inexpensive diesel engines
 

Somehow I found this site:

http://members.aol.com/westernstar66/indianlisters.html

that lists a 20 hp diesel for $3250, a real bargain for a new engine
compared to most diesels for boats. These are low rpm diesels that
can run on vegetable oil and are very efficient.

So, what would you do for a transmission? Maybe you could use a belt
with an idler pulley that was lever controlled. Tension on the idler
pulley would sorta regulate the speed. Maybe the engine has a speed
control, I dunno. Reverse would be a real problem. These look heavy
but just cool as hell. I love simple stuff, great engineering.

inexpensive diesel engines
 

wrote in message
...
Somehow I found this site:

http://members.aol.com/westernstar66/indianlisters.html

that lists a 20 hp diesel for $3250, a real bargain for a new engine
compared to most diesels for boats. These are low rpm diesels that
can run on vegetable oil and are very efficient.

So, what would you do for a transmission? Maybe you could use a belt
with an idler pulley that was lever controlled. Tension on the idler
pulley would sorta regulate the speed. Maybe the engine has a speed
control, I dunno. Reverse would be a real problem. These look heavy
but just cool as hell. I love simple stuff, great engineering.

Looks a lot like some of the old 1 lunger diesels in the Monterey fishing
boats and some of the other commercial boats in the 1950's.

inexpensive diesel engines
 

wrote in news:df918b70-350c-4fa7-80a1-
:

Somehow I found this site:

http://members.aol.com/westernstar66/indianlisters.html

that lists a 20 hp diesel for $3250, a real bargain for a new
engine
compared to most diesels for boats. These are low rpm diesels
that
can run on vegetable oil and are very efficient.

So, what would you do for a transmission? Maybe you could use
a belt
with an idler pulley that was lever controlled. Tension on the
idler
pulley would sorta regulate the speed. Maybe the engine has a
speed
control, I dunno. Reverse would be a real problem. These look
heavy
but just cool as hell. I love simple stuff, great engineering.


http://tinyurl.com/create.php

Pep Boys Auto Parts had this 6KW diesel genset, electric start,
quiet cabinet, ISO900x certified, painted yellow but from this
Chinese company, for $1599 last fall. I'm running 2 diesel cars
and a V-8 diesel stepvan on used frying oil from Chinese
restaurants, so decided to buy one for the house in case of
hurricanes here in Charleston.

It's a great little genset, 120/240 60 Hz for the American
market. It turns 3600 RPM from its 1 cyl OHC 4-stroke diesel and
runs a LONG time on a single fueling. Its only headache is its
WEIGHT! The Chinese now seem to have VAST resources of HEAVY
STEEL and aren't afraid to USE IT in their products. It has
wheels for a reason. None is going to carry it off without a
fight...(c; The cylinder, for instance, isn't a cast iron sleeve
in an aluminum case...It's a CAST IRON CYLINDER, the old
fashioned way!

There's a compression release so you can hand crank it with the
included crank handle if the battery goes dead. Even comes with
a little AGM starting battery you can't pronounce.

I ran it on diesel for the first 20 hours to make sure it wasn't
going to be a return problem, but have migrated it, now, to my
cooking oil soup of 1 quart of mineral spirits mixed with 20
gallons of cooking oil and it cranks right up.

Whenever I crank it, my smartassed neighbor shows up with his
drop cord, the price I have to pay to run it 24/7 in
emergencies...(c;
I'll even have 220VAC hot water....

Larry
--
Merry Christmas!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qi_NhFS4xEE

inexpensive diesel engines
 

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:13:03 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

Tension on the idler
pulley would sorta regulate the speed.

Only by allowing varying ammounts of belt slippage. You would get very
poor belt life. I have seen this kind of setup, My dad built a lawn
tractor with that kind of clutch. Had a transmission from the flap
mechanism on a B-17. It had only 3 horse or so.

Casady

inexpensive diesel engines
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:13:03 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

Tension on the idler
pulley would sorta regulate the speed.

Only by allowing varying ammounts of belt slippage. You would get very
poor belt life. I have seen this kind of setup, My dad built a lawn
tractor with that kind of clutch. Had a transmission from the flap
mechanism on a B-17. It had only 3 horse or so.

Casady

Get your attributes correct. And there are variable transmissions for
belts. Some automatic according to speed. Variable width pullies. One
gets wider while the other gets narrower giving a bigger diameter.

inexpensive diesel engines
 

Subject

Talk about mutually exclusive terms.

Lew

inexpensive diesel engines
 

Calif Bill wrote:

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:13:03 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


Tension on the idler

pulley would sorta regulate the speed.

Only by allowing varying ammounts of belt slippage. You would get very
poor belt life. I have seen this kind of setup, My dad built a lawn
tractor with that kind of clutch. Had a transmission from the flap
mechanism on a B-17. It had only 3 horse or so.

Casady


Get your attributes correct. And there are variable transmissions for
belts. Some automatic according to speed. Variable width pullies. One
gets wider while the other gets narrower giving a bigger diameter.



Correct...

CVTs (continuously variable transmissions) are being used in cars currently on
the market. My Honda Civic Hybrid has one for example.

Take a look at:

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/tec...4/article.html

Brian C

inexpensive diesel engines
 

Brian Cleverly wrote in
:

CVTs (continuously variable transmissions) are being used in
cars
currently on the market. My Honda Civic Hybrid has one for
example.



My 250cc Honda Reflex motor scooter has a variable V-belt drive
on it. The pulleys are about 6" in diameter and have two sets of
3 weights in them that are rollers. When the pulleys come up to
speed, geared to the rear wheel, one set of weights flies out at
around 40 mph. The second, lighter set, flies out around 50.
This is dependent on how much throttle you feed it, how much
power it's transmitting to the wheel. If you are easy on it, it,
the ratio changes more quickly than if you are harder on it,
which puts pressure on the V-belt and keeps the pulley apart
(like lower gear) making the transitions come on later at higher
speeds. There's a clutch inside the engine that applies power to
the v-belt drive around 2200 RPM, 1800 RPM is idle on the 1-cyl,
250CC, OHV, 4-stroke engine you can hardly hear run or feel in
the handlebars. It's a beautiful piece of engineering, very
simple in design. Honda spoils it all by trying to get $83.16
plus tax out of the damned common small 18mm v-belt it runs on.
It took me a while to get the specs on the belt, having to
threaten them with a Magnusson-Moss legal action if they required
me to use only their way-overpriced OEM belt. I got a better
belt than the cheaply made OEM one for $11.29 at Advance Auto, a
more reasonable price. It's double-cogged, steel cored. I'll
change it when Honda says at 12,000 miles. I built the pulley
removal tool already from a website on the net. I'm also playing
around with different WIDTH belts, which will change the gear
ratio of the system. Wider belts will run at lower ratios,
increasing mileage past the 80 mpg I'm getting now at the expense
of takeoff power, which at 62 years old doesn't impress me like
it used to...(c; I'm looking for the LONG RUN on the engine,
even though it's a Honda.

I remember Dutch-made DAF cars from the 50's and 60's that had
two belts with a central cross-shaft drives on them. Their
pulleys varied in width, too, on v-belts. The belts were LONG as
I think the cars were rear-wheel-drive. Belt drive is nothing
new.

The Honda Silver Wing 600cc scooter also has v-belt automatic
drive. I rode one but didn't like so much engine weight in the
back. It's really stern heavy. The 250cc will go about 85 mph
on its rev limiter. That's probably fast enough around the
city....(c;

Larry
--
Honda red, of course, just like my Honda 305 Dream was....(c;

inexpensive diesel engines
 

Run it as a generator and use it to charge an oversized bank of batteries.
With an electric motor you will gain variable speed and direction without
have an engineering nightmare.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Somehow I found this site:

http://members.aol.com/westernstar66/indianlisters.html

that lists a 20 hp diesel for $3250, a real bargain for a new engine
compared to most diesels for boats. These are low rpm diesels that
can run on vegetable oil and are very efficient.

So, what would you do for a transmission? Maybe you could use a belt
with an idler pulley that was lever controlled. Tension on the idler
pulley would sorta regulate the speed. Maybe the engine has a speed
control, I dunno. Reverse would be a real problem. These look heavy
but just cool as hell. I love simple stuff, great engineering.

Looks a lot like some of the old 1 lunger diesels in the Monterey fishing
boats and some of the other commercial boats in the 1950's.

inexpensive diesel engines
 

John C. wrote:

Run it as a generator and use it to charge an oversized bank of batteries.
With an electric motor you will gain variable speed and direction without
have an engineering nightmare.

I have been speculating about a diesel-electric propulsion for a smallish
sailboat. Does anyone have links to, or experience with, small electric
motors that are suitable for continuous use - most of my googling finds bow
thrusters and other extra machinery.

I am thinking of a fairly small engine, say 5-10 Hp, to be used mostly in
manouvering in and out of marinas, and occasionally coming home from a calm
sea. Would it make sense to mount the whole engine on the transom-hung
rudder? That way it could turn with the rudder, and give good steering in
both directions. When not in use, it could be lifted out of the water, so I
could use a decent size of propeller for it.

Would anyone care to shoot the idea down before I get too attached to it.
The whole project is on a dreaming level, I won't be building anything for
the next many years. But I still want to design it as if I was going to
build it some day soon...

Regards

Heikki
(Copenhagen, Denmark)

inexpensive diesel engines
 

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:50:00 +0100, Heikki wrote:

John C. wrote:

Run it as a generator and use it to charge an oversized bank of batteries.
With an electric motor you will gain variable speed and direction without
have an engineering nightmare.

I have been speculating about a diesel-electric propulsion for a smallish
sailboat. Does anyone have links to, or experience with, small electric
motors that are suitable for continuous use - most of my googling finds bow
thrusters and other extra machinery.

I am thinking of a fairly small engine, say 5-10 Hp, to be used mostly in
manouvering in and out of marinas, and occasionally coming home from a calm
sea. Would it make sense to mount the whole engine on the transom-hung
rudder? That way it could turn with the rudder, and give good steering in
both directions. When not in use, it could be lifted out of the water, so I
could use a decent size of propeller for it.

Would anyone care to shoot the idea down before I get too attached to it.
The whole project is on a dreaming level, I won't be building anything for
the next many years. But I still want to design it as if I was going to
build it some day soon...

Regards

Heikki
(Copenhagen, Denmark)


I don't have the answer to your question, but I wanted to tell you that I
fell in love with Copenhagen a few years back when visiting your country.
We stayed in a campground at the edge of the city and took the train in
each day. What a beautiful city and port.

I've never had a more enjoyable time than taking a harbor/city cruise
through Copenhagen. We stopped for lunch here, of course!

http://tinyurl.com/yu575t

Sorry for the interruption. There are a lot of very smart folks here who
should be able to help with your question.
--
John H

inexpensive diesel engines
 

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:50:00 +0100, Heikki wrote:

John C. wrote:

Run it as a generator and use it to charge an oversized bank of batteries.
With an electric motor you will gain variable speed and direction without
have an engineering nightmare.

I have been speculating about a diesel-electric propulsion for a smallish
sailboat. Does anyone have links to, or experience with, small electric
motors that are suitable for continuous use - most of my googling finds bow
thrusters and other extra machinery.

I am thinking of a fairly small engine, say 5-10 Hp, to be used mostly in
manouvering in and out of marinas, and occasionally coming home from a calm
sea. Would it make sense to mount the whole engine on the transom-hung
rudder? That way it could turn with the rudder, and give good steering in
both directions. When not in use, it could be lifted out of the water, so I
could use a decent size of propeller for it.

Would anyone care to shoot the idea down before I get too attached to it.
The whole project is on a dreaming level, I won't be building anything for
the next many years. But I still want to design it as if I was going to
build it some day soon...

Regards

Heikki
(Copenhagen, Denmark)

Yes, I guess I'd have to say "why"? With a small diesel engine you
would have a variable thrust device without the added complexity of
the electrical motor, controller, etc., not to mention the "over sized
bank of batteries".

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

inexpensive diesel engines
 

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:50:00 +0100, Heikki wrote:

John C. wrote:

Run it as a generator and use it to charge an oversized bank of batteries.
With an electric motor you will gain variable speed and direction without
have an engineering nightmare.

I have been speculating about a diesel-electric propulsion for a smallish
sailboat. Does anyone have links to, or experience with, small electric
motors that are suitable for continuous use - most of my googling finds bow
thrusters and other extra machinery.

There are electric fishing motors, in the one horsepower or less
class. Maybe enough power for an under twenty foot boat. Not good on a
windy day.

I am thinking of a fairly small engine, say 5-10 Hp, to be used mostly in
manouvering in and out of marinas, and occasionally coming home from a calm
sea. Would it make sense to mount the whole engine on the transom-hung
rudder? That way it could turn with the rudder, and give good steering in
both directions. When not in use, it could be lifted out of the water, so I
could use a decent size of propeller for it.

There is the tried and true outboard motor. Hanging stuff on the
rudder sounds like a poor approach to me. Not to mention ugly.

Would anyone care to shoot the idea down before I get too attached to it.

Shouldn't be too hard.

Casady

inexpensive diesel engines
 

Hi John,
Ive been thinking much along the same lines for my some-day dream boat
(60+foot sailing cat). I'd ultimately like to have redundancy in all
systems with maybe 4 props; one in each hull and twin drop down props in the
deck. While it initally may sound stupid, I'd envisaged having many systems
tied together. I was thinking hi speed hydraulics for reliability, with
many tie-ins. here would be diesel generators (x1 or x2) with battery
banks, and an option to either have the diesels direct drive the hydraulics
or charge batteries, or both. There would then be electric motors to drive
hydraulics on demand also. The two props in the hulls would be hydraulic
drive, while the two in the deck would probably just be some form of
standalone outboard (also diesel).

Further to all this, many other items on the boat would also be hydraulic
driven; compressor for refrigeration, whinches, anchor whicn etc and could
all be driven by either the diesel motor running the hydraulic pumps, or the
electric motors running the same pumps. The props in the water would also
be able to function as generators, and there would be other options for
generating electricity (wind generators, solar etc). this would give
numerous options for drive, and with 2 of everything you would have plenty
of redundancy. The beauty of electric drive is power on demand; no need to
start motors, stalling etc... the power is there straight away. This is a
huge plus in emergency situations, and is just nice in having silent drive
for day sailing.

The downside to all this is efficiency. By running multiple systems like
this your efficiency gets down pretty low. From my point of view though, I
am hoping to run a pretty minimalist scheme of things electrically; no tv,
dvd, minimal refrigeration, minimal nav, LED nav lights, no microwave etc
etc, so the electric is mainly for propulsion. With a boat used mainly as a
sailing boat, I would hope that I can keep propulsion usage low enough that
it could be recovered by means of solar and wind generation meaning that
diesel was only there as a backup. In a cruising mentality, you may be
happy to wait another week rather than burn some diesel. I'm trying to see
the longer view here, but may be completely wrong. While some very large
capacity ships have gone to diesel over electric, most of the stuff
available is still diesel direct drive. For the most part the diesel over
electric stuff is running exotic propulsion systems anyway (not normal
props)

There are some inboard style electric motors available on ebay in australia
in the last year, i think the name is thiele? they advertise up to 44hp,
and sell controllers etc to suit. they have the necessary components to use
the prop to drive the motor as a generator also. a bit of hunting around
should get some useful information. Im far from the buying stage myself,
maybe in 10 years or so

Shaun


"Heikki" wrote in message
...
John C. wrote:

Run it as a generator and use it to charge an oversized bank of
batteries.
With an electric motor you will gain variable speed and direction without
have an engineering nightmare.

I have been speculating about a diesel-electric propulsion for a smallish
sailboat. Does anyone have links to, or experience with, small electric
motors that are suitable for continuous use - most of my googling finds
bow
thrusters and other extra machinery.

I am thinking of a fairly small engine, say 5-10 Hp, to be used mostly in
manouvering in and out of marinas, and occasionally coming home from a
calm
sea. Would it make sense to mount the whole engine on the transom-hung
rudder? That way it could turn with the rudder, and give good steering in
both directions. When not in use, it could be lifted out of the water, so
I
could use a decent size of propeller for it.

Would anyone care to shoot the idea down before I get too attached to it.
The whole project is on a dreaming level, I won't be building anything for
the next many years. But I still want to design it as if I was going to
build it some day soon...

Regards

Heikki
(Copenhagen, Denmark)

inexpensive diesel engines
 

On Dec 15, 2:50 am, Heikki wrote:
John C. wrote:
Run it as a generator and use it to charge an oversized bank of batteries.
With an electric motor you will gain variable speed and direction without
have an engineering nightmare.

I have been speculating about a diesel-electric propulsion for a smallish
sailboat. Does anyone have links to, or experience with, small electric
motors that are suitable for continuous use - most of my googling finds bow
thrusters and other extra machinery.

I am thinking of a fairly small engine, say 5-10 Hp, to be used mostly in
manouvering in and out of marinas, and occasionally coming home from a calm
sea. Would it make sense to mount the whole engine on the transom-hung
rudder? That way it could turn with the rudder, and give good steering in
both directions. When not in use, it could be lifted out of the water, so I
could use a decent size of propeller for it.

Would anyone care to shoot the idea down before I get too attached to it.
The whole project is on a dreaming level, I won't be building anything for
the next many years. But I still want to design it as if I was going to
build it some day soon...

Regards

Heikki
(Copenhagen, Denmark)

I would get a lower unit from an outboard and mount it permanently on
the bottom of the hull and then mount a 32V military surplus motor on
the inside and use the rudder for steering. Use three 12V batteries
in series for 36V which will drop to about 32V when under load. The
US Military made several large 32V motors that were used for fuel pump
in Jets and for power generation in the old prop planes. I have a 15
HP (Jet fuel pump) and a 25 HP (I think this came out of a B-25) that
I picked up at surplus prices a few years ago to make an electric car
which I later disassembled (yes it was successful). Am now thinking
about the 25HP for a small single seat hydroplane for short but fast
runs.

inexpensive diesel engines
 

Heikki wrote:
John C. wrote:

Run it as a generator and use it to charge an oversized bank of batteries.
With an electric motor you will gain variable speed and direction without
have an engineering nightmare.

I have been speculating about a diesel-electric propulsion for a smallish
sailboat. Does anyone have links to, or experience with, small electric
motors that are suitable for continuous use - most of my googling finds bow
thrusters and other extra machinery.

I am thinking of a fairly small engine, say 5-10 Hp, to be used mostly in
manouvering in and out of marinas, and occasionally coming home from a calm
sea. Would it make sense to mount the whole engine on the transom-hung
rudder? That way it could turn with the rudder, and give good steering in
both directions. When not in use, it could be lifted out of the water, so I
could use a decent size of propeller for it.

Would anyone care to shoot the idea down before I get too attached to it.
The whole project is on a dreaming level, I won't be building anything for
the next many years. But I still want to design it as if I was going to
build it some day soon...

Regards

Heikki
(Copenhagen, Denmark)



Bow thruster type motor or electric trolling motor

inexpensive diesel engines
 

Heikki wrote:
John C. wrote:

Run it as a generator and use it to charge an oversized bank of batteries.
With an electric motor you will gain variable speed and direction without
have an engineering nightmare.

I have been speculating about a diesel-electric propulsion for a smallish
sailboat. Does anyone have links to, or experience with, small electric
motors that are suitable for continuous use - most of my googling finds bow
thrusters and other extra machinery.

I am thinking of a fairly small engine, say 5-10 Hp, to be used mostly in
manouvering in and out of marinas, and occasionally coming home from a calm
sea. Would it make sense to mount the whole engine on the transom-hung
rudder? That way it could turn with the rudder, and give good steering in
both directions. When not in use, it could be lifted out of the water, so I
could use a decent size of propeller for it.

Would anyone care to shoot the idea down before I get too attached to it.
The whole project is on a dreaming level, I won't be building anything for
the next many years. But I still want to design it as if I was going to
build it some day soon...

BANG! (whistling sound as the idea spirals down in flames :-)

Seriously, if you just want to get in and out of the marina, look for
off-the-shelf electric outboards. But 5-10 hp is probably going to be
hard to find. Check out the following link for more info on electric
boats and gas/diesel electric conversions. Good luck!

http://www.econogics.com/ev/evboats.htm

Keith Hughes

PS. Just for clarity of terminology on the US side of the pond, Electric
= Motor, Gasoline/Diesel/Fuel = Engine.

inexpensive diesel engines
 

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:50:00 +0100 Heikki
) wrote:
John C. wrote:

Run it as a generator and use it to charge an oversized bank of batteries.
With an electric motor you will gain variable speed and direction without
have an engineering nightmare.

I have been speculating about a diesel-electric propulsion for a smallish
sailboat. Does anyone have links to, or experience with, small electric
motors that are suitable for continuous use - most of my googling finds bow
thrusters and other extra machinery.

I am thinking of a fairly small engine, say 5-10 Hp, to be used mostly in
manouvering in and out of marinas, and occasionally coming home from a calm
sea. Would it make sense to mount the whole engine on the transom-hung
rudder? That way it could turn with the rudder, and give good steering in
both directions. When not in use, it could be lifted out of the water, so I
could use a decent size of propeller for it.

Would anyone care to shoot the idea down before I get too attached to it.
The whole project is on a dreaming level, I won't be building anything for
the next many years. But I still want to design it as if I was going to
build it some day soon...

Regular outboards do have a fair weight/hp compared to e-motor and
batteries. The only thin you have to worry about is fuel. Or how did you
plan to fill your batteries?

--
Richard
e-mail: vervang/replace invalid door/with NL.net

inexpensive diesel engines
 

Look into golf cart motors. Consider duty cycle and run times with respect
to motor choice and battery bank size. Larger engines can be found in the
fork truck industry. Both the golf cart and fork truck would provide speed
and direction controls as well as basic mounting design. Your small diesel
generator may need to run much longer than your motor and or you will
require dockside recharging and use the diesel as back and top-off while at
sea. Keeping the generator output close to the energy needs of the motor
will increase the overall efficiency of the system. It would be useless to
require 4 hours of charging to produce the energy needed for 15 minutes of
motoring unless the battery bank was large enough to carry reserve energy in
far excess of your typical needs. The primary charge would then come from
dockside sources and your generator would be always on stand by.

There is a lot of info on the net about hybrid electric craft. You just need
to apply the information to your specific application.



"Heikki" wrote in message
...
John C. wrote:

Run it as a generator and use it to charge an oversized bank of
batteries.
With an electric motor you will gain variable speed and direction without
have an engineering nightmare.

I have been speculating about a diesel-electric propulsion for a smallish
sailboat. Does anyone have links to, or experience with, small electric
motors that are suitable for continuous use - most of my googling finds
bow
thrusters and other extra machinery.

I am thinking of a fairly small engine, say 5-10 Hp, to be used mostly in
manouvering in and out of marinas, and occasionally coming home from a
calm
sea. Would it make sense to mount the whole engine on the transom-hung
rudder? That way it could turn with the rudder, and give good steering in
both directions. When not in use, it could be lifted out of the water, so
I
could use a decent size of propeller for it.

Would anyone care to shoot the idea down before I get too attached to it.
The whole project is on a dreaming level, I won't be building anything for
the next many years. But I still want to design it as if I was going to
build it some day soon...

Regards

Heikki
(Copenhagen, Denmark)

inexpensive diesel engines
 

Richard van den Berg wrote:

Regular outboards do have a fair weight/hp compared to e-motor and
batteries. The only thin you have to worry about is fuel. Or how did you
plan to fill your batteries?

Oh, I was planning to have a diesel engine (and a generator) running most of
the time to provide the electricity. The idea was to be able to place the
generator engine where I wanted it, and the propelller(s) and the driving
engine where they would be most useful. Instead of a solid shaft, I would
have flexible cables in between. I could run it on the batteries for a
minutes, if I needed extra manouvering, but in most cases, the power would
come from the generator. Also, I was hoping that the electric propulsion
would be smaller and lighter, so it would be easier to lift out of the
water when going by sail...

- Heikki

inexpensive diesel engines
 

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:35:35 +0100, Heikki wrote:

Richard van den Berg wrote:

Regular outboards do have a fair weight/hp compared to e-motor and
batteries. The only thin you have to worry about is fuel. Or how did you
plan to fill your batteries?

Oh, I was planning to have a diesel engine (and a generator) running most of
the time to provide the electricity. The idea was to be able to place the
generator engine where I wanted it, and the propelller(s) and the driving
engine where they would be most useful. Instead of a solid shaft, I would
have flexible cables in between. I could run it on the batteries for a
minutes, if I needed extra manouvering, but in most cases, the power would
come from the generator. Also, I was hoping that the electric propulsion
would be smaller and lighter, so it would be easier to lift out of the
water when going by sail...

- Heikki


First of all, "there is no magic". If it takes, say, 10 H.P. (at the
propeller) to move your boat then regardless where you get it will
always require 10 H.P (at the propeller).

Second, the more devices you add between the prime mover and the
powered device the more losses you will have.

So, if you install a diesel engine, a generator, a battery bank, an
electric motor, cables and finally a propeller you are building in
losses at every stage between the diesel engine (prime mover) and the
propeller (powered device).

So, your 10 H.P. (at the propeller) plus losses result in the need for
a larger engine - say 12 H.P. Plus added initial cost, added problems
and added maintenance costs.

Unless you are talking about a really large vessel I don't believe
that there will be any advantage and probably several disadvantages in
using a diesel-electric drive.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

inexpensive diesel engines
 

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:35:35 +0100, Heikki wrote:

Richard van den Berg wrote:

Regular outboards do have a fair weight/hp compared to e-motor and
batteries. The only thin you have to worry about is fuel. Or how did you
plan to fill your batteries?

Oh, I was planning to have a diesel engine (and a generator) running most
of
the time to provide the electricity. The idea was to be able to place the
generator engine where I wanted it, and the propelller(s) and the driving
engine where they would be most useful. Instead of a solid shaft, I would
have flexible cables in between. I could run it on the batteries for a
minutes, if I needed extra manouvering, but in most cases, the power would
come from the generator. Also, I was hoping that the electric propulsion
would be smaller and lighter, so it would be easier to lift out of the
water when going by sail...

- Heikki


First of all, "there is no magic". If it takes, say, 10 H.P. (at the
propeller) to move your boat then regardless where you get it will
always require 10 H.P (at the propeller).

Second, the more devices you add between the prime mover and the
powered device the more losses you will have.

So, if you install a diesel engine, a generator, a battery bank, an
electric motor, cables and finally a propeller you are building in
losses at every stage between the diesel engine (prime mover) and the
propeller (powered device).

So, your 10 H.P. (at the propeller) plus losses result in the need for
a larger engine - say 12 H.P. Plus added initial cost, added problems
and added maintenance costs.

Unless you are talking about a really large vessel I don't believe
that there will be any advantage and probably several disadvantages in
using a diesel-electric drive.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

But since the torque is greatest at zero rpm. Probably need a lot less than
a 10 hp engine. The cable car system in San Francisco is run on one 1000 hp
electric motor.

inexpensive diesel engines
 

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:35:35 +0100 Heikki
) wrote:
Richard van den Berg wrote:

Regular outboards do have a fair weight/hp compared to e-motor and
batteries. The only thin you have to worry about is fuel. Or how did you
plan to fill your batteries?

Oh, I was planning to have a diesel engine (and a generator) running most of
the time to provide the electricity. The idea was to be able to place the
generator engine where I wanted it, and the propelller(s) and the driving
engine where they would be most useful. Instead of a solid shaft, I would
have flexible cables in between. I could run it on the batteries for a
minutes, if I needed extra manouvering, but in most cases, the power would
come from the generator. Also, I was hoping that the electric propulsion
would be smaller and lighter, so it would be easier to lift out of the
water when going by sail...

For 1 kW (1,34 hp) you can count on about 10 kg motor weight for
standard 3 fase 2900 rpm motors. For a lighter motor you might use one
with a permanent magnet, no idea what it will cost.

--
Richard
e-mail: vervang/replace invalid door/with NL.net

inexpensive diesel engines
 

Richard van den Berg wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:35:35 +0100 Heikki
) wrote:
Richard van den Berg wrote:

Regular outboards do have a fair weight/hp compared to e-motor and
batteries. The only thin you have to worry about is fuel. Or how did you
plan to fill your batteries?

Oh, I was planning to have a diesel engine (and a generator) running most of
the time to provide the electricity. The idea was to be able to place the
generator engine where I wanted it, and the propelller(s) and the driving
engine where they would be most useful. Instead of a solid shaft, I would
have flexible cables in between. I could run it on the batteries for a
minutes, if I needed extra manouvering, but in most cases, the power would
come from the generator. Also, I was hoping that the electric propulsion
would be smaller and lighter, so it would be easier to lift out of the
water when going by sail...

For 1 kW (1,34 hp) you can count on about 10 kg motor weight for
standard 3 fase 2900 rpm motors. For a lighter motor you might use one
with a permanent magnet, no idea what it will cost.



Well, it certainly makes no sense to hook up a small diesel engine to a
prop shaft and prop. After all, it's never been tried before.

inexpensive diesel engines
 

On Dec 16, 1:07 pm, HK wrote:
Richard van den Berg wrote:



On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:35:35 +0100 Heikki
) wrote:
Richard van den Berg wrote:

Regular outboards do have a fair weight/hp compared to e-motor and
batteries. The only thin you have to worry about is fuel. Or how did you
plan to fill your batteries?

Oh, I was planning to have a diesel engine (and a generator) running most of
the time to provide the electricity. The idea was to be able to place the
generator engine where I wanted it, and the propelller(s) and the driving
engine where they would be most useful. Instead of a solid shaft, I would
have flexible cables in between. I could run it on the batteries for a
minutes, if I needed extra manouvering, but in most cases, the power would
come from the generator. Also, I was hoping that the electric propulsion
would be smaller and lighter, so it would be easier to lift out of the
water when going by sail...

For 1 kW (1,34 hp) you can count on about 10 kg motor weight for
standard 3 fase 2900 rpm motors. For a lighter motor you might use one
with a permanent magnet, no idea what it will cost.

Well, it certainly makes no sense to hook up a small diesel engine to a
prop shaft and prop. After all, it's never been tried before.

West (Waste) Marine in their latest catalogue has a 6 hp electric
outboard, kinda expensive though. You could run a generator from a
small diesel like these Listers and have it charge a bank of batteries
that were your sailboat ballast and hav the batteries run your
electric outboard. Why carry around a couple thousand lbs of lead
ballast unless its going to do something like store electricity.

inexpensive diesel engines
 

On 2007-12-15 03:50:00 -0500, Heikki said:

I have been speculating about a diesel-electric propulsion for a
smallish sailboat. Does anyone have links to, or experience with, small
electric motors that are suitable for continuous use - most of my
googling finds bow thrusters and other extra machinery.

I am thinking of a fairly small engine, say 5-10 Hp, to be used mostly
in manouvering in and out of marinas, and occasionally coming home from
a calm sea. Would it make sense to mount the whole engine on the
transom-hung rudder? That way it could turn with the rudder, and give
good steering in both directions. When not in use, it could be lifted
out of the water, so I could use a decent size of propeller for it.

For that sort of application, I'd go with a largish solar cell and
battery bank. During the week, let the sun charge things up, then use
it. Our little 10w solar cell would easily give a hour or two usage
with the new electric outboards reviewed in Practical Sailor recently.
Just in case, I'd have a little generator, but probably gas for light
weight.

http://www.practical-sailor.com/ for the outboard review.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

inexpensive diesel engines
 

On 15 Dec 2007 21:36:24 GMT, Richard van den Berg
wrote:

Regular outboards do have a fair weight/hp compared to e-motor and
batteries. The only thin you have to worry about is fuel. Or how did you
plan to fill your batteries?

Somebody makes a four horsepower electric outboard. 48 Volt.

Casady

inexpensive diesel engines
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On 15 Dec 2007 21:36:24 GMT, Richard van den Berg
wrote:

Regular outboards do have a fair weight/hp compared to e-motor and
batteries. The only thin you have to worry about is fuel. Or how did you
plan to fill your batteries?

Somebody makes a four horsepower electric outboard. 48 Volt.

Casady


The Navigator we had had two, 5 hp electric motors. One was the bow
thruster, the other the stern thruster.
12 volts. Battery draw was over 300 amps (fused at 400).

Duty cycle was limited to about 10 percent. Not much good for trolling.

Eisboch