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Soundproofing/Waterproofing a Honda Genny

RCE wrote:

Greg,

Perhaps I was too hasty in assuming you were trying to sell your invention
on various newsgroups.
If so, I offer my apology. However, I still think you are promoting a
potentially dangerous setup and ignoring some of the safety comments that
you have solicited.

Dick, I accept your apology if you accept mine. I was too hasty in my
reaction to you. I truly appreciate your advice!

One mistake I've made is even mentioning the potential of peddling this
design. It's truly the furthest thing from my mind. My main concern
is having a set-up that I can use safely. If all the ducks are in a
row (liability, etc), then I may just sell a downloadable, how-to
manual and/or offer to build it for those who, like me, are
mechanically challenged.

In another post you appear to be testing this thing on a boat, underway
(operating in a no-wake zone) with the generator providing power to a space
heater. You reported the temperature in the box was 151 degrees. I did a
cursory review of the owner's manual for my Honda EU2000 and could not
readily find an operating temperature spec, however 151 degrees is
intuitively too high. These little generators are designed for forced air
cooling at a normal range of ambient temperatures. 151 degrees is not
normal. I am sure the operating temperature specs are available from Honda,
but I don't know what they are nor apparently do you.

I'm not certain it was 151degrees. I put a thermometer in there but in
was against the cooler wall near the power outlet. I intend to test it
further today. Here is what I do know....after 20 mins., parts of the
cooler wall clearly absorbed the heat and were almost too hot to touch,
although there was no melting. The gen itself was warm but not hot. I
kept the lid open to a 30 degree angle and it certainly helped with
ventilation. There was no appreciable noise difference with the lid
open like this, in that sound was diverted to the rear of the boat.

Next, you are promoting it's use on a boat. The biggest danger on a boat
underway, large or small, is fire. Ever see a fiberglass boat burn? It's
not a pretty sight. You've got a hot generator, full of gas, a catalytic
type exhaust sitting in an inadequately vented and cooled plastic box. The
generator is producing electricity, has electronic components (inverter) and
you think this is safe? The EU2000 has a vented gas cap that must be open to
run. You close it when moving it around to prevent gas spillage. So, you
have a vented cap on the gas supply of a overheated generator ... in an
enclosed plastic box ... on a moving boat. Are you nuts?

My comments are intended to convince the unknowing that, IMHO, this is a
dangerous setup, especially for use on a boat, and careful thought should
be given before attempting to duplicate your idea.

I agree to a certain extent. What I'm doing should not be duplicated
yet. Before I endorse it, I will run my findings to Honda.

Prior to experiment, I ran the genny while underway, strapped to the
swim platform. Other's have done the same without any problems.

Did you get a chance to read the Bayliner boater's experience with a
plastic storage box? I may end up abandoning the cooler and acquire a
more suitable box.

-Greg

Soundproofing/Waterproofing a Honda Genny

Geoff Schultz wrote:
"dene" wrote in
ups.com:

Thanks again for all the advice!

Here's an update so far....

[clip]
2. I ran the genny on medium load for 20 mins. while it powered a
ceramic heater for the cockpit.
We were in a now wake zone which enabled me to hear it. There was no
problem. The lid was partially opened. The temperature inside the
cooler was 151 degrees. Near the exhaust, the side of the cooler was
hot. I could put my hand on it for just two seconds. However, no
sign of melting. Is this too hot of an enviroment?
[clip]

Do you really think that this unit was designed to run in 151 degrees? If
that's the air temp, how hot do you think that the engine components are
getting? I would also worry about the oil breaking down. I think that
you're just lucky that the motor hasn't seized as of yet.

-- Geoff

I'm not sure it was truly 151 degrees in that the thermometer was on
the cooler wall, which absorbs heat. I intend to test it further today
while moored at a transient dock. I'll report later, hopefully with
pictures.

-Greg

Soundproofing/Waterproofing a Honda Genny

dene wrote:
Again....don't hesitate to be critical and/or creative.

Seems like guilding the lily to me; the little Hondas are already
pretty quiet. On my boat, the deck vibration when the generator is
running is more of an irritation than the generator's sounds. Reduced
by putting the generator on a 1" thick piece of engine room sound
insulation. Or, put the thing on the end of the dock, almost
unnoticeable below decks.

Anyway, I'm highly critical. The instruction booklet is quite clear,
don't mess with the exhaust outlet, don't run in confined spaces.
Reasons? Exhaust back pressure and overheating. Your setup is
recycling a huge amount of cooling air through the generator and
roasting it good.

At the least, your "genny in an icebox" will have a short service life,
worst case a spectacular meltdown.

Soundproofing/Waterproofing a Honda Genny

I think that is a nice idea for a jury rig, sufficient cooling, etc. to
be left to sort out by the individual user, depending on load and
whatnot.
I would probably not pay money for it on ebay, because it is not really
a product, and I would definitely not sell it, because of liability
issues.

dene wrote:
A couple of months ago, somebody in a boating forum described using a
modified cooler to house a honda 2000 genny. I passed on those posts to
my talented stepson and today we came up with a proto-type, that he may
eventually market for roughly $150 on E-bay. This is the first one with
more improvements envisioned before it goes to market. This cooler is a
Coleman 5 day, 100 qt. we got on sale at Walmart for $35. Only problem
with it is that it's not high enough, forcing us to cut a hole into the
top of the door.

Here are some pictures with comments in the captions. Please share all
opinions.

http://tinyurl.com/2kqwjd

Outlay was as follows....

$35 cooler
$10 ventilation pipe/exhaust
$30 padded cooler cover

Plus an hour or two of labor.

Results....this modified cooler cut down the sound about a third. Most
of the remaining noise comes from the exhaust. Also pertinant, the
gen-box looks good on the back of my upper swim platform and it
provides waterproofing for the genny, which will allow me to use it in
the rain. (We get a little here).

Again....don't hesitate to be critical and/or creative.

Thanks!

-Greg Schoenberg
"She Said Yes"
2002 Regal 2465
Kalama, Washington

Soundproofing/Waterproofing a Honda Genny

A fellow on one of the caravan forums described a similar idea, though he
built the enclosure from timber. One idea that may be useful to you is
that he used a 12v computer fan to help keep the genny cool while running

Cheers

David

dene wrote:

A couple of months ago, somebody in a boating forum described using a
modified cooler to house a honda 2000 genny. I passed on those posts to
my talented stepson and today we came up with a proto-type, that he may
eventually market for roughly $150 on E-bay. This is the first one with
more improvements envisioned before it goes to market. This cooler is a
Coleman 5 day, 100 qt. we got on sale at Walmart for $35. Only problem
with it is that it's not high enough, forcing us to cut a hole into the
top of the door.

Here are some pictures with comments in the captions. Please share all
opinions.

http://tinyurl.com/2kqwjd

Outlay was as follows....

$35 cooler
$10 ventilation pipe/exhaust
$30 padded cooler cover

Plus an hour or two of labor.

Results....this modified cooler cut down the sound about a third. Most
of the remaining noise comes from the exhaust. Also pertinant, the
gen-box looks good on the back of my upper swim platform and it
provides waterproofing for the genny, which will allow me to use it in
the rain. (We get a little here).

Again....don't hesitate to be critical and/or creative.

Thanks!

-Greg Schoenberg
"She Said Yes"
2002 Regal 2465
Kalama, Washington

Soundproofing/Waterproofing a Honda Genny

"Bill Kearney" wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote in
t:

Perhaps you haven't looked at a lot of smaller generators, but they're
typically housed in fiberglass enclosures.

On boats or land/RV applications?

Do a google search of "marine generator fiberglass enclosure" and you'll
find many big name manufactures who utilize fiberglass enclosures in their
smaller generators.

-- Geoff

Soundproofing/Waterproofing a Honda Genny

Geoff Schultz wrote:
"Bill Kearney" wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote in
t:

Perhaps you haven't looked at a lot of smaller generators, but they're
typically housed in fiberglass enclosures.

On boats or land/RV applications?

Do a google search of "marine generator fiberglass enclosure" and you'll
find many big name manufactures who utilize fiberglass enclosures in their
smaller generators.

-- Geoff

$1300 for one....yowsa!

-Greg

Latest re. Prototype

Spent the part of the day on the transient dock, experimenting with
this prototype. Bad news is that after 20 mins. of running on a medium
load, two of the four inner cooler walls were unacceptably hot....hot
like a Texas sidewalk in July. The following link reveals some
pictures along with captions which further explain the problem.

http://tinyurl.com/ynjwkh

Good news is....

1. Neither the boat, nor the genny, blew up
2. The sound and vibration was dramatically reduced. When sitting in
the cabin, we could barely hear the gen.
3. The bosum mate likes the look of it on the swim platform.

So....I intend to ventilate further with larger holes on all four side
and also connect a DC fan to the gen., which will run the entire time
the gen runs. I hope to order it tomorrow.

Experimentation continues.....only this time it will be in a parking
lot with the eco-throttle off. Stay tuned.

If this doesn't work, then I may purchase the Rubbermaid Action Packer
box that another boater successfully used and modify it. He simply has
a large hole on each side....one for the cords and one for the exhaust.
He claims no problems. Is it possible/likely that this heavy duty
plastic box does a better job of difusing heat than a cooler would?

-Greg
Portland, Oregon

Soundproofing/Waterproofing a Honda Genny

I would guess that use in the tropics would require a different type of
generator -- maybe one that is water cooled? Actually, I would tend to
doubt if most air-cooled generators are even suitable for use in places
like Las Vegas or Arizona for instance in the summer.

quietguy wrote:
That might be OK in the cooler parts of the world, but a bit dodgy perhaps in the
tropics - ie as that is where you would use the genny for extended periods to run
air conditioning

David

wrote:

.... I believe generator companies typically
rate their generators for operation at an ambient temperature up to
100F. That would mean you would have to heat your garage, for example,
up to 100F and then put the generator in the enclosure inside the
garage to run the heat tests.

Latest re. Prototype

As I said before, it's the temp of the inverter board, alternator, and
cylinder head that's critical. Measuring the temp of the air in the
enclosure or radiant IR heating of the enclosure walls is meaningless
for determining this.
It's like when your automatic trans starts slipping. The clutches are
red hot inside, but you have no sense of this from the drivers seat.
With the temp of the enclosure as you describe, the internals of the gen
are probably near meltdown. At the least the heat stress will damage the
electronics and cause early failure, and the hot intake air will fry the
engine. At worst, it will boil the fuel into a nice 14.7:1 ratio and
blow your boat out of the water.
JR

dene wrote:

Spent the part of the day on the transient dock, experimenting with
this prototype. Bad news is that after 20 mins. of running on a medium
load, two of the four inner cooler walls were unacceptably hot....hot
like a Texas sidewalk in July. The following link reveals some
pictures along with captions which further explain the problem.

http://tinyurl.com/ynjwkh

Good news is....

1. Neither the boat, nor the genny, blew up
2. The sound and vibration was dramatically reduced. When sitting in
the cabin, we could barely hear the gen.
3. The bosum mate likes the look of it on the swim platform.

So....I intend to ventilate further with larger holes on all four side
and also connect a DC fan to the gen., which will run the entire time
the gen runs. I hope to order it tomorrow.

Experimentation continues.....only this time it will be in a parking
lot with the eco-throttle off. Stay tuned.

If this doesn't work, then I may purchase the Rubbermaid Action Packer
box that another boater successfully used and modify it. He simply has
a large hole on each side....one for the cords and one for the exhaust.
He claims no problems. Is it possible/likely that this heavy duty
plastic box does a better job of difusing heat than a cooler would?

-Greg
Portland, Oregon

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

Latest re. Prototype

On 22 Jan 2007 00:30:52 -0800, "dene" wrote:

Is it possible/likely that this heavy duty
plastic box does a better job of difusing heat than a cooler would?

-Greg
Portland, Oregon

So just how is it that a guy from Portland, Oregon has a boat
documented in Punta Gorda, FL ?

Latest re. Prototype

Wayne.B wrote:
On 22 Jan 2007 00:30:52 -0800, "dene" wrote:

Is it possible/likely that this heavy duty
plastic box does a better job of difusing heat than a cooler would?

-Greg
Portland, Oregon

So just how is it that a guy from Portland, Oregon has a boat
documented in Punta Gorda, FL ?

Boat was purchased and transported from Florida, 3 months ago. Haven't
taken the decals off yet.

-Greg