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what would you do 454 or 502
Hi all
I have a 40' searay that needs engines. Currently it has 454's If this were your boat, would you re-do the existing 454's and beef them up a little? Or put a pair of bigger 502's in it THanks Mark |
what would you do 454 or 502
Depends on your needs and what you are willing to spend. Is it all
about going fast for you or are you just cruising with it? Do you care about the fuel costs. Is the rest of the boat worth the engine investment? You most economical route is a couple rebuilt 454 bare long blocks. They can be had pretty reasonably and obviousy will bolt right in. You can reuse the intakes, carbs and the rest of the external stuff. You probably want to replace the exhaust manifolds and risers too while you have them out. Unless they are recently new. Imho your current set up is a gas hog. I suspect that for not a whole lot more than the 502's you could be looking at a pair of diesels. And they would last several times longer that any gas engine. But that would presume the boat is in good shape and you're going to keep it for a while. If it's all about going fast and you don't mind paying the extra bucks I'd go 502's. To really get the advantage you probably want to go with bigger carbs too. So it wil be an even bigger gas hog :-) Big gus wrote: Hi all I have a 40' searay that needs engines. Currently it has 454's If this were your boat, would you re-do the existing 454's and beef them up a little? Or put a pair of bigger 502's in it THanks Mark |
what would you do 454 or 502
On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 05:43:24 -0400, Big gus
wrote: Hi all I have a 40' searay that needs engines. Currently it has 454's If this were your boat, would you re-do the existing 454's and beef them up a little? Or put a pair of bigger 502's in it 40 feet is pretty big for gas engines but if you are committed to that plan, consider the 496 MAG or HO over the 502s. One of my neighbors who really knows engines says that the fuel injected 496s offer better economy, performance and durability. He could have had anything he wanted on his own boat and chose the 496 MAGs. |
what would you do 454 or 502
Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 05:43:24 -0400, Big gus wrote: Hi all I have a 40' searay that needs engines. Currently it has 454's If this were your boat, would you re-do the existing 454's and beef them up a little? Or put a pair of bigger 502's in it 40 feet is pretty big for gas engines but if you are committed to that plan, consider the 496 MAG or HO over the 502s. One of my neighbors who really knows engines says that the fuel injected 496s offer better economy, performance and durability. He could have had anything he wanted on his own boat and chose the 496 MAGs. Depending on just how much money your looking to spend, you might want to consider diesel conversion. Now I know it will be more expensive, and more involved, but you'll end up with a faster boat that burns less fuel (less expensive fuel as well, ballpark figure of about ten gallons less an hour, maybe more), and the engines will last a lot longer. On top of that the boat will be worth a lot more when it comes time to sell it, and will be a lot easier to get rid of. It can't hurt to check it out, if it's too much, go back to plan A. |
what would you do 454 or 502
as tim allen would say
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH AHHHHHHHHHHHHA AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 10:27:55 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 05:43:24 -0400, Big gus wrote: Hi all I have a 40' searay that needs engines. Currently it has 454's If this were your boat, would you re-do the existing 454's and beef them up a little? Or put a pair of bigger 502's in it Why stop there? As long as you are thinking retrofit, go with helicopter turbines and jet drive. |
what would you do 454 or 502
Gene Kearns wrote in message ... On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 05:43:24 -0400, Big gus wrote: Hi all I have a 40' searay that needs engines. Currently it has 454's If this were your boat, would you re-do the existing 454's and beef them up a little? Or put a pair of bigger 502's in it THanks Mark Neither. Repower with diesels.... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/ ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- What is the cost of a pair of diesels that will give comparable speed as a pair of 7.4L gasoline engines? |
what would you do 454 or 502
" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message ... Gene Kearns wrote in message ... On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 05:43:24 -0400, Big gus wrote: Hi all I have a 40' searay that needs engines. Currently it has 454's If this were your boat, would you re-do the existing 454's and beef them up a little? Or put a pair of bigger 502's in it THanks Mark Neither. Repower with diesels.... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/ ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- What is the cost of a pair of diesels that will give comparable speed as a pair of 7.4L gasoline engines? BTW: I realize that the engine compartment in this 40 foot boat would most likely not accommodate a pair of diesels the size needed to give comparable speed. I was just wondering about the price. |
what would you do 454 or 502
On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 18:58:37 -0400, Gene Kearns wrote:
BTW: I realize that the engine compartment in this 40 foot boat would most likely not accommodate a pair of diesels the size needed to give comparable speed. I was just wondering about the price. Nah... I think they would fit, but I have no idea of the cost.... lotsa $$$$$s, I'm sure...... When I had the Bertram 33 I got several estimates for replacing the 454s with diesels, typically 300hp Yanmars which are about the same size. The estimates were in the range of 60 to $80K, more if you also replace the generator. Even though the Yanmars are rated 300hp vs 350 for the 454s, you end up with significantly better cruising speed because you can push the diesels harder. |
what would you do 454 or 502
Gene Kearns wrote in message ... On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 05:43:24 -0400, Big gus wrote: Hi all I have a 40' searay that needs engines. Currently it has 454's If this were your boat, would you re-do the existing 454's and beef them up a little? Or put a pair of bigger 502's in it THanks Mark Neither. Repower with diesels.... -- Seriously? Have you thought this through? The OP doesn't mention the age of the boat, but since it's ready for new engines, I think we can assume she's got a number of years on her. Plus, it's a 40' Sea Ray, not a Hatteras, Bertram, etc. No doubt has a gas genset that draws off the same tank(s) as the engine. Repowering both drive engines, including the necessary running gear modifications, instrument changes, plus replacing the genset, all with diesels, would almost certainly cost well in excess of the boat's value after the conversion. Possibly a multiple or two of the value. Sounds like financial suicide to me. If you want diesels, and certainly there's many reasons why you would, just go and buy a boat already equipped with them. |
what would you do 454 or 502
"RG" wrote in message ... Gene Kearns wrote in message ... On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 05:43:24 -0400, Big gus wrote: Hi all I have a 40' searay that needs engines. Currently it has 454's If this were your boat, would you re-do the existing 454's and beef them up a little? Or put a pair of bigger 502's in it THanks Mark Neither. Repower with diesels.... -- Seriously? Have you thought this through? The OP doesn't mention the age of the boat, but since it's ready for new engines, I think we can assume she's got a number of years on her. Plus, it's a 40' Sea Ray, not a Hatteras, Bertram, etc. Another consideration when thinking of converting from gas engines to diesel is the extra weight, especially with twins. I have a friend who has an older 38' Hatteras that originally had big block gassers and the boat's fore and aft balance was designed for the weight of the gas engines. At some point they were removed and replaced with a pair of DD 6-71s. The result was a reliable, but stern heavy boat that cruises at 14 knots max with it's bow pointed up in the air. Trimming with tabs has virtually no effect. We were discussing this one day at the dock (he kept talking about getting bigger engines) and we compared where his engines were located (same location as the original gassers) relative to the hull length to our Navigator engine locations that was designed for diesels. The Navigator engine locations are much further forward in proportion to the hull length than that of the Hatteras. The Hat has two fuel tanks in the stern with a total capacity of 300 gals. The Navigator also has two fuel tanks in the stern with a total capacity of 500 gals, yet the Navigator exhibits only minor bow lift when on plane and the trim tabs work for what they are really intended for .... side to side leveling corrections when affected by strong, on the beam winds, etc. Eisboch |
what would you do 454 or 502
On Fri, 8 Sep 2006 03:52:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I have a friend who has an older 38' Hatteras that originally had big block gassers and the boat's fore and aft balance was designed for the weight of the gas engines. At some point they were removed and replaced with a pair of DD 6-71s. The result was a reliable, but stern heavy boat 6-71s are about 3,000 lbs each vs maybe 1,300 lbs for a 454. That's a lot of extra weight, and is why the Yanmar or CAT 3208 swap is more common. The Yanmars come in at about the same weight and size as the originals. The 6-71s have far better longevity of course. |
what would you do 454 or 502
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message Some have mentioned diesels - I'm not convinced that diesels would make your boat faster, but they will be more efficient. On a per hour basis, perhaps, but in a boat that size I doubt if the changeover cost would be recovered within his grandson's lifetime. |
what would you do 454 or 502
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 06:30:13 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 05:43:24 -0400, Big gus wrote: Hi all I have a 40' searay that needs engines. Currently it has 454's If this were your boat, would you re-do the existing 454's and beef them up a little? Or put a pair of bigger 502's in it Why stop there? As long as you are thinking retrofit, go with helicopter turbines and jet drive. How about nuclear? For that sort of barge, you need big power. I thought of that, but the reactor would be bigger than the boat. Unless it was cold fusion. Of course we'll never see cold fusion while a Republican is President because as we all know, cold fusion works but is being suppressed by Big Oil and Energy who own all the Republicans. It's about time. We've been waiting for you to embrace reality. "The matter/anti-matter transducer is givin us a wee bit o' trouble again captain" Chief Engineer Scott to Admiral Kirk |
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