All of those explorers of a few hundred years ago were just slightly
too early.

Thanks to climate change, the fabled NW Passage between Europe and
Asia is now open during the summer months, no longer blocked by ice.

Adventurous cruisers can really plan a "great circle" route now,
circumnavigating the entire western hemisphere.

Apparently there is a major squabble between Canada and some members
of the international community regarding who will control the newly
available shipping channel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6995999.stm

For what it may be worth, you have to wonder whether the rumors of the
NW Passage that sent the Europeans into the Canadian arctic might not
have been founded upon tales handed down for scores of generations
from a time when a similar warming trend (one that obviously couldn't
have been created by internal combustion engines) made the passage ice
free?

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ps.com...
All of those explorers of a few hundred years ago were just slightly
too early.

Thanks to climate change, the fabled NW Passage between Europe and
Asia is now open during the summer months, no longer blocked by ice.

Adventurous cruisers can really plan a "great circle" route now,
circumnavigating the entire western hemisphere.

Apparently there is a major squabble between Canada and some members
of the international community regarding who will control the newly
available shipping channel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6995999.stm

For what it may be worth, you have to wonder whether the rumors of the
NW Passage that sent the Europeans into the Canadian arctic might not
have been founded upon tales handed down for scores of generations
from a time when a similar warming trend (one that obviously couldn't
have been created by internal combustion engines) made the passage ice
free?


This is nothing new- the passage has been navigable many times before. This
ship did it twice in the 40's.
http://hnsa.org/ships/stroch.htm

And by the way- records on the passage ice have only been kept since 1972.

On Oct 19, 8:40?am, "BillP" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

ps.com...





All of those explorers of a few hundred years ago were just slightly
too early.

Thanks to climate change, the fabled NW Passage between Europe and
Asia is now open during the summer months, no longer blocked by ice.

Adventurous cruisers can really plan a "great circle" route now,
circumnavigating the entire western hemisphere.

Apparently there is a major squabble between Canada and some members
of the international community regarding who will control the newly
available shipping channel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6995999.stm

For what it may be worth, you have to wonder whether the rumors of the
NW Passage that sent the Europeans into the Canadian arctic might not
have been founded upon tales handed down for scores of generations
from a time when a similar warming trend (one that obviously couldn't
have been created by internal combustion engines) made the passage ice
free?

This is nothing new- the passage has been navigable many times before. This
ship did it twice in the 40's.http://hnsa.org/ships/stroch.htm

And by the way- records on the passage ice have only been kept since 1972.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Attempts to navigate the NW Passage have been regularly thwarted since
the 16th century, with no navigable channel available. Cook,
Vancouver, etc all searched for the NW Passage....so it's not entirely
correct to say we didn't have any idea what when on up there prior to
the early 1970's. Thanks for letting me know it had been open briefly
in the 1940's, it will be interesting to see how long it remains open
this time.

Beginning in the 1970's we had satellite and other data that allowed
us to track the arctic ice coverage, so we can establish with fair
certainty thta in the last 35 years the NW Passage has not been
navigable during the summer months.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

Attempts to navigate the NW Passage have been regularly thwarted since
the 16th century, with no navigable channel available. Cook,
Vancouver, etc all searched for the NW Passage....so it's not entirely
correct to say we didn't have any idea what when on up there prior to
the early 1970's.

I didn't say that we had no idea what was going on up there I'm just saying
that the only official records maintained are from 1972 and that we have no
idea how many times it's been navigable.
The global warming theorists use this fact to their advantage when they say
" The passage in navigable for the first time on record". Do you feel this
is an honest statement?

Thanks for letting me know it had been open briefly
in the 1940's, it will be interesting to see how long it remains open
this time.

Here's another one that made the passage in 1903-
http://www.framheim.com/Amundsen/NWP/NWPassage.html


Beginning in the 1970's we had satellite and other data that allowed
us to track the arctic ice coverage, so we can establish with fair
certainty thta in the last 35 years the NW Passage has not been
navigable during the summer months.

I have no doubt that the passage has not been passable since the 70's, the
earth was in the beginning of a cooling period at the time.

On Oct 19, 9:13?am, "BillP" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

oups.com...

Attempts to navigate the NW Passage have been regularly thwarted since
the 16th century, with no navigable channel available. Cook,
Vancouver, etc all searched for the NW Passage....so it's not entirely
correct to say we didn't have any idea what when on up there prior to
the early 1970's.

I didn't say that we had no idea what was going on up there I'm just saying
that the only official records maintained are from 1972 and that we have no
idea how many times it's been navigable.
The global warming theorists use this fact to their advantage when they say
" The passage in navigable for the first time on record". Do you feel this
is an honest statement?



Undoubtedly you entirely missed the comment in my original post where
I theorized that the NW Passage must have been commonly open during
some periods of time prior to the 16 & 17 century expeditions that
were sent to look for it. (Most rumors have at least some basis in
fact, and stories of passage across the top of North America had to be
common enough and convincing enough that huge sums of money and
resources would be engaged to try to find and confirm it).

If you missed that, you also missed my comment that a period warm
enough to remove ice from the NW Passage 500 years or more ago could
not have been caused by the internal combustion engine.


My opinions:
Does our planet warm and cool? Heck yes.
Is it warming now? Yes, seems to be.
Is it entirely the fault of mankind and technology? Probably not.
Does man and his technology have some influence on the phenomenon?
Probably so.

That's as "honest" as I can manage. :-)







Thanks for letting me know it had been open briefly
in the 1940's, it will be interesting to see how long it remains open
this time.

Here's another one that made the passage in 1903-http://www.framheim.com/Amundsen/NWP/NWPassage.html

Beginning in the 1970's we had satellite and other data that allowed
us to track the arctic ice coverage, so we can establish with fair
certainty thta in the last 35 years the NW Passage has not been
navigable during the summer months.

I have no doubt that the passage has not been passable since the 70's, the
earth was in the beginning of a cooling period at the time.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:50:35 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

My opinions:
Does our planet warm and cool? Heck yes.
Is it warming now? Yes, seems to be.
Is it entirely the fault of mankind and technology? Probably not.
Does man and his technology have some influence on the phenomenon?
Probably so.

That's as "honest" as I can manage. :-)

Good assessment although lacking the proper level of hysteria that
would attract media and political attention.

Chuck Gould writes:

Undoubtedly you entirely missed the comment in my original post where
I theorized that the NW Passage must have been commonly open during
some periods of time prior to the 16 & 17 century expeditions that
were sent to look for it. (Most rumors have at least some basis in
fact, and stories of passage across the top of North America had to be
common enough and convincing enough that huge sums of money and
resources would be engaged to try to find and confirm it).

If you missed that, you also missed my comment that a period warm
enough to remove ice from the NW Passage 500 years or more ago could
not have been caused by the internal combustion engine.

500 years ago it was pretty cold. The last Viking colonies
on Greenland gave up in the 1400s due to cold climate. Surviving
winter in Europe was a big struggle for most Europeans.
17 century saw the Baltic ice covered on a regular basis and very
bad times in Chine due to low crop yields.

If you look for a warm era look at the 18th century (Carl von
Linné moved out from down town Uppsala because he was worried
about malaria. Malaria was brought to what would later be the
USA by English settlers.) or a thousand years ago when harbours
had to be re-built time again due to rising sea levels---even
here where the land is rising by 5 mm/year as a result of
missing ice of the latest ice-age.

--
Martin Schöön "Problems worthy of attack
show their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

Chuck Gould writes:

Attempts to navigate the NW Passage have been regularly thwarted since
the 16th century, with no navigable channel available. Cook,
Vancouver, etc all searched for the NW Passage....so it's not entirely
correct to say we didn't have any idea what when on up there prior to
the early 1970's. Thanks for letting me know it had been open briefly
in the 1940's, it will be interesting to see how long it remains open
this time.

Beginning in the 1970's we had satellite and other data that allowed
us to track the arctic ice coverage, so we can establish with fair
certainty thta in the last 35 years the NW Passage has not been
navigable during the summer months.

Two guys sailed through the NW passage in the mid 1980s on
a Hobie 18.

--
Martin Schöön "Problems worthy of attack
show their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

On Oct 19, 11:58?am, (Martin Sch??n) wrote:
Chuck Gould writes:
Attempts to navigate the NW Passage have been regularly thwarted since
the 16th century, with no navigable channel available. Cook,
Vancouver, etc all searched for the NW Passage....so it's not entirely
correct to say we didn't have any idea what when on up there prior to
the early 1970's. Thanks for letting me know it had been open briefly
in the 1940's, it will be interesting to see how long it remains open
this time.

Beginning in the 1970's we had satellite and other data that allowed
us to track the arctic ice coverage, so we can establish with fair
certainty thta in the last 35 years the NW Passage has not been
navigable during the summer months.

Two guys sailed through the NW passage in the mid 1980s on
a Hobie 18.

--
Martin Sch n "Problems worthy of attack
show their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

Icebreakers do it every year, of course. Was the Hobie 18 in liquid
water during that voyage in the 80's, or was it "ice boating" part of
the way?

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:58:40 +0200, (Martin
Schöön) wrote:

Two guys sailed through the NW passage in the mid 1980s on
a Hobie 18.

Yes but they did a lot of "over ice" portages if my memory is correct,
not exactly an open passage.