|
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"JohnH" wrote in message
... Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to doubling the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's it. That's based on an incorrect assumption. I would expect a teacher to stumble here. You did. right Proud of that? right You're already dead. Can't afford the funeral? |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:34:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message ... On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:53:48 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: It will be an eye opener for you. Gunner Asch To be perfectly honest, I have different priorities than you do, when it comes to dealing with violence. I'm more focused on why three or four elected officials and one or two shady advisors continue to live in luxury, at known addresses, even though they're responsible for the deaths of 2800 Americans. So in other words..you are a preprogrammed partisan hack with only one agenda and admittedly ignorant as a bag of hammers about the illegal issue, about which you have expounded at some length. Would that be a fair summation? Gunner Asch Because you incessantly resort to insults, it's clear you feel strongly about this immigrant thing. I think you should find a way to skim some of the money just appropriated for your president's big fence. There should be plenty, since it won't work, and probably will never get started. Yes..I feel VERY strongly about the Illegal issue. And more so everyday. They closed the ER AND the hospital down here in the small town I live in..because of the illegals. And now the closest emergency medical care is 42 miles away. People are dying in transit now...because of Illegals. Property taxes are high..California has one of the highest tax rates in the US..because of Illegals. School districts are overcrowded and dumbed down because of illegals. Crime is way up and in many places, its no longer safe to travel, because of illegals. The Fence? Its going up. Why do you say it wont work? Many stretches along Californias southern borders are already working. The anti-illegal movement is growning..the majority of the People are strongly in favor of stopping illegal immigration..to the tune of some 80 or more percent. So its going up. And when that stretch is completed..more will go up. Odd that you should even think about ripping off the government, and by extension..the People. It would appear, that no only are you stupid (statement of fact) but also have serious charector issues. Its only an insult when its not true. Nothing Ive said so far..that you consider an :insult:...has been untrue. Though from your point of view..deep in denial..I can understand it. Child molesters dont like to be labled child molesters anymore than the buffoonish like to be labled buffoons. Must such to be you. So kick back, enjoy the fall colors, get ready for winter and let the heavy issues be settled by people who actually give a ****. Gunner "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 Show me a 50' fence, I'll show you a 50' ladder. Mostly they clip a hole in it, or dig a few inches beneath it. The fence is a billion-dollar boondoggle to Bush's friends. Fining the employers who hire illegals is the only thing that will work. -- *fas-cism* (fash'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism. -- The American Heritage Dictionary "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is...I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn." ------George W. Bush to the Houston Chronicle, April 9th, 1999 |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:59:09 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:34:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message ... On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:53:48 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: It will be an eye opener for you. Gunner Asch To be perfectly honest, I have different priorities than you do, when it comes to dealing with violence. I'm more focused on why three or four elected officials and one or two shady advisors continue to live in luxury, at known addresses, even though they're responsible for the deaths of 2800 Americans. So in other words..you are a preprogrammed partisan hack with only one agenda and admittedly ignorant as a bag of hammers about the illegal issue, about which you have expounded at some length. Would that be a fair summation? Gunner Asch Because you incessantly resort to insults, it's clear you feel strongly about this immigrant thing. I think you should find a way to skim some of the money just appropriated for your president's big fence. There should be plenty, since it won't work, and probably will never get started. Yes..I feel VERY strongly about the Illegal issue. And more so everyday. They closed the ER AND the hospital down here in the small town I live in..because of the illegals. And now the closest emergency medical care is 42 miles away. People are dying in transit now...because of Illegals. Property taxes are high..California has one of the highest tax rates in the US..because of Illegals. School districts are overcrowded and dumbed down because of illegals. Crime is way up and in many places, its no longer safe to travel, because of illegals. The Fence? Its going up. Why do you say it wont work? Many stretches along Californias southern borders are already working. The anti-illegal movement is growning..the majority of the People are strongly in favor of stopping illegal immigration..to the tune of some 80 or more percent. So its going up. And when that stretch is completed..more will go up. Odd that you should even think about ripping off the government, and by extension..the People. It would appear, that no only are you stupid (statement of fact) but also have serious charector issues. Its only an insult when its not true. Nothing Ive said so far..that you consider an :insult:...has been untrue. Though from your point of view..deep in denial..I can understand it. Child molesters dont like to be labled child molesters anymore than the buffoonish like to be labled buffoons. Must such to be you. So kick back, enjoy the fall colors, get ready for winter and let the heavy issues be settled by people who actually give a ****. Gunner Skimming is suspected to be eating up almost 20% of the so-called reconstruction budget in Iraq. The same will happen with your president's fence project. Since you're one of "the people", you may as well get back some of your hard earned money. So we are using Middle Easterners ..a people whom the term Bakshee is part of their culture, to build the Fence? Hummm..though given the Corruption of unions and the Blue States..perhaps we do have our own quasi middle easterners. Democrats Gunner "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:18:54 -0500, gringo wrote:
Show me a 50' fence, I'll show you a 50' ladder. Mostly they clip a hole in it, or dig a few inches beneath it. The fence is a billion-dollar boondoggle to Bush's friends. Fining the employers who hire illegals is the only thing that will work. Chuckle..you think this is gonna be a simply 6 strand barbed wire fence that is never checked? http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL33659.pdf Note the extensive use of electronics, Preditor Drones and fast reaction forces. The current San Diego Fence has already had a strong effect as the arrests dropped suddenly..as the illegals moved easterly into Aridzona to go around the fence. So the California problem shifted into the next state over. Seems that fencing DOES work. Gunner "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:56:20 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:14:06 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message ... On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:35:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message om... On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:57:14 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message news:gs43k210l98sl4h30jmemjjh4pp8mbb0q2@4ax .com... The authoritative source on crime and arrests is the FBI's "Crime in the United States" (CIUS). http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/ In 2005, there were 14,094,186 arrests in all jurisdictions; 603,000 of those were for violent crime. So, 4.3% of arrests were for violent crime, and about 96% for property crime, stock fraud, etc. GAO reported its study of illegal alien prisoners and the offenses for which they were arrested. Among a sample of illegal alien prisoners, 12% had been arrested for violent crimes. http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html There are 2,079,000 prisoners (fed, state, local), and 270,000 of those are illegal aliens. Conclusions: * Whether there are 8 million illegals, or 9 or 10 million (we don't know) among our 300 million US population, illegals are less than 3.4% of residents. * Yet, they are 13% of prisoners (270K / 2,079K), and 36% of those arrested and incarcerated for violent crimes (4.3% of 2,079K = 89.4K. 12% of 270K = 32.4K. 32.4 / 89.4 = 36%) * 88% of illegal alien criminals are not violent criminals, BUT illegal alien CRIMINALS are three times as likely to commit violent crime as criminals who are NOT illegal aliens (i.e. either natives, naturalized, or arrived here legally): 12% vs. 4.3%. What does that mean in the GENERAL population, not just the criminal underworld? It's BAD. In a representative sample of 10,000 US residents, there would be: 333 illegal aliens, of those 9 are jailed, and of those 1 (1.1) was arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 309 illegal aliens. Among the sample's 9,667 non-aliens, there would be: 60 jailed, and of those 3 (2.6) were arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 3,729 non-aliens. So the illegal alien GENERAL population has a propensity for violent crime 12 times that of the remainder of the US population. (3,729 / 309 = 12.1) Two things: 1) My toaster failed to kill me for the 8 billionth time. Has it made a tactical error? 2) Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are overrepresented in the prisons. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm Interesting stats. What do they mean to you? It means that there are certain segments of our society who are more prone to crime/violence than others, for a number of reasons. And what do they mean to you? Gunner I agree with your last statement. But, those numbers don't indicate anything about illegal immigrants unless more detail is provided. was this your question or not?: "Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are overrepresented in the prisons." Or are you trying to do another goalpost change once that I provided them from irrefutable sources? No. It was the first step on the way to my last question, about illegal immigrants. Now that you've (correctly) pointed out differences between certain groups, do you have any theories as to why these differences exist? Ive pointed them out repeatedly. Are you really this stupid? Again..for the record..its "culture" Now was there anything else you wish to ask before I write you off as terminally stupid? Ignorance is correctable Stupidity is genetic and is for life. Gunner "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:57:06 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:32:57 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: Upscale NY..now there is a hotbed of illegal aliens. Oh **** yes. The Finger Lakes are beautiful this time of the year, arent they? So...it appears you have confirmed my comments on needing to get out a bit more. Pity. I see. You think the crops here jump off the plants into the boxes by themselves. What percentage of the workers are legal vs illegal? Crops come off the plants in New York the same way they do in California. By machine or by hand. Here in California...most of the workers are legal. Percentage wise..probably 70/30 legal to illegal. ICE and the State have been fairly proactive. On the other hand..small business outside of agriculture makes up the majority of illegal labor. Everything from sweat shops to plating shops to yard service and day labor. And a large majority of some of those industries are comprised of illegals. Illegals with false ID. The ratio is about 50/50 here. But, you knew that. In upstate New York? Why would I pay any attention to Upstate New Yorks illegal alien problem, specificly? Gunner "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:18:54 -0500, gringo wrote: Show me a 50' fence, I'll show you a 50' ladder. Mostly they clip a hole in it, or dig a few inches beneath it. The fence is a billion-dollar boondoggle to Bush's friends. Fining the employers who hire illegals is the only thing that will work. Chuckle..you think this is gonna be a simply 6 strand barbed wire fence that is never checked? http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL33659.pdf Note the extensive use of electronics, Preditor Drones and fast reaction forces. The current San Diego Fence has already had a strong effect as the arrests dropped suddenly..as the illegals moved easterly into Aridzona to go around the fence. So the California problem shifted into the next state over. Seems that fencing DOES work. Gunner BS. I lived for a time in SD, and I drive along the borderlands of CA-AZ-NM several times per month. Illegals cross the mountains east of the city without any problem (except lack of water). Even now, with all the hoopla about the problem, even now, you can sit on the shoulder of I-8 in a dozen places and watch them straggle through the mountain passes. The new fence won't be installed through the mountains. And just where are we going to get the money to pay for the expensive electronics--not to mention the trained "rapid reaction forces?" From the taxpayers, of course. Certainly not from the big corporations that benefit from the lower wages. The ground along the border has been seeded with electronic detection devices for quite some time, with little effect. Oh, technology works--but REpublicans beginning with REagan handicapped the Border Patrol and all other enforcement efforts. Before Reagan, Border Patrol agents all over the nation regularly raided those who employed illegal aliens, and loaded the illegals onto buses headed for the border; before Reagan, illegals skulked around in the shadows, or hid within the legal Latino communities. Reagan opened his arms and our borders to them. Nowadays, the Border Patrol are essentially mute witnesses to the flood of humanity crossing the southern border. During Bush Jr's terms, citizen groups have been our only border defense. During Bush's terms, what American jobs aren't up for grabs to the lowest bidder are being sent overseas (with the blessings of Bush and the Conservative Congress). Sixty thousand American-owned factories have relocated to China in the last five years. ****, even the coolie wages are too steep for the likes of Walmart, which is in a fight with China's government over their stated intention to raise the wages WM must pay by a few cents per week per employee. Empower the Border Patrol, not just along the borders but all over the nation; authorize local law enforcement apprehension of illegals; and fine the hell out of those who provide the illegals with a job. "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 -- *fas-cism* (fash'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism. -- The American Heritage Dictionary "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is...I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn." ------George W. Bush to the Houston Chronicle, April 9th, 1999 |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "JohnH" wrote in message ... Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to doubling the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's it. That's based on an incorrect assumption. I would expect a teacher to stumble here. You did. right Proud of that? right You're already dead. Can't afford the funeral? You ever watched them pick and pack lettuce? |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 01:33:19 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message .. . Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to doubling the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's it. That's based on an incorrect assumption. I would expect a teacher to stumble here. You did. right Proud of that? right You're already dead. Can't afford the funeral? I love it when your 'argument' turns to a personal attack. |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"Gunner" wrote in message
... On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:56:20 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:14:06 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message m... On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:35:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message news:au74k2t219sv0gnu508cook9d6tntun9h7@4ax. com... On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:57:14 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message news:gs43k210l98sl4h30jmemjjh4pp8mbb0q2@4a x.com... The authoritative source on crime and arrests is the FBI's "Crime in the United States" (CIUS). http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/ In 2005, there were 14,094,186 arrests in all jurisdictions; 603,000 of those were for violent crime. So, 4.3% of arrests were for violent crime, and about 96% for property crime, stock fraud, etc. GAO reported its study of illegal alien prisoners and the offenses for which they were arrested. Among a sample of illegal alien prisoners, 12% had been arrested for violent crimes. http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html There are 2,079,000 prisoners (fed, state, local), and 270,000 of those are illegal aliens. Conclusions: * Whether there are 8 million illegals, or 9 or 10 million (we don't know) among our 300 million US population, illegals are less than 3.4% of residents. * Yet, they are 13% of prisoners (270K / 2,079K), and 36% of those arrested and incarcerated for violent crimes (4.3% of 2,079K = 89.4K. 12% of 270K = 32.4K. 32.4 / 89.4 = 36%) * 88% of illegal alien criminals are not violent criminals, BUT illegal alien CRIMINALS are three times as likely to commit violent crime as criminals who are NOT illegal aliens (i.e. either natives, naturalized, or arrived here legally): 12% vs. 4.3%. What does that mean in the GENERAL population, not just the criminal underworld? It's BAD. In a representative sample of 10,000 US residents, there would be: 333 illegal aliens, of those 9 are jailed, and of those 1 (1.1) was arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 309 illegal aliens. Among the sample's 9,667 non-aliens, there would be: 60 jailed, and of those 3 (2.6) were arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 3,729 non-aliens. So the illegal alien GENERAL population has a propensity for violent crime 12 times that of the remainder of the US population. (3,729 / 309 = 12.1) Two things: 1) My toaster failed to kill me for the 8 billionth time. Has it made a tactical error? 2) Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are overrepresented in the prisons. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm Interesting stats. What do they mean to you? It means that there are certain segments of our society who are more prone to crime/violence than others, for a number of reasons. And what do they mean to you? Gunner I agree with your last statement. But, those numbers don't indicate anything about illegal immigrants unless more detail is provided. was this your question or not?: "Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are overrepresented in the prisons." Or are you trying to do another goalpost change once that I provided them from irrefutable sources? No. It was the first step on the way to my last question, about illegal immigrants. Now that you've (correctly) pointed out differences between certain groups, do you have any theories as to why these differences exist? Ive pointed them out repeatedly. Are you really this stupid? Again..for the record..its "culture" Now was there anything else you wish to ask before I write you off as terminally stupid? Ignorance is correctable Stupidity is genetic and is for life. Gunner Newsgroups must be the only place anyone will attempt to converse with you. That could change, and then what? Argue with your refrigerator? You might want to see a shrink. |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"Gunner" wrote in message
... On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:57:06 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:32:57 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: Upscale NY..now there is a hotbed of illegal aliens. Oh **** yes. The Finger Lakes are beautiful this time of the year, arent they? So...it appears you have confirmed my comments on needing to get out a bit more. Pity. I see. You think the crops here jump off the plants into the boxes by themselves. What percentage of the workers are legal vs illegal? Crops come off the plants in New York the same way they do in California. By machine or by hand. Here in California...most of the workers are legal. Percentage wise..probably 70/30 legal to illegal. ICE and the State have been fairly proactive. On the other hand..small business outside of agriculture makes up the majority of illegal labor. Everything from sweat shops to plating shops to yard service and day labor. And a large majority of some of those industries are comprised of illegals. Illegals with false ID. The ratio is about 50/50 here. But, you knew that. In upstate New York? Why would I pay any attention to Upstate New Yorks illegal alien problem, specificly? Gunner Because earlier, you said this: Do either of you buffoons actually live where there is an illegal workforce? You twits sound like a pair of Beltway or northwestern upscale yuppies who cant find your ass with either hand. Either in college, living with mommy and daddy, or working in some job that seldom gets your hands dirty. ....which implies that I knew nothing about how produce gets to market. You later implied that you knew something about agricultural workers here. |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
hlink.net... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "JohnH" wrote in message ... Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to doubling the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's it. That's based on an incorrect assumption. I would expect a teacher to stumble here. You did. right Proud of that? right You're already dead. Can't afford the funeral? You ever watched them pick and pack lettuce? No. Local lettuce here is usually of such small quantity that families (on farms) pick it themselves. However, I *have* watched squash, strawberries, cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli and other "ground crops" being harvested. Tough work. |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"Gunner" wrote in message
... On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:59:09 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:34:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message m... On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:53:48 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: It will be an eye opener for you. Gunner Asch To be perfectly honest, I have different priorities than you do, when it comes to dealing with violence. I'm more focused on why three or four elected officials and one or two shady advisors continue to live in luxury, at known addresses, even though they're responsible for the deaths of 2800 Americans. So in other words..you are a preprogrammed partisan hack with only one agenda and admittedly ignorant as a bag of hammers about the illegal issue, about which you have expounded at some length. Would that be a fair summation? Gunner Asch Because you incessantly resort to insults, it's clear you feel strongly about this immigrant thing. I think you should find a way to skim some of the money just appropriated for your president's big fence. There should be plenty, since it won't work, and probably will never get started. Yes..I feel VERY strongly about the Illegal issue. And more so everyday. They closed the ER AND the hospital down here in the small town I live in..because of the illegals. And now the closest emergency medical care is 42 miles away. People are dying in transit now...because of Illegals. Property taxes are high..California has one of the highest tax rates in the US..because of Illegals. School districts are overcrowded and dumbed down because of illegals. Crime is way up and in many places, its no longer safe to travel, because of illegals. The Fence? Its going up. Why do you say it wont work? Many stretches along Californias southern borders are already working. The anti-illegal movement is growning..the majority of the People are strongly in favor of stopping illegal immigration..to the tune of some 80 or more percent. So its going up. And when that stretch is completed..more will go up. Odd that you should even think about ripping off the government, and by extension..the People. It would appear, that no only are you stupid (statement of fact) but also have serious charector issues. Its only an insult when its not true. Nothing Ive said so far..that you consider an :insult:...has been untrue. Though from your point of view..deep in denial..I can understand it. Child molesters dont like to be labled child molesters anymore than the buffoonish like to be labled buffoons. Must such to be you. So kick back, enjoy the fall colors, get ready for winter and let the heavy issues be settled by people who actually give a ****. Gunner Skimming is suspected to be eating up almost 20% of the so-called reconstruction budget in Iraq. The same will happen with your president's fence project. Since you're one of "the people", you may as well get back some of your hard earned money. So we are using Middle Easterners ..a people whom the term Bakshee is part of their culture, to build the Fence? Hummm..though given the Corruption of unions and the Blue States..perhaps we do have our own quasi middle easterners. Democrats Gunner What makes you think Middle Easterners are the only ones soaking the government? Yesterday's news indicates that a Halliburton subsidiary's doing the same thing (again). |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 01:16:59 -0500, gringo wrote:
The ground along the border has been seeded with electronic detection devices for quite some time, with little effect. Oh, technology works--but REpublicans beginning with REagan handicapped the Border Patrol and all other enforcement efforts. Before Reagan, Border Patrol agents all over the nation regularly raided those who employed illegal aliens, and loaded the illegals onto buses headed for the border; before Reagan, illegals skulked around in the shadows, or hid within the legal Latino communities. Reagan opened his arms and our borders to them. Nowadays, the Border Patrol are essentially mute witnesses to the flood of humanity crossing the southern border. Odd..I notice you missed the 8 yrs of the Clinton Administration in your little propaganda rant. Was there some reason you failed to mention the overwhelming and sudden increase of illegals coming Norte duing those 8 yrs? The new fence down in the Diego area is working. Incontrovertably. But its a short one..so they simply go around..by some 20 or so miles. ICE and the Border Patrol are hardly Mute Witnesses. But there are not enough of them and are laboring under oppressive ROE. LA's Special Order 40 doesnt help either..Democrat law that forbids police from arresting an illegal simply because he/she is an illegal, and in fact, FORBIDS any police officer from working with or assisting Immigration. Special Order 40 btw..was instituted and is maintained by Democrats. Only Democrats. One Reporter's Opinion: Special Order 40: A Revolving Door George Putnam Friday, Jan. 23, 2004 It is this reporter's opinion that we instituted a revolving-door policy for illegal alien criminals 25 years ago when the Los Angeles City Council passed Special Order 40, a city ordinance prohibiting law enforcement from cooperating with the INS and enforcing federal immigration law. In other words, the City Council told Los Angeles police to lay off illegal aliens who had committed crimes. Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca says that when he receives inmates who are illegal, who have committed crimes and have served time in the county jail or even the state prison, he turns them over to the immigration services and they are deported. Appallingly, 70 percent of these illegal criminals are re- arrested in Los Angeles County within five years. These are convicted criminals who have been deported and then come back to commit more crimes. It's a revolving door. We are now to conclude peace officers are not permitted to make an arrest for a misdemeanor offense unless the misdemeanor crime is committed in the officer's presence. One officer says: "I see a deportee from a recognized gang crossing the street. I know I can't touch him. Only if the deported felon has given me some other reason to stop him, such as an observed narcotics sale, only then can I accost him -- but not for the immigration felony. He's broken the law. He's here illegally. He's in violation of our sovereignty. He's committed a felony. But I can't touch him." In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicides (which total 1,200-1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of the fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens. A California Department of Justice study reports that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street gang in Southern California are illegal. The bloody gang collaboration with the Mexican Mafia (the dominant force in California prisons), which deals in complex drug distribution schemes, extortion and assassinations, grows by the day, recruiting recently arrived youngsters \u2013 illegals from Central America and Mexico. And amidst all the topsy-turvy immigration turmoil, millions of illegals are working, shopping, traveling and committing crimes in plain view, utterly secure in their de facto immunity from the immigration law because police and sheriffs are as much as told to "lay off; they are the untouchables." In 1992, then-California Attorney General Dan Lundgren issued a legal opinion that held Special Order 40 to be unconstitutional under the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution. Recent federal court decisions have ruled that nothing in federal law prohibits local police officers from making arrests for violations of federal laws, including federal immigration laws. It only makes sense that no state or city could prohibit its employees from sending information about the status of an illegal immigrant to the federal government. As this is being written, a new CBS poll finds plummeting support for the president. His job approval rating has dropped from 60 percent to 50 percent. His disapproval rating following the announcement of his amnesty/guest worker plan is now at the highest ever \u2013 45 percent. And the nation is basically evenly split on the exploration of Mars. Add this to the public's negative opinions on jobs, taxes and immigration and one can only conclude that our Karl Rove-driven president is in trouble. The mayor, City Council and chief of police of Los Angeles have the perfect tools to appreciably reduce gang crime in this city but refuse to use them. The citizenry now calls upon these officials to revoke Special Order 40, which forbids LAPD officers from even asking the legal status of those violating laws. The INS must deport those who are here illegally and must implement Section 133 of our 1996 immigration law, which authorizes local law enforcement personnel to refer those illegally in this country to the INS for processing in accordance with federal law. It is clear that Special Order 40 is unlawful and unconstitutional and should be repealed. There is no logical reason for the city of Los Angeles to prevent its law enforcement agencies and personnel from actively cooperating with the INS and all other federal law enforcement agencies. Those who have violated federal law by remaining in the United States ILLEGALLY should be identified, arrested, prosecuted and, if found guilty, deported as quickly as due process allows. Such action should begin with the mayor and City Council. It can only lead to a better quality of life for all. Special Order 40 and similar shams have got to go! |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 13:16:17 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:56:20 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message ... On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:14:06 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message om... On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:35:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message news:au74k2t219sv0gnu508cook9d6tntun9h7@4ax .com... On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:57:14 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message news:gs43k210l98sl4h30jmemjjh4pp8mbb0q2@4 ax.com... The authoritative source on crime and arrests is the FBI's "Crime in the United States" (CIUS). http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/ In 2005, there were 14,094,186 arrests in all jurisdictions; 603,000 of those were for violent crime. So, 4.3% of arrests were for violent crime, and about 96% for property crime, stock fraud, etc. GAO reported its study of illegal alien prisoners and the offenses for which they were arrested. Among a sample of illegal alien prisoners, 12% had been arrested for violent crimes. http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html There are 2,079,000 prisoners (fed, state, local), and 270,000 of those are illegal aliens. Conclusions: * Whether there are 8 million illegals, or 9 or 10 million (we don't know) among our 300 million US population, illegals are less than 3.4% of residents. * Yet, they are 13% of prisoners (270K / 2,079K), and 36% of those arrested and incarcerated for violent crimes (4.3% of 2,079K = 89.4K. 12% of 270K = 32.4K. 32.4 / 89.4 = 36%) * 88% of illegal alien criminals are not violent criminals, BUT illegal alien CRIMINALS are three times as likely to commit violent crime as criminals who are NOT illegal aliens (i.e. either natives, naturalized, or arrived here legally): 12% vs. 4.3%. What does that mean in the GENERAL population, not just the criminal underworld? It's BAD. In a representative sample of 10,000 US residents, there would be: 333 illegal aliens, of those 9 are jailed, and of those 1 (1.1) was arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 309 illegal aliens. Among the sample's 9,667 non-aliens, there would be: 60 jailed, and of those 3 (2.6) were arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 3,729 non-aliens. So the illegal alien GENERAL population has a propensity for violent crime 12 times that of the remainder of the US population. (3,729 / 309 = 12.1) Two things: 1) My toaster failed to kill me for the 8 billionth time. Has it made a tactical error? 2) Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are overrepresented in the prisons. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm Interesting stats. What do they mean to you? It means that there are certain segments of our society who are more prone to crime/violence than others, for a number of reasons. And what do they mean to you? Gunner I agree with your last statement. But, those numbers don't indicate anything about illegal immigrants unless more detail is provided. was this your question or not?: "Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are overrepresented in the prisons." Or are you trying to do another goalpost change once that I provided them from irrefutable sources? No. It was the first step on the way to my last question, about illegal immigrants. Now that you've (correctly) pointed out differences between certain groups, do you have any theories as to why these differences exist? Ive pointed them out repeatedly. Are you really this stupid? Again..for the record..its "culture" Now was there anything else you wish to ask before I write you off as terminally stupid? Ignorance is correctable Stupidity is genetic and is for life. Gunner Newsgroups must be the only place anyone will attempt to converse with you. That could change, and then what? Argue with your refrigerator? You might want to see a shrink. Third strike. Your buffoonery, while cute at first, has become tedious. When you finally leave your parents basement in "upstate New York" and go visit the real world...perhaps there will be some hope for you..but frankly..I suspect you are simply too stupid to be allowed out in the real world without a handler wiping your nose, and keeping you out of trouble...and from walking in front of a bus. That would be ironic..if you in your stupidity, walked out in front of a van load of illegals. Chuckle Bye Buffoon. Please pick up your consolation prize on the way out, and exit through the door marked Terminally Stupid. plink Gunner |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"Gunner" wrote in message
... The new fence down in the Diego area is working. Incontrovertably. But its a short one..so they simply go around..by some 20 or so miles. Hopefully, it works better than this particular stretch of fence: http://www.break.com/movies/theboarderpatrol.html |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message hlink.net... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "JohnH" wrote in message ... Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to doubling the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's it. That's based on an incorrect assumption. I would expect a teacher to stumble here. You did. right Proud of that? right You're already dead. Can't afford the funeral? You ever watched them pick and pack lettuce? No. Local lettuce here is usually of such small quantity that families (on farms) pick it themselves. However, I *have* watched squash, strawberries, cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli and other "ground crops" being harvested. Tough work. They ride a machine and cut the head off and toss it on a conveyer belt up to a processing stand. Time spent per head is minimal. |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 01:16:59 -0500, gringo wrote: The ground along the border has been seeded with electronic detection devices for quite some time, with little effect. Oh, technology works--but REpublicans beginning with REagan handicapped the Border Patrol and all other enforcement efforts. Before Reagan, Border Patrol agents all over the nation regularly raided those who employed illegal aliens, and loaded the illegals onto buses headed for the border; before Reagan, illegals skulked around in the shadows, or hid within the legal Latino communities. Reagan opened his arms and our borders to them. Nowadays, the Border Patrol are essentially mute witnesses to the flood of humanity crossing the southern border. Odd..I notice you missed the 8 yrs of the Clinton Administration in your little propaganda rant. U.S. efforts to expand and strengthen the fight against illegal immigration - President Bill Clinton, Feb. 7, 1995 - Transcript US Department of State Dispatch, Feb 13, 1995 "Good morning. Two years ago, when I took office, I was determined to do a better job of dealing with the problem of illegal immigration. About two years ago this week, when I discussed with Janet Reno the possibility of her becoming attorney general, we had a talk about this, and for the last two years we have been hard at work trying to fix a system that everyone agrees has serious problems. "The Vice President and I have just been briefed by Attorney General Reno; Doris Meissner, the Commissioner of Immigration and Naturalization Service; our Secretary of Labor, Bob Reich; Maria Echaveste, the Director of the Wage and Hour Division of the Labor Department; Silvestre Reyes, Chief Border Patrol Agent of the El Paso Sector; Gus de la Vina, the Director of the Western Region of the Immigration and Naturalization Service; Doug Crum, the U.S. Border Chief; and George Weise, our Customs Commissioner. "After our meeting, I signed a presidential directive to the heads of all executive departments instructing them to very quickly expand and strengthen our program to reduce illegal immigration in four key areas: first, protecting our borders; second, protecting the interests of our workers in the workplace; third, removing more criminal aliens; and fourth, providing more assistance to the states which are burdened with the problem of illegal immigration." Protecting U.S. borders against illegal immigration - President Bill Clinton; Vice President Albert Gore, Jr.; Attorney General Janet Reno speeches; White House fact sheets - includes statement by State Department Spokesman Michael McCurry on Belarus and Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons - Transcript US Department of State Dispatch, August 9, 1993 .... http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...v4/ai_13263265 Remarks made at announcement of immigration policy, Washington, DC, July 27, 1993. President Clinton. Several weeks ago, I asked the Vice President to work with our departments and agencies to examine what more might be done about the problems along our borders. I was especially concerned about the growing problems of alien smuggling and international terrorists hiding behind immigrant status, as well as the continuing flow of illegal immigrants across American borders. Following several weeks of intense efforts, including his personal involvement in resolving the recent alien smuggling incident with Mexico, the Vice President presented me with a report spelling out what we might do. I have reviewed that report and approved it. We have spoken to Members of Congress, including those who are here today and others. I want to particularly acknowledge Senator Kennedy, Senator Simpson, and Congressmen Brooks and Mazzoli for all their work on this issue over many, many years. We're also in debt to Senators Feinstein and Boxer for their aggressive work in trying to deal with this growing problem, especially in the State of California; and I want to state publicly how much I appreciate the work the Hispanic Caucus has done to ensure that a balanced approach is adopted in dealing with this issue. The simple fact is that we must not--and we will not--surrender our borders to those who wish to exploit our history of compassion and justice. We cannot tolerate those who traffic in human cargo, nor can we allow our people to be endangered by those who would enter our country to terrorize Americans. But the solution to the problem of illegal immigration is not simply to close our borders. The solution is to welcome legal immigrants and legal, legitimate refugees and to turn away those who do not obey the laws. We must say no to illegal immigration so we can continue to say yes to legal immigration. Today we send a strong and clear message. We will make it tougher for illegal aliens to get into our country. We will treat organizing a crime syndicate to smuggle aliens as a serious crime. And we will increase the number of Border Patrol personnel, equipping and training them to be first-class law enforcement officers. These initiatives, for which I am asking the Congress for an additional $172.5 million in 1994, are an important step in regaining control over our borders and respect for our laws. When I made a commitment to combat this problem on June 18, 1 announced a plan of action. This is the next step in fulfilling that commitment. Some will worry that our action today sends the wrong message--that this means we are against all immigration and that is akin to America closing its doors. But nothing could be further from the truth. Let me be clear: Our nation has always been a safehaven for refugees and has always been the world's greatest melting pot. What we announce today will not make it tougher for the immigrant who comes to this country legally, lives by our laws, gets a job, and pursues the American dream. This Administration will promote family unification. We will reach out to those who have the skills we need to make our nation stronger, and we will welcome new citizens to our national family with honor and with dignity. But to treat terrorists and smugglers as immigrants dishonors the tradition of the immigrants who have made our nation great. And it unfairly taints the millions of immigrants who live here honorably and are a vital part of every segment of our society. Today's initiatives are about stopping crime, toughening the penalties for the criminals, and giving our law enforcement people the tools they need to do their job. I'm also taking steps today to address the long-term challenges of reforming our immigration policy. I intend to appoint a new chair to the congressionally mandated Commission on Immigration Reform and to ask the Congress to expand the commission to include senior Administration officials. I'm also asking our Attorney General, Janet Reno, and the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service Commissioner-Designate, Doris Meissner, to make sure the USINS is as professional and effectively managed as it can be. Under their leadership, I have no doubt that it will be. With these efforts, I hope that we can begin a broad-based national -- discussion on this important issue and move toward significant resolution of the problems that plague all Americans. Now, I'd like to ask the Vice President to come forward, with my thanks for his outstanding work, to discuss the specifics of the initiative. Vice President Gore. The centerpiece of these initiatives is a legislative proposal carefully drawn to protect the rights of legal immigrants while allowing us to speed up the exclusion of illegal aliens at ports of entry. Right now, thousands of aliens arrive each year at airports and other entry points without proper documentation. What happens if, as they come off the airplane or off some smuggler's ship, they request political asylum? They're entitled to a range of administrative procedures that enable them to remain in the United States for many long months or even longer. Of course, some deserve asylum. The facts show that most do not under our laws. Many never even show up for hearings and immediately become part of the large and growing illegal alien population. Was there some reason you failed to mention the overwhelming and sudden increase of illegals coming Norte duing those 8 yrs? There was no "sudden increase of illegals" during Clinton's terms. During REagan's years, the population of illegals increased ten-fold, however. At least Clinton tried to control the problem; but during a majority of his time in office he had to contend with obstructionist Republican majority in one or both Houses. Bush campaigned to Latinos prior to 2000 on a platform of "helping" Mexicans to meld into American society. The fact is that Republicans bend our laws and violate our Constitution to please their rich friends and Republican campaign contributors. Corporations do not make contributions: they make investments. The bulk of their "donations" go to the Republicans who do their bidding. The new fence down in the Diego area is working. Incontrovertably. But its a short one..so they simply go around..by some 20 or so miles. You cannot fence mountain ranges and canyons--ask american ranchers and farmers. Ask China how well its Great Wall protected its domain from the Mongol horde. Slave labor built the wall over a couple of centuries, thousands of miles long, in places seventy feet high. Today it is both an eyesore and a historical curiosity. But it was always ineffective in protecting China. ICE and the Border Patrol are hardly Mute Witnesses. But there are not enough of them and are laboring under oppressive ROE. Today they are mute witnesses. Only at border checkpoints are illegals nabbed. Once they slip through borderlands and escape into the heartland of America, they are ignored; if they are nabbed in, say, drug sweeps, they are released immediately. The problem is acute in towns big and small. The street corners of Valdosta, GA, Climax,AL, NYC,NY are limned with brown bodies, waiting for whatever work comes their way. They are competing with Americans and with one another for the available work; the work goes to the those who don't ask questions or make demands for equal wages. LA's Special Order 40 doesnt help either..Democrat law that forbids police from arresting an illegal simply because he/she is an illegal, and in fact, FORBIDS any police officer from working with or assisting Immigration. Special Order 40 btw..was instituted and is maintained by Democrats. Only Democrats. It was instituted during the term of LA police commissioner Gates. Gates could have taught Bush a thing or two about torturing prisoners. It isn't a LAW; it's a guideline established in 1979 to combat serious overcrowding of their jails. One Reporter's Opinion: Special Order 40: A Revolving Door George Putnam Friday, Jan. 23, 2004 It is this reporter's opinion that we instituted a revolving-door policy for illegal alien criminals 25 years ago when the Los Angeles City Council passed Special Order 40, a city ordinance prohibiting law enforcement from cooperating with the INS and enforcing federal immigration law. In other words, the City Council told Los Angeles police to lay off illegal aliens who had committed crimes. Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca says that when he receives inmates who are illegal, who have committed crimes and have served time in the county jail or even the state prison, he turns them over to the immigration services and they are deported. Appallingly, 70 percent of these illegal criminals are re- arrested in Los Angeles County within five years. These are convicted criminals who have been deported and then come back to commit more crimes. It's a revolving door. We are now to conclude peace officers are not permitted to make an arrest for a misdemeanor offense unless the misdemeanor crime is committed in the officer's presence. One officer says: "I see a deportee from a recognized gang crossing the street. I know I can't touch him. Only if the deported felon has given me some other reason to stop him, such as an observed narcotics sale, only then can I accost him -- but not for the immigration felony. He's broken the law. He's here illegally. He's in violation of our sovereignty. He's committed a felony. But I can't touch him." In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicides (which total 1,200-1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of the fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens. A California Department of Justice study reports that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street gang in Southern California are illegal. The bloody gang collaboration with the Mexican Mafia (the dominant force in California prisons), which deals in complex drug distribution schemes, extortion and assassinations, grows by the day, recruiting recently arrived youngsters \u2013 illegals from Central America and Mexico. And amidst all the topsy-turvy immigration turmoil, millions of illegals are working, shopping, traveling and committing crimes in plain view, utterly secure in their de facto immunity from the immigration law because police and sheriffs are as much as told to "lay off; they are the untouchables." In 1992, then-California Attorney General Dan Lundgren issued a legal opinion that held Special Order 40 to be unconstitutional under the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution. Recent federal court decisions have ruled that nothing in federal law prohibits local police officers from making arrests for violations of federal laws, including federal immigration laws. A Democrat. Under Democratic administrations on both state and Federal levels. It only makes sense that no state or city could prohibit its employees from sending information about the status of an illegal immigrant to the federal government. As this is being written, a new CBS poll finds plummeting support for the president. His job approval rating has dropped from 60 percent to 50 percent. His disapproval rating following the announcement of his amnesty/guest worker plan is now at the highest ever \u2013 45 percent. And the nation is basically evenly split on the exploration of Mars. his approval is hovering around 30%. Add this to the public's negative opinions on jobs, taxes and immigration and one can only conclude that our Karl Rove-driven president is in trouble. The mayor, City Council and chief of police of Los Angeles have the perfect tools to appreciably reduce gang crime in this city but refuse to use them. The citizenry now calls upon these officials to revoke Special Order 40, which forbids LAPD officers from even asking the legal status of those violating laws. The INS must deport those who are here illegally and must implement Section 133 of our 1996 immigration law, which authorizes local law enforcement personnel to refer those illegally in this country to the INS for processing in accordance with federal law. 1996 immigration law, passed during Clinton's administration, at his insistence. It is clear that Special Order 40 is unlawful and unconstitutional and should be repealed. There is no logical reason for the city of Los Angeles to prevent its law enforcement agencies and personnel from actively cooperating with the INS and all other federal law enforcement agencies. it is not a law in the legal sense of the word. But it is defacto law, all across the nation; it became so during REagan's terms. Those who have violated federal law by remaining in the United States ILLEGALLY should be identified, arrested, prosecuted and, if found guilty, deported as quickly as due process allows. Such action should begin with the mayor and City Council. It can only lead to a better quality of life for all. all 20,000,000 of them, huh? But if bush withdrew from Iraq--if he stopped "staying the course" in Iraq--we'd just about have enough taxpayer money to rent all the necessary buses necessary for a run to the border. Special Order 40 and similar shams have got to go! absolutely. But commonsense alone says that we cannot forcefully deport 20 million. The only viable alternative are huge monetary penalties placed on those who benefit from the coolie wages paid to the illegals. -- *fas-cism* (fash'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism. -- The American Heritage Dictionary "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is...I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn." ------George W. Bush to the Houston Chronicle, April 9th, 1999 |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Gunner" wrote in message ... The new fence down in the Diego area is working. Incontrovertably. But its a short one..so they simply go around..by some 20 or so miles. Hopefully, it works better than this particular stretch of fence: http://www.break.com/movies/theboarderpatrol.html obviously a parody, but apropos of the situation. Hellfire, the great Wall of China wouldn't stop the flow of illegals. Jailing a few corporate CEOs would. -- *fas-cism* (fash'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism. -- The American Heritage Dictionary "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is...I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn." ------George W. Bush to the Houston Chronicle, April 9th, 1999 |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"gringo" wrote in message
.. . "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is...I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn." ------George W. Bush to the Houston Chronicle, April 9th, 1999 What was it talking about when it said that? |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"gringo" wrote in message .. . "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is...I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn." ------George W. Bush to the Houston Chronicle, April 9th, 1999 What was it talking about when it said that? Boy George was referring to Clinton's plan to stop the genocide in Kosovo. Those who are now chickenhawks about Iraq sneered and called Clinton war monger, among other things when he threatened to bomb Taliban/al Qaeda in Afghanistan, and did all they could to stop Clinton's military involvement in European affairs. BTW, not a single American soldier lost his life in Kosovo--and yet we stopped the slaughter of millions of helpless civilians. Something else: have you noticed how all the conservatives are now decrying the Bush administration they praised to high heaven just a few weeks ago? Bush ain't no conservative, they cry: don't blame us for the mess Bush made of the nation--give us "true conservatives" complete control of all arms of government and we'll do a better job. BS. Bush IS a conservative--a "compassionate" is his claim. And don't be fooled when the next election rolls around: McCain is the same sort of consrvative--slightly more moderate, but with no moral base to help him resist the political power of the Neo-Conservatives who are wedded to fanatical religious ideologues. -- *fas-cism* (fash'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism. -- The American Heritage Dictionary "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is...I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn." ------George W. Bush to the Houston Chronicle, April 9th, 1999 |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 11:26:54 -0600, gringo wrote:
The ground along the border has been seeded with electronic detection devices for quite some time, with little effect. Oh, technology works--but REpublicans beginning with REagan handicapped the Border Patrol and all other enforcement efforts. Before Reagan, Border Patrol agents all over the nation regularly raided those who employed illegal aliens, and loaded the illegals onto buses headed for the border; before Reagan, illegals skulked around in the shadows, or hid within the legal Latino communities. Reagan opened his arms and our borders to them. Nowadays, the Border Patrol are essentially mute witnesses to the flood of humanity crossing the southern border. Odd..I notice you missed the 8 yrs of the Clinton Administration in your little propaganda rant. U.S. efforts to expand and strengthen the fight against illegal immigration - President Bill Clinton, Feb. 7, 1995 - Transcript US Department of State Dispatch, Feb 13, 1995 "Good morning. Two years ago, when I took office, I was determined to do a better job of dealing with the problem of illegal immigration. About two years ago this week, when I discussed with Janet Reno the possibility of her becoming attorney general, we had a talk about this, and for the last two years we have been hard at work trying to fix a system that everyone agrees has serious problems. "The Vice President and I have just been briefed by Attorney General Reno; Doris Meissner, the Commissioner of Immigration and Naturalization Service; our Secretary of Labor, Bob Reich; Maria Echaveste, the Director of the Wage and Hour Division of the Labor Department; Silvestre Reyes, Chief Border Patrol Agent of the El Paso Sector; Gus de la Vina, the Director of the Western Region of the Immigration and Naturalization Service; Doug Crum, the U.S. Border Chief; and George Weise, our Customs Commissione Snip lots of talk, little action. If Clinton wanted to stop illegal immigration, he could have. And no..he didnt. Same with Bush. Same with every president back to Wilson. And including Clinton http://www.theamericanresistance.com...n_numbers.html Step 1: Estimate the gross numbers of illegals entering the U.S. Census figures show that 90 percent of illegal immigration comes from Latin America, with 70 percent of the total from Mexico.26 The last decade has witnessed a tidal wave of illegal Mexican immigration. The Center for Immigration Studies noted: "Indeed, the last decade saw an unprecedented number of Mexicans cross the U.S. border. Between 1990 and 2000, their number doubled - from 4.2 million to 9.2 million, or 30 percent of the entire foreign-born population in the United States. Within this number, unauthorized Mexicans grew by more than 100 percent - from 2 million to 4.8 million, or 69 percent of all illegal aliens in the United States." Though the Mexican government should be embarrassed that 10 percent of its people have fled to the U.S. from Mexico, President Vicente Fox's administration has embraced this reality. In fact, increasing the number of Mexicans working illegally in the United States is among Mexico's highest foreign policy objectives.30 U.S. Government estimates of illegal aliens residing in the United States have been uniformly low.18 On December 9, 2003, Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge stated that there were 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens in the United States.1 The corrected U.S. Census Bureau estimate for 2003 was 8 million2; other Census data extrapolated to more like 10 million, and it recently has been questioned whether the actual number is much higher.20 Referring to a 2001 Northeastern University study stating that there were 11 million illegal aliens in the United States as opposed to U.S. Government estimates of 6 million,18 the Federation for American Immigration Refo Now there is no way in hell we can deport 20-30 million people. The US economy would implode. But..when one finds oneself in a hole..the first thing you do is stop digging. When in a flooding room..stop the flood first. Then you can pump out the water, and repair the damage. The Wall..is a good first step at stopping the flood. Gunner |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:02:05 -0600, gringo wrote:
BS. Bush IS a conservative Hardly. He is a moderate. But he was damned sure a better choice nonetheless, than that Marxist Kerry. Clinton wasnt a liberal either. He was a moderate. A moderate AND a scumbag. You got the scumbag part down pretty good. Gunner |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"Gunner" wrote in message
... On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:02:05 -0600, gringo wrote: BS. Bush IS a conservative Hardly. He is a moderate. But he was damned sure a better choice nonetheless, than that Marxist Kerry. What is a Marxist? You're a very smart person. I want to learn from you. |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"Gunner" wrote in message
... Snip lots of talk, little action. If Clinton wanted to stop illegal immigration, he could have. And no..he didnt. Same with Bush. Same with every president back to Wilson. And including Clinton Please tell us which native American tribe you descended from. |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:02:05 -0600, gringo wrote: BS. Bush IS a conservative Hardly. He is a moderate. But he was damned sure a better choice nonetheless, than that Marxist Kerry. What is a Marxist? You're a very smart person. I want to learn from you. LOL. Anyone who disagrees with gunner that God talks to the little shrub named George W. is a marxist. FYI, in the future I'll be deleting the cross-addresses. I post from misc.transport.trucking. -- *fas-cism* (fash'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism. -- The American Heritage Dictionary "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is...I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn." ------George W. Bush to the Houston Chronicle, April 9th, 1999 |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"gringo" wrote in message
.. . JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:02:05 -0600, gringo wrote: BS. Bush IS a conservative Hardly. He is a moderate. But he was damned sure a better choice nonetheless, than that Marxist Kerry. What is a Marxist? You're a very smart person. I want to learn from you. LOL. Anyone who disagrees with gunner that God talks to the little shrub named George W. is a marxist. Seriously, I think Gunner's a very smart person, and I'm glad he's insulted me in earlier messages because I'm not worthy to comment on politics or American history. After he tells me what a Marxist is, I want him to tell me what a socialist is, because very smart people in other newsgroups say Al Gore is a socialist. |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:09:52 -0600, gringo wrote:
What is a Marxist? You're a very smart person. I want to learn from you. LOL. Anyone who disagrees with gunner that God talks to the little shrub named George W. is a marxist. FYI, in the future I'll be deleting the cross-addresses. I post from misc.transport.trucking. Lots of Marxists truck drivers. Well..there used to be before the USSR imploded. I understand we still have some here in the States. Most of them belong to the Teamsters. Gunner |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"Gunner" wrote in message
... On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:09:52 -0600, gringo wrote: What is a Marxist? You're a very smart person. I want to learn from you. LOL. Anyone who disagrees with gunner that God talks to the little shrub named George W. is a marxist. FYI, in the future I'll be deleting the cross-addresses. I post from misc.transport.trucking. Lots of Marxists truck drivers. Well..there used to be before the USSR imploded. I understand we still have some here in the States. Most of them belong to the Teamsters. Gunner Please don't simplify this. I know your knowledge goes to depths I cannot imagine, even though I spent many hours in political science classes in college. What is a Marxist? |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Gunner wrote
on Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:19:47 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking : We had another DMV ******* popped last week. Taking an existing drivers license, changing the address and the picture and the name.and selling them to illegals for $500-1800 a pop. What could be more legitimate...an ID right straight from the DMV. Too bad its bogus..but it sure LOOKs legal with all the proper holligrams and embossing. Though I can buy a decent set of ID at an swap meet or park..give em $150, a small photo..and hang around for an hour..and a runner brings it back to me..and damned hard to spot as counterfiet. I know..I used to be a cop here in California. As President Lech Welensa said, back in the 80s "Where there is stupidity, there are business opportunities." -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone." |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 05:24:21 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "gringo" wrote in message . .. JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:02:05 -0600, gringo wrote: BS. Bush IS a conservative Hardly. He is a moderate. But he was damned sure a better choice nonetheless, than that Marxist Kerry. What is a Marxist? You're a very smart person. I want to learn from you. LOL. Anyone who disagrees with gunner that God talks to the little shrub named George W. is a marxist. Seriously, I think Gunner's a very smart person, and I'm glad he's insulted me in earlier messages because I'm not worthy to comment on politics or American history. After he tells me what a Marxist is, I want him to tell me what a socialist is, because very smart people in other newsgroups say Al Gore is a socialist. Doug, you seem to know so little. Why not just go to the other newsgroups with all the smart people and ask them? |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"JohnH" wrote in message
... On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 05:24:21 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "gringo" wrote in message ... JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:02:05 -0600, gringo wrote: BS. Bush IS a conservative Hardly. He is a moderate. But he was damned sure a better choice nonetheless, than that Marxist Kerry. What is a Marxist? You're a very smart person. I want to learn from you. LOL. Anyone who disagrees with gunner that God talks to the little shrub named George W. is a marxist. Seriously, I think Gunner's a very smart person, and I'm glad he's insulted me in earlier messages because I'm not worthy to comment on politics or American history. After he tells me what a Marxist is, I want him to tell me what a socialist is, because very smart people in other newsgroups say Al Gore is a socialist. Doug, you seem to know so little. Why not just go to the other newsgroups with all the smart people and ask them? No. I like it here. Others here, like PatBert, like to toss around words like "socialist" & "Marxist", but I can never get them to explain what those words mean. Since Gunner is one of the smartest people here, I'm hoping he'll bless me with an explanation, in his own words. |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Please don't simplify this. I know your knowledge goes to depths I cannot imagine, even though I spent many hours in political science classes in college. What is a Marxist? Here, Google is your friend: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ition&ct=title |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
wrote in message
oups.com... JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Please don't simplify this. I know your knowledge goes to depths I cannot imagine, even though I spent many hours in political science classes in college. What is a Marxist? Here, Google is your friend: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ition&ct=title I want Gunner's explanation, based on the context in which he uses the word. |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:46:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: Doug, you seem to know so little. Why not just go to the other newsgroups with all the smart people and ask them? No. I like it here. Others here, like PatBert, like to toss around words like "socialist" & "Marxist", but I can never get them to explain what those words mean. Since Gunner is one of the smartest people here, I'm hoping he'll bless me with an explanation, in his own words. Maybe I can help you out: Main Entry: so·cial·ism Pronunciation: 'sO-sh&-"li-z&m Function: noun 1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods 2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state 3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done Main Entry: Marx·ism Pronunciation: 'märk-"si-z&m Function: noun: the political, economic, and social principles and policies advocated by Marx; especially : a theory and practice of socialism including the labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, the class struggle, and dictatorship of the proletariat until the establishment of a classless society Main Entry: social democracy Function: noun 1 : a political movement advocating a gradual and peaceful transition from capitalism to socialism by democratic means 2 : a democratic welfare state that incorporates both capitalist and socialist practices There. Now will you go to the group with all the smart people? |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"JohnH" wrote in message
... On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:46:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: Doug, you seem to know so little. Why not just go to the other newsgroups with all the smart people and ask them? No. I like it here. Others here, like PatBert, like to toss around words like "socialist" & "Marxist", but I can never get them to explain what those words mean. Since Gunner is one of the smartest people here, I'm hoping he'll bless me with an explanation, in his own words. Maybe I can help you out: Main Entry: so·cial·ism Pronunciation: 'sO-sh&-"li-z&m Function: noun 1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods 2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state 3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done Main Entry: Marx·ism Pronunciation: 'märk-"si-z&m Function: noun: the political, economic, and social principles and policies advocated by Marx; especially : a theory and practice of socialism including the labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, the class struggle, and dictatorship of the proletariat until the establishment of a classless society Main Entry: social democracy Function: noun 1 : a political movement advocating a gradual and peaceful transition from capitalism to socialism by democratic means 2 : a democratic welfare state that incorporates both capitalist and socialist practices There. Now will you go to the group with all the smart people? No. I want Gunner's explanation, based on the context in which he used the word. |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:02:05 -0600, gringo wrote: BS. Bush IS a conservative Hardly. He is a moderate. But he was damned sure a better choice nonetheless, than that Marxist Kerry. What is a Marxist? You're a very smart person. I want to learn from you. Marx·ism (märk'siz'?m) n. |
OT: Wake Up And Smell The Invasion !!!!
"Roughrider50" wrote in message ... Fits the description of a few posters on this NG. I think everyone here knows who that is. *Which* NG? You are crossposting to five of them. Eisboch |
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