Hi all,

Am leaving for the Rogue end of the week. Rafts and us in an OC2 , Dagger
Dimension, and our first time. My questions:

I'm a bow paddler recovering from wrist tendentious and don't have much
strength yet. My sweetie in the stern is a great tandem partner and has
adapted wonderfully to my issues. He was able to get us down to Indian
Creek, MF Salmon, last year at 1.9ft @830 cfs without a problem and from
there on I paddled every other day half days without a problem. I will have
two other people who can spell me, one a 13 yr with no paddling skill to
speak of, the other paddled bow for half of the Main Salmon at 1000cfs. It
was her first time in a ww canoe and did great. Currently the Rogue is at
2900cfs at Grants Pass. Am I asking for trouble and should go sit in a raft
for the trip?? I have heard one opinion that the Pigeon Pt. run on the
Trinity River is about the same difficulty. True / false.

Thanks for any advise

Carol Krueger

krueger wrote:

Am leaving for the Rogue end of the week. Rafts and us in an OC2 , Dagger
Dimension, and our first time. My questions:

I'm a bow paddler recovering from wrist tendentious and don't have much
strength yet. My sweetie in the stern is a great tandem partner and has
adapted wonderfully to my issues. He was able to get us down to Indian
Creek, MF Salmon, last year at 1.9ft @830 cfs without a problem and from
there on I paddled every other day half days without a problem. I will have
two other people who can spell me, one a 13 yr with no paddling skill to
speak of, the other paddled bow for half of the Main Salmon at 1000cfs. It
was her first time in a ww canoe and did great. Currently the Rogue is at
2900cfs at Grants Pass. Am I asking for trouble and should go sit in a raft
for the trip?? I have heard one opinion that the Pigeon Pt. run on the
Trinity River is about the same difficulty. True / false.

The Rogue has some rapids that are as difficult as some Pigeon Pt. rapids,
but most of the river is easy and relaxing class 2, especially in a canoe,
which is easy to get going with speed (unlike a raft into the wind).

Another facet of the Rogue is that Glen Wooldridge blew up many rapids
with dynamite back in the 1950s, so there is a clear and easy route thru
everything for even a wood-bottom drift boat. Point'n'go, basically.
Whereas Pigeon Pt. has rock gardens and mandatory last-second moves.

Bill,

Thanks for the feed back. I'll let you know how it went.

So following the camera question, I'll be taking both the Pentex WP1 and
Olympus 740 with housing on this trip, so will

"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message ...
krueger wrote:

Am leaving for the Rogue end of the week. Rafts and us in an OC2 ,
Dagger
Dimension, and our first time. My questions:

I'm a bow paddler recovering from wrist tendentious and don't have much
strength yet. My sweetie in the stern is a great tandem partner and has
adapted wonderfully to my issues. He was able to get us down to Indian
Creek, MF Salmon, last year at 1.9ft @830 cfs without a problem and from
there on I paddled every other day half days without a problem. I will
have
two other people who can spell me, one a 13 yr with no paddling skill to
speak of, the other paddled bow for half of the Main Salmon at 1000cfs.
It
was her first time in a ww canoe and did great. Currently the Rogue is at
2900cfs at Grants Pass. Am I asking for trouble and should go sit in a
raft
for the trip?? I have heard one opinion that the Pigeon Pt. run on the
Trinity River is about the same difficulty. True / false.

The Rogue has some rapids that are as difficult as some Pigeon Pt. rapids,
but most of the river is easy and relaxing class 2, especially in a canoe,
which is easy to get going with speed (unlike a raft into the wind).

Another facet of the Rogue is that Glen Wooldridge blew up many rapids
with dynamite back in the 1950s, so there is a clear and easy route thru
everything for even a wood-bottom drift boat. Point'n'go, basically.
Whereas Pigeon Pt. has rock gardens and mandatory last-second moves.

Hi Carol,

I agree with Bill's asseement that the Rogue is "mostly Class II" but I
would be cautious of Upper Black Bar falls and Blossom Bar. Both have
some manuvering that is required. Be sure to stay far right at the top
of UBB Falls and hit the gap behind Horn Rock on Blossom. I'd also
avoid the "Telfer's Rock" on the left at Blossom Bar.

At 2900 CFS there will be some big waves and holes on some of the
rapids. You will have a good idea what you are facing if you put in at
Almeda Bar and run to Grave Creek. There is no Class III there but
there are some good drops and wave trains. Your first real test will
be Grave Creek Falls (the second III).

Have fun - I'll wish I was there.

Randy


krueger wrote:
Hi all,

Am leaving for the Rogue end of the week. Rafts and us in an OC2 , Dagger
Dimension, and our first time. My questions:

I'm a bow paddler recovering from wrist tendentious and don't have much
strength yet. My sweetie in the stern is a great tandem partner and has
adapted wonderfully to my issues. He was able to get us down to Indian
Creek, MF Salmon, last year at 1.9ft @830 cfs without a problem and from
there on I paddled every other day half days without a problem. I will have
two other people who can spell me, one a 13 yr with no paddling skill to
speak of, the other paddled bow for half of the Main Salmon at 1000cfs. It
was her first time in a ww canoe and did great. Currently the Rogue is at
2900cfs at Grants Pass. Am I asking for trouble and should go sit in a raft
for the trip?? I have heard one opinion that the Pigeon Pt. run on the
Trinity River is about the same difficulty. True / false.

Thanks for any advise

Carol Krueger

Randallh wrote:

I would be cautious of Upper Black Bar falls and Blossom Bar. Both have
some manuvering that is required. Be sure to stay far right at the top
of UBB Falls...

Yup. Perhaps someone could explain why Upper Black Bar looks so easy
from the top (center looks OK, but it is not!) and even from the bottom,
yet it causes so much carnage. Very few rapids have such a gap between
how it looks and how it behaves.

and hit the gap behind Horn Rock on Blossom.

The move at Blossom can't be scouted (without rock climbing equipment)
but it's easy if you know when to start and where to go, so look at
the Quinn Quinn Quinn & Quinn book for the how-to, or he
http://cacreeks.com/rogue.htm

avoid the "Telfer's Rock" on the left at Blossom Bar.

I thought Telfer Rock was the left-side obstacle at the 2nd S-turn
of Mule Creek Canyon. Easy to miss, but potentially lethal to swimmers
without PFD. Save your wrists for Coffeepot, where speed helps.

Hell, I must have behaved; I don't even remember Black Bar. Is it washed
out at 3000?
Brad


"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message ...
Randallh wrote:

I would be cautious of Upper Black Bar falls and Blossom Bar. Both have
some manuvering that is required. Be sure to stay far right at the top
of UBB Falls...

Yup. Perhaps someone could explain why Upper Black Bar looks so easy
from the top (center looks OK, but it is not!) and even from the bottom,
yet it causes so much carnage. Very few rapids have such a gap between
how it looks and how it behaves.

and hit the gap behind Horn Rock on Blossom.

The move at Blossom can't be scouted (without rock climbing equipment)
but it's easy if you know when to start and where to go, so look at
the Quinn Quinn Quinn & Quinn book for the how-to, or he
http://cacreeks.com/rogue.htm

avoid the "Telfer's Rock" on the left at Blossom Bar.

I thought Telfer Rock was the left-side obstacle at the 2nd S-turn
of Mule Creek Canyon. Easy to miss, but potentially lethal to swimmers
without PFD. Save your wrists for Coffeepot, where speed helps.

padeen wrote:
Hell, I must have behaved; I don't even remember Black Bar.
Is it washed out at 3000? --Brad

No.

Did you run the center? If so, it is possible you were lucky,
and missed one of the many piddler rocks that could cause a flip.
The far-right and next-to-far-right channels are clean.

Coffee Pot does wash out at higher flows, and percolation lessens
at lower flows. Maximum percolation at 1500-2500, IIRC.

Bill Tuthill wrote:

avoid the "Telfer's Rock" on the left at Blossom Bar.

I thought Telfer Rock was the left-side obstacle at the 2nd S-turn
of Mule Creek Canyon. Easy to miss, but potentially lethal to swimmers
without PFD. Save your wrists for Coffeepot, where speed helps.

You are right Bill. Telfer's is in the last of the S-Turns in Mule
Creek Canyon - Above Coffee Pot. I think being too far left or
hitting it sideways would mean a sure swin in an OC.

Randy