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Hey Gene, I heard the local radio guy talking about delays at ATL, and
he's a pilot with a commercial rating. Well, in talking about delays
he said the time would grow today because of crosswind landings. In
that statement he said that the traffic pattern gets spread out
(larger) when there is cross winds. Why? Unless it's just because of
ground tracking on the windward side, or just to get lined up out
farther?

On Nov 6, 9:47 am, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 14:01:07 -0000, penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Hey Gene, I heard the local radio guy talking about delays at ATL, and
he's a pilot with a commercial rating. Well, in talking about delays
he said the time would grow today because of crosswind landings. In
that statement he said that the traffic pattern gets spread out
(larger) when there is cross winds. Why? Unless it's just because of
ground tracking on the windward side, or just to get lined up out
farther?

ATL is a TCA, so I doubt they are going to help anybody out by letting
them get lined up any farther out.

Imagine on takeoff you are told to maintain runway heading..... you
are watching your DG or compass and holding that heading... but the
wind is blowing you sideways (although your A/C is pointing in the
right direction) and causing you to crab "off course." This works
because everybody is blowing about the same amount.

Imagine the same thing, but on approach. Everybody is being pushed
sideways by the wind until they are established on the localizer or
GPS approach. It makes things messy, but predictable.

I'm not sure I buy it, though. ATL's METAR is:

KATL 061140Z 061212 29015G21KT P6SM SCT025 BKN045
TEMPO 1214 BKN025 OVC045
FM1500 31017G27KT P6SM SKC
FM2300 32012G18KT P6SM SKC
FM0500 33010KT P6SM SKC=

Thus, after about 10AM there is about a 40 degree crosswind at 17kt
gusting to 27kt, but the sky is clear with 6 miles of visibility. Most
pilots will be able to cancel IFR and line up on the runway visually.
Any aircraft with a demonstrated crosswind component of 15kt should
have no trouble negotiating the conditions..... except for that
adrenalin soaked last few feet of getting in (and staying in) the
center of the runway with gusting winds. For a larger aircraft this is
pretty much a non-event. Puddle jumpers will be affected.

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

I understand what you are saying about the approach, but this
particular pilot and radio guy was saying that the pattern itself gets
"larger". That I don't understand, unless it's just the windward leg
because of ground tracking.

On Nov 6, 2:06 pm, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:05:42 -0000, penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Nov 6, 11:37 am, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 15:05:22 -0000, penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

I understand what you are saying about the approach, but this
particular pilot and radio guy was saying that the pattern itself gets
"larger". That I don't understand, unless it's just the windward leg
because of ground tracking.

That would be it...... ATC has to allow for where they think an A/C is
going to drift to. It is a pretty accurate SWAG, but they enlarge the
pattern just in case.

Relax... current report is:
METAR KATL 061552Z 33015KT 10SM CLR 12/M04 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP198
T01171044

Winds down to 15kts.... just another day in paradise! That is...
except for the seaplane pilots on approach to Puddle Lanier....

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

Yeah, I had seen that the winds were calming down. And, there actually
is more than one seaplane on Lanier. Some people seem to have more
money than they have sense! On to another plane subject. My uncle
worked on Corsairs for awhile, man in his old age he loved to talk to
anyone who would listen about those planes! I took him up to
Charleston to the aircraft carrier on Patriot's Point. I knew they had
a Corsair in the carrier because I'd been there before. I didn't tell
him. When he saw that thing you could see tears well up in his eyes,
and he just stood there staring at it for a good ten minutes. THEN the
stories came, one's where he actually pointed out pieces. I still have
all of his old repair manuals, etc. from his Navy and private days.
This includes where he'd reparied private aircraft and signed off on
them, etc. He even knew how to work on fabric airplanes, doping, etc.
When he was long retired, I built a homemade hovercraft just to get
him involved. I think that was the last thing we worked on together.

I know what you mean....

One of the guys I work with was based on the USS Lexington. He lost
his plane (TBM Avenger) and all of his gear when the ship was lost in
the Battle of the Coral Sea. He made it off of the sinking Lexington
onto a destroyer and finally ended up aboard the USS Yorktown (CV-5).
Today some of his orders, following the sinking, are on display on
board the USS Yorktown (CV-10) in Charleston, SC.

And he has a ton of really neat stories. He'll soon turn 88 and is
thinking seriously about retiring. I hope he'll continue to drop by
and continue the story telling.....

PS
We're covering the control surfaces of a DC-3 with fabric, right now.
The rib stitching will never end.....

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, I know what you mean! In my fascination with anything
mechanical, during summer vacation when I was in sixth or seventh
grade, I'd go to work with him. To him, because of his values (which
rubbed off on me) me going to work with him, even though I was a kid,
meant work! I've had fabric dope drying on me from the top of my head
to my toes!! The books I have of his from the Navy days are a
fantastic read. I can pick one up, like Aviation Aircraft Engine
Maintenance and just sit and read. What is really fascinating is that
they didn't go to the parts store for every little item, they
fabricated it! I've seen him take out a failing oil tank, and build
one, no CAD plans, nothing but some sheet steel and an oxy-acetylene
torch to weld with. I've got alot of that in me. My wife, who's dad
was fairly handy around his house and VW, was and soemtimes still is
at the skills I have aquired. We grew up on a farm, and learned early
on if it broke, you fixed it, plain and simple. Anywho, for some
reason, having been around him, his ways and his books, when I had a
particularly hard go of it, I can read in one of his books, etc, and
find peace! I've got a book for flying the AT-6 trainer (he was flying
a lot in the Navy because at one point he was an aviation cadet) You
took that book, read it, went and watched a movie, then the next day
went up with an instructor and flew it! You talk about a spartan
aircraft, that was it! A powerplant, airframe, controls, and radio!

On Nov 6, 2:06 pm, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:05:42 -0000, penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Nov 6, 11:37 am, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 15:05:22 -0000, penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

I understand what you are saying about the approach, but this
particular pilot and radio guy was saying that the pattern itself gets
"larger". That I don't understand, unless it's just the windward leg
because of ground tracking.

That would be it...... ATC has to allow for where they think an A/C is
going to drift to. It is a pretty accurate SWAG, but they enlarge the
pattern just in case.

Relax... current report is:
METAR KATL 061552Z 33015KT 10SM CLR 12/M04 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP198
T01171044

Winds down to 15kts.... just another day in paradise! That is...
except for the seaplane pilots on approach to Puddle Lanier....

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

Yeah, I had seen that the winds were calming down. And, there actually
is more than one seaplane on Lanier. Some people seem to have more
money than they have sense! On to another plane subject. My uncle
worked on Corsairs for awhile, man in his old age he loved to talk to
anyone who would listen about those planes! I took him up to
Charleston to the aircraft carrier on Patriot's Point. I knew they had
a Corsair in the carrier because I'd been there before. I didn't tell
him. When he saw that thing you could see tears well up in his eyes,
and he just stood there staring at it for a good ten minutes. THEN the
stories came, one's where he actually pointed out pieces. I still have
all of his old repair manuals, etc. from his Navy and private days.
This includes where he'd reparied private aircraft and signed off on
them, etc. He even knew how to work on fabric airplanes, doping, etc.
When he was long retired, I built a homemade hovercraft just to get
him involved. I think that was the last thing we worked on together.

I know what you mean....

One of the guys I work with was based on the USS Lexington. He lost
his plane (TBM Avenger) and all of his gear when the ship was lost in
the Battle of the Coral Sea. He made it off of the sinking Lexington
onto a destroyer and finally ended up aboard the USS Yorktown (CV-5).
Today some of his orders, following the sinking, are on display on
board the USS Yorktown (CV-10) in Charleston, SC.

And he has a ton of really neat stories. He'll soon turn 88 and is
thinking seriously about retiring. I hope he'll continue to drop by
and continue the story telling.....

PS
We're covering the control surfaces of a DC-3 with fabric, right now.
The rib stitching will never end.....

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, and if you have any pictures of your DC-3 project, let's see them!
I've flown in several, they used to use them for skydiving alot. I've
also flown in a Ford Trimotor! Like flying in my metal shed!!!

On Nov 6, 6:55 pm, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:30:16 -0000, penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:
|
|Oh, and if you have any pictures of your DC-3 project, let's see them!
|I've flown in several, they used to use them for skydiving alot. I've
|also flown in a Ford Trimotor! Like flying in my metal shed!!!

Ok.... shot a few pics of the DC-3 control surfaces, a P&W R-2800, a
P&W PT-6, a Stinson L-5, a BirdMan, our B727-100, an OX-5, and an
Allison 250.... I'll figure out how to display them, tomorrow.

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
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Cool, can't wait! And you was right on the money, I emailed the
reporter and here was his reply:

Curtis, you've got the idea. When the crosswinds are strong,
controllers tell me the downwind leg is flown farther out, then the
final is slower because they're also into the wind. While the flight
path is only a matter of minutes (or fractions) longer, when you add
up all those flights for three runways, the large numbers really add
up to a delay. Of course, when the wind dies down, things get back to
normal.

On Nov 7, 10:20 am, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:38:38 -0000, penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Cool, can't wait!......

Wait no longer! ...uh.... well, they may be kinda slow to load....http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/image...oogiespics.htm

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

Sweet, man that's alot of stitching! Oh, and the Curtis OX-5 is sweet.
In Hammondsport, NY where Curtis had his shop, there is a really neat
little museum. He flew his first pieces on Lake Keuka, here's some
links.

http://www.glennhcurtissmuseum.org/

http://www.hammondsport.com/

http://www.keukawinetrail.com/