Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

I'm looking at canoes made in the UK from a material called Corelite.
I'm having trouble finding information on the material except that it
is some kind of foam sandwiched between an inner and outer skin of
some kind of plastic. Dealers are calling it 'the new hull material'
etc. I'm wondering if it's a good material for canoe hulls. Obviously
the dealers will be quick to defend it if they are selling the
product, but does any end-user have any comments on its
durability/strength/practicality, etc?

TIA,

Al D

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All the
sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe from a
dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever. Nothing about
Brits, but they're 3K miles from here and you can't even make it a road
trip. The Brighton Canoes price seems to be about the same as the
typical ABS canoe in the US.

There are other foam core plastics produced right here in the USofA (see
Old Town Discovery series) and they seem to have the same
characteristics: durable, not very expensive, on the heavy side.
Corelite seems to be a polyethylene (kayaks are made of high density
polyethelene), which is tough stuff.

Steve

Al D wrote:
I'm looking at canoes made in the UK from a material called Corelite.
I'm having trouble finding information on the material except that it
is some kind of foam sandwiched between an inner and outer skin of
some kind of plastic. Dealers are calling it 'the new hull material'
etc. I'm wondering if it's a good material for canoe hulls. Obviously
the dealers will be quick to defend it if they are selling the
product, but does any end-user have any comments on its
durability/strength/practicality, etc?

TIA,

Al D


--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:05:17 -0400, Steve Cramer
wrote:

I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All the
sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe from a
dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever.

I'm in the UK...

There are other foam core plastics produced right here in the USofA (see
Old Town Discovery series) and they seem to have the same
characteristics: durable, not very expensive, on the heavy side.
Corelite seems to be a polyethylene (kayaks are made of high density
polyethelene), which is tough stuff.

Yes, the outer skin reminded me of polyethelene (rather than ABS,
which I think is harder).

Al D

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

Al D wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:05:17 -0400, Steve Cramer
wrote:

I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All the
sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe from a
dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever.

I'm in the UK...

Oh, sorry, my mistake. I know this is an international newsgroup and
all, but somewhere in your original posts I got the idea you were in New
York, Long Island maybe. Looking back, I see you once actually said
"I'll be canoeing along the South Coast of England." Duh. I really can
read. Really.

So anyhow, you'll be in the position to tell USAns what this Corelite
stuff is, as soon as you find out, 'cause I don't think there's any of
it over here. Or at least Google doesn't seem to know about it.

Although...and this will show how old I am, Hydra used to sell kayaks
made of a foam core polyethylene back in the 80's and early 90's. They
called it HardHull.

There are other foam core plastics produced right here in the USofA (see
Old Town Discovery series) and they seem to have the same
characteristics: durable, not very expensive, on the heavy side.
Corelite seems to be a polyethylene (kayaks are made of high density
polyethelene), which is tough stuff.

Yes, the outer skin reminded me of polyethelene (rather than ABS,
which I think is harder).

Steve

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

Steve Cramer wrote in news:VzZmg.440$M_7.289
@fe02.lga:

I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All the
sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe from a
dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever. Nothing about
Brits, but they're 3K miles from here and you can't even make it a road
trip.

That certainly hasn't seemed to influence the popularity of VCP (or whatever
they're called now), NDK, or P&H kayaks in the U.S.

Personally, I'm always a bit leary of new composite layups touted as the
latest thing since sliced bread since the technology has been proven. Given
that the lifespan of a kayak can easily surpass ten years (my glass VCP
Skerray is 17 years old and still paddles quite nicely) I'd be pretty ****ed
if I bought a new kayak only to find out that the hot new composite layup
delaminates after a couple of years.

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

Steve Cramer wrote in
:

Al D wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:05:17 -0400, Steve Cramer
wrote:

I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All
the sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe
from a dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever.

I'm in the UK...

Oh, sorry, my mistake. I know this is an international newsgroup and
all, but somewhere in your original posts I got the idea you were in
New York, Long Island maybe. Looking back, I see you once actually said
"I'll be canoeing along the South Coast of England." Duh. I really can
read. Really.

So anyhow, you'll be in the position to tell USAns what this Corelite
stuff is, as soon as you find out, 'cause I don't think there's any of
it over here. Or at least Google doesn't seem to know about it.

Although...and this will show how old I am, Hydra used to sell kayaks
made of a foam core polyethylene back in the 80's and early 90's. They
called it HardHull.


I believe that there were also a few Old Town kayak models that used a
polyethelene foam core layup.

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

John Fereira wrote:
Steve Cramer wrote in news:VzZmg.440$M_7.289
@fe02.lga:

I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All the
sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe from a
dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever. Nothing about
Brits, but they're 3K miles from here and you can't even make it a road
trip.

That certainly hasn't seemed to influence the popularity of VCP (or whatever
they're called now), NDK, or P&H kayaks in the U.S.

Yeah, but we buy them from a US dealer, not Brighton Canoe. All of the
sites talking about Corelight seem to be retailers. Not that you
couldn't buy an 80# canoe from Brighton Canoe, I just think it wouldn't
be a great idea.

I own one car built in Germany and another built in Japan, but I didn't
buy them from a German or Japanese retail dealer, I bought them from the
dealer across town.

Steve

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:13:12 GMT, John Fereira
wrote:

Steve Cramer wrote in news:VzZmg.440$M_7.289
:

I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All the
sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe from a
dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever. Nothing about
Brits, but they're 3K miles from here and you can't even make it a road
trip.

That certainly hasn't seemed to influence the popularity of VCP (or whatever
they're called now), NDK, or P&H kayaks in the U.S.

Personally, I'm always a bit leary of new composite layups touted as the
latest thing since sliced bread since the technology has been proven. Given
that the lifespan of a kayak can easily surpass ten years (my glass VCP
Skerray is 17 years old and still paddles quite nicely) I'd be pretty ****ed
if I bought a new kayak only to find out that the hot new composite layup
delaminates after a couple of years.

Thanks for the input. The danger of delaminating hadn't occurred to
me. What I am mostly concerned about is that the outer skin of plastic
is quite thin, I'm told... (thinner than on a canoe made of solid
plastic) - so I am worried about that outer skin wearing through,
after beaching the canoe enough times on shingle. That polyethelene
plastic (if that's what it is) seems very prone to deep scratching.

I'm also concerned about the inner core of foam being crushable, say,
when a heavy person steps into the canoe while it's on dry land.

But it's a relief to hear that such laminates have been in use in the
US for years. That suggests to me they must be suitable and reliable.

Al D

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:06:41 -0400, Steve Cramer
wrote:

Although...and this will show how old I am, Hydra used to sell kayaks
made of a foam core polyethylene back in the 80's and early 90's. They
called it HardHull.

Thanks for the info. I recall hearing about canoes (not sure of the
country of manufacture) made of a material called Royalex, which also
sounded like what we are talking about.

It's the thickness of the outer skin that concerns me more than
anything. (How much underside scratching it will take, etc.)

Al D

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:05:17 -0400, Steve Cramer
wrote:

Corelite seems to be a polyethylene (kayaks are made of high density
polyethelene), which is tough stuff.

Tough in some respects, for sure. However, my impression is that it is
softer than, say, ABS, and therefore more prone to deep scratching.
That's not usually a problem if the hull is thick enough. But I
suspect that the thickness of the outer skin of this Corelite is
probably quite thin. One of the main selling-points of the material is
that hulls made of it are lighter than hulls with similar rigidity
made of solid plastic. I assume they can only achieve increased
lightness by using less plastic.

Al D

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

Al D wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:05:17 -0400, Steve Cramer wrote:

Corelite seems to be a polyethylene (kayaks are made of high density
polyethelene), which is tough stuff.

Tough in some respects, for sure. However, my impression is that it is
softer than, say, ABS, and therefore more prone to deep scratching.
That's not usually a problem if the hull is thick enough. But I
suspect that the thickness of the outer skin of this Corelite is
probably quite thin. One of the main selling-points of the material is
that hulls made of it are lighter than hulls with similar rigidity
made of solid plastic. I assume they can only achieve increased
lightness by using less plastic.

The usual ABS canoe is a sandwich of vinyl, ABS (acrylonitrile
butylstyrene (sp?), and vinyl. The vinyl does abrade, but not that
quickly. It's mainly there because ABS is very sensitive to UV
radiation.

You can run it up on shingle beachs for a long time. WW boaters, who
hit rocks as a matter of course, tend to wear off a big area on the
bottom of the hull. You can add fiberglass or Kevlar armor to the
stems, but for your use it's frankly not worth it. Remember that you
sea kayaking bretheren are running glass boats up on that same shingle.
Pick your boat for handling characteristics and weight. Any plastic
boat is plenty strong for the uses you described.

Steve

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

On 26-Jun-2006, Al D wrote:

Royalex, which also
sounded like what we are talking about.

Royalex, if I have it right, is vinyl coated ABS.

Mike

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

On 26 Jun 2006 09:21:18 -0700, "
wrote:

Any plastic boat is plenty strong for the uses you described.

Hi Steve, I hope you are right. I hope this Corelite stuff can be
classed in that category of 'any plastic'. But if the dealers are to
be believed, it is a 'new' material in some respect. I am reluctant to
trust a 'new' material until it has stood the test of time. I'm hoping
to get some clues as to how well this new material (if indeed it *is*
a new material) stands up to real-life wear and tear.

I would have liked to have asked the dealer if he'd mind if I tried
putting a hole in one of his new canoes with (a) a hammer, and (b) a
chisel, but somehow I knew he wouldn't oblige.

Al D

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

On 26-Jun-2006, Al D wrote:

I'm also concerned about the inner core of foam being crushable, say,
when a heavy person steps into the canoe while it's on dry land.

Some foams are quite rigid and will not crush easily. Just don't let any
400lb paddlers wear spike heels in your canoe.

I have some vague memory of a foam-cored plastic laminate that sounds
like what you are looking at, but, like Steve, I'm having a senior moment and
my old brain isn't coughing up the details.

Mike

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:54:42 GMT, "Michael Daly"
wrote:

Royalex, if I have it right, is vinyl coated ABS.

I think you may be right. I think it is Royalex-Lite which has the
foam core, in retrospect.

Al D

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:59:05 GMT, "Michael Daly"
wrote:

I'm having a senior moment and my old brain isn't coughing up the details.

Please let me know if it does! And thanks for the info.

Al D

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

Al D wrote in
:

On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:13:12 GMT, John Fereira
wrote:

Steve Cramer wrote in news:VzZmg.440$M_7.289
:

I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All
the sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe
from a dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever.
Nothing about Brits, but they're 3K miles from here and you can't
even make it a road trip.

That certainly hasn't seemed to influence the popularity of VCP (or
whatever they're called now), NDK, or P&H kayaks in the U.S.

Personally, I'm always a bit leary of new composite layups touted as
the latest thing since sliced bread since the technology has been
proven. Given that the lifespan of a kayak can easily surpass ten
years (my glass VCP Skerray is 17 years old and still paddles quite
nicely) I'd be pretty ****ed if I bought a new kayak only to find out
that the hot new composite layup delaminates after a couple of years.

Thanks for the input. The danger of delaminating hadn't occurred to
me. What I am mostly concerned about is that the outer skin of plastic
is quite thin, I'm told... (thinner than on a canoe made of solid
plastic) - so I am worried about that outer skin wearing through,
after beaching the canoe enough times on shingle. That polyethelene
plastic (if that's what it is) seems very prone to deep scratching.

A friend of mine has a few canoes in his rental fleet that are some sort of
plastic-foam laminate and a couple of them have a fairly large area near the
bow and stern where the outer plastic layer is scraped off. In this case,
it appears that the outer layer is just a colored layer covering a thicker
layer of some other material which provides structural integrity.

I'm also concerned about the inner core of foam being crushable, say,
when a heavy person steps into the canoe while it's on dry land.

But it's a relief to hear that such laminates have been in use in the
US for years. That suggests to me they must be suitable and reliable.

The point that I was trying to make that while numerous canoe and kayak
vendors *have* used composite laminate construction, not all laminates are
the same. Corelite may actually be something similar to something that has
been around awhile but until I've seen a few boats layed up in Corelite that
are 5-6 years old without any degradation I'm not going to consider it a
proven technology.

Someone posted here awhile back considering a new kayak model that was
constructed with some sort of new composite material. Looking at the web
site it had a couple warnings about prolonged exposure to UV and the kayak
had a "stiffening" bar or something in the hull touted as if it were a
feature. To me, if something is added to stiffen the hull that tells me
that the material it's layed up with isn't sufficiently rigid.

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

Al D wrote in news:ap40a2th2cqpla1pc93al5muav2n3eipvu@
4ax.com:

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:54:42 GMT, "Michael Daly"
wrote:

Royalex, if I have it right, is vinyl coated ABS.

I think you may be right. I think it is Royalex-Lite which has the
foam core, in retrospect.

Actually Royalex-lite is an ABS-foam-ABS sandwich fused to a color
impregnated vinyl outer coating. Here's a site which describes it well.

http://gorp.away.com/gorp/activity/p.../exp032801.htm

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

Al D wrote:

I'm looking at canoes made in the UK from a material called Corelite.
I'm having trouble finding information on the material except that it
is some kind of foam sandwiched between an inner and outer skin of
some kind of plastic.

I am not a trademark specialist but a trademark search showed that there
were 4 companies that had applied for the Corelite TM and all cases have
been abandoned in the US. There were no applications in the UK and none
here in Canada. Corelite is also a name used in fluorescent lighting
applications but clearly that falls well outside the domain of boat hulls.

One applicant in the US was a company called Divinycell International,
Inc which doesn't seem to exist anymore but a company called Diabgroup
(www.diabgroup.com) has a product called Divinycell. Diabgroup makes
core materials for boats with composite structure ranging from
superyachts, through coast guard rescue boats to military attack boats.

Wenonah Canoes apparently uses composite material from Diabgroup in the
manufacture of one of its models. Have a look at

http://www.diabgroup.com/americas/u_...ar/wenonah.pdf


Alastair

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:01:17 -0400, "Alastair D."
wrote:

I'm looking at canoes made in the UK from a material called Corelite.
I'm having trouble finding information on the material except that it
is some kind of foam sandwiched between an inner and outer skin of
some kind of plastic.

I am not a trademark specialist but a trademark search showed that there
were 4 companies that had applied for the Corelite TM and all cases have
been abandoned in the US. There were no applications in the UK and none
here in Canada. Corelite is also a name used in fluorescent lighting
applications but clearly that falls well outside the domain of boat hulls.

One applicant in the US was a company called Divinycell International,
Inc which doesn't seem to exist anymore but a company called Diabgroup
(www.diabgroup.com) has a product called Divinycell. Diabgroup makes
core materials for boats with composite structure ranging from
superyachts, through coast guard rescue boats to military attack boats.

Wenonah Canoes apparently uses composite material from Diabgroup in the
manufacture of one of its models. Have a look at

http://www.diabgroup.com/americas/u_...ar/wenonah.pdf

That's a help - thanks. I'm more mystified than ever now. Someone has
informed me that the canoes sold in the UK made from the mysterious
'Corelite' come from a company called Pyranha Mouldings Ltd. based in
Runcorn, UK which seems to be affiliated in some way with Pyranha US,
Inc. based in Asheville, NC. I will email them, asking for info.

Al D

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

On 27 Jun 2006 10:27:19 -0700, "Oci-One Kanubi"
wrote:

My guess is that the P. Mouldings Ltd is the
manufactring company and P. US is a distribution subsidiary.

That's good to know - thanks.

Al D

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

A link to a tradeshow with Pyranha boats

http://translate.google.com/translat...%3D %26sa%3DG

And from DIAB's own website:

http://www.diabgroup.com/americas/u_..._Marine_TB.pdf,
page 8.

Divinylcell is "...thermoplastic PVC (Poly Vinyl Chloride) and crosslinked
(or highly bonded) thermoset polyurea, or for short, a crosslinked PVC (ex.
Divinycell, Klegecell, Airlite)." For the non-chemist out there, Corelite
looks like it is a PE sandwich with a pvc expanded foam core (divinylcell).
It could be lighter than an expanded PE foam core and the PE skin is cheaper
than ABS--hence, the incentive to use it. Looks like it is good stuff; a
bona fide competitive composite to Royalex from an established and credible
company that knows what it is doing.

PS


"Alastair D." wrote in message
...
Al D wrote:

I'm looking at canoes made in the UK from a material called Corelite.
I'm having trouble finding information on the material except that it
is some kind of foam sandwiched between an inner and outer skin of
some kind of plastic.

I am not a trademark specialist but a trademark search showed that there
were 4 companies that had applied for the Corelite TM and all cases have
been abandoned in the US. There were no applications in the UK and none
here in Canada. Corelite is also a name used in fluorescent lighting
applications but clearly that falls well outside the domain of boat hulls.

One applicant in the US was a company called Divinycell International,
Inc which doesn't seem to exist anymore but a company called Diabgroup
(www.diabgroup.com) has a product called Divinycell. Diabgroup makes
core materials for boats with composite structure ranging from
superyachts, through coast guard rescue boats to military attack boats.

Wenonah Canoes apparently uses composite material from Diabgroup in the
manufacture of one of its models. Have a look at


http://www.diabgroup.com/americas/u_...ar/wenonah.pdf


Alastair

Corelite (canoe hull material)
 

On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 15:08:30 GMT, "--------------"
wrote:

A link to a tradeshow with Pyranha boats

http://translate.google.com/translat...%3D %26sa%3DG

And from DIAB's own website:

http://www.diabgroup.com/americas/u_..._Marine_TB.pdf,
page 8.

Divinylcell is "...thermoplastic PVC (Poly Vinyl Chloride) and crosslinked
(or highly bonded) thermoset polyurea, or for short, a crosslinked PVC (ex.
Divinycell, Klegecell, Airlite)." For the non-chemist out there, Corelite
looks like it is a PE sandwich with a pvc expanded foam core (divinylcell).
It could be lighter than an expanded PE foam core and the PE skin is cheaper
than ABS--hence, the incentive to use it. Looks like it is good stuff; a
bona fide competitive composite to Royalex from an established and credible
company that knows what it is doing.

PS

Thank you! That all seems somewhat encouraging.

Al D