Low RPM
 

I have a 2003 Yamaha 60 four stroke with 8 hours runtime. The manual
says top rpm's should be between 5-6000. After the initial 3 hours at
various speeds the break in instructions said that I could go full
throttle but for only 5 minute intervals. Not once have I been able
to reach 5000 rpm. Most I ever got was 4600. My father ran the boat
two weeks ago and said it had gotten worse and could only get up to
3500. Called the dealer who told me to bring it in and it would take 2
weeks to have it looked at. I figured it must be a linkage adjustment
or maybe a problem with the controls on the console perhaps even a
prop problem. Today I call and he tells me that there was water in
the gas! This might sound normal accept that 1. the fuel filter float
was not indicating any water in the fuel, 2. accept for rpm range the
motor runs great! starts right up, no sputtering at all even when the
throttle is all the way up. 3. This is third tank of gas that I have
run through the motor so I don't see how water could get in all three
tanks. I am very suspicious that this guy is trying to charge me for
a screw up when the motor was installed. Of course the warrenty would
not cover this so I have to eat $180 for the fuel drain and to clean
out the carbs on a $8000 motor which is virtually still brand new!
Any ideas about what to do? Its my word against his but I suppose
that there is a possibility that he is correct. I am taking the boat
out for a run with him on Friday and if it runs like I expect than
great. The only problem is how can I prove that he fixed something
else and charged me for a BS water in gas problem? If there was water
in the gas wouldn't the motor operate like crap all the time??

Low RPM
 

It does sound a little fishy - but good luck proving it. :(

-W

"Trpfan" wrote in message
om...
I have a 2003 Yamaha 60 four stroke with 8 hours runtime. The manual
says top rpm's should be between 5-6000. After the initial 3 hours at
various speeds the break in instructions said that I could go full
throttle but for only 5 minute intervals. Not once have I been able
to reach 5000 rpm. Most I ever got was 4600. My father ran the boat
two weeks ago and said it had gotten worse and could only get up to
3500. Called the dealer who told me to bring it in and it would take 2
weeks to have it looked at. I figured it must be a linkage adjustment
or maybe a problem with the controls on the console perhaps even a
prop problem. Today I call and he tells me that there was water in
the gas! This might sound normal accept that 1. the fuel filter float
was not indicating any water in the fuel, 2. accept for rpm range the
motor runs great! starts right up, no sputtering at all even when the
throttle is all the way up. 3. This is third tank of gas that I have
run through the motor so I don't see how water could get in all three
tanks. I am very suspicious that this guy is trying to charge me for
a screw up when the motor was installed. Of course the warrenty would
not cover this so I have to eat $180 for the fuel drain and to clean
out the carbs on a $8000 motor which is virtually still brand new!
Any ideas about what to do? Its my word against his but I suppose
that there is a possibility that he is correct. I am taking the boat
out for a run with him on Friday and if it runs like I expect than
great. The only problem is how can I prove that he fixed something
else and charged me for a BS water in gas problem? If there was water
in the gas wouldn't the motor operate like crap all the time??

Low RPM
 

If it is water , It would not run. Check and see if you are getting full
throtle at the carb.

Low RPM
 

I have a 2003 Yamaha 60 four stroke with 8 hours runtime. The manual
says top rpm's should be between 5-6000. After the initial 3 hours at
various speeds the break in instructions said that I could go full
throttle but for only 5 minute intervals. Not once have I been able
to reach 5000 rpm. Most I ever got was 4600. My father ran the boat
two weeks ago and said it had gotten worse and could only get up to
3500. Called the dealer who told me to bring it in and it would take 2
weeks to have it looked at. I figured it must be a linkage adjustment
or maybe a problem with the controls on the console perhaps even a
prop problem. Today I call and he tells me that there was water in
the gas! This might sound normal accept that 1. the fuel filter float
was not indicating any water in the fuel, 2. accept for rpm range the
motor runs great! starts right up, no sputtering at all even when the
throttle is all the way up. 3. This is third tank of gas that I have
run through the motor so I don't see how water could get in all three
tanks. I am very suspicious that this guy is trying to charge me for
a screw up when the motor was installed. Of course the warrenty would
not cover this so I have to eat $180 for the fuel drain and to clean
out the carbs on a $8000 motor which is virtually still brand new!
Any ideas about what to do? Its my word against his but I suppose
that there is a possibility that he is correct. I am taking the boat
out for a run with him on Friday and if it runs like I expect than
great. The only problem is how can I prove that he fixed something
else and charged me for a BS water in gas problem? If there was water
in the gas wouldn't the motor operate like crap all the time??








Here's one scenerio..... You're engine is over propped or you're not trimmed
out properly so you're only getting 4600 rpms. That's your baseline engine
operating range.

Then you've got water in the gas. Water will emulsify in the gas and run
through the filter in very small droplets as you bounce around in the water.
This, in turn, will casue improper fuel burning and premature fouling of the
plugs. Then you drop some more RPMs.

So, I think it's feasible. But, you should have seen some water accumulation
in the bottom of the fuel filter. Possibly you didn't notice it?

My guess is that you'll be back at 4600 RPMs after the dealer looks at it and
then you'll have to go down in prop size probably 2 sizes. And you should add
another fuel filter/water seperator.

Let us know how it works out.

Barry

Low RPM
 

As an EX. yammie techie I can say you have been "HAD". The dealer will put
the correct prop on it (he has dozens of extras for just such a need) and
charge you for water in the gas He probably put in the boat. If it was not
mis-firing-it did not have water.

Low RPM
 

So *mark* your old prop and say nothing....... if he switches props and
only talks of water..... - GOTCHA!

-W

"OldRedNeck" wrote in message
...
As an EX. yammie techie I can say you have been "HAD". The dealer will put
the correct prop on it (he has dozens of extras for just such a need) and
charge you for water in the gas He probably put in the boat. If it was not
mis-firing-it did not have water.

Low RPM
 

As an EX. yammie techie I can say you have been "HAD". The dealer will put
the correct prop on it (he has dozens of extras for just such a need) and
charge you for water in the gas He probably put in the boat. If it was not
mis-firing-it did not have water.



Didn't the original post say that he was originally getting 4400 (or so) rpms,
and that after a couple of trips the rpms dropped to around 3200. I'd say
something was misfiring.

And I can assure you that on a fuel injected engine small droplets of water can
be mixed with the gas and get through the filter can and will cause premature
fouling of the plugs. It doesn't take much for a new lean burn engines to not
properly fire. Not usually a problem on carb'ed engines where fuel /air mixture
is not so critical.

If they change the plugs and clean the fuel tank and them tell him he needs to
go down in size on his prop, I'd say he probably hasn't been "HAD". He should
thank the dealer for solving the problem before he did serious damage to his
new engine.

I'd also suggest that he find out where the water's getting in or it will be a
continual problem.

In case you're wondering, I went through the exact same thing with my 200hpdi
Yammy last year. Turned out water was entering around the fuel sending unit and
at the fille neck O-ring. They pumped 6 gallons of water out of my tank and I
was there to see it.

Barry

Low RPM
 

Low RPM
 

As an EX. yammie techie I can say you have been "HAD". The dealer will
put
the correct prop on it (he has dozens of extras for just such a need) and
charge you for water in the gas He probably put in the boat. If it was
not
mis-firing-it did not have water.




F330GT then wrote:

Didn't the original post say that he was originally getting 4400 (or so)
rpms,
and that after a couple of trips the rpms dropped to around 3200. I'd say
something was misfiring.

And I can assure you that on a fuel injected engine small droplets of
water can
be mixed with the gas and get through the filter can and will cause
premature
fouling of the plugs. It doesn't take much for a new lean burn engines to
not
properly fire. Not usually a problem on carb'ed engines where fuel /air
mixture
is not so critical.

If they change the plugs and clean the fuel tank and them tell him he
needs to
go down in size on his prop, I'd say he probably hasn't been "HAD".

Barry


His Reply:

So I went down to pick up the boat. Aside from doing the 10 hr
checkup and the "water in gas" problem. He had not even put the boat
in the water!! We took the boat out and sure enough was only able to
run 4600. He says "well we might have to check that prop size" I
knew it!!!! Two smaller prop sizes later and she was up to 5500 right
where she should be. Then this guy had the audacity to say after he
has had the boat for two weeks " I should have done this earlier in
the week" Do you beleive that?????!!!!! Needless to say I will never
put another penny thru that guys shop. Thanks to all who posted
advice and comment. It was a 175$ lesson to learn.





Just out of curiosity, what was the diagnosis of the rpm loss that was
originally mentioned. I think you mentioned when your father used it he could
only get about 3200 rpm from the original 4600. Did that just disappear when
you went out with the mechanic?

He probably changed plugs with the 10 hour service.

Other than taking too long to look at your boat, how did the mechanic screw
you? What was the $175 charge? You got the 10 hour maintenance. And what? A
new prop? Or 2 hours of his time to change props a couple of times and go for
test rides? I didn't think that was all supposed to be free.

No offense meant but I'm missing something here. Unless you're saying it's his
fault that you had the wrong size prop.......But even then, you should have
known from the first day you went out and got 4600 rpm's that you were
overpropped. You wouldn't have needed to take the boat back for service. Just
change props. I've never seen your boat and I could have told you to go down 2
sizes in pitch.

Barry

Low RPM
 

I believe it was a new boat. PArt of the charge for the new boat should be
rigging and that includes the correct prop. Also, he was charge for water
in the gas, as that was the stated reason for low RPM's. Those test rides
were not free, they are built into the cost of the boat.
Bill

"F330 GT" wrote in message
...
As an EX. yammie techie I can say you have been "HAD". The dealer
will
put
the correct prop on it (he has dozens of extras for just such a need)
and
charge you for water in the gas He probably put in the boat. If it
was
not
mis-firing-it did not have water.




F330GT then wrote:

Didn't the original post say that he was originally getting 4400 (or
so)
rpms,
and that after a couple of trips the rpms dropped to around 3200. I'd
say
something was misfiring.

And I can assure you that on a fuel injected engine small droplets of
water can
be mixed with the gas and get through the filter can and will cause
premature
fouling of the plugs. It doesn't take much for a new lean burn engines
to
not
properly fire. Not usually a problem on carb'ed engines where fuel
/air
mixture
is not so critical.

If they change the plugs and clean the fuel tank and them tell him he
needs to
go down in size on his prop, I'd say he probably hasn't been "HAD".

Barry


His Reply:

So I went down to pick up the boat. Aside from doing the 10 hr
checkup and the "water in gas" problem. He had not even put the boat
in the water!! We took the boat out and sure enough was only able to
run 4600. He says "well we might have to check that prop size" I
knew it!!!! Two smaller prop sizes later and she was up to 5500 right
where she should be. Then this guy had the audacity to say after he
has had the boat for two weeks " I should have done this earlier in
the week" Do you beleive that?????!!!!! Needless to say I will never
put another penny thru that guys shop. Thanks to all who posted
advice and comment. It was a 175$ lesson to learn.





Just out of curiosity, what was the diagnosis of the rpm loss that was
originally mentioned. I think you mentioned when your father used it he
could
only get about 3200 rpm from the original 4600. Did that just disappear
when
you went out with the mechanic?

He probably changed plugs with the 10 hour service.

Other than taking too long to look at your boat, how did the mechanic
screw
you? What was the $175 charge? You got the 10 hour maintenance. And what?
A
new prop? Or 2 hours of his time to change props a couple of times and go
for
test rides? I didn't think that was all supposed to be free.

No offense meant but I'm missing something here. Unless you're saying it's
his
fault that you had the wrong size prop.......But even then, you should
have
known from the first day you went out and got 4600 rpm's that you were
overpropped. You wouldn't have needed to take the boat back for service.
Just
change props. I've never seen your boat and I could have told you to go
down 2
sizes in pitch.

Barry

Low RPM
 

I believe it was a new boat. PArt of the charge for the new boat should be
rigging and that includes the correct prop. Also, he was charge for water
in the gas, as that was the stated reason for low RPM's. Those test rides
were not free, they are built into the cost of the boat.
Bill



Bill,

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but the original poster was not at all
specific on ANY details.
Maybe it's a new boat. Maybe just a new engine.
RPM loss. Then suddenly runs good again.
Water in the gas. Maybe or maybe not. The orignial poster doesn't say. Doesn't
say he was charged for that either, did he? The only thing he said was the
mechanic said he might have water in the gas before he had even looked at it.

A bill for $175, but no info on what it's for. Might have been for the 10 hour
service for all we know. Might have been for a new prop? Again, no info.

At this point, who really cares?. I just think if you're going to bad mouth
somebody in a public forum, you should back up your claims with some pertinant
facts. All I heard was whining about being screwed with nothing to back it up.
And when I ask a couple of simple questions which might have clarified it, he
disappeared.

Barry

Low RPM
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net...
I believe it was a new boat. PArt of the charge for the new boat should be
rigging and that includes the correct prop. Also, he was charge for water
in the gas, as that was the stated reason for low RPM's. Those test rides
were not free, they are built into the cost of the boat.
Bill

"F330 GT" wrote in message
...
As an EX. yammie techie I can say you have been "HAD". The dealer
will
put
the correct prop on it (he has dozens of extras for just such a need)
and
charge you for water in the gas He probably put in the boat. If it
was
not
mis-firing-it did not have water.




F330GT then wrote:

Didn't the original post say that he was originally getting 4400 (or
so)
rpms,
and that after a couple of trips the rpms dropped to around 3200. I'd
say
something was misfiring.

And I can assure you that on a fuel injected engine small droplets of
water can
be mixed with the gas and get through the filter can and will cause
premature
fouling of the plugs. It doesn't take much for a new lean burn engines
to
not
properly fire. Not usually a problem on carb'ed engines where fuel
/air
mixture
is not so critical.

If they change the plugs and clean the fuel tank and them tell him he
needs to
go down in size on his prop, I'd say he probably hasn't been "HAD".

Barry


His Reply:

So I went down to pick up the boat. Aside from doing the 10 hr
checkup and the "water in gas" problem. He had not even put the boat
in the water!! We took the boat out and sure enough was only able to
run 4600. He says "well we might have to check that prop size" I
knew it!!!! Two smaller prop sizes later and she was up to 5500 right
where she should be. Then this guy had the audacity to say after he
has had the boat for two weeks " I should have done this earlier in
the week" Do you beleive that?????!!!!! Needless to say I will never
put another penny thru that guys shop. Thanks to all who posted
advice and comment. It was a 175$ lesson to learn.





Just out of curiosity, what was the diagnosis of the rpm loss that was
originally mentioned. I think you mentioned when your father used it he
could
only get about 3200 rpm from the original 4600. Did that just disappear
when
you went out with the mechanic?

He probably changed plugs with the 10 hour service.

Other than taking too long to look at your boat, how did the mechanic
screw
you? What was the $175 charge? You got the 10 hour maintenance. And what?
A
new prop? Or 2 hours of his time to change props a couple of times and go
for
test rides? I didn't think that was all supposed to be free.

No offense meant but I'm missing something here. Unless you're saying it's
his
fault that you had the wrong size prop.......But even then, you should
have
known from the first day you went out and got 4600 rpm's that you were
overpropped. You wouldn't have needed to take the boat back for service.
Just
change props. I've never seen your boat and I could have told you to go
down 2
sizes in pitch.

Barry

Both the boat and motor are new. I am saying it is all his fault.
The motor was never water tested before I picked it up. If it was
then they would have discovered that it was not propped correctly.
When I called to see if the service was completed he told me had
checked out the motor and the problem was water in the gas. So why
then when I picked up the boat and went on the water test it still
failed to reach the proper range if the "problem" had been fixed???
This loser hadn't even water tested the boat at this point!
Furthermore, I don't know where you buy your equipment, but when I
spend 14K I expect to have the boat water tested and propped correctly
upon delivery! I even had to adjust the rollers on my trailer
myself!! Your telling me it is up to me to figure out the correct
prop size?? I am not talking about fine tuning the boats performance
here, I am talking about performance listed in the operators manual.
The total bill was $292 the $175 was just for the "water in gas"
problem.