Boat to interntational destinations? Good reason to get or renew your passport now.
 

Most people know that beginning next January American boaters
reentering home waters from Canadian waters will be required to produce
a passport at a customs office.

The government is about to begin inserting "chips" in the passports.
May be a good idea to prevent forgeries, etc, but there are some
legitimate privacy concerns. It might be possible for
unauthorized persons to "read" your passport information
electronically, and then there's the possibility that the chips might
have a use or two that we aren't being told about (to help fight
terrorism, of course).

Anyway, if you don't want a microchip embedded in your passport for
whatever purpose the government might want to embed one, now is the
time to apply or renew. It's apparently already too late in Colorado..

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/sep...0906idchip.htm

Boat to interntational destinations? Good reason to get or renew your passport now.
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
Most people know that beginning next January American boaters
reentering home waters from Canadian waters will be required to produce
a passport at a customs office.


Nice idea on paper...........not in the real world though. How do they plan
on enforcing this?

Boat to interntational destinations? Good reason to get or renew your passport now.
 

JimH wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
Most people know that beginning next January American boaters
reentering home waters from Canadian waters will be required to produce
a passport at a customs office.


Nice idea on paper...........not in the real world though. How do they plan
on enforcing this?

They have been requiring returning boaters to go through customs since
forever.
They enforce it by putting you in jail if you don't.

Now to be clear, you don't need to report to Customs if you have only
been aboard your boat in Canadian waters and haven't 1)anchored, 2)
gone ashore, or 3) made contact with any other vessel.

In the past, it was common to come back through Customs with nothing
more than a
driver's license to establish your address and your own declaration
that you were a US citizen. In recent years, they tightened that up to
require presentation of evidence
"satisfactory to the customs examiner" that *proves* your citizenship.
Border agents have been hassling Americans returning without passports,
since the only document that a customs examiner has no choice except to
find "satisfactory" is a valid passport.
Most boaters in the Pacific NW travelling into Canadian waters now
carry passports, and the law tightens up to *require* passports
beginning in 2007.

I am 99.9% certain that the same law applies to people arriving by
automobile, train, and cars or buses.

Boat to interntational destinations? Good reason to get or renew your passport now.
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
Most people know that beginning next January American boaters
reentering home waters from Canadian waters will be required to produce
a passport at a customs office.


Nice idea on paper...........not in the real world though. How do they
plan
on enforcing this?

They have been requiring returning boaters to go through customs since
forever.
They enforce it by putting you in jail if you don't.

Now to be clear, you don't need to report to Customs if you have only
been aboard your boat in Canadian waters and haven't 1)anchored, 2)
gone ashore, or 3) made contact with any other vessel.

In the past, it was common to come back through Customs with nothing
more than a
driver's license to establish your address and your own declaration
that you were a US citizen. In recent years, they tightened that up to
require presentation of evidence
"satisfactory to the customs examiner" that *proves* your citizenship.
Border agents have been hassling Americans returning without passports,
since the only document that a customs examiner has no choice except to
find "satisfactory" is a valid passport.
Most boaters in the Pacific NW travelling into Canadian waters now
carry passports, and the law tightens up to *require* passports
beginning in 2007.

I am 99.9% certain that the same law applies to people arriving by
automobile, train, and cars or buses.


I have never checked into US customs when returning from a stay at
Leamington, Canada.

When returning from Canada by car you go through a US Customs checkpoint.
When returning from Canada by boat you go to your marina. ;-)

Passports continued:
 

JimH wrote:


I have never checked into US customs when returning from a stay at
Leamington, Canada.

When returning from Canada by car you go through a US Customs checkpoint.
When returning from Canada by boat you go to your marina. ;-)

Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass the fuel dock. Do not
collect $200. :-)


http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/...asureboats.doc

Passports continued:
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

JimH wrote:


I have never checked into US customs when returning from a stay at
Leamington, Canada.

When returning from Canada by car you go through a US Customs checkpoint.
When returning from Canada by boat you go to your marina. ;-)

Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass the fuel dock. Do not
collect $200. :-)


http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/...asureboats.doc



In San Diego, you are to check in with customs even if you do not land in
Mexican waters. You can check in by phone, but you must check in.

Passports continued:
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

JimH wrote:


I have never checked into US customs when returning from a stay at
Leamington, Canada.

When returning from Canada by car you go through a US Customs checkpoint.
When returning from Canada by boat you go to your marina. ;-)

Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass the fuel dock. Do not
collect $200. :-)


http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/...asureboats.doc



In San Diego, you are to check in with customs even if you do not land in
Mexican waters. You can check in by phone, but you must check in.

Checking in by phone, under the I-68 and NEXUS provisions has become
far more restrictive in the last couple of years and will become even
more difficult in 2007. You will almost certainly need to appear with a
passport to obtain an I-68 or NEXUS clearance, if you can get one, and
you will need a clearance number for everybody aboard. Even when
reporting by telephone, Customs has the option to require you to
present yourself and your vessel for physical inspection at a customs
port of entry- and I think you had darn well better have your
passports.

JimH has been unknowingly violating the law, and it sounds as if he is
under the impression that most of his marina neighbors do the same
thing.

I guess if I were a terrorist trying to get into the US from Canada,
I'd try to land at a private marina in Ohio. Nobody there apparently
cares about customs regulations. :-)

Passports continued:
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

JimH wrote:


I have never checked into US customs when returning from a stay at
Leamington, Canada.

When returning from Canada by car you go through a US Customs
checkpoint.
When returning from Canada by boat you go to your marina. ;-)

Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass the fuel dock. Do not
collect $200. :-)


http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/...asureboats.doc



In San Diego, you are to check in with customs even if you do not land in
Mexican waters. You can check in by phone, but you must check in.

Checking in by phone, under the I-68 and NEXUS provisions has become
far more restrictive in the last couple of years and will become even
more difficult in 2007. You will almost certainly need to appear with a
passport to obtain an I-68 or NEXUS clearance, if you can get one, and
you will need a clearance number for everybody aboard. Even when
reporting by telephone, Customs has the option to require you to
present yourself and your vessel for physical inspection at a customs
port of entry- and I think you had darn well better have your
passports.

JimH has been unknowingly violating the law, and it sounds as if he is
under the impression that most of his marina neighbors do the same
thing.

I guess if I were a terrorist trying to get into the US from Canada,
I'd try to land at a private marina in Ohio. Nobody there apparently
cares about customs regulations. :-)


Checking in by phone is probably more restrictive in Washington than San
Diego. As most of the boats fishing MX waters do not make landfall. It is
only 13 miles to the Coronado Islands and the offshore banks are further
out. Almost have to get to Ensenada to dock.

Passports continued:
 

Calif Bill wrote:

Checking in by phone is probably more restrictive in Washington than San
Diego. As most of the boats fishing MX waters do not make landfall. It is
only 13 miles to the Coronado Islands and the offshore banks are further
out. Almost have to get to Ensenada to dock.

I suspect the laws are probably the same. I never heard of the Customs
regulations being regionally specific, and if you check the pamphlet I
linked for JimH you will see that everything is referred to on a
national basis.

Expect a much tougher time checking in by phone after the end of this
year. It's all part of the war on terror, I guess. If we get all the
border agents spending a lot more time hassling the honest people that
follow the law and report, that should make it all the easier for the
dishonest n'er do wells to sneak across undetected.
That said, it *was* a customs officer that made the stop in Port
Angeles in late December 1999 that snagged the guy headed to Los
Angeles to blow up the airport, or something, on Y2k day.

Passports continued:
 

Calif Bill wrote:

Checking in by phone is probably more restrictive in Washington than San
Diego. As most of the boats fishing MX waters do not make landfall. It is
only 13 miles to the Coronado Islands and the offshore banks are further
out. Almost have to get to Ensenada to dock.

In fact, here's a link that outlines the new customs requirements in
January 2007 for all "air and sea" travel from other North American
countries to the US. Travelers arriving by private car get another year
before the full force of the new regs kick in.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html

Passports continued:
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

JimH wrote:


I have never checked into US customs when returning from a stay at
Leamington, Canada.

When returning from Canada by car you go through a US Customs
checkpoint.
When returning from Canada by boat you go to your marina. ;-)

Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass the fuel dock. Do not
collect $200. :-)


http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/...asureboats.doc



In San Diego, you are to check in with customs even if you do not land in
Mexican waters. You can check in by phone, but you must check in.

Checking in by phone, under the I-68 and NEXUS provisions has become
far more restrictive in the last couple of years and will become even
more difficult in 2007. You will almost certainly need to appear with a
passport to obtain an I-68 or NEXUS clearance, if you can get one, and
you will need a clearance number for everybody aboard. Even when
reporting by telephone, Customs has the option to require you to
present yourself and your vessel for physical inspection at a customs
port of entry- and I think you had darn well better have your
passports.

JimH has been unknowingly violating the law, and it sounds as if he is
under the impression that most of his marina neighbors do the same
thing.


No, I used to *knowingly* violate the law. But that was pre 9-11 and I have
not been back to Canada via boat since then.

This whole thing of checking in is on the honors system and virtually
unenforceable. And we all know that terrorist will abide by the law and
voluntarily check in.........eh?

Passports continued:
 

JimH wrote:

This whole thing of checking in is on the honors system and virtually
unenforceable. And we all know that terrorist will abide by the law and
voluntarily check in.........eh?

No, it isn't an "honor system", and had you been caught your boat would
or could have been seized, you would be subject to fines of tens of
thousands of dollars, and quite possibly face some jail time.

I believe smuggling and/or eluding customs officers is a felony, not a
misdemeanor. You also should have been reporting into Canadian customs
when you arrived in Canada.

If there is no customs office near your marina or between your marina
and the Canadian port, boaters need to sign up for an I-68 or NEXUS
privilege where you make the arrangements in advance to report by
telephone. In my experience it is much easier for a US boat to bet into
Canada than it is for a US boat to get back into the US.

(PS, you might want to be cautious about posting "I knowingly violated
the Customs laws prior to 9-11" in
a public forum).

Passports continued:
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:

This whole thing of checking in is on the honors system and virtually
unenforceable. And we all know that terrorist will abide by the law and
voluntarily check in.........eh?



No, it isn't an "honor system", and had you been caught your boat would
or could have been seized, you would be subject to fines of tens of
thousands of dollars, and quite possibly face some jail time.

You also should have been reporting into Canadian customs
when you arrived in Canada.

I did. ;-)

Passports continued:
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:

This whole thing of checking in is on the honors system and virtually
unenforceable. And we all know that terrorist will abide by the law and
voluntarily check in.........eh?

No, it isn't an "honor system", and had you been caught your boat would
or could have been seized, you would be subject to fines of tens of
thousands of dollars, and quite possibly face some jail time.

That should sure stop the terrorists from coming in.....eh? ;-)

Passports continued:
 

It's a bit futile in my opinion. Both of our land borders with Mexico
and Canada are just too large to really stop a determined person from
crossing them unobserved. We need another way to deal with the
terrorism problem. I noticed this summer while I was in Europe that I
still was able to travel quite freely between different countries. I
passed through a lot of border points but never had to produce a
passport. At one point I was renting an apt about 5 klicks from the
swiss italy border and went back and forth between the two countries
several times a day.

JimH wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:

This whole thing of checking in is on the honors system and virtually
unenforceable. And we all know that terrorist will abide by the law and
voluntarily check in.........eh?

No, it isn't an "honor system", and had you been caught your boat would
or could have been seized, you would be subject to fines of tens of
thousands of dollars, and quite possibly face some jail time.

That should sure stop the terrorists from coming in.....eh? ;-)

Passports continued:
 

JimH wrote:

You also should have been reporting into Canadian customs
when you arrived in Canada.

I did. ;-)

Here's something interesting to consider, then.

The US and Canadian Customs share computer data about arriving and
departing vessels. I was standing in a US customs office waiting to
report and I overheard a phone conversation in which a customs agent
was detailing all of the previous border crossings for a specific
vessel going back about ten years or more previously. What struck me as
odd was that the US agent knew exactly when the vessel entered Canada
over the years- data that would not have been available except through
Canadian customs because as you know we are not required to "check
out".

If you're on the Canadian database as checking "in" to Canada and not
on the US database as having "returned" to the US, the evidence to make
life a bit awkward for you is alive and kicking. This is exactly the
sort of thing that can come back and bite you in the butt someday.

Passports continued:
 

jamesgangnc wrote:
It's a bit futile in my opinion. Both of our land borders with Mexico
and Canada are just too large to really stop a determined person from
crossing them unobserved. We need another way to deal with the
terrorism problem. I noticed this summer while I was in Europe that I
still was able to travel quite freely between different countries. I
passed through a lot of border points but never had to produce a
passport. At one point I was renting an apt about 5 klicks from the
swiss italy border and went back and forth between the two countries
several times a day.


Customs regulations are primarily designed to stop smugglers and
illegal immigrants, (ha!), not deter terrorism. In fact, the primary
mission of customs is to make sure that all goods coming into the
country are taxed.

Passports continued:
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:

You also should have been reporting into Canadian customs
when you arrived in Canada.

I did. ;-)

Here's something interesting to consider, then.

The US and Canadian Customs share computer data about arriving and
departing vessels. I was standing in a US customs office waiting to
report and I overheard a phone conversation in which a customs agent
was detailing all of the previous border crossings for a specific
vessel going back about ten years or more previously. What struck me as
odd was that the US agent knew exactly when the vessel entered Canada
over the years- data that would not have been available except through
Canadian customs because as you know we are not required to "check
out".

If you're on the Canadian database as checking "in" to Canada and not
on the US database as having "returned" to the US, the evidence to make
life a bit awkward for you is alive and kicking. This is exactly the
sort of thing that can come back and bite you in the butt someday.


Hey I am one of those people who like living on the edge. I might even
cross a street outside of a designated crosswalk area and or drive over the
designated speed limit.

The bottom line is that I survived and don't stay awake at night worrying
about it. I doubt that the terrorists do either.
;-)

Passports continued:
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

jamesgangnc wrote:
It's a bit futile in my opinion. Both of our land borders with Mexico
and Canada are just too large to really stop a determined person from
crossing them unobserved. We need another way to deal with the
terrorism problem. I noticed this summer while I was in Europe that I
still was able to travel quite freely between different countries. I
passed through a lot of border points but never had to produce a
passport. At one point I was renting an apt about 5 klicks from the
swiss italy border and went back and forth between the two countries
several times a day.


Customs regulations are primarily designed to stop smugglers and
illegal immigrants, (ha!), not deter terrorism. In fact, the primary
mission of customs is to make sure that all goods coming into the
country are taxed.

Not according to their website. http://www.customs.gov/

Passports continued:
 

JimH wrote:


Not according to their website. http://www.customs.gov/

According to tradition. We have had the Customs service since the
1700's.
It has only been the last few years when we have felt that it was
suddenly important to wrap up all sorts of agencies into a
super-organization called Homeland Security.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised to discover the mission statement of US
Customs has been tweaked a bit in order to keep the "code orange"
factor up as high as possible.

As a matter of fact, even the USCG started off as an agency to collect
taxes and tarrifs.
(Revenue cutters).

Passports continued:
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

Customs regulations are primarily designed to stop smugglers and
mission of customs is to make sure that all goods coming into the
country are taxed.


Not according to their website. http://www.customs.gov/



According to tradition. We have had the Customs service since the
1700's.

As a matter of fact, even the USCG started off as an agency to collect
taxes and tarrifs.
(Revenue cutters).


We are talking about today Chuck, not the 1700's.