Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

About a year or two ago folks were posting how good the Vector Battery
chargers were. Any current comments with model #'s???

I have a few AGM boat batteries that are sulfated up and in need of a
charge. They are off the boat and in the gararge but my current charger
won't charge them.

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Rick" wrote in message
...
About a year or two ago folks were posting how good the Vector Battery
chargers were. Any current comments with model #'s???

I have a few AGM boat batteries that are sulfated up and in need of a
charge. They are off the boat and in the gararge but my current charger
won't charge them.




Does your current charger have a pulse desulate mode?
If not, one that does will likely get it charging again.

I've had Vectors, but the one I use now is made by Schumacher which I like
better. Both Vectors that I had quit working after a few uses. At the
beginning of the 3 stage charge cycle the Schumacher senses the amount of
current flow and if not correct automatically switches to a desulfate mode.

Occasionally in the desulfate mode it will run for a while and then shut
down with an error indication because it was not sensing any (or enough)
current flow. I discovered that if I unplugged the charger and started over
it would eventually get through the desulfate mode, cleaning the plates and
into the bulk charge cycle.

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Rick" wrote in
:

I have a few AGM boat batteries that are sulfated up and in need of a
charge. They are off the boat and in the gararge but my current charger
won't charge them.


WRONG....You have a few AGM boat batteries that are sulfated up and in need
of REPLACEMENT, not charging. Charging isn't going to fix them....

Larry
--
Halloween candy left over.....
Is there a downside?

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:37:35 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
About a year or two ago folks were posting how good the Vector Battery
chargers were. Any current comments with model #'s???

I have a few AGM boat batteries that are sulfated up and in need of a
charge. They are off the boat and in the gararge but my current charger
won't charge them.

Does your current charger have a pulse desulate mode?
If not, one that does will likely get it charging again.

I've had Vectors, but the one I use now is made by Schumacher which I like
better. Both Vectors that I had quit working after a few uses. At the
beginning of the 3 stage charge cycle the Schumacher senses the amount of
current flow and if not correct automatically switches to a desulfate
mode.

Occasionally in the desulfate mode it will run for a while and then shut
down with an error indication because it was not sensing any (or enough)
current flow. I discovered that if I unplugged the charger and started
over
it would eventually get through the desulfate mode, cleaning the plates
and
into the bulk charge cycle.

Do you know if AGM batteries suffer from desulfation?

I've never read anything that says yes and I honestly don't know.




I did a little reading up on them because I didn't know either. It appears
that the answer is .... yes.

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Rick" wrote in
:

I have a few AGM boat batteries that are sulfated up and in need of a
charge. They are off the boat and in the gararge but my current charger
won't charge them.


WRONG....You have a few AGM boat batteries that are sulfated up and in
need
of REPLACEMENT, not charging. Charging isn't going to fix them....


According to several sites that I just read .... AGM batteries can indeed be
desulfated if they are not too far gone. Worth a try anyway.

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Rick" wrote in message
...
About a year or two ago folks were posting how good the Vector Battery
chargers were. Any current comments with model #'s???




I forget the Vector model number I used to use, but here's the Schumacher I
am currently using and it seems to work well so far.

I have lots of batteries that need to be charged, particularly in the spring
and this one brought them all back to full charge plus desulfated them. I
have never tried it on an AGM battery, however there *is* an AGM setting on
the charger under battery type.

http://store.schumachermart.com/sc-1200a.html

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Do you know if AGM batteries suffer from desulfation?

I've never read anything that says yes and I honestly don't know.




I did a little reading up on them because I didn't know either. It
appears that the answer is .... yes.

Eisboch




Little more trivial information:

Desulfating batteries is accomplished in a couple of ways. One way is also
called "equalizing" and involves the application of a high charging voltage
(typically 15-15.5v) for a period of time.

The other way is using a high frequency, repetitive pulse to the battery to
blow off the sulfated plates.
AGM batteries require this method ... and not the high charging voltage
method. The charger I have utilizes this type of desulfation for all
battery types.

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Larry" wrote in message
...

WRONG....You have a few AGM boat batteries that are sulfated up and in
need
of REPLACEMENT, not charging. Charging isn't going to fix them....


According to several sites that I just read .... AGM batteries can indeed
be desulfated if they are not too far gone. Worth a try anyway.

Eisboch


Follow up to this: AGM batteries require the high freq pulse method of
desulfation.

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:57:37 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



I did a little reading up on them because I didn't know either. It
appears
that the answer is .... yes.

Learn something new every day.

Thanks.


Further reading suggests a controversial subject. Some say you can, some
say you shouldn't.
If I had AGM's that would not take a charge, I'd try it (the pulse method).
Nothing to lose.

I know it works well on the lead/acid batteries in the cars and tractor.

EIsboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:57:37 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



I did a little reading up on them because I didn't know either. It
appears
that the answer is .... yes.

Learn something new every day.

Thanks.


Further reading suggests a controversial subject. Some say you can, some
say you shouldn't.
If I had AGM's that would not take a charge, I'd try it (the pulse
method). Nothing to lose.

I know it works well on the lead/acid batteries in the cars and tractor.

EIsboch


Oh! Now I remember why I know it works. The Harley has an AGM battery and
although it was fairly new it was completely dead last spring. That's when
I discovered that the Vector had died, so I tried to charge it with a
regular battery charger. It would not charge ... didn't allow any current
flow to speak of at all, even though the charger was putting out 13.8 volts
or more. I went out and purchased the Schumacher and tried it. It tried
to charge, then automatically went into the pulse desulfation mode. (You can
hear it pulse and a light comes on indicating it's in the desulfate mode).
It ran like that for a while, then switched to the bulk charge mode and the
current came right up. I left it overnight and it took a full charge.

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

Rick wrote:
About a year or two ago folks were posting how good the Vector Battery
chargers were. Any current comments with model #'s???

I have a few AGM boat batteries that are sulfated up and in need of a
charge. They are off the boat and in the gararge but my current charger
won't charge them.




Larry, over in rec.boats.cruising seems to have a handle on them.

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:45:32 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


I've been thinking about AGMs for the Ranger, but I'm getting
conflicting information about their worth as a trolling motor battery.
I'm planning on upgrading the 24 volt to a 36 volt trolling motor so
it might make sense to use AGMs.

I'm just not convinced of their worth in that scenario.

I don't have a lot of experience with them, other than the motorcycles and
they seem to work fine. When we were in Florida I had a little 10' plastic
fishing boat with a small (30lb thrust?) Minn Kota trolling motor. (we had
a small, stocked pond behind our house) I bought an AGM battery to use
alternately with a regular lead/acid of about the same rating, so I could be
charging one while the other was in use. Both worked fine and I never
really noticed any difference between them in terms of capacity or length of
service per charge. Obviously, the AGM has an advantage in the fact that it
won't spill.

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:45:32 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


I've been thinking about AGMs for the Ranger, but I'm getting
conflicting information about their worth as a trolling motor battery.
I'm planning on upgrading the 24 volt to a 36 volt trolling motor so
it might make sense to use AGMs.

I'm just not convinced of their worth in that scenario.

I don't have a lot of experience with them, other than the motorcycles and
they seem to work fine. When we were in Florida I had a little 10'
plastic fishing boat with a small (30lb thrust?) Minn Kota trolling motor.
(we had a small, stocked pond behind our house) I bought an AGM battery
to use alternately with a regular lead/acid of about the same rating, so I
could be charging one while the other was in use. Both worked fine and I
never really noticed any difference between them in terms of capacity or
length of service per charge. Obviously, the AGM has an advantage in the
fact that it won't spill.

Eisboch


Thanks for all the information in this thread. Like SW I was also thinking
of an AGM for my starting battery when my current starting battery
(purchased just last year) needed replacement. I am now having second
thoughts on AGM's, especially considering their costs.

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:20:59 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

When we were in Florida I had a little 10' plastic
fishing boat with a small (30lb thrust?) Minn Kota trolling motor. (we had
a small, stocked pond behind our house)

Stocked with alligators I'll bet. :-)

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:20:59 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

When we were in Florida I had a little 10' plastic
fishing boat with a small (30lb thrust?) Minn Kota trolling motor. (we
had
a small, stocked pond behind our house)

Stocked with alligators I'll bet. :-)


As a matter of fact, yes. Not "stocked", but one had moved into the
man-made lake and had been there for several years. Each year he (she?) got
bigger and bigger. We finally called the Florida wildlife people and they
sent a trapper out. It took him several attempts (meaning visits) to get
it, but they finally caught it. It measured over 8 feet. I didn't mind
having it there until we witnessed it attacking and killing a smaller
alligator that tried to move in. That was enough. It was amazing and
eye-opening to watch.

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

Stocked with alligators I'll bet. :-)


Eisboch wrote:
As a matter of fact, yes. Not "stocked", but one had moved into the
man-made lake and had been there for several years. Each year he (she?) got
bigger and bigger. We finally called the Florida wildlife people and they
sent a trapper out. It took him several attempts (meaning visits) to get
it, but they finally caught it. It measured over 8 feet. I didn't mind
having it there until we witnessed it attacking and killing a smaller
alligator that tried to move in. That was enough. It was amazing and
eye-opening to watch.


Those things are dangerous.... many people badly
undersestimate them and very few people realize how
widespread they are. Not that I'm an advocate of killing
them, after all we moved into their space.

And they don't have to be 8' long either. A 3-footer can rip
your arm off, or munch your dog.

I'll never forget the first time I went frog gigging in the
swamps around Jacksonville. As we poled the boat down a
suburban creek toward frog country, there were increasing
numbers of shiny pink dots on the surface of the water. At
first I paid them no attention, but I noticed some were big,
and the numbers increased until we were surrounded by what
seemed like hundreds of them.

"What the heck are those?" I asked.
"Alligators. Their eyes shine pink at night," was the answer.

"Bulls%%%" says I, and grabbed the flashlight.

Well looky there... a hundred (give or take a few)
alligators, staring at us. With the flashlight beam on them,
their eyes didn't look pink. Most of them were a foot or two
long, but it was still disconcerting.

DSK

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Eisboch" wrote in
:

According to several sites that I just read .... AGM batteries can
indeed be desulfated if they are not too far gone. Worth a try
anyway.


Notice the part where the current charger "won't charge them"? The
electronic chargers, like my 40A/100A Vector, won't start the charging on
a dead battery because the computer can't seem to tell what to set the
voltage to unless there is a residual voltage to measure, unloaded. My
neighbor had a dead car battery and, bigshot me, took the big Vector (now
called Black and Decker as they bought the company) over to his house.
It refused to start on the dead battery. I came back and got my trusty,
old Schumaker SCR charger and left it pumping his dead battery for an
hour to get the voltage to come up. Swapping chargers to the
Vectorbeast, again, it started charging normally. Once charged, we left
it on refurb overnight to desulfate the plates with its pulses. The
battery wasn't left uncharged over a few hours. His kids left the
interior lights on all night and noone noticed. It was really dead!

So, I suspect his discharged cells are why it wouldn't start charging.
The computer didn't understand. From that info, he needs a new
battery....BEFORE the damned thing strands him in the middle of nowhere
with no starting power to get home.....ok? If he has any brains, he'll
buy a wetcell we can TEST!

Larry
--
Halloween candy left over.....
Is there a downside?

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Eisboch" wrote in
:

Follow up to this: AGM batteries require the high freq pulse method of
desulfation.



No amount of "pulsing" on the planet is going to change crystalline lead
sulfate back into sulfuric acid and lead to restore a properly sulfated
battery...no matter what the sales hype to sell the overpriced nonsense.
The pulsing chargers are only good to knock off some of the impurity
surface sulfation in the way of the acid-that's-left from touching the
lead. Crystalline lead sulfate is a very stable 'ol salt, even in diluted
acid soaked in gauze.

AGM doesn't change chemistry.....well, except in boat shops.

Larry
--
Halloween candy left over.....
Is there a downside?

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
:

Do you know if AGM batteries suffer from desulfation?

I've never read anything that says yes and I honestly don't know.



Rolling up thin lead plates between sheets of fiberglass gauze soaked in
dilute sulfuric acid has not one iota to do with changing the chemistry
involved with the same ol' lead-lead-acid battery from the 1900's. When
ANY lead-acid battery discharges, lead sulfate IONS (we hope) results and
(we hope) remains in suspension long enough for us to get around to
recharging it before too many of the ions bond into lead sulfate
crystals.

What IS different about AGM and gelcell batteries is the inability of the
lead sulfate crystals that will always form, sooner or later, from
precipitating out of the battery area between the plates falling with
gravity into the provided space for them in the bottom of a wetcell. The
electrolyte in an AGM/Gelcell is trapped and cannot move by convection or
gravity, so the lead sulfate crystals formed stay in the business-area of
the battery between the plates. The inability to make minor specific
gravity adjustments...or even measurements...makes you pretty helpless to
compensate for this BASIC CHEMICAL FACT that gets lost in the brochures
and ad hype.

I must complement the battery manufacturers in convincing consumers that
AGM and gelcells are something extra special, allowing the suppliers to
jack up the prices to amazing levels to maximize profits.

They ARE NOT SPECIAL! They are the same old lead acid batteries in a new
container.

Larry
--
Halloween candy left over.....
Is there a downside?

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in
:

According to several sites that I just read .... AGM batteries can
indeed be desulfated if they are not too far gone. Worth a try
anyway.


Notice the part where the current charger "won't charge them"? The
electronic chargers, like my 40A/100A Vector, won't start the charging on
a dead battery because the computer can't seem to tell what to set the
voltage to unless there is a residual voltage to measure, unloaded. My
neighbor had a dead car battery and, bigshot me, took the big Vector (now
called Black and Decker as they bought the company) over to his house.
It refused to start on the dead battery. I came back and got my trusty,
old Schumaker SCR charger and left it pumping his dead battery for an
hour to get the voltage to come up. Swapping chargers to the
Vectorbeast, again, it started charging normally. Once charged, we left
it on refurb overnight to desulfate the plates with its pulses. The
battery wasn't left uncharged over a few hours. His kids left the
interior lights on all night and noone noticed. It was really dead!

So, I suspect his discharged cells are why it wouldn't start charging.
The computer didn't understand. From that info, he needs a new
battery....BEFORE the damned thing strands him in the middle of nowhere
with no starting power to get home.....ok? If he has any brains, he'll
buy a wetcell we can TEST!


I agree and have had the same experience. It was not clear however if the OP
was using a conventional charger or a smart charger. I've had "dead"
batteries that would not charge from a conventional charger either, simply
because of sulfated plates and the resultant high internal impedance.

Also, I've had more than one experience with the Vector or smart Schumacher
on dead batteries.
You are correct ... they will try for a while, then default to an Error.
However, I discovered that if you just unplugged them and start it again,
eventually they will raise the battery voltage enough to continue through
the normal, 3 stage process.

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in
:

Follow up to this: AGM batteries require the high freq pulse method of
desulfation.



No amount of "pulsing" on the planet is going to change crystalline lead
sulfate back into sulfuric acid and lead to restore a properly sulfated
battery...no matter what the sales hype to sell the overpriced nonsense.
The pulsing chargers are only good to knock off some of the impurity
surface sulfation in the way of the acid-that's-left from touching the
lead. Crystalline lead sulfate is a very stable 'ol salt, even in diluted
acid soaked in gauze.

AGM doesn't change chemistry.....well, except in boat shops.


I am not a chemist. I use what proves to work.

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...


I must complement the battery manufacturers in convincing consumers that
AGM and gelcells are something extra special, allowing the suppliers to
jack up the prices to amazing levels to maximize profits.

They ARE NOT SPECIAL! They are the same old lead acid batteries in a new
container.



That don't leak sulfuric acid if you tip them.

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

On 11/7/2006 8:55 AM, Larry wrote:

I must complement the battery manufacturers in convincing consumers that
AGM and gelcells are something extra special, allowing the suppliers to
jack up the prices to amazing levels to maximize profits.

They ARE NOT SPECIAL! They are the same old lead acid batteries in a new
container.

Larry





Same old stuff:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b287/hank100/b2b.jpg


Same old stuff in a new container:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b287/hank100/a2b.jpg


Sometimes the container makes all the difference in the world.


That was my point also. They don't spill when tipped.

Eisboch

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Eisboch" wrote in
:

That was my point also. They don't spill when tipped.



Turn a golf cart battery over and see what runs out with the caps on
tight....nothing. The caps have a sink trap in them...take a look!

Larry
--
Halloween candy left over.....
Is there a downside?

Vector Battery Chargers + AMG Batteries
 

"Eisboch" wrote in news:xN-
:


That don't leak sulfuric acid if you tip them.


How often do you guys broach or pitchpole the boat, anyways??



Larry
--
Halloween candy left over.....
Is there a downside?