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HELP! - 1979 Johnson Javlin 100hp - Intermittent starting problem
1979 Johnson 100HP Javlin Outboard Starting Help needed!! (pardon the
length - wanted to get all the details in about my experience working this out). Fellow Johnson (and or Evinrude) 1979 Javlin 100hp Outboard owners and OB mechanics, I just bought a extremely nice 1979 Crestliner 15' Open bow boat, motor and trailer. When I bought the boat, it was in the water, off the owners dock, all covered up. Looking at the boat, I did all the preliminary checks I could and the interior was well kept and clean. I came in almost unannouced, I let the owner know I would be by sometime that evening and got there early like 5:30pm right after work. I mention this so that it would eliminate my thoughts that the owner may "pre start" the motor in a warmed up condition when asked to "hear the motor running" before the purchase. Well the motor was cold, I asked the owner to start the motor making sure that it did run ok. Here's how he started it and it seemed normal at the time. 1) pumped bulb to the motor insuring good gas flow pressure. 2) He mentions "I may have got the mix alittle to rich (too much oil)" and if you decide you like the boat to mix it a bit "lean" to help with the starting of the motor. 3) turns the ingnition key "on"; and lifts the small (high idle) lever next to the FNR Control Arm (w/power trim button). 4) the motor "fires" like once and stalls immediately (still cranking); stops cranking; and retrys with the high idle lever about 1/2 way up and this time the boat "fires" and he immediately forces the high idle lever all the way up and the motor is now running fine at high idle - not missing at all; no sputters; nice and clean. He lowers the idle to normal and we continue with my Q&A session about the boat. I'm convinced it runs good as he stated it did - although it was just a bit rough starting. At this point, I'm thinking VIOLA the guys got a slightly bad mix and it's just a bit hard starting. The owner states that these motors "foul" plugs all the time and you might have to change the plugs. That did not make sense to me unless this he's been overdoing the oil every time in the 50:1 mix ratio. DAY1-I buy the boat and take it out the first time. I pump the bulb. I turn the motor on, it fires once (like above), but this time it will not fire again; running the battery down, trying all kinds of high idle lever positions (up, medium, low). The old owner did mention "I had to replace the battery; if that has low juice it won't run very well." So I pack up and take the boat home and charge the battery for 24hrs. DAY2-The battery is fully charged; I have Starting Fluid in hand as well as a can of Marnine CARB Cleaner. I pump the bulb. I try the motor and the idle leaver first - would not fire; I pop the top to the motor and spray a shot of Starting Fluid in each carb (4) intakes; restart and the motor runs fine (the high idle leaver working great controling the low-high idle speed). I enjoy a nice hour on the boat and felt I ran all his "RICH" gas out of the tank (tank indicator was on E) and re-filled the tank with 5gal PREIMIUM + the on the button 50:1 mix. I turned off the key, filled up, and went to restart the "WARM" motor, it does the exact same thing, fires once and will not re fire (still cranking). The high idle leaver does nothing in getting the motor to run. I pop the top and spay the starting fluid in the carbs and BAM the motor fires up and stays running very smooth, not a miss, when I turn the key on to restart. I enjoy the rest of the day on the boat, take it in to the dock, turn of the key and restart it (to check to see if it will restart) and it DID! It restarted without any problems - WOO HOO! Must of got the mix right I was thinking and it's working good; restart problems is gone for good! DAY3-I take the boat out with the intent to work on the motor; clean the carbs w/Marine Carb Cleaner (Merc Silver), and check the restart. The battery again was charged for a good 6hrs prior (to make sure I had a good bat). Going to start the motor the same behavior takes place, I pump the bulb, turn key, fires once, and quits. High Idle leaver does nothing. I get the starting fluid out and the motor starts up great!! I take it out warm the motor, add 5gal US PREMIUM + OIL (perfect 50:1) mix, this time I clean the carbs with the aerosol carb cleaner. Stall the motor with a full can of carb cleaner; waited 15min (per the instructions) and BAM the motor restarts on the 1st try. The boat smokes for about a minute (carb cleaner) and then goes on to run perfectly for the rest of day. So I take the boat in, turn it off and try to restart, and it fails again (just like it did before). What I have here is an intermittent starting problem and I can't seem to shake. I popped the top again, forced on the "manual choke" and the motor "fires" once gain. I turn off the choke, and cannot get the motor to fire even with the high idle control leaver in various positions. It seems this motor needs STARTING fluid always to start? but runs EXCELLENT after that. Could this be a spark plug pbrm - even though it runs great at low idle (will not stall), med, and high speeds? The mix is right. Seems almost like a low voltage condition at startup but need to veryify that or see if any others here have experienced the same intermittent "hard starting" motor behavior and what can be done to get the motor starting the 1st time "every time." Thanks! |
HELP! - 1979 Johnson Javlin 100hp - Intermittent starting problem
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HELP! - 1979 Johnson Javlin 100hp - Intermittent starting problem
Awesome info. Bassman.
Yep I called my local marina mechanic and he also verified that you "push the key" to choke the beast. I never even knew that and I doubt the old owner knew that as well since he never told me about that. I'll give a full report on the my next outing this weekend and will try pushing the key tonight (and listening for the solinoid to click) just to test and watching the the choke as you suggested. I could be out of the woods on this but won't know for sure until I can get it back in the water (this weekend; perhaps sooner). Thank you, Basskisser, I'll keep ya posted. |
HELP! - 1979 Johnson Javlin 100hp - Intermittent starting problem
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HELP! - 1979 Johnson Javlin 100hp - Intermittent starting problem
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HELP! - 1979 Johnson Javlin 100hp - Intermittent starting problem
I'm sure it's having to push the key in for choke.
The older engines with high compression ratio's did like their octane. Early 70's through the early 80's. In fact, for those engines they did have a kit to reduce the comp ratio, change timing and increase the fuel jet sizes so they would tolerate the lower octane fuels. OMC later also came out with a bulletin that they recommend using 89 octane as the fuel choice. I would not really recommend using low octane fuel in it. You don't need to run the high octane but I would stick with the 89 to help prevent possible detonation. Ron wrote in message ups.com... 1979 Johnson 100HP Javlin Outboard Starting Help needed!! (pardon the length - wanted to get all the details in about my experience working this out). Fellow Johnson (and or Evinrude) 1979 Javlin 100hp Outboard owners and OB mechanics, I just bought a extremely nice 1979 Crestliner 15' Open bow boat, motor and trailer. When I bought the boat, it was in the water, off the owners dock, all covered up. Looking at the boat, I did all the preliminary checks I could and the interior was well kept and clean. I came in almost unannouced, I let the owner know I would be by sometime that evening and got there early like 5:30pm right after work. I mention this so that it would eliminate my thoughts that the owner may "pre start" the motor in a warmed up condition when asked to "hear the motor running" before the purchase. Well the motor was cold, I asked the owner to start the motor making sure that it did run ok. Here's how he started it and it seemed normal at the time. 1) pumped bulb to the motor insuring good gas flow pressure. 2) He mentions "I may have got the mix alittle to rich (too much oil)" and if you decide you like the boat to mix it a bit "lean" to help with the starting of the motor. 3) turns the ingnition key "on"; and lifts the small (high idle) lever next to the FNR Control Arm (w/power trim button). 4) the motor "fires" like once and stalls immediately (still cranking); stops cranking; and retrys with the high idle lever about 1/2 way up and this time the boat "fires" and he immediately forces the high idle lever all the way up and the motor is now running fine at high idle - not missing at all; no sputters; nice and clean. He lowers the idle to normal and we continue with my Q&A session about the boat. I'm convinced it runs good as he stated it did - although it was just a bit rough starting. At this point, I'm thinking VIOLA the guys got a slightly bad mix and it's just a bit hard starting. The owner states that these motors "foul" plugs all the time and you might have to change the plugs. That did not make sense to me unless this he's been overdoing the oil every time in the 50:1 mix ratio. DAY1-I buy the boat and take it out the first time. I pump the bulb. I turn the motor on, it fires once (like above), but this time it will not fire again; running the battery down, trying all kinds of high idle lever positions (up, medium, low). The old owner did mention "I had to replace the battery; if that has low juice it won't run very well." So I pack up and take the boat home and charge the battery for 24hrs. DAY2-The battery is fully charged; I have Starting Fluid in hand as well as a can of Marnine CARB Cleaner. I pump the bulb. I try the motor and the idle leaver first - would not fire; I pop the top to the motor and spray a shot of Starting Fluid in each carb (4) intakes; restart and the motor runs fine (the high idle leaver working great controling the low-high idle speed). I enjoy a nice hour on the boat and felt I ran all his "RICH" gas out of the tank (tank indicator was on E) and re-filled the tank with 5gal PREIMIUM + the on the button 50:1 mix. I turned off the key, filled up, and went to restart the "WARM" motor, it does the exact same thing, fires once and will not re fire (still cranking). The high idle leaver does nothing in getting the motor to run. I pop the top and spay the starting fluid in the carbs and BAM the motor fires up and stays running very smooth, not a miss, when I turn the key on to restart. I enjoy the rest of the day on the boat, take it in to the dock, turn of the key and restart it (to check to see if it will restart) and it DID! It restarted without any problems - WOO HOO! Must of got the mix right I was thinking and it's working good; restart problems is gone for good! DAY3-I take the boat out with the intent to work on the motor; clean the carbs w/Marine Carb Cleaner (Merc Silver), and check the restart. The battery again was charged for a good 6hrs prior (to make sure I had a good bat). Going to start the motor the same behavior takes place, I pump the bulb, turn key, fires once, and quits. High Idle leaver does nothing. I get the starting fluid out and the motor starts up great!! I take it out warm the motor, add 5gal US PREMIUM + OIL (perfect 50:1) mix, this time I clean the carbs with the aerosol carb cleaner. Stall the motor with a full can of carb cleaner; waited 15min (per the instructions) and BAM the motor restarts on the 1st try. The boat smokes for about a minute (carb cleaner) and then goes on to run perfectly for the rest of day. So I take the boat in, turn it off and try to restart, and it fails again (just like it did before). What I have here is an intermittent starting problem and I can't seem to shake. I popped the top again, forced on the "manual choke" and the motor "fires" once gain. I turn off the choke, and cannot get the motor to fire even with the high idle control leaver in various positions. It seems this motor needs STARTING fluid always to start? but runs EXCELLENT after that. Could this be a spark plug pbrm - even though it runs great at low idle (will not stall), med, and high speeds? The mix is right. Seems almost like a low voltage condition at startup but need to veryify that or see if any others here have experienced the same intermittent "hard starting" motor behavior and what can be done to get the motor starting the 1st time "every time." Thanks! |
HELP! - 1979 Johnson Javlin 100hp - Intermittent starting problem
DAY4-Tested the press in key "choke" procedure last night. Turned key
on, and pressed in - sure enough there was a "click" sound going on back at the motor. The boat is still on the trailer right now and am assuming the auto choke is working flawlessly (now that I know how to use it) and will fire it up this weekend in the water. Regarding the gas octane I do have the 79 Johnson Javlin 100hp operating manual the previous owner gave with the deal. I'll read up about the octane info and see what that says too. I always ran preimum in my weedwackers(2cy), and lawnmowers(4cy) equip and for me anyways, they seem to start fast, and run good with the good stuff. Based on that I loaded the boat with premium thinking it would help at startup. |
HELP! - 1979 Johnson Javlin 100hp - Intermittent starting problem
DAY4-Checked the 79' Johnson 100hp Javlin owner's manual regarding
octane: "RECOMMENDED GASOLINE - Use gasoline with the following minimum octane numbers - 1) Pump Posted Octane Number 86 2) Research Octane Number Most Commonly Used in the Past 91" and "Automotive gasolines regular-leaded or lead-free meeting these minimum octane numbers may be used; however; best results will be obtained on 35hp and under by using lead-free gasoline" Johnson Outboard Oil / Gasoline Mix: 1 part of approved lubricant to 50 parts gasoline - 50:1 1/2pt (.23 litres) for 3 U.S. Gallons(11.4 litres) 1pt. (.46 litres) for 6 U.S. Gallons (22.7 litres) |
HELP! - 1979 Johnson Javlin 100hp - Intermittent starting problem
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HELP! - 1979 Johnson Javlin 100hp - Intermittent starting problem
I'm betting the problem is solved! DAY5-Coming back from the last time out, I heard a loud screeeeetch, type noise, pull the boat and trailer over to the A&W. First thing, check hubs - yep one is burning HOT and she's (the hub/bearings) shot. I was able to drop the boat, and get the grease and screwdriver at the Ace Hardware a block away. So I grease it up, and limp the boat and trailer home. I get both trailer hubs professionally worked on and installed new with new buddy bearings. I take the boat out. Put it in the water and now, the POWER TILT is not working. I cannot lower the motor in the water (100hp Johnson OB Javlin). 1) the button works on the FNR leaver. 2) the hydraulic pump is pumpin (or it's getting juice) so that circut is good. I press down on the power trim, and the hydraulic motor goes (like normal), but the motor just sits there in a forward tilted out of the water type position. I tried to press the motor down forcing it, and that would not even work. I press up on the power trim button the hydraulic motor hums but the motor does nothing? This is not normal. The power trim always worked, well since I bought the boat a few weeks ago. I did notice, when I went to pick up the boat at the trailer shop, hydraulic fluid "leaking" out of what looked like the right piston that sticks out behind transom next to the motor. There is two of these piston looking things and there was hydraulic fluid about 1 teaspoon, on the cement floor of the guy's shop. And traced it up to that (seal)? around that piston that (One of Two of em) stick up. Looking at the back underneath side of the motor, there looks to be a reseviour next too these pistons things, with a side screwdriver plug type screw. I'll pull that out and put in some brake fluid? I guess you'd use that or hyrdaulic fliud? (same thing?)? Anyone ever fixed a non working power trim that looks and sounds like it should be working? It's has to be low on fluid? Any help to fix this one would be great!!! BTW, I never got to test the auto choke which started the whole thread, next weekend I hope now. |
HELP! - 1979 Johnson Javlin 100hp - Intermittent starting problem
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HELP! - 1979 Johnson Javlin 100hp - Intermittent starting problem
Have you taken out a line of credit for boat repairs yet? Rob Nice jab there. Well no I have not regarding that LOC. DAY6 - Well low and behold - you do push the key in, the motor chokes, and then the motor STARTS every time. Thanks everyone for that info I'm in the water now! Power Trim Update: I filled the reservior with the correct trim fluid and STILL the power trim failed to go up or down. I then took it to the local Marina mechanic and $85 and 7d later, appearently there were loose electrical connections back under transom box where the solenoide is. The mechanic was doing the initial electrical checks to the power trim and found "loose connection" which returned the power trim back to normal use. All were tightened and the motor tilts just like new now. DAY 7 - NEW PROBLEM starts on 100HP Johnson Javlin with "starting the motor." - HELP! Well after the mechanic fixed the power trim, now the motor does this every time it's 1st time in the water cold, it "turning on the key, the starter motor just clicks, turn the key again and it clicks again, after about 20-30 clicks on the key to start, the starter motor starts to spin catching the top gear to crank" sometimes I have to manually spin the starter motor to the "catch" position then hit the key to start, sometimes it'll just click, but the more agressive you get with clicking juice to the starter motor by turning the key to the on position, the more it becomes "alive" and starts to crank normally. I've managed to get the motor to start every time but it's very annoying to have to sit there at the boat dock (with everyone watching) while I click, click, click, click, (take motor cover off), click, (spin the starter motor by hand), click, click, (starter motor starts to move), click, click, and then finally the starter motor "clicks in" and cranks and starts, pushing the key to choke (of course). I'm thinking now I either have a potential circuit problem to the starter motor or a bad starter motor is there any way I can troubleshoot this prior to taking the boat back to the marina for another look? I'd appreciate any insight on diagnosing if this a circuit problem, juice to the starter problem (need voltage numbers and how to check), or if I have a bad starter motor (intermittently failing - how do you check that - other than swap in a new part?)...etc. Has anyone experienced this type of clicking behavior from the starter motor? Thanks! |
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