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Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
Mighty Lake Superior Mystifies Scientists
By JOHN FLESHER,AP Posted: 2007-07-29 18:13:34 Filed Under: Nation News, Science News MARQUETTE, Mich. (July 29) - As the research boat bobs up and down on gray, choppy Lake Superior, Michigan Tech University chemist Noel Urban and two students drop a metal cylinder over the side to retrieve a water sample from the bottom. They are measuring carbon dioxide content -- an unspectacular statistic by itself, yet an important piece of a highly complex puzzle. "It helps us develop a model that can say what's going to happen as the lake warms up," Urban says. Plenty of people are wondering the same thing. Something seems amiss with mighty Superior, the deepest and coldest of the Great Lakes, which together hold nearly 20 percent of the world's fresh surface water. Superior's surface area is roughly the same as South Carolina's, the biggest of any freshwater lake on Earth. It's deep enough to hold all the other Great Lakes plus three additional Lake Eries. Yet over the past year, its level has ebbed to the lowest point in eight decades and will set a record this fall if, as expected, it dips three more inches. Its average temperature has surged 4.5 degrees Fahrenheit since 1979, significantly above the 2.7-degree rise in the region's air temperature during the same period. That's no small deal for a freshwater sea that was created from glacial melt as the Ice Age ended and remains chilly in all seasons. A weather buoy on the western side recently recorded an "amazing" 75 degrees, "as warm a surface temperature as we've ever seen in this lake," says Jay Austin, assistant professor at the University of Minnesota at Duluth's Large Lakes Observatory. Water levels also have receded on the other Great Lakes since the late 1990s. But the suddenness and severity of Superior's changes worry many in the region; it has plunged more than a foot in the past year. Shorelines are dozens of yards wider than usual, giving sunbathers wider beaches but also exposing mucky bottomlands and rotting vegetation. "C'mon, girls, get out of the mud," Dan Arsenault, 32, calls to his two young daughters at a park near the mouth of the St. Marys River on the southeastern end of Lake Superior. Bree, 5, and 3-year-old Andie are stomping in puddles where water was waist-deep a couple of years ago. The floatation rope that previously designated the swimming area now rests on moist ground. "This is the lowest I've ever seen it," says Arsenault, a lifelong resident of Sault Ste. Marie in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Superior still has lots of water. Its average depth is 483 feet and it reaches 1,332 feet at the deepest point. Erie, the shallowest Great Lake, is 210 feet at its deepest and averages only 62 feet. Lake Michigan averages 279 feet and is 925 feet at its deepest. Yet along Superior's shores, boats can't reach many mooring sites and marina operators are begging the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to dredge shallow harbors. Ferry service between Grand Portage, Minn., and Isle Royale National Park was scaled back because one of the company's boats couldn't dock. Sally Zabelka has turned away boaters from Chippewa Landing marina in the eastern Upper Peninsula, where not long ago 27-foot vessels easily made their way up the channel from the lake's Brimley Bay. "In essence, our dock is useless this year," she says. Another worry: As the bay heats up, the perch, walleye and smallmouth bass that have lured anglers to her campground and tackle shop are migrating to cooler waters in the open lake. Low water has cost the shipping industry millions of dollars. Vessels are carrying lighter loads of iron ore and coal to avoid running aground in shallow channels. Superior's retreat creates a double whammy in Grand Marais, where the only deepwater harbor of refuge along a 90-mile, shipwreck-strewn section of the lake already was filling with sand because of a decaying breakwall. Burt Township, the local government, is extending the harbor's boat launching ramp an additional 40 feet, Supervisor Jack Hubbard says. Sand and shallow water are choking off aquatic vegetation that once provided habitat for hefty pike and trout. Puffing on a pipe in a Grand Marais pub, retiree Ted Sietsema voices the suspicion held by many in the villages along Superior's southern shoreline: Someone is taking the water. The government is diverting it to places with more people and political influence - along Lakes Huron and Michigan and even the Sun Belt, via the Mississippi River. "Don't give me that global warming stuff," Sietsema says. "That water is going west. That big aquifer out there is empty but they can still water the desert. It's got to be coming from somewhere." A familiar theory - but all wet, says Scott Thieme, hydraulics and hydrology chief with the Corps of Engineers district office in Detroit. Water does exit Lake Superior through locks, power plants and gates on the St. Marys River, but in amounts strictly regulated under a 1909 pact with Canada. The actual forces at work, while mysterious, are not the stuff of spy novels, Thieme says. Precipitation has tapered off across the upper Great Lakes since the 1970s and is nearly 6 inches below normal in the Superior watershed the past year. Water evaporation rates are up sharply because mild winters have shrunk the winter ice cap - just as climate change computer models predict for the next half-century. Yet those models also envision more precipitation as global warming sets in, says Brent Lofgren, a physical scientist with the Great Lakes Environmental Research Laboratory in Ann Arbor. Instead there's drought, suggesting other causes. Cynthia Sellinger, the lab's deputy director, suspects residual effects of El Nino, the warming of equatorial Pacific waters that produced warmer winters in the late 1990s, just as the lakes began receding. Both long-term climate change and short-term meteorological factors may be driving water levels down, says Urban, the Michigan Tech researcher. But he and Austin are more concerned about effects than causes. There's a big knowledge gap about how food webs and other aquatic systems will respond to warmer temperatures, they say. "It's just not clear what the ultimate result will be as we turn the knob up," says Austin, the Minnesota-Duluth professor. "It could be great for fisheries or fisheries could crash." That's a question Urban and his colleagues want to help answer with their carbon dioxide measurements on Lake Superior. Plugging those and other statistics into comprehensive ecosystem models will give scientists a basis for making predictions. "We're always reacting to what's already happened instead of looking forward," Urban says. "As long as we have a poor understanding of the basic functions of the lake, we won't be able to say whether this warming is of major concern or not." Editor's note - John Flesher is the AP correspondent in Traverse City and has covered environmental issues since 1992. |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
Chuck Gould wrote:
Mighty Lake Superior Mystifies Scientists By JOHN FLESHER,AP Posted: 2007-07-29 18:13:34 Filed Under: Nation News, Science News MARQUETTE, Mich. (July 29) - As the research boat bobs up and down on gray, choppy Lake Superior, Michigan Tech University chemist Noel Urban and two students drop a metal cylinder over the side to retrieve a water sample from the bottom. They are measuring carbon dioxide content -- an unspectacular statistic by itself, yet an important piece of a highly complex puzzle. "It helps us develop a model that can say what's going to happen as the lake warms up," Urban says. Plenty of people are wondering the same thing. Something seems amiss with mighty Superior, the deepest and coldest of the Great Lakes, which together hold nearly 20 percent of the world's fresh surface water. It's the Chinese. Wal-Mart and Halliburton teamed up to ship another U.S. asset to the PRC, this time via a through-the-earth pipeline. The deal was brokered by Dicque Cheney. China will run the water through its non-existent sewage treatment plants, bottle it, and ship it back to us for drinking. |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
On Jul 30, 9:27?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote: Mighty Lake Superior Mystifies Scientists By JOHN FLESHER,AP Posted: 2007-07-29 18:13:34 Filed Under: Nation News, Science News MARQUETTE, Mich. (July 29) - As the research boat bobs up and down on gray, choppy Lake Superior, Michigan Tech University chemist Noel Urban and two students drop a metal cylinder over the side to retrieve a water sample from the bottom. They are measuring carbon dioxide content -- an unspectacular statistic by itself, yet an important piece of a highly complex puzzle. "It helps us develop a model that can say what's going to happen as the lake warms up," Urban says. Plenty of people are wondering the same thing. Something seems amiss with mighty Superior, the deepest and coldest of the Great Lakes, which together hold nearly 20 percent of the world's fresh surface water. It's the Chinese. Wal-Mart and Halliburton teamed up to ship another U.S. asset to the PRC, this time via a through-the-earth pipeline. The deal was brokered by Dicque Cheney. China will run the water through its non-existent sewage treatment plants, bottle it, and ship it back to us for drinking.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That's almost as good as "the western aquifer has gone dry, and that's sucking all the water from Lake Superior" Everybody sees some things change in a lifetime. In fact, those of us more than just a few decades old have seen more changes in the world in the last 50 years than there were in the previous few hundred, and one change we're witnessing is a climate change. Never mind whether it's man-made, (we won't know one way or the other until it's too late) but it's real enough and the effects will be the save whether it's caused by sunspots or 2-stroke outboard exhaust. |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
Yet along Superior's shores, boats can't reach many mooring sites and marina operators are begging the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to dredge shallow harbors. You can thank your "great" President for that....draining the lakes "just" to keep the Mississippi high. And now, since we havent put a quarantine area into place for these trashy European Freighters dumping their ballast coming up the St. Lawrence in place...we have Asian Carp caught in Lake Huron!!! THIS FISH spells the end for the lakes...they eat EVERYTHING....just like Asians!!! |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
On Jul 30, 11:48 am, Chuck Gould wrote:
Unfortunately with the revelations about temperature monitoring stations around the country being "ooops" set up next to generators, too close to the pavement, up against buildings, etc. All "mistakes" which make for innacuracies, almost always to the hot side, a lot of this stuff seems much more sinister than one might think. I just caught the end of the story, but apparently the agency in charge of monitoring these sites has removed their locations from the public arena as news agencies were finding a lot of problems across the board and they like most GW advocates, don't want to be monitored or challenged. You have scientists calling for other scientists to lose their right to teach for doubting, what is proving to be a shady industry all around. Could be the biggest scam since Y2K, but we are not allowed to question, or even look. |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:03:53 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote: GO NUCLEAR!! -- John H |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:35:57 -0700, Corsair23 wrote:
Yet along Superior's shores, boats can't reach many mooring sites and marina operators are begging the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to dredge shallow harbors. You can thank your "great" President for that....draining the lakes "just" to keep the Mississippi high. Didn't that rationale get dumped early on? -- John H |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
Chuck Gould wrote:
Mighty Lake Superior Mystifies Scientists By JOHN FLESHER,AP Posted: 2007-07-29 18:13:34 Filed Under: Nation News, Science News MARQUETTE, Mich. (July 29) - As the research boat bobs up and down on gray, choppy Lake Superior, Michigan Tech University chemist Noel Urban and two students drop a metal cylinder over the side to retrieve a water sample from the bottom. They are measuring carbon dioxide content -- an unspectacular statistic by itself, yet an important piece of a highly complex puzzle. "It helps us develop a model that can say what's going to happen as the lake warms up," Urban says. Plenty of people are wondering the same thing. Something seems amiss with mighty Superior, the deepest and coldest of the Great Lakes, which together hold nearly 20 percent of the world's fresh surface water. Superior's surface area is roughly the same as South Carolina's, the biggest of any freshwater lake on Earth. It's deep enough to hold all the other Great Lakes plus three additional Lake Eries. Yet over the past year, its level has ebbed to the lowest point in eight decades and will set a record this fall if, as expected, it dips three more inches. Its average temperature has surged 4.5 degrees Fahrenheit since 1979, significantly above the 2.7-degree rise in the region's air temperature during the same period. That's no small deal for a freshwater sea that was created from glacial melt as the Ice Age ended and remains chilly in all seasons. A weather buoy on the western side recently recorded an "amazing" 75 degrees, "as warm a surface temperature as we've ever seen in this lake," says Jay Austin, assistant professor at the University of Minnesota at Duluth's Large Lakes Observatory. Water levels also have receded on the other Great Lakes since the late 1990s. But the suddenness and severity of Superior's changes worry many in the region; it has plunged more than a foot in the past year. Shorelines are dozens of yards wider than usual, giving sunbathers wider beaches but also exposing mucky bottomlands and rotting vegetation. "C'mon, girls, get out of the mud," Dan Arsenault, 32, calls to his two young daughters at a park near the mouth of the St. Marys River on the southeastern end of Lake Superior. Bree, 5, and 3-year-old Andie are stomping in puddles where water was waist-deep a couple of years ago. The floatation rope that previously designated the swimming area now rests on moist ground. "This is the lowest I've ever seen it," says Arsenault, a lifelong resident of Sault Ste. Marie in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Superior still has lots of water. Its average depth is 483 feet and it reaches 1,332 feet at the deepest point. Erie, the shallowest Great Lake, is 210 feet at its deepest and averages only 62 feet. Lake Michigan averages 279 feet and is 925 feet at its deepest. Yet along Superior's shores, boats can't reach many mooring sites and marina operators are begging the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to dredge shallow harbors. Ferry service between Grand Portage, Minn., and Isle Royale National Park was scaled back because one of the company's boats couldn't dock. Sally Zabelka has turned away boaters from Chippewa Landing marina in the eastern Upper Peninsula, where not long ago 27-foot vessels easily made their way up the channel from the lake's Brimley Bay. "In essence, our dock is useless this year," she says. Another worry: As the bay heats up, the perch, walleye and smallmouth bass that have lured anglers to her campground and tackle shop are migrating to cooler waters in the open lake. Low water has cost the shipping industry millions of dollars. Vessels are carrying lighter loads of iron ore and coal to avoid running aground in shallow channels. Superior's retreat creates a double whammy in Grand Marais, where the only deepwater harbor of refuge along a 90-mile, shipwreck-strewn section of the lake already was filling with sand because of a decaying breakwall. Burt Township, the local government, is extending the harbor's boat launching ramp an additional 40 feet, Supervisor Jack Hubbard says. Sand and shallow water are choking off aquatic vegetation that once provided habitat for hefty pike and trout. Puffing on a pipe in a Grand Marais pub, retiree Ted Sietsema voices the suspicion held by many in the villages along Superior's southern shoreline: Someone is taking the water. The government is diverting it to places with more people and political influence - along Lakes Huron and Michigan and even the Sun Belt, via the Mississippi River. "Don't give me that global warming stuff," Sietsema says. "That water is going west. That big aquifer out there is empty but they can still water the desert. It's got to be coming from somewhere." A familiar theory - but all wet, says Scott Thieme, hydraulics and hydrology chief with the Corps of Engineers district office in Detroit. Water does exit Lake Superior through locks, power plants and gates on the St. Marys River, but in amounts strictly regulated under a 1909 pact with Canada. The actual forces at work, while mysterious, are not the stuff of spy novels, Thieme says. Precipitation has tapered off across the upper Great Lakes since the 1970s and is nearly 6 inches below normal in the Superior watershed the past year. Water evaporation rates are up sharply because mild winters have shrunk the winter ice cap - just as climate change computer models predict for the next half-century. Yet those models also envision more precipitation as global warming sets in, says Brent Lofgren, a physical scientist with the Great Lakes Environmental Research Laboratory in Ann Arbor. Instead there's drought, suggesting other causes. Cynthia Sellinger, the lab's deputy director, suspects residual effects of El Nino, the warming of equatorial Pacific waters that produced warmer winters in the late 1990s, just as the lakes began receding. Both long-term climate change and short-term meteorological factors may be driving water levels down, says Urban, the Michigan Tech researcher. But he and Austin are more concerned about effects than causes. There's a big knowledge gap about how food webs and other aquatic systems will respond to warmer temperatures, they say. "It's just not clear what the ultimate result will be as we turn the knob up," says Austin, the Minnesota-Duluth professor. "It could be great for fisheries or fisheries could crash." That's a question Urban and his colleagues want to help answer with their carbon dioxide measurements on Lake Superior. Plugging those and other statistics into comprehensive ecosystem models will give scientists a basis for making predictions. "We're always reacting to what's already happened instead of looking forward," Urban says. "As long as we have a poor understanding of the basic functions of the lake, we won't be able to say whether this warming is of major concern or not." Editor's note - John Flesher is the AP correspondent in Traverse City and has covered environmental issues since 1992. Has everyone see all the fouled streams from European mine operators and other discharges along the Canadian shore??? Even in the Soo the Canadian Steel mill discharges into a stream running through the middle and right where the tour boats used to go anyway. The water was almost a florescent green and discolored the Lake water for a long way. I remember, in 2002, hearing a radio news program near near Wawa that a European Company was blackmailing the Canadian Government into letting it take most of a streams flow, in the manufacture of a base of some sort used in toothpaste and other things and returning much less flow but contaminated. If the Government didn't go along with them they were going to somehow influence other European Companies to stay home. It has been too long to remember details. I'm sure this contributes greatly to warming of Superior as well as contamination. It appeared that Eruopeans and other mfgs found a new area to exploit with little concern for what their destruction in the late 70's. The people along the north shore toward Thunder Bay didn't have any say and were disgusted. A little old Lady, at one of the few stores, told of how the miners treated the area's Residents and Communites much as was portrayed of the lawless tv towns of the old west. I guess the Europeans and other miners from the eastern Ontario figured that was usual and expected conduct for them. Ontario figures it has plenty of room to swallow pollution and few Residents that care or who are too intimidated to complain. Superior is paying part of the price. |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:35:57 -0700, Corsair23 wrote: Yet along Superior's shores, boats can't reach many mooring sites and marina operators are begging the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to dredge shallow harbors. You can thank your "great" President for that....draining the lakes "just" to keep the Mississippi high. Didn't that rationale get dumped early on? There is speculation that the Corp of Engineers is responsible for the lake level drops to begin with. The St. Clair river was a "bottle neck" for outflow from the upper Great Lakes. With the shipping channel contantly being dredged, the "bottle neck" is no longer slowing the outflow into Lake St. Clair and Lake Erie. |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
wrote in message ups.com... On Jul 30, 11:48 am, Chuck Gould wrote: Unfortunately with the revelations about temperature monitoring stations around the country being "ooops" set up next to generators, too close to the pavement, up against buildings, etc. You don't say... http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/200...rature_22.html db |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
On Jul 31, 9:33 am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_earthlink.net wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... On Jul 30, 11:48 am, Chuck Gould wrote: Unfortunately with the revelations about temperature monitoring stations around the country being "ooops" set up next to generators, too close to the pavement, up against buildings, etc. You don't say... http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/200...sure_temperatu... db Global warming will probably turn out to be the biggest redistribution of wealth (liberal) scam in history. At this point almost all of the "setteled science" is being questioned, because of loose standards, ignored information that does not conform, and quiet fraud as in the link D-unit provided. Personally, I won't even stipulate at this time that the world is anything but in a normal heating/cooling cycle. If the world was indeed getting warmer, we would be getting lots more hurricaines, the worlds way of moving heat energy from the equator, to the poles, and that is not happening beyond normal fluctuation. Hurricaines are a better indicator than bogus, fixed, equipment readings. At least we do have some kind of comparison we can make, even if it is only numbers of storms, those numbers are harder to rig ;) |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
wrote in message oups.com... On Jul 31, 9:33 am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_earthlink.net wrote: wrote in message ups.com... On Jul 30, 11:48 am, Chuck Gould wrote: Unfortunately with the revelations about temperature monitoring stations around the country being "ooops" set up next to generators, too close to the pavement, up against buildings, etc. You don't say... http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/200...sure_temperatu... db Global warming will probably turn out to be the biggest redistribution of wealth (liberal) scam in history. At this point almost all of the "setteled science" is being questioned, because of loose standards, ignored information that does not conform, and quiet fraud as in the link D-unit provided. Personally, I won't even stipulate at this time that the world is anything but in a normal heating/cooling cycle. If the world was indeed getting warmer, we would be getting lots more hurricaines, the worlds way of moving heat energy from the equator, to the poles, and that is not happening beyond normal fluctuation. Hurricaines are a better indicator than bogus, fixed, equipment readings. At least we do have some kind of comparison we can make, even if it is only numbers of storms, those numbers are harder to rig ;) The earth's climate will change (man induced or not) ... possibly drastically. One day, we *will* have to deal with it. db |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:32:27 -0400, "D-unit" cof42_AT_earthlink.net
wrote: wrote in message roups.com... On Jul 31, 9:33 am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_earthlink.net wrote: wrote in message ups.com... On Jul 30, 11:48 am, Chuck Gould wrote: Unfortunately with the revelations about temperature monitoring stations around the country being "ooops" set up next to generators, too close to the pavement, up against buildings, etc. You don't say... http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/200...sure_temperatu... db Global warming will probably turn out to be the biggest redistribution of wealth (liberal) scam in history. At this point almost all of the "setteled science" is being questioned, because of loose standards, ignored information that does not conform, and quiet fraud as in the link D-unit provided. Personally, I won't even stipulate at this time that the world is anything but in a normal heating/cooling cycle. If the world was indeed getting warmer, we would be getting lots more hurricaines, the worlds way of moving heat energy from the equator, to the poles, and that is not happening beyond normal fluctuation. Hurricaines are a better indicator than bogus, fixed, equipment readings. At least we do have some kind of comparison we can make, even if it is only numbers of storms, those numbers are harder to rig ;) The earth's climate will change (man induced or not) ... possibly drastically. One day, we *will* have to deal with it. Hopefully by that time, we will have moved somewhere else. :) |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
On Jul 30, 10:51?am, wrote:
On Jul 30, 11:48 am, Chuck Gould wrote: Unfortunately with the revelations about temperature monitoring stations around the country being "ooops" set up next to generators, too close to the pavement, up against buildings, etc. All "mistakes" which make for innacuracies, almost always to the hot side, a lot of this stuff seems much more sinister than one might think. I just caught the end of the story, but apparently the agency in charge of monitoring these sites has removed their locations from the public arena as news agencies were finding a lot of problems across the board and they like most GW advocates, don't want to be monitored or challenged. You have scientists calling for other scientists to lose their right to teach for doubting, what is proving to be a shady industry all around. Could be the biggest scam since Y2K, but we are not allowed to question, or even look. If this is a conspiracy, it's a global conspiracy. How odd to think that sex, food, and a promoting a phony global warming conspiracy are the only three things than people from every country and continent can seem to agree upon. Were all of the temperature monitors on Earth placed too near to buildings, or in places where they would likely get hot readings? If so, wow! Wish we could cooperate that effectively for some more worthy causes. What about empirical evidence? How can we ignore the rapid disappearance of the arctic ice cap and the all but universal recession of glaciers world wide? Were the arctic ice cap and glaciers "placed too near a building?" One side or the other is being used, by somebody, in this global warming debate. Why do I doubt that "liberals" have enough money to buy off the majority of climate scientists on the planet, but find it slightly more credible that BIG OIL with a mega-billion PR budget can exert substantial influence over the broadcast companies that own Limbaugh and some of the others? Why is it that the American Association of Petroleum Geologists is the *only* scientific body to take a formal stand denying the existence of global warming? *Geologisits* fer crissake, not even climatologists. I'm not in a position to make any authoritative or absolute pronouncements on the global warming issue, nor are 99% of the people on the planet regardless of how fervently they adhere to a personal opinion. But I'd be willing to be there's a lot more going on here than "the liberals placed all the temperature sensors too close to buildings". :-) If some professors are trying to get other professors fired because they won't teach that "global warming is here now and is a serious threat", that's wrong. Providing that the deniers sincerely believe their message and aren't simply getting paid, of course. I am forced to smile, slightly, because that's the exact situation that *tenure* is supposed to protect. Some of my less than liberal friends have been known to go on a rant against "liberal professors" and call for an end to the tenure system so that it would be easier to fire college profs who present ideas my less than liberal friends disagree with. Well, lookie here......most of those same less than liberal friends are very skeptical or in denial about global warming ("has to be bogus if Al Gore has an opinion on it"), and in the end it will be that same tenure system that preserves the jobs of their less than liberal colleagues on campus. |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:59:57 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote: One side or the other is being used, by somebody, in this global warming debate. Why do I doubt that "liberals" have enough money to buy off the majority of climate scientists on the planet, but find it slightly more credible that BIG OIL with a mega-billion PR budget can exert substantial influence Global warming is indisputable. There is a great deal of well reasoned debate about the cause(s) however. Global warming and global cooling have been going on for tens of thousands, and quite likely, millions of years. Even if caused solely by fossil fuels most experts agree that the damage is done and quite likely irreversible in our lifetimes. Meanwhile fossil fuel supplies will begin to run out even as the water is rising. Better than all the current hand wringing and recriminations would be a long range plan for coping with both of these inevitabilities. |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:44:25 -0400, animal05
wrote: John H. wrote: On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:35:57 -0700, Corsair23 wrote: Yet along Superior's shores, boats can't reach many mooring sites and marina operators are begging the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to dredge shallow harbors. You can thank your "great" President for that....draining the lakes "just" to keep the Mississippi high. Didn't that rationale get dumped early on? There is speculation that the Corp of Engineers is responsible for the lake level drops to begin with. The St. Clair river was a "bottle neck" for outflow from the upper Great Lakes. With the shipping channel contantly being dredged, the "bottle neck" is no longer slowing the outflow into Lake St. Clair and Lake Erie. Do you have any idea who directs and pays for work that is overseen by the Corps? It's not the Corps. -- John H |
Lake Superior dropping and warming, fishing and boating effected
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:59:57 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote: Follow the money, Chuck. Who is making the bucks from the GW theorizing? (Al is one of them!) Yes, many, many sensors were located in areas which have since seen development in proximity thereto. I won't suggest you pay little attention to the flip side of the GW coin, but sometimes it seems so. Go Nuclear! Why so few liberals ringing that bell? Because it might help? -- John H |
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