Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

http://www.connpost.com/localnews/ci_6693076

It's not clear what the moral of this story is other than the need for
a thorough pre-purchase survey and high capacity bilge pumps. The
description of 6 to 7 foot seas is highly unlikely although Stratford
Point is an area with strong currents and tide rips.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

Wayne.B wrote:
http://www.connpost.com/localnews/ci_6693076

It's not clear what the moral of this story is other than the need for
a thorough pre-purchase survey and high capacity bilge pumps. The
description of 6 to 7 foot seas is highly unlikely although Stratford
Point is an area with strong currents and tide rips.


I used to run from Milford to Stratford at least once a week in the
summer in my 14' outboard runabouts with 15" transoms.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

On Sep 1, 7:31 am, Wayne.B wrote:
http://www.connpost.com/localnews/ci_6693076

It's not clear what the moral of this story is other than the need for
a thorough pre-purchase survey and high capacity bilge pumps. The
description of 6 to 7 foot seas is highly unlikely although Stratford
Point is an area with strong currents and tide rips.

The opening line is ridiculous:

BRIDGEPORT - Their boat sinking in stormy 7-foot seas, boating
experience and preparation may have spelled the critical difference
between life and death for a Moodus couple as their vessel sank
Tuesday beneath the waves off Stratford Point.

****

The reporter later claims that between the three people aboard they
had
"combined boating experience of almost 30 years". I know that some
boaters accumulate 10 years' experience in 10 years- but a lot simply
get six months' experience 20 times (probably the majority of 2-3
times a year boat users).

I suspect, from the description of events, that they abandoned a
swamped boat. Normally a bad move. Maybe even only partially swamped-
note that the boat cushions (typically foam filled and buoyant) were
still in place after the boat had been salvaged. Even the bow of the
boat sticking up through the surface is easier to sport from the air
or a rescue vessel than the top of somebody's head.

I'd hate to think that with 6-8 inches of water on the floorboards
these new boat owners panicked "We're sinking!" and jumped overboard.

No battery box, no manual bailing option, no purchase oriented
inspection (that should have, but might not have, detected a loose
hose). Apparently no simple tools. Sounds like they may not have had
any pfd's, either- but lashing the fenders together was an inspired
substitute.

7 foot waves? Maybe, but I'd be reluctant to assign much credibility
to wave height descriptions provided by panicked people who made a lot
of bad decisions. Of course when you're explaining to your buddies why
you abandoned a sinking boat, 7,8, or 9 foot waves sound a lot more
dramatic and "excusable" than losing it in 2-3 footers. A legitimate 3
foot chop can be a significant factor for most trailer boats, real 4-
footers a serious and normally uncomfortable challenge. A 7 foot wave
is tall enough that people standing in the cockpit of a boat lke the
one in the article won't see anything but a wall of water when they
are down in the trough. I'd have to drag out the Beaufort scale, but I
think you'd need hurricane foce winds to experience 7-foot chop.

Any hurricanes in CT last Tuesday?

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:47:07 -0400, HK wrote:

I used to run from Milford to Stratford at least once a week in the
summer in my 14' outboard runabouts with 15" transoms.

No question that it can be done. It's a lot more protected in there
however than going outside of Straford Point in the tide rips.

This particular boat seems to have fallen victim to a ruptured engine
hose if I read the news account correctly. That kind of thing can
sink anyone if you don't catch it quickly and know how to deal with
it.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Sep 1, 7:31 am, Wayne.B wrote:
http://www.connpost.com/localnews/ci_6693076

It's not clear what the moral of this story is other than the need for
a thorough pre-purchase survey and high capacity bilge pumps. The
description of 6 to 7 foot seas is highly unlikely although Stratford
Point is an area with strong currents and tide rips.

The opening line is ridiculous:

BRIDGEPORT - Their boat sinking in stormy 7-foot seas, boating
experience and preparation may have spelled the critical difference
between life and death for a Moodus couple as their vessel sank
Tuesday beneath the waves off Stratford Point.

****

The reporter later claims that between the three people aboard they
had
"combined boating experience of almost 30 years". I know that some
boaters accumulate 10 years' experience in 10 years- but a lot simply
get six months' experience 20 times (probably the majority of 2-3
times a year boat users).

I suspect, from the description of events, that they abandoned a
swamped boat. Normally a bad move. Maybe even only partially swamped-
note that the boat cushions (typically foam filled and buoyant) were
still in place after the boat had been salvaged. Even the bow of the
boat sticking up through the surface is easier to sport from the air
or a rescue vessel than the top of somebody's head.

I'd hate to think that with 6-8 inches of water on the floorboards
these new boat owners panicked "We're sinking!" and jumped overboard.

No battery box, no manual bailing option, no purchase oriented
inspection (that should have, but might not have, detected a loose
hose). Apparently no simple tools. Sounds like they may not have had
any pfd's, either- but lashing the fenders together was an inspired
substitute.

7 foot waves? Maybe, but I'd be reluctant to assign much credibility
to wave height descriptions provided by panicked people who made a lot
of bad decisions. Of course when you're explaining to your buddies why
you abandoned a sinking boat, 7,8, or 9 foot waves sound a lot more
dramatic and "excusable" than losing it in 2-3 footers. A legitimate 3
foot chop can be a significant factor for most trailer boats, real 4-
footers a serious and normally uncomfortable challenge. A 7 foot wave
is tall enough that people standing in the cockpit of a boat lke the
one in the article won't see anything but a wall of water when they
are down in the trough. I'd have to drag out the Beaufort scale, but I
think you'd need hurricane foce winds to experience 7-foot chop.

Any hurricanes in CT last Tuesday?



Well, I don't know what happened there, and as I said previously, I
frequently that area with my small boats, but...

For at least 15 years, I spent my entire summer living in a cottage on
the Connecticut shoreline of Long Island Sound, and there were some days
during those many months when the waves were five feet or higher without
breaking until they neared the shoreline. In hurricanes, of course, we
would occasionally see even larger waves, breaking ones at that.

There are a few scary inlets on the edges of the Sound.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:47:07 -0400, HK wrote:

I used to run from Milford to Stratford at least once a week in the
summer in my 14' outboard runabouts with 15" transoms.

No question that it can be done. It's a lot more protected in there
however than going outside of Straford Point in the tide rips.

This particular boat seems to have fallen victim to a ruptured engine
hose if I read the news account correctly. That kind of thing can
sink anyone if you don't catch it quickly and know how to deal with
it.

I suppose they didn't know the water was supposed to come in over the
transom and not bubble up from the inside of the transom.

By the way, here's a courageous guy with a boat whose hull looks
suspiciously like mine, braving the rough waters of Lake Lanier to bring
home a fish. Same engine I have, too.

http://tinyurl.com/359kzn


Looks like he has the splashguard installed.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:47:07 -0400, HK wrote:

I used to run from Milford to Stratford at least once a week in the
summer in my 14' outboard runabouts with 15" transoms.

No question that it can be done. It's a lot more protected in there
however than going outside of Straford Point in the tide rips. This
particular boat seems to have fallen victim to a ruptured engine
hose if I read the news account correctly. That kind of thing can
sink anyone if you don't catch it quickly and know how to deal with
it.

I suppose they didn't know the water was supposed to come in over the
transom and not bubble up from the inside of the transom.

By the way, here's a courageous guy with a boat whose hull looks
suspiciously like mine, braving the rough waters of Lake Lanier to bring
home a fish. Same engine I have, too.

http://tinyurl.com/359kzn


Looks like he has the splashguard installed.


If Waylon saw that much blood, he run sceaming.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:47:07 -0400, HK wrote:

I used to run from Milford to Stratford at least once a week in the
summer in my 14' outboard runabouts with 15" transoms.
No question that it can be done. It's a lot more protected in there
however than going outside of Straford Point in the tide rips. This
particular boat seems to have fallen victim to a ruptured engine
hose if I read the news account correctly. That kind of thing can
sink anyone if you don't catch it quickly and know how to deal with
it.
I suppose they didn't know the water was supposed to come in over the
transom and not bubble up from the inside of the transom.

By the way, here's a courageous guy with a boat whose hull looks
suspiciously like mine, braving the rough waters of Lake Lanier to bring
home a fish. Same engine I have, too.

http://tinyurl.com/359kzn


Looks like he has the splashguard installed.


If Waylon saw that much blood, he run sceaming.




Whatever do you mean? It's just your typical Lake Lanier largemouth.
Oh...you're not referring to the fish...

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 08:28:17 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

A 7 foot wave
is tall enough that people standing in the cockpit of a boat lke the
one in the article won't see anything but a wall of water when they
are down in the trough. I'd have to drag out the Beaufort scale, but I
think you'd need hurricane foce winds to experience 7-foot chop.

I have seen 9 footers on Long Island Sound but only in howling
nor'easters with winds approaching gale force. Don't ask me what I
was doing out there but suffice to say, sail boat racers are a little
bit crazy.

I've been in and around Long Island Sound all summer and we have had
no conditions like that with the exception of a few brief squalls
several weeks ago.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 08:28:17 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Any hurricanes in CT last Tuesday?

Oh - a little NW cruiser wave envy perhaps? :)

Not unlikely at all. And as an "experienced" boater, I've seen 6
footers come out of no where in that area - in particular on a SW
wind.

LIS is infamous for large unruly waves in several areas under SW wind
conditions - the reason being, depending on the tide, the entire
Atlantic Ocean is trying to cram itself into a limited area. Opposing
tides and the right winds, you can get into trouble in a hurry. In
particular in that area.

Ask Scot what we were into at Westerly Reef last Thursday and it was
beautiful out - light winds, but tidal movement into Fisher's Island
Sound was building three footers right at the channel entrance. When
we ran outside Fisher's down to Westerly we caught some major air
twice on waves out of no where. Go ahead, ask him. Three footers and
that was nearly calm conditions.

I've been in Narragansett Bay at Newport with 10/15 mph wind from the
North and East Passage building 4/5' just because of opposing wind and
tides.

Maybe you guys out in the NW need to come East and learn how to boat
in real wind and wave action. :)

With respect to the situation, they did exactly what I would have
done, although I might not have abandoned the boat completely. I
wasn't there so I don't know.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:20:33 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

sail boat racers are a little bit crazy.

Ahem...

Never mind. :)

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

On Sep 1, 4:54 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

we caught some major air
twice on waves out of no where. Go ahead, ask him. Three footers and
that was nearly calm conditions.

Capn' took me boating and flying all in one day.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

Wayne.B wrote:
sail boat racers are a little bit crazy.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Ahem...

Took the word right out of my mouth.

Never mind. :)

'nuff said.

Rick

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

On Sep 1, 1:54?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
Ask Scot what we were into at Westerly Reef last Thursday and it was
beautiful out - light winds, but tidal movement into Fisher's Island
Sound was building three footers right at the channel entrance. When
we ran outside Fisher's down to Westerly we caught some major air
twice on waves out of no where. Go ahead, ask him. Three footers and
that was nearly calm conditions.

I've been in Narragansett Bay at Newport with 10/15 mph wind from the
North and East Passage building 4/5' just because of opposing wind and
tides.

Maybe you guys out in the NW need to come East and learn how to boat
in real wind and wave action. :)

With respect to the situation, they did exactly what I would have
done, although I might not have abandoned the boat completely. I
wasn't there so I don't know.

Observations: the amount of energy required to increase wind/tide chop
from 3 feet to 7 feet is enormous. Given that ebb and flood currents
are usually no more than a few knots, most of that energy has to come
from the wind.

Most people overestimate the height of waves.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 11:06:16 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Sep 1, 1:54?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
Ask Scot what we were into at Westerly Reef last Thursday and it was
beautiful out - light winds, but tidal movement into Fisher's Island
Sound was building three footers right at the channel entrance. When
we ran outside Fisher's down to Westerly we caught some major air
twice on waves out of no where. Go ahead, ask him. Three footers and
that was nearly calm conditions.

I've been in Narragansett Bay at Newport with 10/15 mph wind from the
North and East Passage building 4/5' just because of opposing wind and
tides.

Maybe you guys out in the NW need to come East and learn how to boat
in real wind and wave action. :)

With respect to the situation, they did exactly what I would have
done, although I might not have abandoned the boat completely. I
wasn't there so I don't know.

Observations: the amount of energy required to increase wind/tide chop
from 3 feet to 7 feet is enormous. Given that ebb and flood currents
are usually no more than a few knots, most of that energy has to come
from the wind.

Most people overestimate the height of waves.

If they are taller peak-to-peak than me, they are seven feet.

I've seen it more than once.

However, you are the expert so I'll defer to you.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 11:06:16 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Sep 1, 1:54?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
Ask Scot what we were into at Westerly Reef last Thursday and it was
beautiful out - light winds, but tidal movement into Fisher's Island
Sound was building three footers right at the channel entrance. When
we ran outside Fisher's down to Westerly we caught some major air
twice on waves out of no where. Go ahead, ask him. Three footers and
that was nearly calm conditions.

I've been in Narragansett Bay at Newport with 10/15 mph wind from the
North and East Passage building 4/5' just because of opposing wind and
tides.

Maybe you guys out in the NW need to come East and learn how to boat
in real wind and wave action. :)

With respect to the situation, they did exactly what I would have
done, although I might not have abandoned the boat completely. I
wasn't there so I don't know.

Observations: the amount of energy required to increase wind/tide chop
from 3 feet to 7 feet is enormous. Given that ebb and flood currents
are usually no more than a few knots, most of that energy has to come
from the wind.

Most people overestimate the height of waves.

If they are taller peak-to-peak than me, they are seven feet.

I've seen it more than once.

However, you are the expert so I'll defer to you.

But there are wind waves and swells. You can easily have 8' swells. We
fish in those a lot. Normally comfortable at 8' and under. But wind waves
are those 2-3' normally that are on top of the swells and only appear when
the wind is blowing. Causing those sheep in the meadow days.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 13:57:51 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 11:06:16 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Sep 1, 1:54?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
Ask Scot what we were into at Westerly Reef last Thursday and it was
beautiful out - light winds, but tidal movement into Fisher's Island
Sound was building three footers right at the channel entrance. When
we ran outside Fisher's down to Westerly we caught some major air
twice on waves out of no where. Go ahead, ask him. Three footers and
that was nearly calm conditions.

I've been in Narragansett Bay at Newport with 10/15 mph wind from the
North and East Passage building 4/5' just because of opposing wind and
tides.

Maybe you guys out in the NW need to come East and learn how to boat
in real wind and wave action. :)

With respect to the situation, they did exactly what I would have
done, although I might not have abandoned the boat completely. I
wasn't there so I don't know.

Observations: the amount of energy required to increase wind/tide chop
from 3 feet to 7 feet is enormous. Given that ebb and flood currents
are usually no more than a few knots, most of that energy has to come
from the wind.

Most people overestimate the height of waves.

If they are taller peak-to-peak than me, they are seven feet.

I've seen it more than once.

However, you are the expert so I'll defer to you.

But there are wind waves and swells. You can easily have 8' swells. We
fish in those a lot. Normally comfortable at 8' and under. But wind waves
are those 2-3' normally that are on top of the swells and only appear when
the wind is blowing. Causing those sheep in the meadow days.

If you take eight foot swells and cram them into a space 200 yards
wide, are those waves?

You West Coast types - think the Pacific is the only ocean in the
world. :)

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

On Sep 2, 1:30?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 11:06:16 -0700, Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Sep 1, 1:54?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
Ask Scot what we were into at Westerly Reef last Thursday and it was
beautiful out - light winds, but tidal movement into Fisher's Island
Sound was building three footers right at the channel entrance. When
we ran outside Fisher's down to Westerly we caught some major air
twice on waves out of no where. Go ahead, ask him. Three footers and
that was nearly calm conditions.

I've been in Narragansett Bay at Newport with 10/15 mph wind from the
North and East Passage building 4/5' just because of opposing wind and
tides.

Maybe you guys out in the NW need to come East and learn how to boat
in real wind and wave action. :)

With respect to the situation, they did exactly what I would have
done, although I might not have abandoned the boat completely. I
wasn't there so I don't know.

Observations: the amount of energy required to increase wind/tide chop
from 3 feet to 7 feet is enormous. Given that ebb and flood currents
are usually no more than a few knots, most of that energy has to come
from the wind.

Most people overestimate the height of waves.

If they are taller peak-to-peak than me, they are seven feet.

I've seen it more than once.

However, you are the expert so I'll defer to you.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We seem to be holding two different conversations simultaneously.

Unless I misread your intent, you observed that you encountered 3
footers on your recent fishing trip with the backyard renegade, and
attributed that to opposing winds and currents. Very probable
scenario.

To go from 3 foot chop to 7 foot chop requires a lot more energy.
Given that tidal ebb and flood will be within a couple of knots one
way or the other regardless of the extremity of the tide in almost any
location other than a narow pass, the energy to go from the 3 footers
you observed to the 7 footers reported by the folks with the swamped
or sinking boat needs to come from the wind.

I have no doubt that you have seen 7-footers and more. It's hard to
imagine 7 foot chop when the winds are 10-15knots, as reported by the
victims of the incident. Seven foot swells, heck yes- not as much a
product of local winds as is chop. Also not really a problem unless
spaced very tightly together at a short period.

The boat photographed in the link will be experiencing waves breaking
on the foredeck in 4-footers, and could be pooped over the transom in
less.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 13:57:51 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 11:06:16 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Sep 1, 1:54?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
Ask Scot what we were into at Westerly Reef last Thursday and it was
beautiful out - light winds, but tidal movement into Fisher's Island
Sound was building three footers right at the channel entrance. When
we ran outside Fisher's down to Westerly we caught some major air
twice on waves out of no where. Go ahead, ask him. Three footers and
that was nearly calm conditions.

I've been in Narragansett Bay at Newport with 10/15 mph wind from the
North and East Passage building 4/5' just because of opposing wind and
tides.

Maybe you guys out in the NW need to come East and learn how to boat
in real wind and wave action. :)

With respect to the situation, they did exactly what I would have
done, although I might not have abandoned the boat completely. I
wasn't there so I don't know.

Observations: the amount of energy required to increase wind/tide chop
from 3 feet to 7 feet is enormous. Given that ebb and flood currents
are usually no more than a few knots, most of that energy has to come
from the wind.

Most people overestimate the height of waves.

If they are taller peak-to-peak than me, they are seven feet.

I've seen it more than once.

However, you are the expert so I'll defer to you.

But there are wind waves and swells. You can easily have 8' swells. We
fish in those a lot. Normally comfortable at 8' and under. But wind
waves
are those 2-3' normally that are on top of the swells and only appear when
the wind is blowing. Causing those sheep in the meadow days.

If you take eight foot swells and cram them into a space 200 yards
wide, are those waves?

You West Coast types - think the Pacific is the only ocean in the
world. :)

It is the biggest with the longest stretch open to prevailing winds. At
least winds that blow towards the USA. And when it gets nasty in the
Atlantic, all you pansies have shrink wrapped yor boats for the season.

Sinking Feeling (Not a low transom issue)
 

It is the biggest with the longest stretch open to prevailing winds. At
least winds that blow towards the USA. And when it gets nasty in the
Atlantic, all you pansies have shrink wrapped yor boats for the season.

I think that calls for a *touche'* :-)

--Mike

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 13:57:51 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 11:06:16 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Sep 1, 1:54?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
Ask Scot what we were into at Westerly Reef last Thursday and it was
beautiful out - light winds, but tidal movement into Fisher's Island
Sound was building three footers right at the channel entrance. When
we ran outside Fisher's down to Westerly we caught some major air
twice on waves out of no where. Go ahead, ask him. Three footers
and
that was nearly calm conditions.

I've been in Narragansett Bay at Newport with 10/15 mph wind from the
North and East Passage building 4/5' just because of opposing wind
and
tides.

Maybe you guys out in the NW need to come East and learn how to boat
in real wind and wave action. :)

With respect to the situation, they did exactly what I would have
done, although I might not have abandoned the boat completely. I
wasn't there so I don't know.

Observations: the amount of energy required to increase wind/tide chop
from 3 feet to 7 feet is enormous. Given that ebb and flood currents
are usually no more than a few knots, most of that energy has to come
from the wind.

Most people overestimate the height of waves.

If they are taller peak-to-peak than me, they are seven feet.

I've seen it more than once.

However, you are the expert so I'll defer to you.

But there are wind waves and swells. You can easily have 8' swells. We
fish in those a lot. Normally comfortable at 8' and under. But wind
waves
are those 2-3' normally that are on top of the swells and only appear
when
the wind is blowing. Causing those sheep in the meadow days.

If you take eight foot swells and cram them into a space 200 yards
wide, are those waves?

You West Coast types - think the Pacific is the only ocean in the
world. :)

It is the biggest with the longest stretch open to prevailing winds. At
least winds that blow towards the USA. And when it gets nasty in the
Atlantic, all you pansies have shrink wrapped yor boats for the season.