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Playing with a Macro Extension Lens...
"HK" wrote in message
. .. JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:02:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: You have to learn to take pictures which are 99% correct when you click the shutter, and forget that there's software, the modern equivalent of the darkroom. Shut of ALL focus and exposure automation, and never mind the bad eyes excuse. Alfred Eisenstadt took nice sharp pictures with a manual focus camera until he was much older than you. I disagree with that approach. In my opinon, you start with the automagic components and see what the camera is using as a base line for most of the images you take. Once you get a feel for how the camera looks at the world, then you start experimenting with the manual functions bracketing the auto features base settings. You have to have a feel for it first. Admittedly, John is using a hammer to drive a stick pin approach when he'd probably be better off with a really nice point-and-shoot, but he has it, so coaching him through the proess is the better way to go. OK, but one needs to understand what light meters can and cannot do. One thing they can't do is know what you're photographing. An interesting exercise is to evenly light 3 different flat objects: One black, one grey, one white. Fill the viewfinder with each object and take a picture, letting the camera choose the exposure. Of, if in manual mode, "obey" the exposure meter. The results should raise questions in the user's mind immediately. I don't see how you can take decent indoor portrait shots without a good flash meter or difficult outdoor shots without a light meter. There are some combo units that do the job. It's unlikely that the vast majority of people will buy a flash meter. But, since flash is usually the dominant light source for indoor pictures, a few test shots will often solve the problem. With digital, you see the results right away. With film, you just have to know the characteristics of the film you're using. There's a guy around here who does a lot of band pictures with flash, and his shots are gorgeous. He uses some sort of high end Canon camera. He shuts off all automation and tweaks the manual settings to an extent that disagrees completely with what the camera says is right. Outdoors, a separate meter is equally unlikely for most users. A camera with a spot metering option is helpful. For photographing people, using your own hand as the meter target is a good trick for setting exposure, assuming it can be metered in the same light as the subject. But, once that's done, you have to have a way to tell the auto exposure thing to leave your settings alone. If the color of your hand doesn't closely match the key subject, then you have to make adjustments based on your knowledge of grey scales. If the light's not changing quickly and constantly, one adjustment should be all you need. As far as John's problem with manual focus, I wonder if his camera's split prism isn't up to par. Or, maybe it hasn't got one at all. Even when I was 20, I ran into occasional situations where focusing would've been difficult without that tool. It's there for a reason, not just for people with bad eyes. It's fast, too. http://www.normankoren.com/zonesystem.html http://www.kodak.com/cluster/global/...f9/index.shtml http://www.normankoren.com/digital_tonality.html |
Playing with a Macro Extension Lens...
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote: JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:02:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: You have to learn to take pictures which are 99% correct when you click the shutter, and forget that there's software, the modern equivalent of the darkroom. Shut of ALL focus and exposure automation, and never mind the bad eyes excuse. Alfred Eisenstadt took nice sharp pictures with a manual focus camera until he was much older than you. I disagree with that approach. In my opinon, you start with the automagic components and see what the camera is using as a base line for most of the images you take. Once you get a feel for how the camera looks at the world, then you start experimenting with the manual functions bracketing the auto features base settings. You have to have a feel for it first. Admittedly, John is using a hammer to drive a stick pin approach when he'd probably be better off with a really nice point-and-shoot, but he has it, so coaching him through the proess is the better way to go. OK, but one needs to understand what light meters can and cannot do. One thing they can't do is know what you're photographing. An interesting exercise is to evenly light 3 different flat objects: One black, one grey, one white. Fill the viewfinder with each object and take a picture, letting the camera choose the exposure. Of, if in manual mode, "obey" the exposure meter. The results should raise questions in the user's mind immediately. I don't see how you can take decent indoor portrait shots without a good flash meter or difficult outdoor shots without a light meter. There are some combo units that do the job. Harry, You seem to know a lot about photography, but all I have seen you post are really crappy snapshots. I know I take some really crappy photos, but I am just learning. Here's your answer: I don't post my professional work in usenet, either my writing or my photography. I use |
Playing with a Macro Extension Lens...
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:47:31 -0500, HK wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:02:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: You have to learn to take pictures which are 99% correct when you click the shutter, and forget that there's software, the modern equivalent of the darkroom. Shut of ALL focus and exposure automation, and never mind the bad eyes excuse. Alfred Eisenstadt took nice sharp pictures with a manual focus camera until he was much older than you. I disagree with that approach. In my opinon, you start with the automagic components and see what the camera is using as a base line for most of the images you take. Once you get a feel for how the camera looks at the world, then you start experimenting with the manual functions bracketing the auto features base settings. You have to have a feel for it first. Admittedly, John is using a hammer to drive a stick pin approach when he'd probably be better off with a really nice point-and-shoot, but he has it, so coaching him through the proess is the better way to go. OK, but one needs to understand what light meters can and cannot do. One thing they can't do is know what you're photographing. An interesting exercise is to evenly light 3 different flat objects: One black, one grey, one white. Fill the viewfinder with each object and take a picture, letting the camera choose the exposure. Of, if in manual mode, "obey" the exposure meter. The results should raise questions in the user's mind immediately. I don't see how you can take decent indoor portrait shots without a good flash meter or difficult outdoor shots without a light meter. There are some combo units that do the job. Indoor: http://tinyurl.com/38736z Outdoor: http://tinyurl.com/yu575t Easy. -- John H |
Playing with a Macro Extension Lens...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"HK" wrote in message . .. JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:02:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: You have to learn to take pictures which are 99% correct when you click the shutter, and forget that there's software, the modern equivalent of the darkroom. Shut of ALL focus and exposure automation, and never mind the bad eyes excuse. Alfred Eisenstadt took nice sharp pictures with a manual focus camera until he was much older than you. I disagree with that approach. In my opinon, you start with the automagic components and see what the camera is using as a base line for most of the images you take. Once you get a feel for how the camera looks at the world, then you start experimenting with the manual functions bracketing the auto features base settings. You have to have a feel for it first. Admittedly, John is using a hammer to drive a stick pin approach when he'd probably be better off with a really nice point-and-shoot, but he has it, so coaching him through the proess is the better way to go. OK, but one needs to understand what light meters can and cannot do. One thing they can't do is know what you're photographing. An interesting exercise is to evenly light 3 different flat objects: One black, one grey, one white. Fill the viewfinder with each object and take a picture, letting the camera choose the exposure. Of, if in manual mode, "obey" the exposure meter. The results should raise questions in the user's mind immediately. I don't see how you can take decent indoor portrait shots without a good flash meter or difficult outdoor shots without a light meter. There are some combo units that do the job. It's unlikely that the vast majority of people will buy a flash meter. But, since flash is usually the dominant light source for indoor pictures, a few test shots will often solve the problem. With digital, you see the results right away. With film, you just have to know the characteristics of the film you're using. There's a guy around here who does a lot of band pictures with flash, and his shots are gorgeous. He uses some sort of high end Canon camera. He shuts off all automation and tweaks the manual settings to an extent that disagrees completely with what the camera says is right. Outdoors, a separate meter is equally unlikely for most users. A camera with a spot metering option is helpful. For photographing people, using your own hand as the meter target is a good trick for setting exposure, assuming it can be metered in the same light as the subject. But, once that's done, you have to have a way to tell the auto exposure thing to leave your settings alone. If the color of your hand doesn't closely match the key subject, then you have to make adjustments based on your knowledge of grey scales. If the light's not changing quickly and constantly, one adjustment should be all you need. As far as John's problem with manual focus, I wonder if his camera's split prism isn't up to par. Or, maybe it hasn't got one at all. Even when I was 20, I ran into occasional situations where focusing would've been difficult without that tool. It's there for a reason, not just for people with bad eyes. It's fast, too. http://www.normankoren.com/zonesystem.html http://www.kodak.com/cluster/global/...f9/index.shtml http://www.normankoren.com/digital_tonality.html I don't know what camera Herring is using these days, but if it is a digital nikon "slr," then it doesn't have a split prism. It takes a lot of practice to properly focus one of these new digital slrs manually. Even on pre-digital SLRs, though, once you got beyond a certain focal length, maybe 105 mm, the damned split prism would black out on one side, so I simply went to a plain focusing screen. Life was certainly easier and simpler in the days of TriX, PlusX, KodaChrome II and Kodacolor! |
Playing with a Macro Extension Lens...
John H. wrote:
Oh. It was a snapshot. Then why worry about it? I expect my snapshots to have a bit of quality. You know, like the owls. JohnH, I am not as experienced a photographer as Harry, and don't use an additional flash meter and light meter, but am working on more effectively using the on camera metering options. You have the option of using a matrix, center weighted or spot metering, at the flick of a switch. I took a photo class run by a professional photographer ((http://www.nikoniansacademy.com/winstonHall.html) who told me you can actually use the in camera light meter the same way one would use a separate light meter, by using the AE-L (auto-exposure lock button) located on the back of the camera. You take the light reading of your subject, lock the exposure, than go back and compose the shot. Again, I am a real rookie who has never used a separate light meter, and am only basing my comments on a professional photographer recommendation who owned and used a Nikon D200 in his business, so take my comments for what they are worth. |
Playing with a Macro Extension Lens...
John H. wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:47:31 -0500, HK wrote: JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:02:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: You have to learn to take pictures which are 99% correct when you click the shutter, and forget that there's software, the modern equivalent of the darkroom. Shut of ALL focus and exposure automation, and never mind the bad eyes excuse. Alfred Eisenstadt took nice sharp pictures with a manual focus camera until he was much older than you. I disagree with that approach. In my opinon, you start with the automagic components and see what the camera is using as a base line for most of the images you take. Once you get a feel for how the camera looks at the world, then you start experimenting with the manual functions bracketing the auto features base settings. You have to have a feel for it first. Admittedly, John is using a hammer to drive a stick pin approach when he'd probably be better off with a really nice point-and-shoot, but he has it, so coaching him through the proess is the better way to go. OK, but one needs to understand what light meters can and cannot do. One thing they can't do is know what you're photographing. An interesting exercise is to evenly light 3 different flat objects: One black, one grey, one white. Fill the viewfinder with each object and take a picture, letting the camera choose the exposure. Of, if in manual mode, "obey" the exposure meter. The results should raise questions in the user's mind immediately. I don't see how you can take decent indoor portrait shots without a good flash meter or difficult outdoor shots without a light meter. There are some combo units that do the job. Indoor: http://tinyurl.com/38736z Outdoor: http://tinyurl.com/yu575t Easy. Very nice snapshots, John, but not what I was discussing. |
Playing with a Macro Extension Lens...
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
John H. wrote: Oh. It was a snapshot. Then why worry about it? I expect my snapshots to have a bit of quality. You know, like the owls. JohnH, I am not as experienced a photographer as Harry, and don't use an additional flash meter and light meter, but am working on more effectively using the on camera metering options. You have the option of using a matrix, center weighted or spot metering, at the flick of a switch. I took a photo class run by a professional photographer ((http://www.nikoniansacademy.com/winstonHall.html) who told me you can actually use the in camera light meter the same way one would use a separate light meter, by using the AE-L (auto-exposure lock button) located on the back of the camera. You take the light reading of your subject, lock the exposure, than go back and compose the shot. Again, I am a real rookie who has never used a separate light meter, and am only basing my comments on a professional photographer recommendation who owned and used a Nikon D200 in his business, so take my comments for what they are worth. I meant to include this link for a simple explanation of the zone system. http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...a-metering.htm I really need to read this often, to refresh my memory. |
Playing with a Macro Extension Lens...
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:31:44 -0500, HK wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "HK" wrote in message . .. JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:02:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: You have to learn to take pictures which are 99% correct when you click the shutter, and forget that there's software, the modern equivalent of the darkroom. Shut of ALL focus and exposure automation, and never mind the bad eyes excuse. Alfred Eisenstadt took nice sharp pictures with a manual focus camera until he was much older than you. I disagree with that approach. In my opinon, you start with the automagic components and see what the camera is using as a base line for most of the images you take. Once you get a feel for how the camera looks at the world, then you start experimenting with the manual functions bracketing the auto features base settings. You have to have a feel for it first. Admittedly, John is using a hammer to drive a stick pin approach when he'd probably be better off with a really nice point-and-shoot, but he has it, so coaching him through the proess is the better way to go. OK, but one needs to understand what light meters can and cannot do. One thing they can't do is know what you're photographing. An interesting exercise is to evenly light 3 different flat objects: One black, one grey, one white. Fill the viewfinder with each object and take a picture, letting the camera choose the exposure. Of, if in manual mode, "obey" the exposure meter. The results should raise questions in the user's mind immediately. I don't see how you can take decent indoor portrait shots without a good flash meter or difficult outdoor shots without a light meter. There are some combo units that do the job. It's unlikely that the vast majority of people will buy a flash meter. But, since flash is usually the dominant light source for indoor pictures, a few test shots will often solve the problem. With digital, you see the results right away. With film, you just have to know the characteristics of the film you're using. There's a guy around here who does a lot of band pictures with flash, and his shots are gorgeous. He uses some sort of high end Canon camera. He shuts off all automation and tweaks the manual settings to an extent that disagrees completely with what the camera says is right. Outdoors, a separate meter is equally unlikely for most users. A camera with a spot metering option is helpful. For photographing people, using your own hand as the meter target is a good trick for setting exposure, assuming it can be metered in the same light as the subject. But, once that's done, you have to have a way to tell the auto exposure thing to leave your settings alone. If the color of your hand doesn't closely match the key subject, then you have to make adjustments based on your knowledge of grey scales. If the light's not changing quickly and constantly, one adjustment should be all you need. As far as John's problem with manual focus, I wonder if his camera's split prism isn't up to par. Or, maybe it hasn't got one at all. Even when I was 20, I ran into occasional situations where focusing would've been difficult without that tool. It's there for a reason, not just for people with bad eyes. It's fast, too. http://www.normankoren.com/zonesystem.html http://www.kodak.com/cluster/global/...f9/index.shtml http://www.normankoren.com/digital_tonality.html I don't know what camera Herring is using these days, but if it is a digital nikon "slr," then it doesn't have a split prism. It takes a lot of practice to properly focus one of these new digital slrs manually. Even on pre-digital SLRs, though, once you got beyond a certain focal length, maybe 105 mm, the damned split prism would black out on one side, so I simply went to a plain focusing screen. Life was certainly easier and simpler in the days of TriX, PlusX, KodaChrome II and Kodacolor! Harry, I'm using the D200. That's the one you said wasn't worth the cost when you had your D70, but then you bought the D200 - remember? -- John H |
Playing with a Macro Extension Lens...
HK wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "HK" wrote in message . .. JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:02:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: You have to learn to take pictures which are 99% correct when you click the shutter, and forget that there's software, the modern equivalent of the darkroom. Shut of ALL focus and exposure automation, and never mind the bad eyes excuse. Alfred Eisenstadt took nice sharp pictures with a manual focus camera until he was much older than you. I disagree with that approach. In my opinon, you start with the automagic components and see what the camera is using as a base line for most of the images you take. Once you get a feel for how the camera looks at the world, then you start experimenting with the manual functions bracketing the auto features base settings. You have to have a feel for it first. Admittedly, John is using a hammer to drive a stick pin approach when he'd probably be better off with a really nice point-and-shoot, but he has it, so coaching him through the proess is the better way to go. OK, but one needs to understand what light meters can and cannot do. One thing they can't do is know what you're photographing. An interesting exercise is to evenly light 3 different flat objects: One black, one grey, one white. Fill the viewfinder with each object and take a picture, letting the camera choose the exposure. Of, if in manual mode, "obey" the exposure meter. The results should raise questions in the user's mind immediately. I don't see how you can take decent indoor portrait shots without a good flash meter or difficult outdoor shots without a light meter. There are some combo units that do the job. It's unlikely that the vast majority of people will buy a flash meter. But, since flash is usually the dominant light source for indoor pictures, a few test shots will often solve the problem. With digital, you see the results right away. With film, you just have to know the characteristics of the film you're using. There's a guy around here who does a lot of band pictures with flash, and his shots are gorgeous. He uses some sort of high end Canon camera. He shuts off all automation and tweaks the manual settings to an extent that disagrees completely with what the camera says is right. Outdoors, a separate meter is equally unlikely for most users. A camera with a spot metering option is helpful. For photographing people, using your own hand as the meter target is a good trick for setting exposure, assuming it can be metered in the same light as the subject. But, once that's done, you have to have a way to tell the auto exposure thing to leave your settings alone. If the color of your hand doesn't closely match the key subject, then you have to make adjustments based on your knowledge of grey scales. If the light's not changing quickly and constantly, one adjustment should be all you need. As far as John's problem with manual focus, I wonder if his camera's split prism isn't up to par. Or, maybe it hasn't got one at all. Even when I was 20, I ran into occasional situations where focusing would've been difficult without that tool. It's there for a reason, not just for people with bad eyes. It's fast, too. http://www.normankoren.com/zonesystem.html http://www.kodak.com/cluster/global/...f9/index.shtml http://www.normankoren.com/digital_tonality.html I don't know what camera Herring is using these days, but if it is a digital nikon "slr," then it doesn't have a split prism. It takes a lot of practice to properly focus one of these new digital slrs manually. Even on pre-digital SLRs, though, once you got beyond a certain focal length, maybe 105 mm, the damned split prism would black out on one side, so I simply went to a plain focusing screen. Actually it is not as hard to manually focus as one would think with the Nikon D200. If you manually focus on the subject, a light on the far left in the camera viewfinder will come on when you are focus, then you can compose your shot. |
Playing with a Macro Extension Lens...
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:33:16 -0500, HK wrote:
John H. wrote: On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:47:31 -0500, HK wrote: JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:02:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: You have to learn to take pictures which are 99% correct when you click the shutter, and forget that there's software, the modern equivalent of the darkroom. Shut of ALL focus and exposure automation, and never mind the bad eyes excuse. Alfred Eisenstadt took nice sharp pictures with a manual focus camera until he was much older than you. I disagree with that approach. In my opinon, you start with the automagic components and see what the camera is using as a base line for most of the images you take. Once you get a feel for how the camera looks at the world, then you start experimenting with the manual functions bracketing the auto features base settings. You have to have a feel for it first. Admittedly, John is using a hammer to drive a stick pin approach when he'd probably be better off with a really nice point-and-shoot, but he has it, so coaching him through the proess is the better way to go. OK, but one needs to understand what light meters can and cannot do. One thing they can't do is know what you're photographing. An interesting exercise is to evenly light 3 different flat objects: One black, one grey, one white. Fill the viewfinder with each object and take a picture, letting the camera choose the exposure. Of, if in manual mode, "obey" the exposure meter. The results should raise questions in the user's mind immediately. I don't see how you can take decent indoor portrait shots without a good flash meter or difficult outdoor shots without a light meter. There are some combo units that do the job. Indoor: http://tinyurl.com/38736z Outdoor: http://tinyurl.com/yu575t Easy. Very nice snapshots, John, but not what I was discussing. I'm sure you would have used floodlights, light meters, reflective umbrellas, and a nice secular backdrop, and got it all in about 12 seconds. -- John H |
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