alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

I have a camera buying question I was going to post to the subject NG but it
won't load for me. Is it down?

Sorry for the OT post but have decided to get a Fujifilm S6000 and have
found one for $310 OTD from B&H Photo Vidio. Other similarly priced sources
are Butterfly, H1, and Amazon. I won't deal with Amazon due to some issues
I've had with them in the past.

Anyway, do you have any comments on either the camera or the sources and
price?

TIA,

Butch

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

Butch Davis wrote:
I have a camera buying question I was going to post to the subject NG but it
won't load for me. Is it down?

Sorry for the OT post but have decided to get a Fujifilm S6000 and have
found one for $310 OTD from B&H Photo Vidio. Other similarly priced sources
are Butterfly, H1, and Amazon. I won't deal with Amazon due to some issues
I've had with them in the past.

Anyway, do you have any comments on either the camera or the sources and
price?

TIA,

Butch



I don't know anything about that camera, but B&H is a first-class
operation.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

Thanks, Harry. That's good enough for me.

Butch
"HK" wrote in message
...
Butch Davis wrote:
I have a camera buying question I was going to post to the subject NG but
it won't load for me. Is it down?

Sorry for the OT post but have decided to get a Fujifilm S6000 and have
found one for $310 OTD from B&H Photo Vidio. Other similarly priced
sources are Butterfly, H1, and Amazon. I won't deal with Amazon due to
some issues I've had with them in the past.

Anyway, do you have any comments on either the camera or the sources and
price?

TIA,

Butch

I don't know anything about that camera, but B&H is a first-class
operation.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:31:01 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:

Anyway, do you have any comments on either the camera or the sources and
price?

B&H is a great place to do business and very responsive.

I've also had great success with Adorama - another great camera site.

Out of curiosity, why not go with one of the new Nikon DSLRs?

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:31:01 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:

Anyway, do you have any comments on either the camera or the sources and
price?

B&H is a great place to do business and very responsive.

I've also had great success with Adorama - another great camera site.

Out of curiosity, why not go with one of the new Nikon DSLRs?

It's a great question, and I suppose the most likely answer would be cash
outlay. The Nikon D40, which would be the closest match to the S6000 would
be about double the cost when equipped with a decent lens. However, I
believe it would be a much more robust camera with far greater expansion
possibilities and superior image quality. The S6000 does have a few
operational advantages to the D40, but in my opinion, they are far
outweighed by its limitations. Here's a snip from the conclusion of Steve's
Digicams' review of the S6000:

High-end digicams and low-end dSLR's have a great deal of overlap in terms
of functions and can be close in price. If you are weighing the S6000fd
versus a dSLR, you'll find that they have many similarities, including
standard zoom range, mechanical zoom ring, sensitivity range, and extensive
exposure and processing controls. But a dSLR offers better image quality
(especially at high sensitivity settings), the flexibility of
interchangeable lenses, more robust continuous shooting, superior support
for RAW images, faster AF, and the benefit of an eye-level optical
viewfinder. The S6000fd has its advantages, including high-quality VGA-sized
movies, intensified viewfinder image in dim lighting, menu operation and
image playback on its eye-level EVF, Intelligent Face Detection, built-in
macro/super macro modes and a lower price.

End quote.

But I'll also chime in with a thumbs up for B&H. They are a model for all
other online retailers to follow. You are more than safe when doing
commerce with them.

An excellent alternative to the S6000/D40 choice would be to find a good
used D70s body and appropriate lens. Same resolution as the S6000, but a
much more serious and capable camera, and could most likely be bought for
about the same money as an S6000. They're all over Craig's List. I
originally intended to put my D70 on Craig's list after I bought the D200,
but for what I could get for it, I'd just as soon keep it for a backup
camera.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

Thanks guys, for the good advice. I know a dSLR, especially a Nikon would
be a superior performer. However, I just don't need all that superioity any
more. Now I just take pictures for fun and on a budget.

At $310 for the 6000 it's a no brainer for my needs. It's really more than
I need but at least I can pay for it and can pretend I'm back in the game.

Now all I have to decide is what software and printer to get. Probably a
$20 to $40 disc and a photo printer for around $200.

Butch
"RG" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:31:01 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:

Anyway, do you have any comments on either the camera or the sources and
price?

B&H is a great place to do business and very responsive.

I've also had great success with Adorama - another great camera site.

Out of curiosity, why not go with one of the new Nikon DSLRs?

It's a great question, and I suppose the most likely answer would be cash
outlay. The Nikon D40, which would be the closest match to the S6000
would be about double the cost when equipped with a decent lens. However,
I believe it would be a much more robust camera with far greater expansion
possibilities and superior image quality. The S6000 does have a few
operational advantages to the D40, but in my opinion, they are far
outweighed by its limitations. Here's a snip from the conclusion of
Steve's Digicams' review of the S6000:

High-end digicams and low-end dSLR's have a great deal of overlap in terms
of functions and can be close in price. If you are weighing the S6000fd
versus a dSLR, you'll find that they have many similarities, including
standard zoom range, mechanical zoom ring, sensitivity range, and
extensive exposure and processing controls. But a dSLR offers better image
quality (especially at high sensitivity settings), the flexibility of
interchangeable lenses, more robust continuous shooting, superior support
for RAW images, faster AF, and the benefit of an eye-level optical
viewfinder. The S6000fd has its advantages, including high-quality
VGA-sized movies, intensified viewfinder image in dim lighting, menu
operation and image playback on its eye-level EVF, Intelligent Face
Detection, built-in macro/super macro modes and a lower price.

End quote.

But I'll also chime in with a thumbs up for B&H. They are a model for all
other online retailers to follow. You are more than safe when doing
commerce with them.

An excellent alternative to the S6000/D40 choice would be to find a good
used D70s body and appropriate lens. Same resolution as the S6000, but a
much more serious and capable camera, and could most likely be bought for
about the same money as an S6000. They're all over Craig's List. I
originally intended to put my D70 on Craig's list after I bought the D200,
but for what I could get for it, I'd just as soon keep it for a backup
camera.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

"Butch Davis" wrote in message
nk.net...

Now all I have to decide is what software and printer to get. Probably a
$20 to $40 disc and a photo printer for around $200.


I have some thoughts on that, as well. Adobe's Photoshop is the gold
standard when it comes to photo editing software, and that's not likely to
change any time soon. Since there is a considerable investment in time to
get your digital editing skillset up to speed, it should be invested in
software that is likely to remain relevant for a long time to come. Also,
there is no shortage of reference and tutorial books as well as free
web-based tutorials for Photoshop. This is one of those times that cruising
in the mainstream has its rewards. The bad news is that Photoshop sells for
about twice what you're about to spend on your camera. The good news is
that Photoshop has a little brother called Photoshop Elements, that has
about 85% of the photo editing power of the full-blown version, uses the
same tools and concepts as the big dog, and has almost as many books and
tutorials available. It lists for $99, but can be found on sale for as low
as $50. It's just what you need and want, there's no reason to buy any more
or less. The current version is version 5, and it's the one you want. It
is a significant upgrade from prior versions.

When I bought my first digital camera seven years ago, I also thought that
I'd want to print my own prints. I purchased a wide-carriage Epson Stylus
Photo 1270, and a bunch of the special glossy papers to go with it. As it
turned out, I found out that I really didn't do as much printing as I
thought I would. Most photo viewing and sharing was done digitally, on a
display of some sort. It's the digital paradigm versus the film paradigm.
Although the quality of my home-grown prints were unbelievably good, they
were in fact a PIA to produce. I learned that it was sooo much easier and
more cost effective to upload the digital files to a local professional
color lab and let them print them as needed. You don't need to use a pro
lab, there are likely a number of other local choices in your area as well,
such as Costco, Walgreens, Wal-Mart and others. I junked the Epson ink jet
for a color laser, which for non-photo printing is so much easier to live
with than a temperamental ink jet. I'd hold off on the photo printer and
try outsourcing your printing and see if that doesn't meet your needs.

The S6000 is an interesting choice, and you could certainly do worse. It
has a very versatile and reasonably fast lens, along with image
stabilization. Before I bought my D70, I considered a Panasonic Super Zoom,
which is essentially identical in concept to the S6000. The deal killer for
me back then on the Panasonic was the Electronic View Finder (EVF). The EVF
is essentially a tiny eye-level LCD screen that you look at to compose your
photos. Unfortunately they have a wicked delay to them, and a very
artificial feel to them versus looking through a nice TTL optical view
finder. It was a deal killer for me then and would be today on the S6000 as
well. The whole point of that purchase was to get back to a camera that
handled and responded in the same way that my film SLRs did but in a digital
format. The EVF broke that familiar feel I had always enjoyed with my film
SLRs. The DSLR kept it very much in tact. If you're coming from a 35mm
film SLR background, I don't think you'll like the EVF (Evil View Finder).

At any rate, you will most certainly enjoy the transformation from film to
digital, no matter what camera you end up with. The combination of a
digital camera, digital editing software, and the internet has made
photography much more engaging and satisfying than film photography ever was
for me. Enjoy.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:03:29 GMT, "RG" wrote:

At any rate, you will most certainly enjoy the transformation from film to
digital, no matter what camera you end up with. The combination of a
digital camera, digital editing software, and the internet has made
photography much more engaging and satisfying than film photography ever was
for me. Enjoy.

I agree with one exception.

Paint Shop Pro by Corel is more than adequate editing software. The
full boat version is $99 and does what Photoshop does only
differently. If you are just starting off editing digital photos, PSP
is probably the way to go - most bang for the buck. Photoshop
Elements is nice, but it's not comparable to the complete version of
PSP. It's only limitation is that is doesn't handle all versions of
RAW and you wouldn't be shooting in RAW anyway.

I think Eisboch uses Paint Shop Pro - maybe he can chime in.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:03:29 GMT, "RG" wrote:

I agree with one exception.

Paint Shop Pro by Corel is more than adequate editing software. The
full boat version is $99 and does what Photoshop does only
differently. If you are just starting off editing digital photos, PSP
is probably the way to go - most bang for the buck. Photoshop
Elements is nice, but it's not comparable to the complete version of
PSP. It's only limitation is that is doesn't handle all versions of
RAW and you wouldn't be shooting in RAW anyway.


He might. The S6000 does have raw capability. I remember many years ago
using CorelDRAW. It was the king of graphic programs in its day. Then
Corel bought WordPerfect, and they've been steamrolled into a second-tier
software company by the likes of Microsoft and Adobe ever since. When it
comes to buying software, I'm a firm believer in hitching your wagon to the
horse most likely to remain pulling for the long run. Especially if you're
starting from scratch in a particular genre. So for me, the issue isn't so
much about whether PSP is capable, I have no reason to believe it is not.
Rather the issue for me is how much third party support is offered in the
form of books, magazine articles and online tutorials. I've bought a number
of such books over the years, and have taken advantage of web-based
instructional aides as well and have found them invaluable. I also subscribe
to several digital photography magazines as. All their how-two articles
seem to assume Photoshop speak, and it's really not too surprising, given
the market share of Adobe's products. So, I would advise a guy just
starting out in photo editing software to hitch his wagon to Adobe. And
besides, Corel is Canadian, which is reason enough to avoid them.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:39:18 GMT, "RG" wrote:

And besides, Corel is Canadian, which is reason enough to
avoid them.

Intersting take - I gather your not familiar with the history of PSP.

It was the original digital photo manipulation software. In fact,
many of the features of what eventually became Adobe Photoshop were
lifted almost directly from PSP. It's been around since 1992 and is
cross platform for Mac and Windows.

And it's still the only software available under $100 that handles
both vector and raster manipulation.

It's every bit as capable as Adobe and in some ways, better.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:39:18 GMT, "RG" wrote:

And besides, Corel is Canadian, which is reason enough to
avoid them.

Intersting take - I gather your not familiar with the history of PSP.

Nope.


It was the original digital photo manipulation software. In fact,
many of the features of what eventually became Adobe Photoshop were
lifted almost directly from PSP. It's been around since 1992 and is
cross platform for Mac and Windows.

Sounds very much like the history of CorelDRAW.



And it's still the only software available under $100 that handles
both vector and raster manipulation.


How or why would you use vector manipulation in pixel-based photo editing?
I believe Elements uses vector manipulation when you ask it to build frames
around your photos and silly stuff like that, but I don't understand where
vector manipulation would come into play in the actual editing process. Can
you assist?



It's every bit as capable as Adobe and in some ways, better.


As I said earlier, the issue for me isn't about capability. I assume both
are capable. WordPerfect is a capable word processor and QuatroPro is a
capable spreadsheet. I just wouldn't use them over Word or Excel. When it
comes to software, I believe in using products that dominate their market in
terms of user base. It's one of the reasons I don't use a Mac, which is
just as capable as a PC and in some ways, better.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:03:29 GMT, "RG" wrote:

At any rate, you will most certainly enjoy the transformation from film to
digital, no matter what camera you end up with. The combination of a
digital camera, digital editing software, and the internet has made
photography much more engaging and satisfying than film photography ever was
for me. Enjoy.

I agree with one exception.

Paint Shop Pro by Corel is more than adequate editing software. The
full boat version is $99 and does what Photoshop does only
differently. If you are just starting off editing digital photos, PSP
is probably the way to go - most bang for the buck. Photoshop
Elements is nice, but it's not comparable to the complete version of
PSP. It's only limitation is that is doesn't handle all versions of
RAW and you wouldn't be shooting in RAW anyway.

I think Eisboch uses Paint Shop Pro - maybe he can chime in.

PSP and PS Elements has had MAJOR problems with RAW and using Dual Core
processors, especially AMD processors.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

Wow!!! Guys, all very intereting stuff. I love it when a thread gets kinda
highjacked and the result is more and better information. You're all
forgiven. :=)

Excellent point on the photo printer. I have been leaning toward the Epson
PM280 @ $200 or so for the on board capabilities plus the ability to burn a
CD on board. Plus, it's pretty portable. Based on what you've said,
however, I'm going to try the lab route at first and see if it's not a
better solution.

As to software, I can see I need to look into that a little more. That's
just too much information to absorb immediately.

I've always liked SLR film cameras and used a wide variety back in the late
fifties and early sixties. I don't think the EVF will bother me as I used a
Rollie (2Xlens reflex) 2 1/4 X 3 1/4 with 120 roll film for a while and
liked the large image.... next best thing to a Graflex with a ground glass
back. I thought the Graflex was the absolute best and most versitile but it
got heavy after a bit of time. Add that weight to the old and enormous
Honywell strobe with wet cell batteries and the Rollie became a great
device. Assorted 35mms were wonderful, too, but the strobe was so large we
attached the camera to the flash head. I still own and use a Kodak Retina
II but it really needs to be overhauled. Where to do it is going to be a
problem, I guess.

Back then we did all our own black & white printing but the color work went
to Technicolor Labs. I used to love darkroom work and waching the prints as
they came up. Enlarger work was fun too and I became a reasonably talented
"dodger" befor joining the Army and giving all that up. I was just a kid
then and going hungry and sleeping on friends sofas didn't bother me much.
I'll tell you something for nothing.... free lance press work was a very
tough racket in those days. But, on my goodness all the girls we used to
meet.

Butch
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
. ..
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:03:29 GMT, "RG" wrote:

At any rate, you will most certainly enjoy the transformation from film
to digital, no matter what camera you end up with. The combination of a
digital camera, digital editing software, and the internet has made
photography much more engaging and satisfying than film photography ever
was for me. Enjoy.

I agree with one exception.

Paint Shop Pro by Corel is more than adequate editing software. The
full boat version is $99 and does what Photoshop does only
differently. If you are just starting off editing digital photos, PSP
is probably the way to go - most bang for the buck. Photoshop
Elements is nice, but it's not comparable to the complete version of
PSP. It's only limitation is that is doesn't handle all versions of
RAW and you wouldn't be shooting in RAW anyway.

I think Eisboch uses Paint Shop Pro - maybe he can chime in.

PSP and PS Elements has had MAJOR problems with RAW and using Dual Core
processors, especially AMD processors.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

Butch Davis wrote:
Wow!!! Guys, all very intereting stuff. I love it when a thread gets kinda
highjacked and the result is more and better information. You're all
forgiven. :=)

Excellent point on the photo printer. I have been leaning toward the Epson
PM280 @ $200 or so for the on board capabilities plus the ability to burn a
CD on board. Plus, it's pretty portable. Based on what you've said,
however, I'm going to try the lab route at first and see if it's not a
better solution.

As to software, I can see I need to look into that a little more. That's
just too much information to absorb immediately.

I've always liked SLR film cameras and used a wide variety back in the late
fifties and early sixties. I don't think the EVF will bother me as I used a
Rollie (2Xlens reflex) 2 1/4 X 3 1/4 with 120 roll film for a while and
liked the large image.... next best thing to a Graflex with a ground glass
back. I thought the Graflex was the absolute best and most versitile but it
got heavy after a bit of time. Add that weight to the old and enormous
Honywell strobe with wet cell batteries and the Rollie became a great
device. Assorted 35mms were wonderful, too, but the strobe was so large we
attached the camera to the flash head. I still own and use a Kodak Retina
II but it really needs to be overhauled. Where to do it is going to be a
problem, I guess.

Back then we did all our own black & white printing but the color work went
to Technicolor Labs. I used to love darkroom work and waching the prints as
they came up. Enlarger work was fun too and I became a reasonably talented
"dodger" befor joining the Army and giving all that up. I was just a kid
then and going hungry and sleeping on friends sofas didn't bother me much.
I'll tell you something for nothing.... free lance press work was a very
tough racket in those days. But, on my goodness all the girls we used to
meet.

Butch


Buy whatever sort of camera you'll use a lot. With the smaller, non-SLR
cameras, just make sure by reading reviews that you are getting a good
optical zoom lens.

We just returned from a week's vacation, and I took my wife's little
Canon A710 digital and one of my rangefinder film cameras. I left the
SLRs at home because they are big, bulky, and heavy. For a digital
camera, my wife's little Canon takes as nice a vacation snapshot as
you'd like, and it fits into a pants pocket.

Printing digital color photos is fun, but it is not as inexpensive as
having an outside service do it. A decent photo printer you use to print
the occasional print might be the ticket. I have a Canon i9900 printer,
and it does a terrific job with larger prints. It has 8 inkwells, as it
were.

Almost any software you feel comfortable with will handle 90% of your
"processing" needs. I have the latest Photoshop, but only because I can
buy the "academic" versions at a really low price. I don't doctor up my
photos much, though. I compose through the viewfinder, and if I am
taking "nature" photos, I like the photos to represent what I saw, not
what I would have liked to have seen.

Keep it simple is the best approach, at least for me.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Paint Shop Pro by Corel is more than adequate editing software. The
full boat version is $99 and does what Photoshop does only
differently. If you are just starting off editing digital photos, PSP
is probably the way to go - most bang for the buck. Photoshop
Elements is nice, but it's not comparable to the complete version of
PSP. It's only limitation is that is doesn't handle all versions of
RAW and you wouldn't be shooting in RAW anyway.

I think Eisboch uses Paint Shop Pro - maybe he can chime in.


I have been using Paint Shop Pro X. (version 10.03) I don't know if
there is a difference between Paint Shop Pro and Paint Shop Pro X, but IIRC
it was a bit more than 99 bucks.
(Closer to 300, I think .... but the memory is going fast).

I does handle both RAW camera images and RAW graphics. Other than that, I
don't know enough about digital photography editing to really comment on it
versus Photoshop. Paint Brush has more capabilities and features than I
can possibly learn to use.

Eisboch

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:47:08 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .


Paint Shop Pro by Corel is more than adequate editing software. The
full boat version is $99 and does what Photoshop does only
differently. If you are just starting off editing digital photos, PSP
is probably the way to go - most bang for the buck. Photoshop
Elements is nice, but it's not comparable to the complete version of
PSP. It's only limitation is that is doesn't handle all versions of
RAW and you wouldn't be shooting in RAW anyway.

I think Eisboch uses Paint Shop Pro - maybe he can chime in.


I have been using Paint Shop Pro X. (version 10.03) I don't know if
there is a difference between Paint Shop Pro and Paint Shop Pro X, but IIRC
it was a bit more than 99 bucks.
(Closer to 300, I think .... but the memory is going fast).

Gee - I guess. PSP XI sells for $79 in the box. :)

Don't worry - I understand. I can't remember my name half the time.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

On Jul 4, 9:01 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:39:18 GMT, "RG" wrote:
And besides, Corel is Canadian, which is reason enough to
avoid them.

Intersting take - I gather your not familiar with the history of PSP.

It was the original digital photo manipulation software. In fact,
many of the features of what eventually became Adobe Photoshop were
lifted almost directly from PSP. It's been around since 1992 and is
cross platform for Mac and Windows.

And it's still the only software available under $100 that handles
both vector and raster manipulation.

It's every bit as capable as Adobe and in some ways, better.

Wow, I remember when PSP was from Jasc, we had one of the earliest
versions. Used Corel for a while too, the mrs. did a 3d fish tank
thing, maybe I can find it, prett cool. We did a couple of fliers for
a retirement home with PSP too, made a watercolor rendition of the
building and grounds. Had the 4 color seperations done and they have
been using it ever since. Still use PSP for everything digital though.

alt.binaries.picture.oceans.sport Down?
 

On Jul 5, 7:39 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:47:08 -0400, "RCE" wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .

Paint Shop Pro by Corel is more than adequate editing software. The
full boat version is $99 and does what Photoshop does only
differently. If you are just starting off editing digital photos, PSP
is probably the way to go - most bang for the buck. Photoshop
Elements is nice, but it's not comparable to the complete version of
PSP. It's only limitation is that is doesn't handle all versions of
RAW and you wouldn't be shooting in RAW anyway.

I think Eisboch uses Paint Shop Pro - maybe he can chime in.

I have been using Paint Shop Pro X. (version 10.03) I don't know if
there is a difference between Paint Shop Pro and Paint Shop Pro X, but IIRC
it was a bit more than 99 bucks.
(Closer to 300, I think .... but the memory is going fast).

Gee - I guess. PSP XI sells for $79 in the box. :)

Don't worry - I understand. I can't remember my name half the time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Got a couple of upgrades since 7 but we keep going back. There are
functins like quick zoom in 7 that they eliminated in 8. As well as a
few other klunky things I don't need.

Just remembered too, the first several years we used Jasc, it was
free. Anyway, time to mow the lawn, should have gone fishing this
morning. I can't judge weather up here for s**t.