2nd thoughts
 

Quick background. We sold our 25 foot express cruiser and bought a 22
foot alaskan bulkhead trailerable cruiser (Campion) and an '82 30 foot
Carver AC. The Campion is for the Columbia River wherea the Carver is
for cruising Puget Sound in the offseason. Summers, it is chartered.
Last weekend, most of the work was finalized on the Carver and we
delivered, with the help of a charter captain, from LaConner to
Anacortes yesterday. The boat will be in charter for the summer (4
weeks are already booked).

We've really enjoyed extended stays on the Carver but....getting the
boat underway and moored that has me very concerned. We faced wind and
a strong tide current which took us an hour just to get away from the
dock. We had to move another boat too in the process. Arrival was a
similar challenge. The captain had to do it....no way I could. This
raised our eyebrows on the feasability and expenses of using the boat
in the off season. On open water, she handles like a dream. In close
quarters, she's a toad....and I question if the white knuckles
experiences we'll have docking it is worth the reward, not to mention
the cost of moorage and gas for twin crusaders.

Consequently, we're thinking about selling it after charter season. In
it's place, buy a creme puff RoadTrek Class B RV (campervan) for
around 25k and haul the all season 22 footer Campion wherever we
please. Under tow, the van get 12-15 mpg. The boat gets 4 mpg. Heck of
a lot cheaper than moorage and gas for a 30 footer. Also, we have the
versatility of sleeping in the RV or the boat, cruising land or sea or
both.

Our other thought is chartering the Carver year after year and while
using it ourselves a few times each year. Offseason, put it on the
hard. If the income vs. expenses is on the plus side each year, then
essentially somebody else is buying our boat while I enjoy some nice
tax benefits.

Thoughts??

-Greg
Kalama, Washington

2nd thoughts
 

On Apr 16, 12:05�pm, "dene" wrote:
Quick background. We sold our 25 foot express cruiser and bought a 22
foot alaskan bulkhead trailerable cruiser (Campion) and an '82 30 foot
Carver AC. The Campion is for the Columbia River wherea the Carver is
for cruising Puget Sound in the offseason. *Summers, it is chartered.
Last weekend, most of the work was finalized on the Carver and we
delivered, with the help of a charter captain, from LaConner to
Anacortes yesterday. The boat will be in charter for the summer (4
weeks are already booked).

We've really enjoyed extended stays on the Carver but....getting the
boat underway and moored that has me very concerned. We faced wind and
a strong tide current which took us an hour just to get away from the
dock. We had to move another boat too in the process. Arrival was a
similar challenge. The captain had to do it....no way I could. This
raised our eyebrows on the feasability and expenses of using the boat
in the off season. On open water, she handles like a dream. In close
quarters, she's a toad....and I question if the white knuckles
experiences we'll have docking it is worth the reward, not to mention
the cost of moorage and gas for twin crusaders.

Consequently, we're thinking about selling it after charter season. In
it's place, buy a creme puff RoadTrek Class B RV (campervan) for
around 25k and haul the all season 22 footer Campion wherever we
please. Under tow, the van get 12-15 mpg. The boat gets 4 mpg. Heck of
a lot cheaper than moorage and gas for a 30 footer. Also, we have the
versatility of sleeping in the RV or the boat, cruising land or sea or
both.

Our other thought is chartering the Carver year after year and while
using it ourselves a few times each year. Offseason, put it on the
hard. If the income vs. expenses is on the plus side each year, then
essentially somebody else is buying our boat while I enjoy some nice
tax benefits.

Thoughts??

-Greg
Kalama, Washington

There was a time in that charter captain's life when he would have
felt uncomfortable docking your 30' Carver as well. Nobody is a born
boat handler.
Takes practice, experience, and a few hard knocks along the way.

Depending on just which direction and how fast the Swinomish is
running, it really can be a bit tricky to get away from the dock at
LaConner. If you were tied up at one of the guest docks and didn't
have a lot of room fore and or aft between boats, there's a
possibiilty that it could have been downright challenging. Since I
wasn't there, I won't second guess the guy who was- but without any
more specific information it sounds a lot like one of those situations
that would go much smoother with the use of a spring line or two.
It's normal for skippers with a lot of experience on a specific boat
to pay extra attention and breathe a minor sigh of relief when
successfully landing or departing during a strong ebb or flood in the
Swinomish.

I'd suggest hiring somebody to help you get up to speed in the
handling department. Did you place it for charter with ABC? If so, I
know they have some suitable trainers available.

Anytime you get a new boat, it takes some time to get the feel of it.
Tell yourself that you'll give it 4 90-minute practice sessions before
throwing in the towel; I wouldn't be surprised to hear that you were
able to develop sufficient confidence.

2nd thoughts
 

On Apr 16, 5:50?pm, "Chuck Gould" wrote:
On Apr 16, 12:05?pm, "dene" wrote:





Quick background. We sold our 25 foot express cruiser and bought a 22
foot alaskan bulkhead trailerable cruiser (Campion) and an '82 30 foot
Carver AC. The Campion is for the Columbia River wherea the Carver is
for cruising Puget Sound in the offseason. ?Summers, it is chartered.
Last weekend, most of the work was finalized on the Carver and we
delivered, with the help of a charter captain, from LaConner to
Anacortes yesterday. The boat will be in charter for the summer (4
weeks are already booked).

We've really enjoyed extended stays on the Carver but....getting the
boat underway and moored that has me very concerned. We faced wind and
a strong tide current which took us an hour just to get away from the
dock. We had to move another boat too in the process. Arrival was a
similar challenge. The captain had to do it....no way I could. This
raised our eyebrows on the feasability and expenses of using the boat
in the off season. On open water, she handles like a dream. In close
quarters, she's a toad....and I question if the white knuckles
experiences we'll have docking it is worth the reward, not to mention
the cost of moorage and gas for twin crusaders.

Consequently, we're thinking about selling it after charter season. In
it's place, buy a creme puff RoadTrek Class B RV (campervan) for
around 25k and haul the all season 22 footer Campion wherever we
please. Under tow, the van get 12-15 mpg. The boat gets 4 mpg. Heck of
a lot cheaper than moorage and gas for a 30 footer. Also, we have the
versatility of sleeping in the RV or the boat, cruising land or sea or
both.

Our other thought is chartering the Carver year after year and while
using it ourselves a few times each year. Offseason, put it on the
hard. If the income vs. expenses is on the plus side each year, then
essentially somebody else is buying our boat while I enjoy some nice
tax benefits.

Thoughts??

-Greg
Kalama, Washington

There was a time in that charter captain's life when he would have
felt uncomfortable docking your 30' Carver as well. Nobody is a born
boat handler.
Takes practice, experience, and a few hard knocks along the way.

Depending on just which direction and how fast the Swinomish is
running, it really can be a bit tricky to get away from the dock at
LaConner. If you were tied up at one of the guest docks and didn't
have a lot of room fore and or aft between boats, there's a
possibiilty that it could have been downright challenging. Since I
wasn't there, I won't second guess the guy who was- but without any
more specific information it sounds a lot like one of those situations
that would go much smoother with the use of a spring line or two.
It's normal for skippers with a lot of experience on a specific boat
to pay extra attention and breathe a minor sigh of relief when
successfully landing or departing during a strong ebb or flood in the
Swinomish.

I'd suggest hiring somebody to help you get up to speed in the
handling department. Did you place it for charter with ABC? If so, I
know they have some suitable trainers available.

Anytime you get a new boat, it takes some time to get the feel of it.
Tell yourself that you'll give it 4 90-minute practice sessions before
throwing in the towel; I wouldn't be surprised to hear that you were
able to develop sufficient confidence.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You're correct on all counts, Chuck. We did do the spring line trick
but it didn't work. Couldn't get the stern to spin against the
current. Fortunately, LaConner will not be my home port.

There is more to it than my willingness to learn. My wife is
uncomfortable with her duties as well. She has a bad knee which makes
it tough to move fast or jump onto the dock.

There was an excellent article about trailerable trawlers in this
months PassageMaker that got us thinking too. Say we want to see Port
Townsend and then Victoria. Hook up the boat to the RV and go.
Weather's good....boat over. Weather's bad....unhook the boat/trailer
at a launch or boatyard, secure it, and then explore the town.
Later..take a ferry to Victoria and then come back and get the boat
when we leave. The Roadtrek is a 19 foot van which will fit in any
regular parking spot. Best of both worlds instead of being solely
dependent on one.

-Greg

2nd thoughts
 

On Apr 16, 5:50?pm, "Chuck Gould" wrote:


I'd suggest hiring somebody to help you get up to speed in the
handling department. Did you place it for charter with ABC? If so, I
know they have some suitable trainers available.

www.chartersnw.com which recently merged with ABC. The co-owner,
Capt. Bill, is the one who trained us. It took all his experience
plus 4 hands to get if off the guest dock.

If you go to the link, our Carver is "She Said Yes"

-Greg

2nd thoughts
 

Around 4/16/2007 10:49 PM, dene wrote:

On Apr 16, 5:50?pm, "Chuck Gould" wrote:

I'd suggest hiring somebody to help you get up to speed in the
handling department. Did you place it for charter with ABC? If so, I
know they have some suitable trainers available.

www.chartersnw.com which recently merged with ABC. The co-owner,
Capt. Bill, is the one who trained us. It took all his experience
plus 4 hands to get if off the guest dock.

In LaConner, it can take all of that muscle, experience, and then some
when the current is running!

I usually stop there for gas on my way to Lopez Is. and even with a 14'
that's as maneuverable as a single outboard can be, it sometimes takes
me two or three attempts to land and one very fast and often
hair-raising attempt to leave. ;)


If you go to the link, our Carver is "She Said Yes"

Looks comfortable!



--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats." -- Kenneth Grahame
~~ Ventis secundis, tene cursum ~~

2nd thoughts
 

On Apr 16, 10:47�pm, dene wrote:

You're correct on all counts, Chuck. *We did do the spring line trick
but it didn't work. *Couldn't get the stern to spin against the
current. *Fortunately, LaConner will not be my home port.

Were you tied parallel to the channel on a guest dock or in one of the
slips back behind? Your description of events leads to to suspect you
were in a slip, as if you were on the guest dock and headed "upstream"
for that portion of the current cycle you would have had a lot more
luck releasing the bow first, letting the current carry it out a bit
from the dock, and then using a *lot* of throttle to get out into the
channel before you find yourself in real trouble with any boat that
might be behind you. I think that current at LaConner can run
3-4 knots routinely and somewhat more during extreme tide changes.
(I've personally been known to send the wife up to town to do some
shopping for a couple of hours and wait for things to settle down a
bit when currents there are extreme. Sometimes the smartest thing to
do is wait for better conditions).

If you were back in the covered slips, you would have had to turn
against the current. That's a lot more difficult than getting away
from a parallel side tie.
Fortunately, the current is not as severe as you get closer to shore
as slips are between a couple of points. Even the inside of the guest
dock has less current- at last near the surface- than the outside, as
the float itself diverts some of the flow from the channel.






There is more to it than my willingness to learn. *My wife is
uncomfortable with her duties as well. *She has a bad knee which makes
it tough to move fast or jump onto the dock.

There was an excellent article about trailerable trawlers in this
months PassageMaker that got us thinking too. *Say we want to see Port
Townsend and then Victoria. *Hook up the boat to the RV and go.
Weather's good....boat over. *Weather's bad....unhook the boat/trailer
at a launch or boatyard, secure it, and then explore the town.
Later..take a ferry to Victoria and then come back and get the boat
when we leave. *The Roadtrek is a 19 foot van which will fit in any
regular parking spot. *Best of both worlds instead of being solely
dependent on one.

-Greg- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The most important thing to do is be out on the water and enjoying
life.
Whether you go sail or power is perhaps the second most major
consideration, the general style of boat is probably third, and the
brand of boat is no higher than 4th. IMO. As long as you figure out a
way to go boating, you'll be happy.

But give your Carver a chance. There had to be some reasons that you
were attracted to this boat and this concept; and unless those have
changed a lot
(in favor of a more trailerable boat?) it will be just as true that
there will be learning curve for almost everybody with any new boat.

2nd thoughts
 

On Apr 17, 9:23 am, Chuck Gould wrote:
On Apr 16, 10:47?pm, dene wrote:



You're correct on all counts, Chuck. ?We did do the spring line trick
but it didn't work. ?Couldn't get the stern to spin against the
current. ?Fortunately, LaConner will not be my home port.

Were you tied parallel to the channel on a guest dock or in one of the
slips back behind? Your description of events leads to to suspect you
were in a slip, as if you were on the guest dock and headed "upstream"
for that portion of the current cycle you would have had a lot more
luck releasing the bow first, letting the current carry it out a bit
from the dock, and then using a *lot* of throttle to get out into the
channel before you find yourself in real trouble with any boat that
might be behind you. I think that current at LaConner can run
3-4 knots routinely and somewhat more during extreme tide changes.
(I've personally been known to send the wife up to town to do some
shopping for a couple of hours and wait for things to settle down a
bit when currents there are extreme. Sometimes the smartest thing to
do is wait for better conditions).

If you were back in the covered slips, you would have had to turn
against the current. That's a lot more difficult than getting away
from a parallel side tie.
Fortunately, the current is not as severe as you get closer to shore
as slips are between a couple of points. Even the inside of the guest
dock has less current- at last near the surface- than the outside, as
the float itself diverts some of the flow from the channel.

Worse than your speculation. We were on the walkway which is 90
degrees to the channel. The bow was facing the reservation.
So....the current was hitting us square on the starboard side.

Normally, we'd waited until the afternoon for the tide to change but
time was a luxury we didn't have. Fortunately, we had a captain who
knew what he was doing. It would have been an impossible situation
for my wife and I.


The most important thing to do is be out on the water and enjoying
life.
Whether you go sail or power is perhaps the second most major
consideration, the general style of boat is probably third, and the
brand of boat is no higher than 4th. IMO. As long as you figure out a
way to go boating, you'll be happy.

True!

But give your Carver a chance. There had to be some reasons that you
were attracted to this boat and this concept; and unless those have
changed a lot
(in favor of a more trailerable boat?) it will be just as true that
there will be learning curve for almost everybody with any new boat.- Hide quoted text -

We were attracted to the layout....still are. I don't know if you saw
it but it is a very comfortable boat, especially for me as a six
footer. Our idea was to explore the Sound in the offseason while
incurring charter income in the summer. However, given it's toad-like
characteristics, we might be better served with a smaller boat and use
an Van RV (which features king size bed, galley, head, etc.) as our
means to creature comforts, vs. the floating RV the Carver is. We
bought the Carver and Campion at the same time, designating the
Campion for the Columbia River. What I didn't anticipate was the ride
and handling characteristics of the Campion. Easily the nicest
handling boat we've had (it's our 4th 22+ footer). The previous owner
used it for Coast Guard Aux. purposes in Oceanside Ca. He claimed it
could handle most sea conditions and he's right. This "surprise" got
us thinking about the feasability of simply transporting it to the
Sound and back, or leaving it in a boatyard for weeks or months vs.
paying for moorage for a large, gas guzzlin toad that limits us by
land and sea.

The day will come when we will want another boat the size of the
Carver, particularily if we live on it for extended period of times.
But for now, we're limited to the weekends, which begs for more
flexibility than the Carver can give us.

-Greg

2nd thoughts
 

On Apr 16, 11:50 pm, Garth Almgren wrote:
Around 4/16/2007 10:49 PM, dene wrote:

On Apr 16, 5:50?pm, "Chuck Gould" wrote:

I'd suggest hiring somebody to help you get up to speed in the
handling department. Did you place it for charter with ABC? If so, I
know they have some suitable trainers available.

www.chartersnw.comwhich recently merged with ABC. The co-owner,
Capt. Bill, is the one who trained us. It took all his experience
plus 4 hands to get if off the guest dock.

In LaConner, it can take all of that muscle, experience, and then some
when the current is running!

I usually stop there for gas on my way to Lopez Is. and even with a 14'
that's as maneuverable as a single outboard can be, it sometimes takes
me two or three attempts to land and one very fast and often
hair-raising attempt to leave. ;)



If you go to the link, our Carver is "She Said Yes"

Looks comfortable!



Thanks!! It is comfortable. My wife and I could spend 3 months on it
and be just fine. Down the road, we hope to do that.

Our first venture into LaConner was hair-raising. We were sea
trialing it with the owner at the helm. Going past the transient
dock, he lost the port engine (later repaired....distributor cap).
Compounding this was the tide, current, and a 10 knot wind. He
managed to get the boat sideways and we just drifted into the dock,
hitting the dock just right. Fenders held....no damage....but the
owner lost a year of his life.

LaConner will never be my home port. Love the town....especially the
LaConner Brewing Co. restaurant. Best pizza and beer I've ever had!

-Greg

2nd thoughts
 

If we all just bailed when reality hit then there would never be any
progress. I purchased a 53' Carver and for the 1st 18-months I was terrified
whenever it got within 20' of anything immovable. However, this all goes
away once one has developed some confidence (notice I didn't say skills).
Give yourself permission to fail and just practice. I think my total
education expense was less than $500; $100 for some vanish for somebody else
and $250+ to get some scratches removed.

Dave

You shouldn't
"dene" wrote in message
ups.com...
Quick background. We sold our 25 foot express cruiser and bought a 22
foot alaskan bulkhead trailerable cruiser (Campion) and an '82 30 foot
Carver AC. The Campion is for the Columbia River wherea the Carver is
for cruising Puget Sound in the offseason. Summers, it is chartered.
Last weekend, most of the work was finalized on the Carver and we
delivered, with the help of a charter captain, from LaConner to
Anacortes yesterday. The boat will be in charter for the summer (4
weeks are already booked).

We've really enjoyed extended stays on the Carver but....getting the
boat underway and moored that has me very concerned. We faced wind and
a strong tide current which took us an hour just to get away from the
dock. We had to move another boat too in the process. Arrival was a
similar challenge. The captain had to do it....no way I could. This
raised our eyebrows on the feasability and expenses of using the boat
in the off season. On open water, she handles like a dream. In close
quarters, she's a toad....and I question if the white knuckles
experiences we'll have docking it is worth the reward, not to mention
the cost of moorage and gas for twin crusaders.

Consequently, we're thinking about selling it after charter season. In
it's place, buy a creme puff RoadTrek Class B RV (campervan) for
around 25k and haul the all season 22 footer Campion wherever we
please. Under tow, the van get 12-15 mpg. The boat gets 4 mpg. Heck of
a lot cheaper than moorage and gas for a 30 footer. Also, we have the
versatility of sleeping in the RV or the boat, cruising land or sea or
both.

Our other thought is chartering the Carver year after year and while
using it ourselves a few times each year. Offseason, put it on the
hard. If the income vs. expenses is on the plus side each year, then
essentially somebody else is buying our boat while I enjoy some nice
tax benefits.

Thoughts??

-Greg
Kalama, Washington

2nd thoughts
 

On Apr 20, 9:30 pm, "Dave Isherwood" wrote:
If we all just bailed when reality hit then there would never be any
progress. I purchased a 53' Carver and for the 1st 18-months I was terrified
whenever it got within 20' of anything immovable. However, this all goes
away once one has developed some confidence (notice I didn't say skills).
Give yourself permission to fail and just practice. I think my total
education expense was less than $500; $100 for some vanish for somebody else
and $250+ to get some scratches removed.

Dave

You shouldn't"dene" wrote in message

ups.com...

Quick background. We sold our 25 foot express cruiser and bought a 22
foot alaskan bulkhead trailerable cruiser (Campion) and an '82 30 foot
Carver AC. The Campion is for the Columbia River wherea the Carver is
for cruising Puget Sound in the offseason. Summers, it is chartered.
Last weekend, most of the work was finalized on the Carver and we
delivered, with the help of a charter captain, from LaConner to
Anacortes yesterday. The boat will be in charter for the summer (4
weeks are already booked).

We've really enjoyed extended stays on the Carver but....getting the
boat underway and moored that has me very concerned. We faced wind and
a strong tide current which took us an hour just to get away from the
dock. We had to move another boat too in the process. Arrival was a
similar challenge. The captain had to do it....no way I could. This
raised our eyebrows on the feasability and expenses of using the boat
in the off season. On open water, she handles like a dream. In close
quarters, she's a toad....and I question if the white knuckles
experiences we'll have docking it is worth the reward, not to mention
the cost of moorage and gas for twin crusaders.

Consequently, we're thinking about selling it after charter season. In
it's place, buy a creme puff RoadTrek Class B RV (campervan) for
around 25k and haul the all season 22 footer Campion wherever we
please. Under tow, the van get 12-15 mpg. The boat gets 4 mpg. Heck of
a lot cheaper than moorage and gas for a 30 footer. Also, we have the
versatility of sleeping in the RV or the boat, cruising land or sea or
both.

Our other thought is chartering the Carver year after year and while
using it ourselves a few times each year. Offseason, put it on the
hard. If the income vs. expenses is on the plus side each year, then
essentially somebody else is buying our boat while I enjoy some nice
tax benefits.

Thoughts??

-Greg
Kalama, Washington


53 footer. That's an aircraft carrier. ;

Curious....what size of boat did you move up from? I do agree...it's
a matter of trial, error, and more error. I intend to give it some
more practice runs before I bail.

-Greg