *you* would
probably consider a radical liberal. As a liberal, I take personal
responsibility very seriously. The more I can do for myself, the less
I need the intrusion of your Republican or Democratic parties with
their professional con men, accomplished liars, and organized hatreds.

Try an experiment. Take your prejudices and stereotypes, (just one at
a time, no reason to endure too large a shock at once), and ask
yourself "What if this isn't right? What if every conservative,
liberal, black, white, Latino, man, woman, Republican, Democrat, etc
doesn't fit the very narrow pigeon hole to which I have mentally
assigned them?"

Most people are far more accomplished and complex than we care to
imagine. I know that even people who disagree with me can be worthy
and valuable assets to society. I know that sometimes (maybe not too
often) they actually turn out to have a better perspective of certain
issues than I do. Consider challenging your own stereotypes- You might
find the process very LIBERAting. :-)


I will save this sermonette. I like the smiley face at the end, and the
implication that you are without stereotypes and prejudices.

Yes, I have some stereotypes. Several are reinforced on a daily, nay,
hourly basis right here. You've probably not noticed.
--
John H

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 1:48*pm, "JimH" wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message

...







"HK" wrote in message
...
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 8:47 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 6:42?am, "JimH" wrote:
Gee, I wonder why ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and CNBC are trying their
hardest to
make sure we dump into a recession. ?
Bad news outsells good news.
Some might think, "They're trying to throw the election to the D's!"
I disagree. They just want to create enough uncertainty in the market
that more folks will tune in every day to "see how bad things are
getting", thereby increasing ratings and creating some justification
for raising ad rates.
Also, the companies that survive economic downturn often do so by
*increasing* their advertising, particularly for consumer goods.
You can't be serious. Either that, or you are totally disconnected from
the harsh reality facing many millions of your fellow citizens who are
jobless, homeless, losing their homes, health-insurance-less, and
without much hope for the future.

How are social services doing in Seattle these days? Still pretty
miserable for those in need?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

About 1-2% of the homes in the US are in, or at risk of, foreclosure.
Yet it's headline news in every paper and the subject of "specials" on
radio and TV. In some of the worst hit communities, the number is as
high as 5%, meaning that 950 out of every 1000 households in those
worst hit communities have no reason to fear losing their home to the
bank or mortgage company.

The health insurance issue has nothing to do with economic cycling.
We have had a broken health services delivery model in the country for
at least 30 years. We have had booms and busts along the way, despite
the fact that our health insurance system is designed first to make
corporations wealthy, and only then to see about making people well.

There are somewhere between 30 and 40 million Americans living in
poverty.

Sleep tight.

What is your definition of poverty because my daughter may meet that
threshold yet she is doing fine.

Check that. * The poverty level is $10k/year and under. *My daughter makes
far more than that working part time as a server at a sports bar while
applying for and interviewing for a position matching her college degree.

Hooter's?

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:39:18 -0500, D-unit penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
On Jan 30, 8:51?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:39:05 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Jan 30, 3:11?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:58:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
If this economic indicator is worth anything, the national news may be
overstating the certainty of a recession, at least in the Pacific
North Wet.

I think the boats you are talking about are out of the range of your
average Joe Six-Pack.

Absolutely. I will do a little informal polling among some of my
contacts selling aluminum fihsing boats, etc and see if the market is
as strong in that sector.

I'll be interesting comparing the results from Boston and Hartford to
yours.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In many ways, the Pacific North Wet is enjoying a bout of prosperity
when compared to the rest of the country. Our governor just yesterday
called for a $3-million apprenticeship program to train people for
jobs in aircraft assembly. Boeing can't find enough qualified help,
and the ripple effect from that is that wages are being driven up
throughout the region.

If we could turn off the national news, I think we'd probably have
almost boom times in this particular region.

I heard that Boeing has orders-a-plenty for that new Dreamliner.
Thats good news as well.

db



Don.... I can't follow the thread.....

... you realize that my program is spending about 2/3 of that amount
spooling up for FedEx, Honda, TIMCO, and we don't have a clue who else
is coming at Guilford Technical Community College at the Greensboro
Airport (GSO)? I've done nothing but write specifications and POs
since November.... we will probably end up with the largest and best
equipped aviation facility east of the Mississippi.

The Guilford County Schools are looking at a feeder magnet school,
too.

Can you give me more info on what Easley is saying....

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats


Sorry Gene,

I don't know the problem is with my newsreader but..
I think you're responding to something that Chuck penned.



db

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 11:04Â*am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 30, 10:35�am, HK wrote:

There are somewhere between 30 and 40 million Americans living in poverty.

Sleep tight.-

Imagining that the results of a Tweedle Dee vs. Tweedle Dum election
will materially reduce poverty may be the ultimate copout. Your party
is as impotent and corrupt as the party you oppose, to put it bluntly.
There are some problems that government cannot solve, and poverty is
on that list. Some of the communist and socialist governments
originally organized to eliminate poverty only succeeded in fostering
record amounts of it. The Republicans can't fix it. The Democrats
can't fix it. The Communists and Socialists can't fix it. As a society
we *can* fix it, but not through government action. Therefore the
party in power at any given moment is a fairly meaningless factor when
considering the problem of poverty.

I always do.

I see. So...let's give up!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let's look for solutions that don't involve believing the fairy tales
told by candidates on the campaign trail.

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 31, 5:15�am, John H. wrote:


I will save this sermonette. I like the smiley face at the end, and the
implication that you are without stereotypes and prejudices.


I challenge mine, on a daily basis. A stereotype is a trap that
precludes
accurate observation. Inaccurate observation of the people and
situations around you will make a person less able to cope with the
world.



Yes, I have some stereotypes. Several are reinforced on a daily, nay,
hourly basis right here. You've probably not noticed.
--
John H- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Encouraging news from the Seattle Boat Show
 

On Jan 30, 11:36�am, "JimH" wrote:


Why? �Working 2 full time jobs at even minimum wage: $5.85 x 80 hours x 52
weeks = $24,336 gross. �Note that I used the rock bottom MW figure. �Some
State are well above that.

http://www.laborlawcenter.com/state-...asp?gclid=CMjv...

The MW will again go up in July, resulting in this 80 hour MW worker
grossing $26k. �Many college grads start off their careers making not much
more than that.

I am not cold and thoughtless but I truly believe poverty is often a
personal decision, especially when our government continues to enable folks
taking advantage of its assistance.- Hide quoted text -

Working two full time jobs is easy to say, but look at the realities.

You will probably be on the job 18-hours out of every 24 to work "two
full time jobs", given an hour for lunch and/or coffee breaks during
the day.
Add another hour and a half to commute to the first job, commute from
there to the second job, and from the second job back home again:

19.5 hours out of 24, leaving exactly 4.5 hours to eat, sleep, shower,
etc. Few people can sustain that kind of schedule for very long,
particularly on the crappy, mostly-starch diet normally eaten by the
poor. To get really complicated, the two jobs will have to have
opposite hours adn never require any overtime. The two job worker
doesn't have the flexibility to accept a shift change- very common in
mini-wage jobs.

To make things even more complex, a lot of those poor folks who need
to work two full time jobs to make ends meet are going to be single
mothers. Who's going to watch their kids? No money to pay for day
care, maybe no relatives not also working "two full time
jobs"......odds are that the kids will be left to fend for themselves
without adequate parental supervision and *that* alone will ensure
another generation of educational underachievement, delinquency, drug
abuse, prostitution, etc.

There are no simple answers.