need some mechanics input on a nightmareboat!
 

kyle wrote:
hi all,

i am at my wits end over this 2003 bayliner 5.0L merc.

here is the symptom:

give it some warmpup throttle action, turn key on, she cranks
beautifully. no smoke. no roughness.

10-20 seconds later, she instantly cuts off.

so.. youre thinking.. it must be a fuel thing, right?

i started small: i replaced the fuel filter. same result.

a little larger: i replaced the fuel pump (it's an electronic fuel
pump, we tested with it unhooked from carb and it was a weak stream..
after replacement she was peein' strong). same result.

a little larger: i replaced the ignition coil. same result.

a little larger: i rebuilt the carb. at this point, she showed
promise. we took her out on the lake for about an hour and she ran
beautifully!! i let her sit for a week .. then bam, same damn result
as before!! 10-20 second purr then cut off.

so i said damn it, let's look at the carb again. no fuel is getting
down in the manifold after the initial warmup throttle action!! so
figured something is messed up with carb.. went down and bought a fresh
rebuilt carb.. last night.. put it on.. same result! and i still
don't see fuel dropping into the 2 barrels after crankup. it does
make a noise like it's spraying air or something at least. but it was
somewhat dark when i was observing it this time...

the guy i bought the boat from had done a lot of wiring himself (mp3
player, gps..) .. could it be some electrical shorting after 10-20
seconds or would it only be a startup thing?

my next order of business is going at it from the distributor system.
maybe the distributor chip is bad? distributor cap? what else could it
be!! man this is driving me nuts. that engine is practically new at
this point!!

also, what do you think about some crap in the fuel? i filled the damn
tank up from about 3 gallons.. but what if there is dirt or water or
something in the tank and it keeps suckin' up dirt? should i drain the
40 gallon tank.. and clean the tank somehow (never done that.. whats
the best way to do it?) give that a shot? the one thing that leads me
to believe it isnt the tank is that when i warmup throttle action it
pushes fuel down the manifold so the fuel filter seems to be fine?
maybe just not fine all the time?

any suggestions would be great. i've had it in and out of the shop and
they had it fixed at one point but then 1 week later it died again
(without me doing anything in between then).

i'm tempted to sell the boat, get something else, but i am in it $12K
and who is going to buy an '03 bayliner 21.5ft that doesnt run for
anywhere near that?? best bet is to get it running, then sell it, i
guess, or maybe keep it since ive grown attached :

thank you so much for your time reading this,


kyle

Get a small gas tank (5 gallon) and run a line from it to the carb and
see if that helps. If so, then look for plugged fuel line, or pick up
in the tank.

need some mechanics input on a nightmareboat!
 

I'm thinking about taking it to a different mechanic at this point..
although I might try to look at the anti-siphoning valve, and then also
unhook the fuel hose from the fuel tank and put it in like a 5 gallon
tank of gas and see if that works.. i think that would tell me a lot,
whether or not it is something BEFORE the fuel filter.. the mechanic
never really even did any testing on what came before the fuel filter..

I think you are on the right track now.
Jim

need some mechanics input on a nightmareboat!
 

Jim,

I still have an unanswered question lingering: IF the anti-siphoning
valve is in question, would any gas be coming out at all from the fuel
tank? Or could the valve be a build up type thing where enough pressure
occurs and the valve kicks on(shuts the fuel supply off)?


Jim wrote:

I'm thinking about taking it to a different mechanic at this point..
although I might try to look at the anti-siphoning valve, and then also
unhook the fuel hose from the fuel tank and put it in like a 5 gallon
tank of gas and see if that works.. i think that would tell me a lot,
whether or not it is something BEFORE the fuel filter.. the mechanic
never really even did any testing on what came before the fuel filter..

I think you are on the right track now.
Jim

need some mechanics input on a nightmareboat!
 

"kyle" wrote in message
oups.com...
so when i give it a few pumps of throttle before starting engine, gas
drops into the barrels from the carb. do you still think it could be
something related to the gas tank screen being plugged?

I don't mind draining gas tank.. but here is my dilemma: I have no
idea how to remove the gas tank from this I/O. The gas tank is
underneath the fiberglassed floor! How do people normally remove the
tank in this case.. or is there a way I can just clean the tank with it
in place?

fuel pump has been replaced and works like a dream. that's the first
thing the mechanic replaced after the fuel filter.


Kyle

Calif Bill wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:29:10 -0600, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:

thank you so much for your time reading this,

If it were a car I would start wondering about fuel pump. Or vent on
the
gas tank. If the bowl on the carb is dry when it dies then no gas
getting to motor. problem is fuel pump, gas line, tank etc.

I agree based on the symptoms.

The fuel pump is easy enough to check as is the gas line although if
it's getting enough gas to start it would seem that might not be it.
I'd try the vent first, then work my way back to the fuel pump.

I would look at the throttle bore when it stops and see if you get any
squirts of fuel from the throttle pump. If not, gas problem. Since you
changed the pump and hopefully the filter, I would look more at pulling
the
tank pickup and seeing of the screen is plugged.


Check for the squirts when the engine stops. If there are none, or just the
tiniest bit, then open the fuel fill cap and see if the engine now gets gas.
You may be able to hear a difference in sound. The tank vent will be an
external, normally round about 1" fitting high up on the outside of the boat
probably near the fuel fill. The cap screws off and there will be a screen
inside. Check for insects.

need some mechanics input on a nightmareboat!
 

"kyle" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jim,

I still have an unanswered question lingering: IF the anti-siphoning
valve is in question, would any gas be coming out at all from the fuel
tank? Or could the valve be a build up type thing where enough pressure
occurs and the valve kicks on(shuts the fuel supply off)?


Jim wrote:

I'm thinking about taking it to a different mechanic at this point..
although I might try to look at the anti-siphoning valve, and then also
unhook the fuel hose from the fuel tank and put it in like a 5 gallon
tank of gas and see if that works.. i think that would tell me a lot,
whether or not it is something BEFORE the fuel filter.. the mechanic
never really even did any testing on what came before the fuel filter..

I think you are on the right track now.
Jim

It's just a spring and ball check valve. Junk getting sucked up from the
tank could be clogging the valve then falling back into the tank when the
fuel pump stops. Fuel lines have been known to collapse. Tank vents
sometimes get clogged. Pickup tubes can develop pinhole leaks. You've
already replaced the expensive stuff. The rest is relatively cheap to swap
out. Also you should look into what turns the fuel pump on and off.
Jim

need some mechanics input on a nightmareboat!
 

kyle wrote:
fuel pump has been replaced .. it gushes fuel out the line when removed
from the carb. intake and i'm turning the key over...

how could it be a gas vent thing? where is the vent, anyways.. is it
between the gas tank and the fuel filter?

don't know if i mentioned but it is an I/O.

Del Cecchi wrote:

"kyle" wrote in message
groups.com...

hi all,

i am at my wits end over this 2003 bayliner 5.0L merc.

here is the symptom:

give it some warmpup throttle action, turn key on, she cranks
beautifully. no smoke. no roughness.

10-20 seconds later, she instantly cuts off.

so.. youre thinking.. it must be a fuel thing, right?

i started small: i replaced the fuel filter. same result.

a little larger: i replaced the fuel pump (it's an electronic fuel
pump, we tested with it unhooked from carb and it was a weak stream..
after replacement she was peein' strong). same result.

a little larger: i replaced the ignition coil. same result.

a little larger: i rebuilt the carb. at this point, she showed
promise. we took her out on the lake for about an hour and she ran
beautifully!! i let her sit for a week .. then bam, same damn result
as before!! 10-20 second purr then cut off.

so i said damn it, let's look at the carb again. no fuel is getting
down in the manifold after the initial warmup throttle action!! so
figured something is messed up with carb.. went down and bought a fresh
rebuilt carb.. last night.. put it on.. same result! and i still
don't see fuel dropping into the 2 barrels after crankup. it does
make a noise like it's spraying air or something at least. but it was
somewhat dark when i was observing it this time...

the guy i bought the boat from had done a lot of wiring himself (mp3
player, gps..) .. could it be some electrical shorting after 10-20
seconds or would it only be a startup thing?

my next order of business is going at it from the distributor system.
maybe the distributor chip is bad? distributor cap? what else could it
be!! man this is driving me nuts. that engine is practically new at
this point!!

also, what do you think about some crap in the fuel? i filled the damn
tank up from about 3 gallons.. but what if there is dirt or water or
something in the tank and it keeps suckin' up dirt? should i drain the
40 gallon tank.. and clean the tank somehow (never done that.. whats
the best way to do it?) give that a shot? the one thing that leads me
to believe it isnt the tank is that when i warmup throttle action it
pushes fuel down the manifold so the fuel filter seems to be fine?
maybe just not fine all the time?

any suggestions would be great. i've had it in and out of the shop and
they had it fixed at one point but then 1 week later it died again
(without me doing anything in between then).

i'm tempted to sell the boat, get something else, but i am in it $12K
and who is going to buy an '03 bayliner 21.5ft that doesnt run for
anywhere near that?? best bet is to get it running, then sell it, i
guess, or maybe keep it since ive grown attached :

thank you so much for your time reading this,



Hook a timing light up to one of the plug wires, I like the inductive
pickup type. Fire it up and run it while holding down the trigger on the
light until the engine dies. Does the timing light stop firing the
moment the trouble appears or does it keep going until the engine stops
turning? That will help narrow down whether the ignition or fuel is the
problem.

need some mechanics input on a nightmareboat!
 

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:9o75h.57$tb2.36@trnddc08...
kyle wrote:
fuel pump has been replaced .. it gushes fuel out the line when removed
from the carb. intake and i'm turning the key over...

how could it be a gas vent thing? where is the vent, anyways.. is it
between the gas tank and the fuel filter?

don't know if i mentioned but it is an I/O.

Del Cecchi wrote:

"kyle" wrote in message
egroups.com...

hi all,

i am at my wits end over this 2003 bayliner 5.0L merc.

here is the symptom:

give it some warmpup throttle action, turn key on, she cranks
beautifully. no smoke. no roughness.

10-20 seconds later, she instantly cuts off.

so.. youre thinking.. it must be a fuel thing, right?

i started small: i replaced the fuel filter. same result.

a little larger: i replaced the fuel pump (it's an electronic fuel
pump, we tested with it unhooked from carb and it was a weak stream..
after replacement she was peein' strong). same result.

a little larger: i replaced the ignition coil. same result.

a little larger: i rebuilt the carb. at this point, she showed
promise. we took her out on the lake for about an hour and she ran
beautifully!! i let her sit for a week .. then bam, same damn result
as before!! 10-20 second purr then cut off.

so i said damn it, let's look at the carb again. no fuel is getting
down in the manifold after the initial warmup throttle action!! so
figured something is messed up with carb.. went down and bought a fresh
rebuilt carb.. last night.. put it on.. same result! and i still
don't see fuel dropping into the 2 barrels after crankup. it does
make a noise like it's spraying air or something at least. but it was
somewhat dark when i was observing it this time...

the guy i bought the boat from had done a lot of wiring himself (mp3
player, gps..) .. could it be some electrical shorting after 10-20
seconds or would it only be a startup thing?

my next order of business is going at it from the distributor system.
maybe the distributor chip is bad? distributor cap? what else could it
be!! man this is driving me nuts. that engine is practically new at
this point!!

also, what do you think about some crap in the fuel? i filled the damn
tank up from about 3 gallons.. but what if there is dirt or water or
something in the tank and it keeps suckin' up dirt? should i drain the
40 gallon tank.. and clean the tank somehow (never done that.. whats
the best way to do it?) give that a shot? the one thing that leads me
to believe it isnt the tank is that when i warmup throttle action it
pushes fuel down the manifold so the fuel filter seems to be fine?
maybe just not fine all the time?

any suggestions would be great. i've had it in and out of the shop and
they had it fixed at one point but then 1 week later it died again
(without me doing anything in between then).

i'm tempted to sell the boat, get something else, but i am in it $12K
and who is going to buy an '03 bayliner 21.5ft that doesnt run for
anywhere near that?? best bet is to get it running, then sell it, i
guess, or maybe keep it since ive grown attached :

thank you so much for your time reading this,



Hook a timing light up to one of the plug wires, I like the inductive
pickup type. Fire it up and run it while holding down the trigger on the
light until the engine dies. Does the timing light stop firing the moment
the trouble appears or does it keep going until the engine stops turning?
That will help narrow down whether the ignition or fuel is the problem.


This has most likely been mentioned before, but just in case it hasn't ....
The electric fuel pumps are wired (or supposed to be) through an oil
pressure switch. Once the engine starts, the fuel pump will only run if
there is oil pressure activating the switch. (the purpose is to ensure the
fuel pump doesn't keep pumping fuel into the carb if the engine dies or is
off. I believe that when you turn the key to the "start" position, the oil
pressure switch is bypassed to allow the pump to run and the engine to start
with no oil pressure.

From the symptoms you described above, it may be that the oil pressure
switch is bad or the wiring to and from it is bad.

Eisboch

need some mechanics input on a nightmareboat!
 

This has most likely been mentioned before, but just in case it hasn't ....
The electric fuel pumps are wired (or supposed to be) through an oil
pressure switch. Once the engine starts, the fuel pump will only run if
there is oil pressure activating the switch. (the purpose is to ensure the
fuel pump doesn't keep pumping fuel into the carb if the engine dies or is
off. I believe that when you turn the key to the "start" position, the oil
pressure switch is bypassed to allow the pump to run and the engine to start
with no oil pressure.

From the symptoms you described above, it may be that the oil pressure
switch is bad or the wiring to and from it is bad.

Eisboch

I find it interesting that no one, except me, seems to have
achnowledged your point. Now that I have an electric fuel pump, that's
the 1st thing I'd check. Also, with my new ... geez I like my new boat
.... Volvo Penta, an alternator not working will cause the engine to cut
out. So many relays to jumper just to get back to port :-)

need some mechanics input on a nightmareboat!
 

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 03:36:48 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:29:10 -0600, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:

thank you so much for your time reading this,

If it were a car I would start wondering about fuel pump. Or vent on the
gas tank. If the bowl on the carb is dry when it dies then no gas
getting to motor. problem is fuel pump, gas line, tank etc.

I agree based on the symptoms.

The fuel pump is easy enough to check as is the gas line although if
it's getting enough gas to start it would seem that might not be it.
I'd try the vent first, then work my way back to the fuel pump.

How about oil pressure? Most electric fuel pumps shut off when the
oil pressure drops below a certain setting. Maybe the pressure sensor
is bad.
Also maybe a different circuit for starting/warmup than for running.
Maybe the running circuit is faulty.
Maybe the fuel pickup in the tank is plugged.
Mark E. Williams

need some mechanics input on a nightmareboat!
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:9o75h.57$tb2.36@trnddc08...
kyle wrote:
fuel pump has been replaced .. it gushes fuel out the line when removed
from the carb. intake and i'm turning the key over...

how could it be a gas vent thing? where is the vent, anyways.. is it
between the gas tank and the fuel filter?

don't know if i mentioned but it is an I/O.

Del Cecchi wrote:

"kyle" wrote in message
legroups.com...

hi all,

i am at my wits end over this 2003 bayliner 5.0L merc.

here is the symptom:

give it some warmpup throttle action, turn key on, she cranks
beautifully. no smoke. no roughness.

10-20 seconds later, she instantly cuts off.

so.. youre thinking.. it must be a fuel thing, right?

i started small: i replaced the fuel filter. same result.

a little larger: i replaced the fuel pump (it's an electronic fuel
pump, we tested with it unhooked from carb and it was a weak stream..
after replacement she was peein' strong). same result.

a little larger: i replaced the ignition coil. same result.

a little larger: i rebuilt the carb. at this point, she showed
promise. we took her out on the lake for about an hour and she ran
beautifully!! i let her sit for a week .. then bam, same damn result
as before!! 10-20 second purr then cut off.

so i said damn it, let's look at the carb again. no fuel is getting
down in the manifold after the initial warmup throttle action!! so
figured something is messed up with carb.. went down and bought a fresh
rebuilt carb.. last night.. put it on.. same result! and i still
don't see fuel dropping into the 2 barrels after crankup. it does
make a noise like it's spraying air or something at least. but it was
somewhat dark when i was observing it this time...

the guy i bought the boat from had done a lot of wiring himself (mp3
player, gps..) .. could it be some electrical shorting after 10-20
seconds or would it only be a startup thing?

my next order of business is going at it from the distributor system.
maybe the distributor chip is bad? distributor cap? what else could it
be!! man this is driving me nuts. that engine is practically new at
this point!!

also, what do you think about some crap in the fuel? i filled the damn
tank up from about 3 gallons.. but what if there is dirt or water or
something in the tank and it keeps suckin' up dirt? should i drain the
40 gallon tank.. and clean the tank somehow (never done that.. whats
the best way to do it?) give that a shot? the one thing that leads me
to believe it isnt the tank is that when i warmup throttle action it
pushes fuel down the manifold so the fuel filter seems to be fine?
maybe just not fine all the time?

any suggestions would be great. i've had it in and out of the shop and
they had it fixed at one point but then 1 week later it died again
(without me doing anything in between then).

i'm tempted to sell the boat, get something else, but i am in it $12K
and who is going to buy an '03 bayliner 21.5ft that doesnt run for
anywhere near that?? best bet is to get it running, then sell it, i
guess, or maybe keep it since ive grown attached :

thank you so much for your time reading this,



Hook a timing light up to one of the plug wires, I like the inductive
pickup type. Fire it up and run it while holding down the trigger on the
light until the engine dies. Does the timing light stop firing the moment
the trouble appears or does it keep going until the engine stops turning?
That will help narrow down whether the ignition or fuel is the problem.


This has most likely been mentioned before, but just in case it hasn't
....
The electric fuel pumps are wired (or supposed to be) through an oil
pressure switch. Once the engine starts, the fuel pump will only run if
there is oil pressure activating the switch. (the purpose is to ensure
the fuel pump doesn't keep pumping fuel into the carb if the engine dies
or is off. I believe that when you turn the key to the "start" position,
the oil pressure switch is bypassed to allow the pump to run and the
engine to start with no oil pressure.

From the symptoms you described above, it may be that the oil pressure
switch is bad or the wiring to and from it is bad.

Eisboch



Not all are through a oil switch. My VW Rabbit had a relay that sensed
points opening and closing. All should have a running sensing circuit.