never discussed before
 

hi paddlers ~~~ so, what's never been discussed here before? ~~~ al k

never discussed before
 

Politics....and DON'T start! :-)


"Al K" wrote in message
...
hi paddlers ~~~ so, what's never been discussed here before? ~~~ al k

never discussed before
 

Al K wrote:
hi paddlers ~~~ so, what's never been discussed here before? ~~~ al k

I took that as a serious challenge and used Google to search past
discussions in this group. The only thing I could think of related to
paddling that doesn't appear to have been discussed is "water changes"
for outrigger relay races. I have to confess that I'm a novice paddler
so there are probably a lot of topics that escape me. :-)

So, anyone out there with some good advice for water changes?

never discussed before
 

Al K wrote:
hi paddlers ~~~ so, what's never been discussed here before? ~~~ al k

Al, you've been around here long enough to remember a lot of topics,
what do you think was never discussed on RBP?

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

never discussed before
 

Hi Wilko, Paddlers,

When BoaterTalk came into being, it seemed clear to me that RBP was going to
be replaced as the main world ww kayaking forum. It's fun to see that a few
of us old timers still visit here, as the simple text format is a nice
relief from the great video graphics of web-based forums, which I like also.
Have we discussed BoaterTalk versus RPB here to any depth?

Being both a whitewater and sea kayaker, which I believe you are also Wilko,
I don't recall benefits of each type of kayaking to the other being
discussed. I began as a sea kayaker and then got into ww, where I learned
more about strokes, rolling, currents, waves, holes, etc. in 6 months than
I did in about 5 years of sea kayaking. I like both ww and sea kayaking, and
sea canoeing for fishing and paddling with another person in boat.

What do you think might be interesting to discuss here?

Al K

"Wilko" wrote in message
...
Al K wrote:
hi paddlers ~~~ so, what's never been discussed here before? ~~~ al k

Al, you've been around here long enough to remember a lot of topics, what
do you think was never discussed on RBP?

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

never discussed before
 

Al K wrote:
Hi Wilko, Paddlers,

When BoaterTalk came into being, it seemed clear to me that RBP was going to
be replaced as the main world ww kayaking forum. It's fun to see that a few
of us old timers still visit here, as the simple text format is a nice
relief from the great video graphics of web-based forums, which I like also.
Have we discussed BoaterTalk versus RPB here to any depth?

RBP vs BT has been discussed several times to my knowledge, although I'm
not sure if that was more on BT (I think that there's a pretty strong
anti-RBP crowd there) than on RBP.

I do hang out on BT as well, although the frequency changes.

Being both a whitewater and sea kayaker, which I believe you are also Wilko,

Nah, I'm a whitewater paddler, who accidentally got interested in
paddling and surfing in the sea surf, and who playboats because there's
not always moving water to paddle around here. I did paddle a sea kayak
twice and I know how to navigate, but that's about it... :-)

I just remember that I surprised the sea kayakers I was with the first
day when sea kayaking by almost immediately rolling the boat after I
closed the spray deck. I consider it to be a pretty normal thing to do
after getting in a boat I don't know, but those sea kayakiners were
positively gawking. :-)

I don't recall benefits of each type of kayaking to the other being
discussed. I began as a sea kayaker and then got into ww, where I learned
more about strokes, rolling, currents, waves, holes, etc. in 6 months than
I did in about 5 years of sea kayaking. I like both ww and sea kayaking, and
sea canoeing for fishing and paddling with another person in boat.

What do you think might be interesting to discuss here?

Good question. :-)

Frankly, I don't feel any need to discuss anything right now: I've seen
a lot of discussions pass by. After seeing one question or topic started
for the umptieth time, I'm just not that interested about participating
in it any more.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

never discussed before
 

Al K wrote:

What do you think might be interesting to discuss here?

Suggestions for people like me who enjoy fla****er (AKA "sea") kayaking
but can't stand the smell of the ocean.

never discussed before
 

Bill Tuthill wrote:
Al K wrote:
What do you think might be interesting to discuss here?

Suggestions for people like me who enjoy fla****er (AKA "sea") kayaking
but can't stand the smell of the ocean.


Sjeez Bill, you actually enjoy running fla****er in your ducky?


;-)


--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

never discussed before
 

Wilko wrote:

Sjeez Bill, you actually enjoy running fla****er in your ducky?

Compared to rowing a raft into a headwind, it's easy!
I can't keep up with tandem canoes, however.

never discussed before
 

Bill Tuthill wrote:
Wilko wrote:

Sjeez Bill, you actually enjoy running fla****er in your ducky?

Compared to rowing a raft into a headwind, it's easy!
I can't keep up with tandem canoes, however.

Rowing into a headwind is a killer. I once ran the St Louis river at
30,000 cfs in the hope of a quick ride. Everything was great until the
river took a 90 degree turn and went straight east for 10 miles - right
into a 30+ mph headwind running up the valley. If I stopped rowing, I
just surfed in place. The current taking me downstream and the head
wind pushing me back up. Only when I had my passenger hunker down on
the floor and then power rowed with my back downstream and into the
wind did I make any progress at all. It took hours to make the first
possible place to take out. Never worked so hard before or since,
though I have come close a few times. But nothing for the lenght of
time that trip took.

Blakely
---
Blakely LaCroix
Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

"The best adventure is yet to come"

never discussed before
 

Railtramp wrote:
Bill Tuthill wrote:
Wilko wrote:
Sjeez Bill, you actually enjoy running fla****er in your ducky?
Compared to rowing a raft into a headwind, it's easy!
I can't keep up with tandem canoes, however.

Rowing into a headwind is a killer. I once ran the St Louis river at
30,000 cfs in the hope of a quick ride. Everything was great until the
river took a 90 degree turn and went straight east for 10 miles - right
into a 30+ mph headwind running up the valley. If I stopped rowing, I
just surfed in place. The current taking me downstream and the head
wind pushing me back up. Only when I had my passenger hunker down on
the floor and then power rowed with my back downstream and into the
wind did I make any progress at all. It took hours to make the first
possible place to take out. Never worked so hard before or since,
though I have come close a few times. But nothing for the lenght of
time that trip took.

You rafters, you're both just masochists! ;-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

never discussed before
 

"Wilko" wrote in message
...
Railtramp wrote:
Bill Tuthill wrote:
Wilko wrote:
Sjeez Bill, you actually enjoy running fla****er in your ducky?
Compared to rowing a raft into a headwind, it's easy!
I can't keep up with tandem canoes, however.

Rowing into a headwind is a killer. I once ran the St Louis river at
30,000 cfs in the hope of a quick ride. Everything was great until the
river took a 90 degree turn and went straight east for 10 miles - right
into a 30+ mph headwind running up the valley. If I stopped rowing, I
just surfed in place. The current taking me downstream and the head
wind pushing me back up. Only when I had my passenger hunker down on
the floor and then power rowed with my back downstream and into the
wind did I make any progress at all. It took hours to make the first
possible place to take out. Never worked so hard before or since,
though I have come close a few times. But nothing for the lenght of
time that trip took.

You rafters, you're both just masochists! ;-)

On a Grand Canyon trip many years ago (wow, like almost 20!!!) there was
such a headwind one day in Marble Canyon that I rowed with all my strength
for several hours and only gained about 200 yards of river. A big part of
the problem was that the wind kept blowing me into the shoreline eddys and I
would get washed back to the top of the stretch I had just rowed. After
about an hour, I was so exhausted that I let one of the clients try to row.
He got us blown back UPSTREAM from where we had started, and I had to regain
his ground as well as my own. We stopped and made lunch less than 2 miles
from where we spent the night before. It was the second hardest day ever on
a river....

--riverman

never discussed before
 

On a Grand Canyon trip many years ago (wow, like almost 20!!!) there was
such a headwind one day in Marble Canyon that I rowed with all my strength
for several hours and only gained about 200 yards of river. A big part of
the problem was that the wind kept blowing me into the shoreline eddys and
I would get washed back to the top of the stretch I had just rowed. After
about an hour, I was so exhausted that I let one of the clients try to
row. He got us blown back UPSTREAM from where we had started, and I had to
regain his ground as well as my own. We stopped and made lunch less than 2
miles from where we spent the night before. It was the second hardest day
ever on a river....

--riverman

hi riverman, paddlers,

just when you thought your hear it all!

we ww paddlers tend to think ww is tougher than sea, but wind does make sea
conditions as tough as any ww. i've been brought to a halt in my 19'
racing sea kayak by winds and surfed unexpected, large waves on "fla****er".
infact, that why I think "fla****er" is a misnomer and "sea" is a better
term for non-ww.

al k

never discussed before
 

Al K wrote:

we ww paddlers tend to think ww is tougher than sea, but wind does make sea
conditions as tough as any ww. i've been brought to a halt in my 19'
racing sea kayak by winds and surfed unexpected, large waves on "fla****er".
infact, that why I think "fla****er" is a misnomer and "sea" is a better
term for non-ww.

Don't worry Al, I've encountered some pretty big waves at sea during
bofors 8 winds (gale force?), one of which rose in front of me and a
friend for maybe 15ft, both of us looked at each other with disbelief...
Then it collapsed on us, and it felt like being run over by a big truck.
Good thing we tucked in just before it came down. Managing to get
through the break only three times during a ninety minute interval was
pretty tough as well. So I've got a healthy respect for the power of the
sea!

Doesn't mean that I am not more worried about big holes and strainers...
Because I tend to chose to be on the sea when conditions aren't that
bad, I don't encounter the big waves that often any more. I don't really
feel any need to do so.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

never discussed before
 

hey wilko,
i thought you said you weren't a sea kayaker -- i guess you meant you're
an Xtreme sea kayaker.
i agree, most of the time ww kayakers are in tougher waters than sea
kayakers -- just the natures of ww'ers and sea kayakers.
cheers, al k

"Wilko" wrote in message
...
Al K wrote:

we ww paddlers tend to think ww is tougher than sea, but wind does make
sea conditions as tough as any ww. i've been brought to a halt in my
19' racing sea kayak by winds and surfed unexpected, large waves on
"fla****er". infact, that why I think "fla****er" is a misnomer and "sea"
is a better term for non-ww.

Don't worry Al, I've encountered some pretty big waves at sea during
bofors 8 winds (gale force?), one of which rose in front of me and a
friend for maybe 15ft, both of us looked at each other with disbelief...
Then it collapsed on us, and it felt like being run over by a big truck.
Good thing we tucked in just before it came down. Managing to get through
the break only three times during a ninety minute interval was pretty
tough as well. So I've got a healthy respect for the power of the sea!

Doesn't mean that I am not more worried about big holes and strainers...
Because I tend to chose to be on the sea when conditions aren't that bad,
I don't encounter the big waves that often any more. I don't really feel
any need to do so.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

never discussed before
 

Al K wrote:
hey wilko,
i thought you said you weren't a sea kayaker -- i guess you meant
you're an Xtreme sea kayaker.
i agree, most of the time ww kayakers are in tougher waters than
sea kayakers -- just the natures of ww'ers and sea kayakers.

Al, I'm not a sea kayaker, I just surf in the sea surf in my playboat
(used to be in longer boats with more volume) and I've paddled a sea
kayak once or twice.

IMO that makes me a WW kayaker with some playboating tricks up his
sleeve (which helps to get out of some holes and other nasty situations)
and just enough surfing experience to not having had to swim in the sea
for the last decade. :-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

never discussed before
 

Wilko,
I take your word -- you're not a sea kayaker.
I've seen sea kayaks paddled in ww races, as at Great Falls, Maryland,
USA. And most of us have sea paddled our ww kayaks. A ww kayak is far
superior to a sea kayak in sea surf, and I don't even consider using a sea
kayak in surf any more. Heck, I even like to paddle my ww boat (Riot
Hammer -- a 9' behomith by today's ww standards) in the sea when I'm not
going far or fast because ww boats require good paddling technique.
What's more important -- where you paddle or what you paddle?
If I'm in ww, in a ww boat, swimming (unintentionally), in a sea kayak,
or a raft, I consider it ww kayaking . And so for sea.
Al K

Al, I'm not a sea kayaker, I just surf in the sea surf in my playboat
(used to be in longer boats with more volume) and I've paddled a sea kayak
once or twice.

IMO that makes me a WW kayaker with some playboating tricks up his sleeve
(which helps to get out of some holes and other nasty situations) and just
enough surfing experience to not having had to swim in the sea for the
last decade. :-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

never discussed before
 

riverman wrote:

On a Grand Canyon trip many years ago (wow, like almost 20!!!) there was
such a headwind one day in Marble Canyon that I rowed with all my strength
for several hours and only gained about 200 yards of river. A big part of
the problem was that the wind kept blowing me into the shoreline eddys and I
would get washed back to the top of the stretch I had just rowed. After
about an hour, I was so exhausted that I let one of the clients try to row.
He got us blown back UPSTREAM from where we had started, and I had to regain
his ground as well as my own. We stopped and made lunch less than 2 miles
from where we spent the night before. It was the second hardest day ever on
a river....

What was the hardest day?

The Eel river between Alderpoint and Fort Seward is mostly wide open
with forest on the west bank and oak-dotted grassland on the east bank.
But at one spot the river narrows down with a cliff on each side, only
a dozen meters apart. The Eel is famous for prevailing northwest winds,
and we got to this spot in the afternoon, when upstream winds are at a
maximum. The three rafts on this trip took at least an hour, all rowing
as hard as possible, to make it past this spot.

never discussed before
 

And I would have said the section of the Eel below Eel Rock but above the
low water bridge. Years ago, open canoes, flowing @8,000, we had a head
wind that created white caps, and brought the group to a standstill. One
couple mutinied, in the middle of no where, and it took work to convince
them they had to continue. Never saw them again after the trip, and we
don't go down to the confluence anymore.

Carol

"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message ...
riverman wrote:

The Eel river between Alderpoint and Fort Seward is mostly wide open
with forest on the west bank and oak-dotted grassland on the east bank.
But at one spot the river narrows down with a cliff on each side, only
a dozen meters apart. The Eel is famous for prevailing northwest winds,
and we got to this spot in the afternoon, when upstream winds are at a
maximum. The three rafts on this trip took at least an hour, all rowing
as hard as possible, to make it past this spot.