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The Death of RBP
I'm calling it. 17:34 local time, Oct 27, 2007. Cause of Death;
overwhelming spam, apathy, sex ads, garbage and general toxicity. We should have taken better care of her... --riverman |
The Death of RBP
riverman wrote:
I'm calling it. 17:34 local time, Oct 27, 2007. Cause of Death; overwhelming spam, apathy, sex ads, garbage and general toxicity. We should have taken better care of her... Almost everything comes to an end, someday or other... It was good to have enjoyed the hayday of RBP, an experience I will always treasure. It was also fun to have met so many RBP'ers, including you, Myron. I won't forget that either! -- Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://kayaker.nl/ |
The Death of RBP
On Oct 27, 4:36?am, riverman wrote:
I'm calling it. 17:34 local time, Oct 27, 2007. Cause of Death; overwhelming spam, apathy, sex ads, garbage and general toxicity. We should have taken better care of her... --riverman Riverman; I would have to agree. We can all recall this group's days in the sun. It was a resouce that had an effect. It was quoted in magazines and books. It was lively and vibrant, full of personalities. It created a community of people we hoped to meet some day. And some we hoped to avoid. Now it is just an empty screen Did we simply change venues, or did we lose something more? Did we disappear into the flow of ordinary lives, driven now by family and careers rather than a sense of outdoor adventure? I think there is more to it than just the hassles of cyberspace. I think we changed as people, reflecting perhaps the larger divide that exists in this country. I sense we are no longer focus on the common values that unite us, but on the differences that separate us. Maybe there is a fixed sized appetite for a sense of community. Like heat, it can only be felt when it is concentrated and not diffused. What we used to share in this newsgroup in a concentrated form exists now only in its more diffuse form of electronic communication that runs all through our daily lives. We have moved from a small town community to the heart of Manhattan. The amount of ourselves that we can share with others moves toward zero. I miss that sense of community. Now standing on the threshold of true Geezerhood, I think about moving from the city back to a small town in the hope that I can become a member of physical community. I think I might try Ely, MN. There has to be enough birds of similar feather there that one might feel at home. I am now 58. When I was 49, I published the list of goals I called "A River Rat looks at 50". I take great satisfaction in those goals that were accomplished. Many others were not. Some, like a Grand Canyon lottery slot, still remain on the list. Those that were not accomplished were mostly replaced by new and different goals. These things exist in a window of spirit and opportunity. New demands arise, old wants get replaced. But the spirit of adventure still remains strong. Blakely -- Blakely LaCroix Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA r.b.p clique member #86. "The best adventure is yet to come" |
The Death of RBP
A sad day for sure from an avid reader, occasional contributor.
But in some respects, I think this also reflects the state of the paddling community, especially open boaters on the West Coast. It used to be our rivers were a busy place with lots of folks of both persuasion out there enjoying a great sport. Did anyone catch "My Turn" in Newsweek? Now it seems that every other outing, our group is the only one out there and it's getting smaller too........We're getting older, our boats are getting older and neither are replaceable to a certain degree. Yes, along with the creaky joints, our interests are slowly shifting or is it expanding? Be it better or worse. But as long as the knees still bend, the ankles still flex and the wrists/fingers are willing to grip, we'll still paddle. Rivers may morph into the bay, slough, and lagoons, but the spirit carries on! RIP? hopefully not yet Carol "Railtramp" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 27, 4:36?am, riverman wrote: I'm calling it. 17:34 local time, Oct 27, 2007. Cause of Death; overwhelming spam, apathy, sex ads, garbage and general toxicity. We should have taken better care of her... --riverman Riverman; I would have to agree. We can all recall this group's days in the sun. It was a resouce that had an effect. It was quoted in magazines and books. It was lively and vibrant, full of personalities. It created a community of people we hoped to meet some day. And some we hoped to avoid. Now it is just an empty screen Did we simply change venues, or did we lose something more? Did we disappear into the flow of ordinary lives, driven now by family and careers rather than a sense of outdoor adventure? I think there is more to it than just the hassles of cyberspace. I think we changed as people, reflecting perhaps the larger divide that exists in this country. I sense we are no longer focus on the common values that unite us, but on the differences that separate us. Maybe there is a fixed sized appetite for a sense of community. Like heat, it can only be felt when it is concentrated and not diffused. What we used to share in this newsgroup in a concentrated form exists now only in its more diffuse form of electronic communication that runs all through our daily lives. We have moved from a small town community to the heart of Manhattan. The amount of ourselves that we can share with others moves toward zero. I miss that sense of community. Now standing on the threshold of true Geezerhood, I think about moving from the city back to a small town in the hope that I can become a member of physical community. I think I might try Ely, MN. There has to be enough birds of similar feather there that one might feel at home. I am now 58. When I was 49, I published the list of goals I called "A River Rat looks at 50". I take great satisfaction in those goals that were accomplished. Many others were not. Some, like a Grand Canyon lottery slot, still remain on the list. Those that were not accomplished were mostly replaced by new and different goals. These things exist in a window of spirit and opportunity. New demands arise, old wants get replaced. But the spirit of adventure still remains strong. Blakely -- Blakely LaCroix Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA r.b.p clique member #86. "The best adventure is yet to come" |
The Death of RBP
riverman wrote:
: I'm calling it. 17:34 local time, Oct 27, 2007. Cause of Death; : overwhelming spam, apathy, sex ads, garbage and general toxicity. : We should have taken better care of her... You should see my spam folder... it's impossible to read or reply to emails at this point... -- John Nelson ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org (A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell) |
The Death of RBP
Melissa (bonny wee boaty :-)) asked me to post her reply to Myron's
post, due to her having some problems posting it to RBP on her own, so here it is: Hi riverman, On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 02:36:25 -0700, you wrote: I'm calling it. 17:34 local time, Oct 27, 2007. Cause of Death; overwhelming spam, apathy, sex ads, garbage and general toxicity. We should have taken better care of her... As I sit here waiting for my shuttle driver (going for a one-way down-the-coast paddle today! :-) , I stumble upon rbp, and find this sad thread. Imminent demise or not, I'd like to take this moment to express my gratitude for rbp (and the apparently nearly dead rbpt as well)...at least for "what it was". For the past few years, I've mainly just lurked here...when I feel I have the time (after all, I'd rather be paddling than sitting here in front of the computer). As a primarily solo paddler--both by choice and local circumstance--the Internet (news groups, email lists, and message boards) has been where I enjoy sharing my love of paddling with others; without necessarily having to paddle with them! ;-)). In this sense, rbp and rbpt have been, all things considered, a wonderful experience for me, and I have all the great people who have populated these news groups over the years to thank for this. Though I don't have time to mention everyone, just the people I see so far in this thread would certainly be at the top of such a list, so I'll take this opportunity to thank all of you. Thanks! :-) Perhaps at one point in time, news groups were indeed just about the "only game in town" with regards to Internet discussion forums, but now, and for the past several years, email lists and website forums have come into their own as well. Even if some news groups do fade away, I don't think that we paddlers will ever stop finding ways to reach out to each other in one way or another. I still participate in several of these types of forums, though for the past few years, I've cut down considerably; mainly due to my preference for spending more time on the water than on the keyboard (there was a point, several years ago, that I did feel I was spending time at the computer at the expense of potential water time, and I found that to be an unacceptable situation). It's time for me to now climb into my paddling gear and do what I'm supposed to be doing, so I'll sign off for now. It would be lovely to see rbp come back to life, but even if it doesn't, it will always be remembered fondly, and I will always appreciate the people who have made it something worth remembering. Thanks again! :-) -- Melissa -- Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://kayaker.nl/ |
The Death of RBP
Gee my sever must be taking great care of me. I've been mostly lurking
here for years and only seeing 5 to 10 posts a day mostly on topic with very few flame wars. I like checking in on this group except when the sponson thing happens I'm calling it. 17:34 local time, Oct 27, 2007. Cause of Death; overwhelming spam, apathy, sex ads, garbage and general toxicity. We should have taken better care of her... --riverman |
The Death of RBP
On Oct 28, 8:17 pm, (Drew Dalgleish)
wrote: Gee my sever must be taking great care of me. I've been mostly lurking here for years and only seeing 5 to 10 posts a day mostly on topic with very few flame wars. I like checking in on this group except when the sponson thing happens I just Googled "Tim Imgram", and there's a LOT of Tim Ingrams out there! Good ole Sponson Boy! I wonder what meds he's on these days! ;-) John Kuthe... |
The Death of RBP
On Oct 28, 8:51 pm, John Kuthe wrote:
On Oct 28, 8:17 pm, (Drew Dalgleish) wrote: Gee my sever must be taking great care of me. I've been mostly lurking here for years and only seeing 5 to 10 posts a day mostly on topic with very few flame wars. I like checking in on this group except when the sponson thing happens I just Googled "Tim Imgram", and there's a LOT of Tim Ingrams out there! Good ole Sponson Boy! I wonder what meds he's on these days! ;-) Argh! My proof reading's nonexistent! John Kuthe... |
The Death of RBP
On Oct 27, 5:36 am, riverman wrote:
I'm calling it. 17:34 local time, Oct 27, 2007. Cause of Death; overwhelming spam, apathy, sex ads, garbage and general toxicity. We should have taken better care of her... --riverman Long time lurker, occasional poster calling in. Would anyone be interested in moderated forum on a private board? I've got some server room to play with and I might could set this up if there is enough interest. -John www.sourcetosea.net |
The Death of RBP
krueger wrote:
But in some respects, I think this also reflects the state of the paddling community, especially open boaters on the West Coast. It used to be our rivers were a busy place with lots of folks of both persuasion out there enjoying a great sport. Did anyone catch "My Turn" in Newsweek? Now it seems that every other outing, our group is the only one out there and it's getting smaller too........We're getting older, our boats are getting older and neither are replaceable to a certain degree. Yes, along with the creaky joints, our interests are slowly shifting or is it expanding? Be it better or worse. But as long as the knees still bend, the ankles still flex and the wrists/fingers are willing to grip, we'll still paddle. Rivers may morph into the bay, slough, and lagoons, but the spirit carries on! The higher cost of gasoline might have something to do with it. I was going to drive north from San Jose to run the class 2 Klamath (below Copco reservoir) last weekend, but didn't want to pay for gas. However two weekends ago on the South Silver below Ice House reservoir, there were scads of kayakers! Build a river, and they will come! I was going to submit a TR of my recent Grand Canyon adventure, but the audience here is so small I didn't take the time. |
The Death of RBP
SourcetoSea wrote:
Long time lurker, occasional poster calling in. Would anyone be interested in moderated forum on a private board? I've got some server room to play with and I might could set this up if there is enough interest. Usually those don't have enough readers. There is already BoaterTalk (unmoderated) and several great Yahoo groups (semi-moderated) including idahowhitewater utahrafters gcpba (Grand Canyon private boaters assoc.) wrrr (Washington recreational river runners PDXrecreationalKayaker (Portland OR) inflatable-kayaking paddler (???) |
The Death of RBP
Somehow, I clicked on rbp today. Yes, I remember and loved those days
too. |
The Death of RBP
I still read this newsgoup from time to time but seldom have any
information to contribute. (Thee are those who would say I never did.) I seldom post personal exeperiences and even they have been drastically reduced since the heart attack during the canoe race in May05. I was only out paddling twice this year, once in Janruary because it's never been possible to paddle in January in Ottawa before, and once in the fall to collect apples to make cider. I don't know what the reasons for the decline in postings. Could be the people, eg declining levels of testosterone with age (that should mean fewer flames), or the "technology" moving discussions and life in general to websites. I moved from rec.autos.tech to www.fordfestiva.com for sharing information on car care specific to the model I own and love. Or it could be the rising price of paddling paraphenalia (someone suggested fuel prices) and fees. I stopped going camping when fees tripled over a few years. I'll contine to read the newsgroup and post when I think I have something useful to offer although my knowlege and experience are getting dated. I still have sponsons on one of my smaller boats to keep it upright when I put up the sail which I hope to do again some day. |
The Death of RBP
riverman wrote:
I'm calling it. 17:34 local time, Oct 27, 2007. Cause of Death; overwhelming spam, apathy, sex ads, garbage and general toxicity. We should have taken better care of her... --riverman Me myself lurk more than contribute. Joint the group only some months and stay lurking. It isnt dead but times changed a bit. |
The Death of RBP
Bill Tuthill wrote:
SourcetoSea wrote: Long time lurker, occasional poster calling in. Would anyone be interested in moderated forum on a private board? I've got some server room to play with and I might could set this up if there is enough interest. Usually those don't have enough readers. There is already BoaterTalk (unmoderated) Actually, Boatertalk is moderated, and has been so for quite some time. and several great Yahoo groups (semi-moderated) including idahowhitewater utahrafters gcpba (Grand Canyon private boaters assoc.) wrrr (Washington recreational river runners PDXrecreationalKayaker (Portland OR) inflatable-kayaking paddler (???) But for internationally oriented paddlers, it seems that most forums cater mostly to the locals, with very few out of country contributors to most paddling forums that I visit outside of the Netherlands. IMO Playak.com being one of the very few exceptions to that rule. -- Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://kayaker.nl/ |
The Death of RBP
bjorri wrote:
riverman wrote: I'm calling it. 17:34 local time, Oct 27, 2007. Cause of Death; overwhelming spam, apathy, sex ads, garbage and general toxicity. We should have taken better care of her... --riverman Me myself lurk more than contribute. Joint the group only some months and stay lurking. It isnt dead but times changed a bit. Bjorri, looking back from the first time I started lurking (1993) and posting (1998) on RBP, things have changed dramatically. The number of active posters and amount of new posts (and active threads), the atmosphere, the interaction between members (backchannel and real life) and the width of subjects being discussed (with people enjoying fla****er, seakayaking, rodeo, river runners, open canoeing, rafting and what more) by people from all walks of life... RBP really was a different place back then. If you didn't experience back then, I can see where it still might seem to be active now, but frankly, it's less than a shadow of its former self. -- Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://kayaker.nl/ |
The Death of RBP
Do!
I love reading about other peoples adventures and pics too. Carol "Bill Tuthill" wrote in message ... krueger wrote: But in some respects, I think this also reflects the state of the paddling community, especially open boaters on the West Coast. It used to be our rivers were a busy place with lots of folks of both persuasion out there enjoying a great sport. Did anyone catch "My Turn" in Newsweek? Now it seems that every other outing, our group is the only one out there and it's getting smaller too........We're getting older, our boats are getting older and neither are replaceable to a certain degree. Yes, along with the creaky joints, our interests are slowly shifting or is it expanding? Be it better or worse. But as long as the knees still bend, the ankles still flex and the wrists/fingers are willing to grip, we'll still paddle. Rivers may morph into the bay, slough, and lagoons, but the spirit carries on! The higher cost of gasoline might have something to do with it. I was going to drive north from San Jose to run the class 2 Klamath (below Copco reservoir) last weekend, but didn't want to pay for gas. However two weekends ago on the South Silver below Ice House reservoir, there were scads of kayakers! Build a river, and they will come! I was going to submit a TR of my recent Grand Canyon adventure, but the audience here is so small I didn't take the time. |
The Death of RBP
Hi Wilko,
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 23:40:33 +0100, you wrote: ...but frankly, it's less than a shadow of its former self. You've been around here a lot longer than I have, but even I remember a much more active time. When I first came to rbp, there was a delicate mix of great paddling discussions and flame wars! :-) Happily, the former outweighed the latter. I also remember really enjoying Ken Strickland's occasional posting of a new story here. At least I can still go to Pete's White Water Page to re-read some of his stories; and the paddle writing of others as well...even Myron's! Then there were the "Wilko-sized" trip reports...always fun to read! Finally, since rbp was one of the first newsgroups I discovered when I got my first online computer, I remember you Wilko, helping me via backchannel email to understand the culture of rbp and newsgroups in general. A wise mentor you were (even if I couldn't manage to follow your good advice all the time!). :-) -- Melissa |
The Death of RBP
On Oct 27, 4:36 am, riverman wrote:
I'm calling it. 17:34 local time, Oct 27, 2007. Cause of Death; overwhelming spam, apathy, sex ads, garbage and general toxicity. We should have taken better care of her... --riverman The primary problem IMHO is the same as all other media, over- diversification. We had RBP; then it split out into different categories, whitewater, touring, etc. We niched ourselves to death. I spend more time on BWCA.com 'cause there are a lot of people there to talk to... oh well... winemaker |
The Death of RBP
"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message ... krueger wrote: But in some respects, I think this also reflects the state of the paddling community, especially open boaters on the West Coast. It used to be our rivers were a busy place with lots of folks of both persuasion out there enjoying a great sport. Did anyone catch "My Turn" in Newsweek? Now it seems that every other outing, our group is the only one out there and it's getting smaller too........We're getting older, our boats are getting older and neither are replaceable to a certain degree. Yes, along with the creaky joints, our interests are slowly shifting or is it expanding? Be it better or worse. But as long as the knees still bend, the ankles still flex and the wrists/fingers are willing to grip, we'll still paddle. Rivers may morph into the bay, slough, and lagoons, but the spirit carries on! The higher cost of gasoline might have something to do with it. I was going to drive north from San Jose to run the class 2 Klamath (below Copco reservoir) last weekend, but didn't want to pay for gas. However two weekends ago on the South Silver below Ice House reservoir, there were scads of kayakers! Build a river, and they will come! I was going to submit a TR of my recent Grand Canyon adventure, but the audience here is so small I didn't take the time. I think the gas issue is a point - I'm lucky and have a dozen little fiddling around rivers near here, and I get out paddling quite a bit, but they're hardly worth a trip report...even my moonlight treks down the Kalamazoo at midnight are a lot more fun to do than to read about. I still read, and I've got most of the spam canned, but things are a bit slow around here. Cricket |
The Death of RBP
On Oct 30, 6:21 pm, "Cricket" wrote:
"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message ... krueger wrote: But in some respects, I think this also reflects the state of the paddling community, especially open boaters on the West Coast. It used to be our rivers were a busy place with lots of folks of both persuasion out there enjoying a great sport. Did anyone catch "My Turn" in Newsweek? Now it seems that every other outing, our group is the only one out there and it's getting smaller too........We're getting older, our boats are getting older and neither are replaceable to a certain degree. Yes, along with the creaky joints, our interests are slowly shifting or is it expanding? Be it better or worse. But as long as the knees still bend, the ankles still flex and the wrists/fingers are willing to grip, we'll still paddle. Rivers may morph into the bay, slough, and lagoons, but the spirit carries on! The higher cost of gasoline might have something to do with it. I was going to drive north from San Jose to run the class 2 Klamath (below Copco reservoir) last weekend, but didn't want to pay for gas. However two weekends ago on the South Silver below Ice House reservoir, there were scads of kayakers! Build a river, and they will come! I was going to submit a TR of my recent Grand Canyon adventure, but the audience here is so small I didn't take the time. I think the gas issue is a point - I'm lucky and have a dozen little fiddling around rivers near here, and I get out paddling quite a bit, but they're hardly worth a trip report...even my moonlight treks down the Kalamazoo at midnight are a lot more fun to do than to read about. I still read, and I've got most of the spam canned, but things are a bit slow around here. Cricket I think one major reason RBP has lost favor in the past 10-15 years is the advent and tremendous popularity of the WWW. Not naming any websites in particular, but people love websites, because they offer a much richer mix of media than simple ASCII text, which Usenet is limited to. Plain and simple. It's almost a wonder Usenet still exists! I mean, horses and buggy's barely exist anymore, and such is the way with yesteryear's technologies, of which Usenet is these days, yano? Maybe someone needs to start an rbp.com website! Whoops! Someone already did: http://rbp.com/ ;-) John Kuthe... John Kuthe... |
The Death of RBP
On Oct 28, 11:29 pm, John Kuthe wrote:
On Oct 28, 8:51 pm, John Kuthe wrote: On Oct 28, 8:17 pm, (Drew Dalgleish) wrote: Gee my sever must be taking great care of me. I've been mostly lurking here for years and only seeing 5 to 10 posts a day mostly on topic with very few flame wars. I like checking in on this group except when the sponson thing happens I just Googled "Tim Imgram", and there's a LOT of Tim Ingrams out there! Good ole Sponson Boy! I wonder what meds he's on these days! ;-) "'Good' ole Sponson Boy?" The advent of Ingram and Njall, just at the point of technology when alternative online forums (elsewhere adduced) were emerging, is the biggest single reason for the demise of our favorite online hangout. Those guys turned away enough of our number, who by then had different places to go for similar correspondence, to reduce our numbers below the critical mass necessary to keep such a forum vibrant and progressive. These guys are mindless vandals who destroyed a thing of beauty, out of simple selfish glee. I hung in there for several years after the sponson wars, but there were just too few of us to keep any good discussions going, so I finally gave up and went to BoaterTalk. As fate would have it, Eric Princen, owner of BoaterTalk, around then had cleaned up BoaterTalk's act sufficiently that I was able to enjoy it. So there was both a carrot and a stick drawing me away from r.b.p. I've continued to check in almost daily over the last few years, just popping my head in and rarely seeing any new threads of interest to me (Bill Tuthill's wonderful trip reports being the most glaring exception), and now I find that over the last few months I am looking in less and less frequently. Today is the first time in a week or more. Yet I still check BoaterTalk, Paddle Prattle, and CBoats.net almost daily, and get a flood of eMail from the lists of three paddling clubs. So long, friends. I still hope to run into all of you on some river some time. I hope NOT to run into Ingram or Njall, because then I might end up in jail. -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty -- Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll |
The Death of RBP
"Oci-One Kanubi" wrote in message ps.com... On Oct 28, 11:29 pm, John Kuthe wrote: On Oct 28, 8:51 pm, John Kuthe wrote: On Oct 28, 8:17 pm, (Drew Dalgleish) wrote: Gee my sever must be taking great care of me. I've been mostly lurking here for years and only seeing 5 to 10 posts a day mostly on topic with very few flame wars. I like checking in on this group except when the sponson thing happens I just Googled "Tim Imgram", and there's a LOT of Tim Ingrams out there! Good ole Sponson Boy! I wonder what meds he's on these days! ;-) "'Good' ole Sponson Boy?" The advent of Ingram and Njall, just at the point of technology when alternative online forums (elsewhere adduced) were emerging, is the biggest single reason for the demise of our favorite online hangout. Those guys turned away enough of our number, who by then had different places to go for similar correspondence, to reduce our numbers below the critical mass necessary to keep such a forum vibrant and progressive. These guys are mindless vandals who destroyed a thing of beauty, out of simple selfish glee. I hung in there for several years after the sponson wars, but there were just too few of us to keep any good discussions going, so I finally gave up and went to BoaterTalk. As fate would have it, Eric Princen, owner of BoaterTalk, around then had cleaned up BoaterTalk's act sufficiently that I was able to enjoy it. So there was both a carrot and a stick drawing me away from r.b.p. I've continued to check in almost daily over the last few years, just popping my head in and rarely seeing any new threads of interest to me (Bill Tuthill's wonderful trip reports being the most glaring exception), and now I find that over the last few months I am looking in less and less frequently. Today is the first time in a week or more. Yet I still check BoaterTalk, Paddle Prattle, and CBoats.net almost daily, and get a flood of eMail from the lists of three paddling clubs. So long, friends. I still hope to run into all of you on some river some time. I hope NOT to run into Ingram or Njall, because then I might end up in jail. -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty -- Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll Good lord, I have been bopping in and out of here longer than I thought - even I vaguely remember the sponson wars, though not any personalities associated with them...or even what the actual argument was. Sponson is just sort of one of those words that sticks in your head if repeated often enough. Cricket |
The Death of RBP
John Kuthe wrote:
I think one major reason RBP has lost favor in the past 10-15 years is the advent and tremendous popularity of the WWW. Not naming any websites in particular, but people love websites, because they offer a much richer mix of media than simple ASCII text, which Usenet is limited to. Plain and simple. Agreed. It's almost a wonder Usenet still exists! I mean, horses and buggy's barely exist anymore, and such is the way with yesteryear's technologies, of which Usenet is these days, yano? If properly used (which generally it is not) Usenet can still function as the populist Consumer Reports of the 'net. Consumer Reports may be non-profit and all that, but sometimes one wonders why they make the particular buying decisions that they do. Most other product comparison magazines or websites are heavily biased by advertising. Whereas if you know that a particular Usenet poster is reliable, you can trust their recommendations, modulo forgeries. The major media conglomerates probably don't want Usenet to continue. AOL, a division of Time-Warner, was the first to kill Usenet service for their subscribers. It's terrible when citizens talk among themselves, rather than listening to propaganda on TV. |
The Death of RBP
I think it's more than just fuel costs.
A group of us open boaters were on the Klamath 4th July week, and normally we see rafters and kayakers, but rarely canoeist. Curly Jack CG, Sarah Totten CG are full, commercial rafters at Trees of Heaven, Happy Camp, Curley Jack, and Ferry Point put-ins. This year we saw one youth group of 3 rafts, and one guided raft on the Happy Camp run, and one group at Trees of Heaven, and the camp grounds were basicly empty... Unheard of! To our surprise though, the surf wave at School House is now considered a "park 'n play" spot, and was occupied with lots of kayakers. We still enjoyed having the river to ourselves, but it was almost too quiet! Added note: Rattle Snake and The Trench have seen some changes from our last visit 2 years ago. Carol "Bill Tuthill" wrote in message ... krueger wrote: But in some respects, I think this also reflects the state of the paddling community, especially open boaters on the West Coast. It used to be our rivers were a busy place with lots of folks of both persuasion out there enjoying a great sport. Did anyone catch "My Turn" in Newsweek? Now it seems that every other outing, our group is the only one out there and it's getting smaller too........We're getting older, our boats are getting older and neither are replaceable to a certain degree. Yes, along with the creaky joints, our interests are slowly shifting or is it expanding? Be it better or worse. But as long as the knees still bend, the ankles still flex and the wrists/fingers are willing to grip, we'll still paddle. Rivers may morph into the bay, slough, and lagoons, but the spirit carries on! The higher cost of gasoline might have something to do with it. I was going to drive north from San Jose to run the class 2 Klamath (below Copco reservoir) last weekend, but didn't want to pay for gas. However two weekends ago on the South Silver below Ice House reservoir, there were scads of kayakers! Build a river, and they will come! I was going to submit a TR of my recent Grand Canyon adventure, but the audience here is so small I didn't take the time. |
The Death of RBP
most people don't like to read things they don't agree with,
so they prefer moderated sites instead of usenet. Dirk |
The Death of RBP
On Nov 5, 5:00 pm, wrote:
most people don't like to read things they don't agree with, so they prefer moderated sites instead of usenet. Dirk I disagree with that, so I won't read it. --riverman |
The Death of RBP
On Nov 5, 3:00 am, wrote:
most people don't like to read things they don't agree with, so they prefer moderated sites instead of usenet. Dirk I disagree!! Well, maybe it's true since you said "most people". I'm definitely NOT most people! One of my fellow nursing students asked me the other day "What's your role in society?" (an assessment thing we have to do on.for patients), and I told her, "I'm the weirdo. Every society needs it's weirdos to help them define the societal norms, and whatever society I find myself in, I'm always the weirdo." Weird how that works, yano? ;-) John Kuthe... |
The Death of RBP
On Nov 5, 11:05 am, John Kuthe wrote:
On Nov 5, 3:00 am, wrote: most people don't like to read things they don't agree with, so they prefer moderated sites instead of usenet. Dirk I disagree!! Well, maybe it's true since you said "most people". I'm definitely NOT most people! One of my fellow nursing students asked me the other day "What's your role in society?" (an assessment thing we have to do on.for patients), and I told her, "I'm the weirdo. Every society needs it's weirdos to help them define the societal norms, and whatever society I find myself in, I'm always the weirdo." Weird how that works, yano? ;-) John Kuthe... Or, as I am wont to put it: "irritating as they are, we really need the extremists to help the rest of us define the middle ground." Oops. Did I just say Kuthe is irritating? -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty -- Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll |
The Death of RBP
On Nov 5, 10:34 am, Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
On Nov 5, 11:05 am, John Kuthe wrote: On Nov 5, 3:00 am, wrote: most people don't like to read things they don't agree with, so they prefer moderated sites instead of usenet. Dirk I disagree!! Well, maybe it's true since you said "most people". I'm definitely NOT most people! One of my fellow nursing students asked me the other day "What's your role in society?" (an assessment thing we have to do on.for patients), and I told her, "I'm the weirdo. Every society needs it's weirdos to help them define the societal norms, and whatever society I find myself in, I'm always the weirdo." Weird how that works, yano? ;-) John Kuthe... Or, as I am wont to put it: "irritating as they are, we really need the extremists to help the rest of us define the middle ground." Oops. Did I just say Kuthe is irritating? You would not be the first to say that! Hee hee! :-) John Kuthe... |
The Death of RBP
krueger wrote:
A group of us open boaters were on the Klamath 4th July week, and normally we see rafters and kayakers, but rarely canoeist. Curly Jack CG, Sarah Totten CG are full, commercial rafters at Trees of Heaven, Happy Camp, Curley Jack, and Ferry Point put-ins. This year we saw one youth group of 3 rafts, and one guided raft on the Happy Camp run, and one group at Trees of Heaven, and the camp grounds were basicly empty... Unheard of! To our surprise though, the surf wave at School House is now considered a "park 'n play" spot, and was occupied with lots of kayakers. We were on the Forks o' Payette over July 4th, and it was interesting that some runs on the river were virtually devoid of people, whereas others such as Staircase, the Main Payette, and Cabarton were swarming. However the best runs we did IMO-- the Gorge where Walt Blackadar died, the South Fork Boise (not technically a fork o' Payette) and the upper South Fork near Lowman-- had no other boaters on the river! We still enjoyed having the river to ourselves, but it was almost too quiet! It's nice having solitude, though! The park'n'play aspect of recent kayaking has reduced river touring use, and perhaps the emphasis on Xtreme kayaking has caused moderate people to lose interest in the sport. Added note: Rattle Snake and The Trench have seen some changes from our last visit 2 years ago. Can you describe how they changed? |
The Death of RBP
riverman wrote:
Dirk wrote: most people don't like to read things they don't agree with, so they prefer moderated sites instead of usenet. I disagree with that, so I won't read it. LOL. Dirk has a point, though. I stopped reading the financial rags (WSJ, IBD) when they were so negative about President Clinton. Now I hardly follow the mainstream media because they seem to think Dubya is a good president. Michael Moore believes this influx of subjective opinion into news is the main reason for the demise of print journalism, but I think it's more so the Web. Most folks can now find a news-oriented blog to match their opinions, which relieves them of the burden of thinking. Recently the "subprime mortgage crisis" has served as cover for the real problem, which is US deficit spending for the Iraq war, and the high price of gasoline, which is probably related somehow. Too bad my brain still functions: it's a lonely world out here. |
The Death of RBP
There was 1200 CFS out of Iron Gate, and my observations are from an open
boater. Rattlesnake: the gravel/rock bar on river left has been eroded, so the river is wider through here now. In the past, the conservative run has been down the left hugging the bank. This year it was more technical and shallower. The entrance, also, it seemed to have changed, and we had to enter for center, and that either bump over a row of rocks about a third of the way down or skirt them on the right and then work river left hard, From a canoeists perspective, the holes and the ledge on river right looked much larger along with larger diagonal waves. These looked like they could potentially dump you into the hole behind the large rock. Trench: you could say this whole section has changed. False Trench is much mellow then in years past.. River scouting Trench, you would not have guessed the route, as in the past the typical way was far river left. We did scout, and discovered that the far left route put you right into a nasty rooster tail rock. For the open boats, the route seemed to be right of center of what looked like very aerated water, but was actually quite solid. Thinking back, the other big change was at the takeout at Wingate. The gravel ramp there now ends in a rather decent sized eddy. This is rather a rough description, but after all your asking for ancient memories! I could only find one picture of Rattlesnake to jog it, but it was taken from the pullout up on the bluff. We boated the Cabarton back in 2000, before my wrist problems started, and it was exhilarating. I think we were at our limits, but wow! Carol "Bill Tuthill" wrote in message ... krueger wrote: A group of us open boaters were on the Klamath 4th July week, and normally we see rafters and kayakers, but rarely canoeist. Curly Jack CG, Sarah Totten CG are full, commercial rafters at Trees of Heaven, Happy Camp, Curley Jack, and Ferry Point put-ins. This year we saw one youth group of 3 rafts, and one guided raft on the Happy Camp run, and one group at Trees of Heaven, and the camp grounds were basicly empty... Unheard of! To our surprise though, the surf wave at School House is now considered a "park 'n play" spot, and was occupied with lots of kayakers. We were on the Forks o' Payette over July 4th, and it was interesting that some runs on the river were virtually devoid of people, whereas others such as Staircase, the Main Payette, and Cabarton were swarming. However the best runs we did IMO-- the Gorge where Walt Blackadar died, the South Fork Boise (not technically a fork o' Payette) and the upper South Fork near Lowman-- had no other boaters on the river! We still enjoyed having the river to ourselves, but it was almost too quiet! It's nice having solitude, though! The park'n'play aspect of recent kayaking has reduced river touring use, and perhaps the emphasis on Xtreme kayaking has caused moderate people to lose interest in the sport. Added note: Rattle Snake and The Trench have seen some changes from our last visit 2 years ago. Can you describe how they changed? |
The Death of RBP
On Oct 31, 1:53 pm, Bill Tuthill wrote:
John Kuthe wrote: I think one major reason RBP has lost favor in the past 10-15 years is the advent and tremendous popularity of the WWW. Not naming any websites in particular, but people love websites, because they offer a much richer mix of media than simple ASCII text, which Usenet is limited to. Plain and simple. Agreed. It's almost a wonder Usenet still exists! I mean, horses and buggy's barely exist anymore, and such is the way with yesteryear's technologies, of which Usenet is these days, yano? If properly used (which generally it is not) Usenet can still function as the populist Consumer Reports of the 'net. Consumer Reports may be non-profit and all that, but sometimes one wonders why they make the particular buying decisions that they do. Most other product comparison magazines or websites are heavily biased by advertising. Whereas if you know that a particular Usenet poster is reliable, you can trust their recommendations, modulo forgeries. The major media conglomerates probably don't want Usenet to continue. AOL, a division of Time-Warner, was the first to kill Usenet service for their subscribers. It's terrible when citizens talk among themselves, rather than listening to propaganda on TV. Time Magazine: Floating your own Boat Milner, BC: Check out the latest Time Magazine article on the recent surge in the popularity of kayaking. Highlighting the trend away from team sports, the article emphasizes the diversity of kayak enthusiasts, the growing number of paddling opportunities, and advances in equipment. The full article is available online at http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...675598,00.html The article appeared in the US and Canadian editions of the November 5, 2007 magazine. "Time Magazine has a weekly circulation of 3.4 million," says Michael Pardy, Executive Director of the Trade Association of Paddlesports, "This story is good news for our industry. It builds awareness and emphasizes the accessibility of the sport. Kayaking is not an extreme sport anymore." TAPS - the Trade Association of Paddlesports - is a non-profit trade association supporting the paddling industry in North America and the world. TAPS' members are industry leaders and are dedicated to providing paddlers with the best in equipment, services, and experiences. TAPS represents manufacturers, retailers, outfitters, instructional centers, publications, and more throughout the Paddlesports industry, encompassing canoes, touring kayaks, whitewater kayaks, and rafts. TAPS also has Associate members, businesses that support the Paddlesports industry through legal, insurance, financial, online, and other services. |
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