Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Poor Columbus.

Almost none of what we learned about Columbus back when kids in grade
school turns out to be true.

Back in the 50's and 60's, they used to teach us that Columbus
dispelled the popular notion that the world was flat. Wrong, of course.
Since the days of Aristotle nearly all educated people knew the world
was basically a sphere.

Then they taught us that Columbus "discovered America". Not true of
course, as the millions of people already living here must have somehow
"discovered" it many many thousands of years previously. To correct
this obvious error, revisionists were quick to point out that the
Vikings had discovered American hundreds of years before Columbus, but
figured that nothing of any consequnce could ever be developed there
and eventually abandoned their colonies.

They taught us that Columbus assumed he had landed in India. Nonsense
again. Northern European markets were awash in salted cod from the
banks in the western Atlantic long before Columbus sailed the ocean
blue. Seamen knew what was out there, what direction to sail to get
there, and about how far away it was.

One of the great controversies in the time of Columbus was the biblical
challenge associated with western hemisphere. The Bible mentioned
Africa and Asia, so the Church had no problem acknowledging that those
regions existed. Since the Bible did not mention the western continent,
the Church feared that a broad awareness of the western lands might
undermine the concept of Biblical infallibility (and therefore Church
authority). In a time when the Inquisition was burning, crucifying,
branding, and banishing "heretics", the Spanish monarchs and Columbus
had little choice except to disguise their voyage to the western
continent as a passage to "India."

But hats off to Columbus. He made a relatively hazardous voyage, laid
the foundation for the vast wealth of the fledgling Spanish Empire, and
was one of the better spin meisters of his day. :-)

Oh, and one final thing they got wrong about Columbus. His name. His
name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Tom Francis wrote:
On 12 Oct 2006 08:05:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Oh, and one final thing they got wrong about Columbus. His name. His
name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon.

Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

~~ sigh ~~

I take it that you disagree with this?

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Tom Francis wrote:
On 12 Oct 2006 08:05:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Oh, and one final thing they got wrong about Columbus. His name. His
name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon.

Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

~~ sigh ~~

Slaver? Yes, there is some evidence for that.
Native abuser and rapist? I think the jury is still out on that one.
Whether the native women had to be forced or whether they were
generally available on a "welcome to our village, here's a gift to
demonstrate how happy we are to see you" basis might to tough to
establish, especially since most of the first contact cultures were
wiped out by disease.

Among the more profound events that occured during the four voyages of
Cristobol Colon to the New World had to be the exchange of microbes.
Entire islands were depopulated as the natives fell victim to mumps,
measles, and other diseases that often were normally considered
survivable in Europe. Not to be outdone, however, the natives sent
Columbus' crews home with a bit of a departure present. Syphillis was
unkown in Europe until 1493.
Apparently the natives had developed an immunity to syphllis, but
virtually everybody was a "carrier".

So if the New American Indian Movement wants to be anti-Columbus, the
least they can do would be to "clap" politely in his honor. :-)

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Tom Francis wrote:
On 12 Oct 2006 09:02:29 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Slaver? Yes, there is some evidence for that.
Native abuser and rapist? I think the jury is still out on that one.

This is one article I found - I'm still looking for the one with the
rapist thing.

http://tinyurl.com/y7ba8r

The rational is truly amazing.

Yeah, I don't know who those Native Americans think they are. Acting
like the own the place. Don't they know that the United States is the
Anglo's? Why do they think we went to all of the trouble to send them
on a scenic journey called the Trail of Tears? And after we rounded
them all up like cattle, we gave them nice pieces of land to develop
and use as their own. It's not OUR fault that most of the land we gave
them is arid, untillable, and won't sustain life.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Alotta Fagina wrote:
You wrote:

Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

We're talking about Colon, not Clinton.

Are you capable of making ANY type of remark that isn't either childish
and petty name calling, or worse, completely and utterly stupid?

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

basskisser wrote:
Alotta Fagina wrote:

You wrote:


Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

We're talking about Colon, not Clinton.


Are you capable of making ANY type of remark that isn't either childish
and petty name calling, or worse, completely and utterly stupid?


Do you have a macro set to post that response?

http://tinyurl.com/uwtar

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

"Dan" wrote in message
ink.net...
basskisser wrote:
Alotta Fagina wrote:

You wrote:


Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

We're talking about Colon, not Clinton.


Are you capable of making ANY type of remark that isn't either childish
and petty name calling, or worse, completely and utterly stupid?


Do you have a macro set to post that response?

http://tinyurl.com/uwtar

LOL! I wonder.....did *he* call anyone names today?

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

"Tom Francis" wrote in message
...
On 12 Oct 2006 08:05:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Oh, and one final thing they got wrong about Columbus. His name. His
name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon.

Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

~~ sigh ~~

But the First Nation people / Native American's were slave holders also.
Abused other natives, and probably a few rapist among them. Oh Well.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...

"Tom Francis" wrote in message
...
On 12 Oct 2006 08:05:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Oh, and one final thing they got wrong about Columbus. His name. His
name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon.

Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

~~ sigh ~~

But the First Nation people / Native American's were slave holders also.
Abused other natives, and probably a few rapist among them. Oh Well.


They made the slave work at their casino's and cigarette stores. ;-)

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
ps.com...

Tom Francis wrote:
On 12 Oct 2006 09:02:29 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Slaver? Yes, there is some evidence for that.
Native abuser and rapist? I think the jury is still out on that one.

This is one article I found - I'm still looking for the one with the
rapist thing.

http://tinyurl.com/y7ba8r

The rational is truly amazing.

Yeah, I don't know who those Native Americans think they are. Acting
like the own the place. Don't they know that the United States is the
Anglo's? Why do they think we went to all of the trouble to send them
on a scenic journey called the Trail of Tears? And after we rounded
them all up like cattle, we gave them nice pieces of land to develop
and use as their own. It's not OUR fault that most of the land we gave
them is arid, untillable, and won't sustain life.


Grows casinos very well. And the Native Americans, sent their brothers on
trails of tears also. the Sioux sent the Apaches off the fertile planes.
The Anastasias were sent on their way by the Apaches as they came Southwest.
So, give your property to the local Indians and move back to Europe. And
the Native Americans, were originally Mongols and other Asian tribes. Were
they being run off their lands by local despots? And Nova Scotia was
originally Viking land. Conflict has been man's way since the birth of
mankind.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Dan wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Alotta Fagina wrote:

You wrote:


Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

We're talking about Colon, not Clinton.


Are you capable of making ANY type of remark that isn't either childish
and petty name calling, or worse, completely and utterly stupid?


Do you have a macro set to post that response?

Why, where have I ever posted that particular response before? Do
tell.....

http://tinyurl.com/uwtar

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

JimH wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message
ink.net...
basskisser wrote:
Alotta Fagina wrote:

You wrote:


Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

We're talking about Colon, not Clinton.


Are you capable of making ANY type of remark that isn't either childish
and petty name calling, or worse, completely and utterly stupid?


Do you have a macro set to post that response?

http://tinyurl.com/uwtar

LOL! I wonder.....did *he* call anyone names today?

Typical of the JimH cowardice. Because he's not man enough to face
anyone he's said nasty and ****ty things about, he claims to killfile
them, then continue his childish bull**** insults. Coward.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ps.com...

Tom Francis wrote:
On 12 Oct 2006 09:02:29 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Slaver? Yes, there is some evidence for that.
Native abuser and rapist? I think the jury is still out on that one.

This is one article I found - I'm still looking for the one with the
rapist thing.

http://tinyurl.com/y7ba8r

The rational is truly amazing.

Yeah, I don't know who those Native Americans think they are. Acting
like the own the place. Don't they know that the United States is the
Anglo's? Why do they think we went to all of the trouble to send them
on a scenic journey called the Trail of Tears? And after we rounded
them all up like cattle, we gave them nice pieces of land to develop
and use as their own. It's not OUR fault that most of the land we gave
them is arid, untillable, and won't sustain life.


Grows casinos very well. And the Native Americans, sent their brothers on
trails of tears also. the Sioux sent the Apaches off the fertile planes.
The Anastasias were sent on their way by the Apaches as they came Southwest.
So, give your property to the local Indians and move back to Europe. And
the Native Americans, were originally Mongols and other Asian tribes. Were
they being run off their lands by local despots? And Nova Scotia was
originally Viking land. Conflict has been man's way since the birth of
mankind.

So, because of your above diatribe, you think we've done good by the
native americans???? Really??
You do realize that, even as casinos rise, there is pure hell on the
reservations? Poverty, alcoholism, etc., right?
Also, you are dead wrong about the Trail of Tears. A few Cherokee
leaders were promised great things by, you guessed it, the white man,
in turn for signing the Treaty of New Echota, while most cherokee were
against it:

"In 1835 some leaders of the Cherokee tribe signed the Treaty of New
Echota. This agreement ceded all rights to their traditional lands to
the United States. In return the tribe was granted land in the Indian
Territory. Although the majority of the Cherokees opposed this
agreement they were forced to make the journey by General Winfield
Scott and his soldiers. In October 1838 about 15,000 Cherokees began
what was later to be known as the Trail of Tears. Most of the Cherokees
travelled the 800 mile journey on foot. As a result of serious mistakes
made by the Federal agents who guided them to their new land, they
suffered from hunger and the cold weather and an estimated 4,000 people
died on the journey"

"Overall it is believed that about 70,000 Native Americans were forced
to migrate from Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Virginia, Tennessee and
Florida to Oklahoma. During the journey many died as a result of famine
and disease."

Boy, we sure did good by them, huh?

As far as the Nez Perce:

n 1877 General Otis Howard instructed Chief Joseph and the Nez Perce
tribe to move from their tribal lands in Oregon. Joseph eventually
agreed to leave the Wallowa Valley and along with 350 followers settled
in Whitebird Creek in Idaho. Around 190 young men rebelled against this
decision and attacked white settlers in what became known as the Nez
Perce War. Joseph's brother, Sousouquee, was killed during this
fighting. Although he had no experience as a warrior, Joseph took part
in the battles at White Bird Canyon (17th June), Clearwater (11th July)
and at Bear Paw Mountain (30th September).

"Chief Joseph and his men began a 1,300 mile march to Canada. However,
on 5th October, 1877, the Nez Perce were surrounded by troops only 30
miles from the Canadian border. Joseph now agreed to take part in
negotiations with General Nelson Miles. During the meeting Joseph was
seized and beaten-up. Nez Perce warriors retaliated by capturing
Lieutenant Lovell Jerome. A few weeks later Joseph was released in
exchange for Lieutenant Jerome.

Chief Joseph continued to negotiate with General Miles. He also visited
Washington where he met President William McKinley and President
Theodore Roosevelt . Eventually some members of the Nez Perce tribe
were allowed to return home but others were forced to live on the
Colville Reservation. Joseph remained with them and did what he could
to encourage his people to go to school and to discourage gambling and
drunkenness."

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 18:00:34 +0000, Calif Bill wrote:



The Sioux sent the Apaches off the fertile planes.

And the Sioux were chased out of Wisconsin and Minnesota by the Chippewa.
Being that the horse came over with Columbus, ever wonder about the great
horse culture before the white man?

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ps.com...

Tom Francis wrote:
On 12 Oct 2006 09:02:29 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Slaver? Yes, there is some evidence for that.
Native abuser and rapist? I think the jury is still out on that one.

This is one article I found - I'm still looking for the one with the
rapist thing.

http://tinyurl.com/y7ba8r

The rational is truly amazing.

Yeah, I don't know who those Native Americans think they are. Acting
like the own the place. Don't they know that the United States is the
Anglo's? Why do they think we went to all of the trouble to send them
on a scenic journey called the Trail of Tears? And after we rounded
them all up like cattle, we gave them nice pieces of land to develop
and use as their own. It's not OUR fault that most of the land we gave
them is arid, untillable, and won't sustain life.


Grows casinos very well. And the Native Americans, sent their brothers
on
trails of tears also. the Sioux sent the Apaches off the fertile planes.
The Anastasias were sent on their way by the Apaches as they came
Southwest.
So, give your property to the local Indians and move back to Europe. And
the Native Americans, were originally Mongols and other Asian tribes.
Were
they being run off their lands by local despots? And Nova Scotia was
originally Viking land. Conflict has been man's way since the birth of
mankind.

So, because of your above diatribe, you think we've done good by the
native americans???? Really??
You do realize that, even as casinos rise, there is pure hell on the
reservations? Poverty, alcoholism, etc., right?
Also, you are dead wrong about the Trail of Tears. A few Cherokee
leaders were promised great things by, you guessed it, the white man,
in turn for signing the Treaty of New Echota, while most cherokee were
against it:

"In 1835 some leaders of the Cherokee tribe signed the Treaty of New
Echota. This agreement ceded all rights to their traditional lands to
the United States. In return the tribe was granted land in the Indian
Territory. Although the majority of the Cherokees opposed this
agreement they were forced to make the journey by General Winfield
Scott and his soldiers. In October 1838 about 15,000 Cherokees began
what was later to be known as the Trail of Tears. Most of the Cherokees
travelled the 800 mile journey on foot. As a result of serious mistakes
made by the Federal agents who guided them to their new land, they
suffered from hunger and the cold weather and an estimated 4,000 people
died on the journey"

"Overall it is believed that about 70,000 Native Americans were forced
to migrate from Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Virginia, Tennessee and
Florida to Oklahoma. During the journey many died as a result of famine
and disease."

Boy, we sure did good by them, huh?

As far as the Nez Perce:

n 1877 General Otis Howard instructed Chief Joseph and the Nez Perce
tribe to move from their tribal lands in Oregon. Joseph eventually
agreed to leave the Wallowa Valley and along with 350 followers settled
in Whitebird Creek in Idaho. Around 190 young men rebelled against this
decision and attacked white settlers in what became known as the Nez
Perce War. Joseph's brother, Sousouquee, was killed during this
fighting. Although he had no experience as a warrior, Joseph took part
in the battles at White Bird Canyon (17th June), Clearwater (11th July)
and at Bear Paw Mountain (30th September).

"Chief Joseph and his men began a 1,300 mile march to Canada. However,
on 5th October, 1877, the Nez Perce were surrounded by troops only 30
miles from the Canadian border. Joseph now agreed to take part in
negotiations with General Nelson Miles. During the meeting Joseph was
seized and beaten-up. Nez Perce warriors retaliated by capturing
Lieutenant Lovell Jerome. A few weeks later Joseph was released in
exchange for Lieutenant Jerome.

Chief Joseph continued to negotiate with General Miles. He also visited
Washington where he met President William McKinley and President
Theodore Roosevelt . Eventually some members of the Nez Perce tribe
were allowed to return home but others were forced to live on the
Colville Reservation. Joseph remained with them and did what he could
to encourage his people to go to school and to discourage gambling and
drunkenness."


so maybe the Indians, should asimilate and not live on the reservations.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"Tom Francis" wrote in message
...
On 12 Oct 2006 08:05:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Oh, and one final thing they got wrong about Columbus. His name. His
name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon.

Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

~~ sigh ~~

But the First Nation people / Native American's were slave holders also.
Abused other natives, and probably a few rapist among them. Oh Well.

Slaves were commonly held by the wealthiest First Nations families here
on the NW Coast.
Much like people enslaved by folks of European ancestry, the slaves
were assigned the most difficult or menial tasks while the slave owners
lived relatively luxurious lifestyles.

Here's a link to a synopsis of well known a tale describing the
enslavement of an Englishman by a native chief in British Columbia:

http://www.abcbookworld.com/?state=v...author_id=3954

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ps.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"Tom Francis" wrote in message
...
On 12 Oct 2006 08:05:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Oh, and one final thing they got wrong about Columbus. His name. His
name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon.

Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

~~ sigh ~~

But the First Nation people / Native American's were slave holders also.
Abused other natives, and probably a few rapist among them. Oh Well.

Slaves were commonly held by the wealthiest First Nations families here
on the NW Coast.
Much like people enslaved by folks of European ancestry, the slaves
were assigned the most difficult or menial tasks while the slave owners
lived relatively luxurious lifestyles.

Here's a link to a synopsis of well known a tale describing the
enslavement of an Englishman by a native chief in British Columbia:

http://www.abcbookworld.com/?state=v...author_id=3954


Welcome to the dark side Chuck as it seems that your posts now include OT
posts your previously sheriffed against. ;-)

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
Poor Columbus.

It's good to see you have acquiesced to the culture here; you championed a
strict on-topic rule, but now you understand that most posters are not here
to discuss boating. It seems only a short time ago I was reading that the
forum was greatly improved, and that OT topics were now at a minimum; would
you now agree with that statement?

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

"John Wentworth" wrote in message
. ..

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
Poor Columbus.

It's good to see you have acquiesced to the culture here; you championed a
strict on-topic rule, but now you understand that most posters are not
here to discuss boating. It seems only a short time ago I was reading that
the forum was greatly improved, and that OT topics were now at a minimum;
would you now agree with that statement?


I dunno, if memory serves, the one thing Columbus was famous for was a boat
ride across the pond. Doesn't seem all that off topic to me.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

JimH wrote:

Welcome to the dark side Chuck as it seems that your posts now include OT
posts your previously sheriffed against. ;-)


Not at all, JimH.

Columbus was one hell of a maritime explorer, was he not? How is a
famous mariner off topic for a boating newsgroup?

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ps.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"Tom Francis" wrote in message
...
On 12 Oct 2006 08:05:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Oh, and one final thing they got wrong about Columbus. His name. His
name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon.

Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

~~ sigh ~~

But the First Nation people / Native American's were slave holders also.
Abused other natives, and probably a few rapist among them. Oh Well.

Slaves were commonly held by the wealthiest First Nations families here
on the NW Coast.
Much like people enslaved by folks of European ancestry, the slaves
were assigned the most difficult or menial tasks while the slave owners
lived relatively luxurious lifestyles.

Here's a link to a synopsis of well known a tale describing the
enslavement of an Englishman by a native chief in British Columbia:

http://www.abcbookworld.com/?state=v...author_id=3954


Welcome to the dark side Chuck as it seems that your posts now include OT
posts your previously sheriffed against. ;-)


Actually was a great read at the link. Included boats, and massacres, guns,
and knifes.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

John Wentworth wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
Poor Columbus.

It's good to see you have acquiesced to the culture here; you championed a
strict on-topic rule, but now you understand that most posters are not here
to discuss boating. It seems only a short time ago I was reading that the
forum was greatly improved, and that OT topics were now at a minimum; would
you now agree with that statement?

Maybe my standards are more lax than yours, but I consider a thread
about Columbus or any other mariner of historic importance to be a
relevant topic in a boating NG.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Tom Francis wrote:
On 13 Oct 2006 07:39:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


John Wentworth wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
Poor Columbus.

It's good to see you have acquiesced to the culture here; you championed a
strict on-topic rule, but now you understand that most posters are not here
to discuss boating. It seems only a short time ago I was reading that the
forum was greatly improved, and that OT topics were now at a minimum; would
you now agree with that statement?

Maybe my standards are more lax than yours, but I consider a thread
about Columbus or any other mariner of historic importance to be a
relevant topic in a boating NG.

How do you feel about Amerigo Vespucci?

I've never studied up much on him, but I know he was one of the
earliest Portuguese explorers to actual find the mainlands on North and
South America.

When is Amerigo Vespucci day? When his holiday comes around it might be
useful to post a few lines about this important historic navigator as
well.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

"Tom Francis" wrote in message
...
On 13 Oct 2006 07:39:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


John Wentworth wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
Poor Columbus.

It's good to see you have acquiesced to the culture here; you championed
a
strict on-topic rule, but now you understand that most posters are not
here
to discuss boating. It seems only a short time ago I was reading that
the
forum was greatly improved, and that OT topics were now at a minimum;
would
you now agree with that statement?

Maybe my standards are more lax than yours, but I consider a thread
about Columbus or any other mariner of historic importance to be a
relevant topic in a boating NG.

How do you feel about Amerigo Vespucci?

I always admired Evangelista Torricelli , myself.

Eisboch

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Tom Francis wrote:


Or Jaques Cartier Day.


Jacques Cartier Day?
Really?
What happened, on his watch?

(Running and ducking through a chorus of boos and a salvo of half eaten
stadium food, the unfortunate comedian made a hasty exit to pursue his
day job.....)

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Tom Francis wrote:
On 13 Oct 2006 08:32:48 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


Tom Francis wrote:

On 13 Oct 2006 07:39:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


John Wentworth wrote:

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
glegroups.com...

Poor Columbus.

It's good to see you have acquiesced to the culture here; you championed a
strict on-topic rule, but now you understand that most posters are not here
to discuss boating. It seems only a short time ago I was reading that the
forum was greatly improved, and that OT topics were now at a minimum; would
you now agree with that statement?

Maybe my standards are more lax than yours, but I consider a thread
about Columbus or any other mariner of historic importance to be a
relevant topic in a boating NG.

How do you feel about Amerigo Vespucci?

I've never studied up much on him, but I know he was one of the
earliest Portuguese explorers to actual find the mainlands on North and
South America.

When is Amerigo Vespucci day? When his holiday comes around it might be
useful to post a few lines about this important historic navigator as
well.


How about Henry Hudson? :)

WHEN THE HELL IS HENRY HUDSON DAY?!?!?!?!?

Hmmmmm?

Or for that matter, Canada should have a Sir Humphrey
Gilbert Day.

Or Jaques Cartier Day.

Man, I'm telling you Chuck, you are on to something here.


My entire working career, we heard that we should have another stat
holiday in February. I'm retired now and still waiting.
Business up here complain how much that would cost them.
In this area we have New Years, Good Friday & Easter Sunday, Victoria
Day, Natal Day, Labour Day, Thanksgiving, Rememberance Day and finally
Christmas.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Don White wrote:
Tom Francis wrote:

On 13 Oct 2006 08:32:48 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


Tom Francis wrote:

On 13 Oct 2006 07:39:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


John Wentworth wrote:

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

Poor Columbus.


It's good to see you have acquiesced to the culture here; you
championed a
strict on-topic rule, but now you understand that most posters are
not here
to discuss boating. It seems only a short time ago I was reading
that the
forum was greatly improved, and that OT topics were now at a
minimum; would
you now agree with that statement?


Maybe my standards are more lax than yours, but I consider a thread
about Columbus or any other mariner of historic importance to be a
relevant topic in a boating NG.


How do you feel about Amerigo Vespucci?


I've never studied up much on him, but I know he was one of the
earliest Portuguese explorers to actual find the mainlands on North and
South America.

When is Amerigo Vespucci day? When his holiday comes around it might be
useful to post a few lines about this important historic navigator as
well.



How about Henry Hudson? :)

WHEN THE HELL IS HENRY HUDSON DAY?!?!?!?!?

Hmmmmm?

Or for that matter, Canada should have a Sir Humphrey
Gilbert Day.

Or Jaques Cartier Day.

Man, I'm telling you Chuck, you are on to something here.



My entire working career, we heard that we should have another stat
holiday in February. I'm retired now and still waiting.
Business up here complain how much that would cost them.
In this area we have New Years, Good Friday & Easter Sunday, Victoria
Day, Natal Day, Labour Day, Thanksgiving, Rememberance Day and finally
Christmas.
D'oh! I forgot Canada Day on July 01.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

"Tom Francis" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:54:20 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

On 13 Oct 2006 07:39:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:



Maybe my standards are more lax than yours, but I consider a thread
about Columbus or any other mariner of historic importance to be a
relevant topic in a boating NG.

How do you feel about Amerigo Vespucci?

I always admired Evangelista Torricelli , myself.

Piffle. He was a mere candle to the bright flame of brilliance that
was Tycho Brahe.

Claudius Ptolemy taught him everything he knew.

Eisboch

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

"Tom Francis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:52:29 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Tom Francis" wrote in message
. ..

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:54:20 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

On 13 Oct 2006 07:39:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:



Maybe my standards are more lax than yours, but I consider a thread
about Columbus or any other mariner of historic importance to be a
relevant topic in a boating NG.

How do you feel about Amerigo Vespucci?

I always admired Evangelista Torricelli , myself.

Piffle. He was a mere candle to the bright flame of brilliance that
was Tycho Brahe.

Claudius Ptolemy taught him everything he knew.

Um....Brahe proved that the Ptolemaic was garbage.

Ptolemy was a dumbass. :)

How about a Pourbaix day. And we could all go to Subway.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:57:35 GMT, Tom Francis
wrote:

WHEN THE HELL IS HENRY HUDSON DAY?

Henry was trying to find the Northwest Passage, and failed.

Columbus thought he succeeded. :-)

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

"Tom Francis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:07:42 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Tom Francis" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:52:29 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Tom Francis" wrote in message
m...

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:54:20 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

On 13 Oct 2006 07:39:06 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:



Maybe my standards are more lax than yours, but I consider a thread
about Columbus or any other mariner of historic importance to be a
relevant topic in a boating NG.

How do you feel about Amerigo Vespucci?

I always admired Evangelista Torricelli , myself.

Piffle. He was a mere candle to the bright flame of brilliance that
was Tycho Brahe.

Claudius Ptolemy taught him everything he knew.

Um....Brahe proved that the Ptolemaic was garbage.

Ptolemy was a dumbass. :)

How about a Pourbaix day. And we could all go to Subway.

Talk about a brilliant guy...

Thought you would like that one.

Happy Cristobol Colon Day
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
Poor Columbus.

Almost none of what we learned about Columbus back when kids in grade
school turns out to be true.

Fortunately, there are many books that contain factual information.

Oh, and one final thing they got wrong about Columbus. His name. His
name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon.

His name was Cristoforo Colombo, and he was born in the Republic of
Genoa.

In "Christopher Columbus," Univ. of Okla. Press (1987), pp. 10-11,
Gianni Granzotto lists the following information from documents written
by contemporaries of Columbus:

1. Pietro Martire d'Angera (Peter Martyr) was the earliest of
Columbus's chroniclers and was in Barcelona when Columbus returned from
his first voyage. In his letter of May 14, 1493, addressed to Giovanni
Borromeo, he referred to Columbus as Ligurian ["vir Ligur"], Liguria
being the Region where Genoa is located.
2. A reference, dated 1492 by a court scribe Galindez, referred to
Columbus as "Cristóbal Colón, genovés."
3. In "History of the Catholic Kings," Andrés Bernaldez wrote:
"Columbus was a man who came from the land of Genoa."
4. In "General and Natural History of the Indies," Bartolomé de Las
Casas asserted his "Genoese nationality";
5. In a book of the same title, Gonzalo de Fernández de Oviedo wrote
that Columbus was "originating from the province of Liguria."
6. Antonio Gallo, Agostino Giustiniani and Bartolomeo Serraga wrote
that Columbus was Genoese.

Samuel Eliot Morison, in his book "Christopher Columbus: Admiral of the
Ocean Sea," notes that many existing legal documents demonstrate the
Genoese origin of Columbus, his father Domenico, and his brothers
Bartolomeo and Giacomo (Diego). These documents, written in Latin by
notaries, were legally valid in Genoese courts. When notaries died,
their documents were turned over to the archives of the Republic of
Genoa. The documents, uncovered in the 19th century when Italian
historians examined the Genoese archives, form part of the "Raccolta
Colombiana." On page 14, Morison writes:

Besides these documents from which we may glean facts about
Christopher's early life, there are others which identify the
Discoverer as the son of Domenico the wool weaver, beyond the
possibility of doubt. For instance, Domenico had a brother Antonio,
like him a respectable member of the lower middle class in Genoa.
Antonio had three sons: Matteo, Amigeto and Giovanni, who was generally
known as Giannetto (the Genoese equivalent of "Johnny"). Giannetto,
like Christopher, gave up a humdrum occupation to follow the sea. In
1496 the three brothers met in a notary's office at Genoa and agreed
that Johnny should go to Spain and seek out his first cousin "Don
Cristoforo de Colombo, Admiral of the King of Spain," each contributing
one third of the traveling expenses. This quest for a job was highly
successful. The Admiral gave Johnny command of a caravel on the Third
Voyage to America, and entrusted him with confidential matters as
well.

The biography written by Columbus's son Fernando, "Historie del S. D.
Fernando Colombo; nelle quali s'ha particolare, & vera relatione della
vita, & de fatti dell'Ammiraglio D. Cristoforo Colombo, suo pad Et
dello scoprimento ch'egli fece dell'Indie Occidentali, dette Mondo
Nuovo" [English translation: "The life of the Admiral Christopher
Columbus by his son Ferdinand," translated by Benjamin Keen, Greenwood
Press (1978)] is available, in Italian, at:

http://www.liberliber.it/biblioteca/c/colombo_fernando/

At the top of page 4 of Keen's translation, Fernando listed Nervi,
Cugureo, Bugiasco, Savona, Genoa and Piacenza as possible places of
origin. He also stated: "Colombo ... was really the name of his
ancestors. But he changed it in order to make it conform to the
language of the country in which he came to reside and raise a new
estate." (Colom in Portugal and Colón in Castile).

The publication of "Historie" provides irrefutable, indirect evidence
about the Genoese origin of the Discoverer. Fernando's manuscript was
eventually inherited by his nephew Luis, the playboy grandson of the
Discoverer. Luis was always strapped for money and sold the manuscript
to Baliano de Fornari, "a wealthy and public-spirited Genoese
physician". On page xv, Keen wrote: "In the depth of winter the aged
Fornari set out for Venice, the publishing center of Italy, to
supervise the translation and publication of the book."

On page xxiv, the April 25, 1571 dedication by Giuseppe Moleto states:
"Your Lordship [Fornari], then, being an honorable and generous
gentleman, desiring to make immortal the memory of this great man,
heedless of your Lordship's seventy years, of the season of the year,
and of the length of the journey, came from Genoa to Venice with the
aim of publishing the aforementioned book ... that the exploits of this
eminent man, the true glory of Italy and especially of your Lordship's
native city, might be made known."

DR