The E-Tec range of OB engines are now getting sold in numbers into
various markets & their ads are a total pain. So some anti-ads are in order.

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster than the first time when they were called Ficht &
marketed in the main by the same dealers/riggers who were then placarded
OMC.

The reasons for holding my opinions of what we say are E-Tecs design &
other problems are many, too many for one short NG post, they fall into
numerous categories any one of which, on it's own, is reason enough to
stay well away from them.

(i) The basic concept of running internal combustion engines with
lean mixtures at power, as opposed to overrun (doesn't happen in
boats:-)),idle or high speed very light throttle cruise (again doesn't
happen in boats).

(ii) The Direct Fuel Injection (DFI)into the combustion chamber (DFI)

(iii) The fuel injector nozzle.

(iv) The fuel injector

(v) The oiling system

(vi) The ignition system.

(vii) The engine displacements.

(viii) The latest version changes.

(ix) The "potential" for union labour to be used to build them.

(x) The "potential" way the manufacture is funded

(xi) The dealers/suppliers involved & the way/amounts they get paid

(xii) The marketing claims

(xiii) The warranty.

(xiv) Common sense.

I'll make a series of posts dealing with each category & if
needs be sub category. Needless to say, similarly I tried to warn you
through this NG about our "opinions" that Ficht would fail, "before" it
had become the disaster it did.

I was viciously & personally attached in this NG by those mostly with a
vested interest in selling/supporting known defective Ficht engines to
consumers. The dealers of course, the union thugs who had the undeclared
invested interest in the funding of OMC & a gaggle of sad simpletons
who, despite ample warnings in this NG, had fallen into buying one &
could only try to deny the obvious to save some value to their boats &
pride to there ego. Alas all sunk along with OMC when it fetched up on
Ficht reef. Save one true fool who went the next step & just kept
claiming he had bought another one every time the subject came up, which
would make him the most stupid person ever into rec.boats, a seriously
sad thing given some of the simpletons we've had & still have here over
the years:-) It's very possible he's just making it up about
buying more of them because if he had, I doubt his brain stem would even
support cardiac functions & remember a heart continues to beat even
outside the body.

Before we go onto series 2 I better thank all those who responded to
series 1, thanks. I note there were no technical objections raised that
warrant my attention & I thank Del for his usual attention to detail
on running engines lean while at power.

I have to say it was a stunning display of the monumental idiot bullies
who dominate this NG, seriously?? are you all that stupid??? is it even
possible??? I mean sure the uneducated Krause & loony Tom no problems
but you too Dick??? I mean you who loves to brag about being able to
operate a simple machine like a plane?? Bet you were scared if a wing
merely touched an uncompressably cloud of water vapour you'd never see
your money again:-) Oh well I guess it's true you can give a man money
but you can't give him brains, nor stop him being a sad lonely git
either it seems.

Special thanks again to Del as ever & as always Del when you need to say
something you do & I get worried you'll ping me as & when you should, I
rely upon it as I should:-) I know it's coming & hope I take it OK, I'll
try:-)

So the second subject is Direct Fuel into the combustion chamber
Injection DFI & I say:

Firstly there are a few of the big engine makers who are dabbling in DFI
Mitsubishi, Merc, Toyota etc but only two 2 strokes & only two OB's
(before the usual rabble of NG simpletons get their knickers in a knot
Optimax is not & never has been DFI, the fuel is injected into an
"additional" inlet manifold & mixed with compressed air "before" it's
injected into the combustion chamber.)

There has not been any great uptake in the use of DFI by any of the
proper engine manufacturers because having the fuel injector itself
inside the combustion chamber gives a complete new set of problems;
Heat,
Varying pressure/temps
Carbon & other byproduct contamination,
Very high injection pressures if any real vapourisation is to be had &
contaminants to be kept off the nozzle itself.
There are few real advantages to be had over traditional port injection.

Save E-Tec; all the DFI proponents use massively high injection
pressures compared to "normal" port injection systems i.e. the Yamaha
800psi which when dealing with petrol is a huge ask.

Time, is a real issue, it takes time for fuel to vapourise, in a normal
4 stroke with port injection the time is available (as it is with
Optimax) but in a DFI the only time available is the compression stroke
after all valving has shut.

In a crankcase transferred 2 stroke the problem is even worse because
the "valves" (ports) are not all covered till the piston is long past BDC.

Another base thing to keep in mind is that the proper engine builders
have tinkered with DFI so they can run lean mixtures only at idle,
overrun & high speed light throttle cruise, when an engine can be leaned
with minimal risk of excessive chamber heat buildup. Even port injection
engines do this defacto particularly at high revs low load, by
recirculating exhaust gas direct back into the engine, which "dilutes" &
cools the charge.

Apart from trying to run a lean mixture by injecting the fuel near the
plug, DFI has no advantage at all & a whole new set of problems.

The latest Toyota material on the subject has a twin injection system,
DFI when required & normal port injection the rest of the time, again
the extra complexity & consumer reliability risks are still not worth
the trouble.

OK so that's the basic issues with DFI in general as I see it.

With a little luck this time the idiots will stay out of the thread???
Their only collective chance of not look even more stupid (not possible)
is to just shut the up:-)

K

Of course the E-Tec series will need to also include a Krause lie or a
loony Tom paste:-) Although I don't think Tom will ever surpass his
series 1 posts on gases:-) He must just bully BS his way through life
how sad.

I expect the abuse from the simpletons & they never disappoint:-)
however John H chipped me for the Krause lie?? It's really sad that John
has rolled over to this low life lying union bully, so just to remind
him who he's kissing up to & how sad & desperately lonely he must be to
allow it. I guess also it's time to wonder why bullying is a problem in
the armed forces & school systems??? when the teachers don't even have
the backbone to stand up for themselves??? Anyone can appease bullies
then deceive themselves into thinking they have a friend John, but
you've gotten into bed with the worst enemy known to all endeavours, a
lying union thug. I better post some of the lies Krause has told this NG
about you personally, I stress as always Krause is lying & any of us who
know & respect John H in this NG will confirm this is just more of the
Krause lies;

You must have run out of high school babysitting jobs

I doubt he's read the classic comics versions of much of anything.

Apparently John has problems being a john. Go figure.

Well, John, since you have no idea or knowledge over the rather peculiar
news "gatherer" I use some days, your opinion is...worthless.

But since your entire world is binary, black or white, I suppose you are
blind to the grey.

That's what happens when you waste your life in the military.

Not after you've wasted your life in the Army.

Gee, John...did you just read about this in Army Times (mustered-out
edition)?

Does John actually teach? I know he's mentioned he subs in the
Alexandria school system, but my recollection is that he has posted that
he mainly babysits high school kids, and doesn't teach. Or was it that
he tries to teach some math classes if he is assigned one, but doesn't
try to teach if he is assigned to a non-math class.

I'm not sure anything about John passes the WGAS test.

Yeah. I'd toss John to the sharks. He seems to have fewer and fewer
redeeming qualities.

John, after all, is a retired military
puke, and the only people in the country who take military pukes
seriously are...other military pukes.

Simpleton.

You really have turned yourself into a lying asshole, John.

As for the rest of Herring's diatribe, he's just being his disingenuous
self. Although he's gotten nastier and nastier the last few weeks. I
think his real asshole personality is emerging, the same one I picked up
on at the marina.

John spent his career in the military and is used to more bull****.

John needs a tad of reprogramming.

It's hard to have respect for an organization that had you in it long
enough for a retirement.

Isn't that why you joined the military? Free health care, free college,
free prescriptions, subsidized housing...such a deal...was it good for you?

Indeed. Probably too complex for John, even though it is the simplest of
newsreaders to use.

John is absolutely clueless about what you are discussing or about the
b.s. factor in military PR.

Drinking heavily again, John?

Whooosh...right over your head, again, John. But, then, you have no
marketable skills, either...

Well, John, some of us have to be open-minded and bright, like me, and
others of us have to be close-minded and dull, like you.

I suppose we have to cut John Herring some slack...he did spend most of
his adult life in the military, where thinking is not encouraged.

Once again, John, you're not worth more than a one-liner as a response.
Go play with your good conduct medal. Did you also get one for attendance?

Naw. John prefers chickenhawk with his fries.

Which just proves what a sleaze you are, because if you did vote for
Sharpton, you voted in the Democratic primary, and since you are a
Republican, you cast your vote as a would-be spoiler.

Do you ever have anything other than simple-minded thoughts, John?

Stupid? You mean like the 12 or so posts you just vomited up here, John?

Only a low-life right-wing failure like you would think so, John

You probably haven't read either book, either, or many other books, not
for a long time, if ever.

John has limited skills. That's why he spent his adult life in the
military.

No wonder you are so ****y.

But Bush's failures matter not to Herring and other flat-line
Republicans like him. They'll vote for Bush not matter what, utter foolw
that they are.

Yeah, reich, er, right. What a surprise...John the Wingnut voting
Republican...again.

Searching contrainer ships is a lot different from carving away at the
Constitutional rights of citizens, but I wouldn't expect a d.f. like you
to appreciate the difference.

Coulter? Sheesh. You really are a bottom feeder.

Here you go, dicquehead:

John H. in person sort of looks like he is in the mid stages of AIDs.
Too thin, large splotches on his skin, hair falling out...

Did you get an attendance award, Herring?

John and his ilk are simple-minded konservatives, cannot think
abstractly, and see issues only in black or white terms. John is an
especially pathetic konservative, as he spent most of his adult life as
a federal employee sucking on the taxpayers' teat, and now works as a
teacher in the public school system, thus continuing his sucking on the
taxpayers' teat. You would think a konservative like John would disdain
a paycheck from the taxpayers. But that would require him to be able to
think in the abstract, and such thinking is not allowed those in the
military.

Au contraire...I believe teaching to be among the most honorable
professions, and always have. But you're not a teacher, John...you are a
babysitter.

More bull**** from you, John? I have the greatest respect for public
school teachers, who work long hours under difficult conditions for, at
best, ordinary pay and benefits. You're not a real teacher; you're a
substitute teacher who has admitted more than once that on many of your
assignments, you don't teach at all, or even try to teach. You do
nothing more than babysit. You obviously missed the irony in my post;
the insult was aimed at you, not the teaching profession. You are a
self-proclaimed conservative and yet, for your living most of your life,
you have drawn your pay from the taxpayers, and thumbed your nose at
your job responsibilities.

If I lived in your town and were a whining slimeball like you, I'd
complain about you in a way that matters. But I'm not pondscum like you
are, and I'd never ever try to cause anyone job problems because of
their newsgroup political statements or leanings.

You're just living (barely) proof of how low your end of the political
spectrum has sunk.

"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
The E-Tec range of OB engines are now getting sold in numbers into
various markets & their ads are a total pain. So some anti-ads are in
order.

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster than the first time when they were called Ficht &
marketed in the main by the same dealers/riggers who were then placarded
OMC.

The reasons for holding my opinions of what we say are E-Tecs design &
other problems are many, too many for one short NG post, they fall into
numerous categories any one of which, on it's own, is reason enough to
stay well away from them.

(i) The basic concept of running internal combustion engines with lean
mixtures at power, as opposed to overrun (doesn't happen in boats:-)),idle
or high speed very light throttle cruise (again doesn't happen in boats).

(ii) The Direct Fuel Injection (DFI)into the combustion chamber (DFI)

(iii) The fuel injector nozzle.

(iv) The fuel injector

(v) The oiling system

(vi) The ignition system.

(vii) The engine displacements.

(viii) The latest version changes.

(ix) The "potential" for union labour to be used to build them.

(x) The "potential" way the manufacture is funded

(xi) The dealers/suppliers involved & the way/amounts they get paid

(xii) The marketing claims

(xiii) The warranty.

(xiv) Common sense.

I'll make a series of posts dealing with each category & if
needs be sub category. Needless to say, similarly I tried to warn you
through this NG about our "opinions" that Ficht would fail, "before" it
had become the disaster it did.

I was viciously & personally attached in this NG by those mostly with a
vested interest in selling/supporting known defective Ficht engines to
consumers. The dealers of course, the union thugs who had the undeclared
invested interest in the funding of OMC & a gaggle of sad simpletons who,
despite ample warnings in this NG, had fallen into buying one & could only
try to deny the obvious to save some value to their boats & pride to there
ego. Alas all sunk along with OMC when it fetched up on Ficht reef. Save
one true fool who went the next step & just kept claiming he had bought
another one every time the subject came up, which would make him the most
stupid person ever into rec.boats, a seriously sad thing given some of the
simpletons we've had & still have here over the years:-) It's very
possible he's just making it up about
buying more of them because if he had, I doubt his brain stem would even
support cardiac functions & remember a heart continues to beat even
outside the body.

Before we go onto series 2 I better thank all those who responded to
series 1, thanks. I note there were no technical objections raised that
warrant my attention & I thank Del for his usual attention to detail on
running engines lean while at power.

I have to say it was a stunning display of the monumental idiot bullies
who dominate this NG, seriously?? are you all that stupid??? is it even
possible??? I mean sure the uneducated Krause & loony Tom no problems but
you too Dick??? I mean you who loves to brag about being able to operate a
simple machine like a plane?? Bet you were scared if a wing merely touched
an uncompressably cloud of water vapour you'd never see your money
again:-) Oh well I guess it's true you can give a man money but you can't
give him brains, nor stop him being a sad lonely git either it seems.

Special thanks again to Del as ever & as always Del when you need to say
something you do & I get worried you'll ping me as & when you should, I
rely upon it as I should:-) I know it's coming & hope I take it OK, I'll
try:-)

So the second subject is Direct Fuel into the combustion chamber Injection
DFI & I say:

Firstly there are a few of the big engine makers who are dabbling in DFI
Mitsubishi, Merc, Toyota etc but only two 2 strokes & only two OB's
(before the usual rabble of NG simpletons get their knickers in a knot
Optimax is not & never has been DFI, the fuel is injected into an
"additional" inlet manifold & mixed with compressed air "before" it's
injected into the combustion chamber.)

There has not been any great uptake in the use of DFI by any of the proper
engine manufacturers because having the fuel injector itself inside the
combustion chamber gives a complete new set of problems;
Heat,
Varying pressure/temps
Carbon & other byproduct contamination,
Very high injection pressures if any real vapourisation is to be had &
contaminants to be kept off the nozzle itself.
There are few real advantages to be had over traditional port injection.

Save E-Tec; all the DFI proponents use massively high injection pressures
compared to "normal" port injection systems i.e. the Yamaha
800psi which when dealing with petrol is a huge ask.

Time, is a real issue, it takes time for fuel to vapourise, in a normal 4
stroke with port injection the time is available (as it is with Optimax)
but in a DFI the only time available is the compression stroke after all
valving has shut.

In a crankcase transferred 2 stroke the problem is even worse because the
"valves" (ports) are not all covered till the piston is long past BDC.

Another base thing to keep in mind is that the proper engine builders have
tinkered with DFI so they can run lean mixtures only at idle, overrun &
high speed light throttle cruise, when an engine can be leaned with
minimal risk of excessive chamber heat buildup. Even port injection
engines do this defacto particularly at high revs low load, by
recirculating exhaust gas direct back into the engine, which "dilutes" &
cools the charge.

Apart from trying to run a lean mixture by injecting the fuel near the
plug, DFI has no advantage at all & a whole new set of problems.

The latest Toyota material on the subject has a twin injection system, DFI
when required & normal port injection the rest of the time, again the
extra complexity & consumer reliability risks are still not worth the
trouble.

OK so that's the basic issues with DFI in general as I see it.

With a little luck this time the idiots will stay out of the thread???
Their only collective chance of not look even more stupid (not possible)
is to just shut the up:-)

K

Of course the E-Tec series will need to also include a Krause lie or a
loony Tom paste:-) Although I don't think Tom will ever surpass his series
1 posts on gases:-) He must just bully BS his way through life how sad.

I expect the abuse from the simpletons & they never disappoint:-) however
John H chipped me for the Krause lie?? It's really sad that John has
rolled over to this low life lying union bully, so just to remind him who
he's kissing up to & how sad & desperately lonely he must be to allow it.
I guess also it's time to wonder why bullying is a problem in the armed
forces & school systems??? when the teachers don't even have the backbone
to stand up for themselves??? Anyone can appease bullies then deceive
themselves into thinking they have a friend John, but you've gotten into
bed with the worst enemy known to all endeavours, a lying union thug. I
better post some of the lies Krause has told this NG about you personally,
I stress as always Krause is lying & any of us who know & respect John H
in this NG will confirm this is just more of the Krause lies;

You must have run out of high school babysitting jobs

I doubt he's read the classic comics versions of much of anything.

Apparently John has problems being a john. Go figure.

Well, John, since you have no idea or knowledge over the rather peculiar
news "gatherer" I use some days, your opinion is...worthless.

But since your entire world is binary, black or white, I suppose you are
blind to the grey.

That's what happens when you waste your life in the military.

Not after you've wasted your life in the Army.

Gee, John...did you just read about this in Army Times (mustered-out
edition)?

Does John actually teach? I know he's mentioned he subs in the
Alexandria school system, but my recollection is that he has posted that
he mainly babysits high school kids, and doesn't teach. Or was it that
he tries to teach some math classes if he is assigned one, but doesn't
try to teach if he is assigned to a non-math class.

I'm not sure anything about John passes the WGAS test.

Yeah. I'd toss John to the sharks. He seems to have fewer and fewer
redeeming qualities.

John, after all, is a retired military
puke, and the only people in the country who take military pukes
seriously are...other military pukes.

Simpleton.

You really have turned yourself into a lying asshole, John.

As for the rest of Herring's diatribe, he's just being his disingenuous
self. Although he's gotten nastier and nastier the last few weeks. I
think his real asshole personality is emerging, the same one I picked up
on at the marina.

John spent his career in the military and is used to more bull****.

John needs a tad of reprogramming.

It's hard to have respect for an organization that had you in it long
enough for a retirement.

Isn't that why you joined the military? Free health care, free college,
free prescriptions, subsidized housing...such a deal...was it good for
you?

Indeed. Probably too complex for John, even though it is the simplest of
newsreaders to use.

John is absolutely clueless about what you are discussing or about the
b.s. factor in military PR.

Drinking heavily again, John?

Whooosh...right over your head, again, John. But, then, you have no
marketable skills, either...

Well, John, some of us have to be open-minded and bright, like me, and
others of us have to be close-minded and dull, like you.

I suppose we have to cut John Herring some slack...he did spend most of
his adult life in the military, where thinking is not encouraged.

Once again, John, you're not worth more than a one-liner as a response.
Go play with your good conduct medal. Did you also get one for attendance?

Naw. John prefers chickenhawk with his fries.

Which just proves what a sleaze you are, because if you did vote for
Sharpton, you voted in the Democratic primary, and since you are a
Republican, you cast your vote as a would-be spoiler.

Do you ever have anything other than simple-minded thoughts, John?

Stupid? You mean like the 12 or so posts you just vomited up here, John?

Only a low-life right-wing failure like you would think so, John

You probably haven't read either book, either, or many other books, not
for a long time, if ever.

John has limited skills. That's why he spent his adult life in the
military.

No wonder you are so ****y.

But Bush's failures matter not to Herring and other flat-line
Republicans like him. They'll vote for Bush not matter what, utter foolw
that they are.

Yeah, reich, er, right. What a surprise...John the Wingnut voting
Republican...again.

Searching contrainer ships is a lot different from carving away at the
Constitutional rights of citizens, but I wouldn't expect a d.f. like you
to appreciate the difference.

Coulter? Sheesh. You really are a bottom feeder.

Here you go, dicquehead:

John H. in person sort of looks like he is in the mid stages of AIDs.
Too thin, large splotches on his skin, hair falling out...

Did you get an attendance award, Herring?

John and his ilk are simple-minded konservatives, cannot think
abstractly, and see issues only in black or white terms. John is an
especially pathetic konservative, as he spent most of his adult life as
a federal employee sucking on the taxpayers' teat, and now works as a
teacher in the public school system, thus continuing his sucking on the
taxpayers' teat. You would think a konservative like John would disdain
a paycheck from the taxpayers. But that would require him to be able to
think in the abstract, and such thinking is not allowed those in the
military.

Au contraire...I believe teaching to be among the most honorable
professions, and always have. But you're not a teacher, John...you are a
babysitter.

More bull**** from you, John? I have the greatest respect for public
school teachers, who work long hours under difficult conditions for, at
best, ordinary pay and benefits. You're not a real teacher; you're a
substitute teacher who has admitted more than once that on many of your
assignments, you don't teach at all, or even try to teach. You do
nothing more than babysit. You obviously missed the irony in my post;
the insult was aimed at you, not the teaching profession. You are a
self-proclaimed conservative and yet, for your living most of your life,
you have drawn your pay from the taxpayers, and thumbed your nose at
your job responsibilities.

If I lived in your town and were a whining slimeball like you, I'd
complain about you in a way that matters. But I'm not pondscum like you
are, and I'd never ever try to cause anyone job problems because of
their newsgroup political statements or leanings.

You're just living (barely) proof of how low your end of the political
spectrum has sunk.




Australia must be giving grants for computers and internet service in the
asylums now.

Eisboch

www.eisboch.com

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 05:58:49 +1000, "K. Smith" wrote:

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster

Aren't there any other dead horses to beat?

"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
The E-Tec range of OB engines are now getting sold in numbers into
various markets & their ads are a total pain. So some anti-ads are in
order.

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster than the first time when they were called Ficht &
marketed in the main by the same dealers/riggers who were then
placarded OMC.

snip

Special thanks again to Del as ever & as always Del when you need to
say something you do & I get worried you'll ping me as & when you
should, I rely upon it as I should:-) I know it's coming & hope I take
it OK, I'll try:-)
Please note that I am taking no sides and I claim no expertise in
internal combustion engines. Physics, maybe. VLSI and signal integrity,
absolutely. But not motors. I do find the subject of new technology
interesting in general but note that the history of internal combustion
is littered with great ideas that didn't work, at least the first time.

I also am not taking any position on etec motors in particular.
Neither do I partake in personal attacks.


So the second subject is Direct Fuel into the combustion chamber
Injection DFI & I say:

snip

del

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 05:58:49 +1000, "K. Smith" wrote:


I expect the abuse from the simpletons & they never disappoint:-)
however John H chipped me for the Krause lie?? It's really sad that John
has rolled over to this low life lying union bully, so just to remind
him who he's kissing up to & how sad & desperately lonely he must be to
allow it. I guess also it's time to wonder why bullying is a problem in
the armed forces & school systems??? when the teachers don't even have
the backbone to stand up for themselves??? Anyone can appease bullies
then deceive themselves into thinking they have a friend John, but
you've gotten into bed with the worst enemy known to all endeavours, a
lying union thug. I better post some of the lies Krause has told this NG
about you personally, I stress as always Krause is lying & any of us who
know & respect John H in this NG will confirm this is just more of the
Krause lies;


I 'chipped' you for the personal attack. The subject of the attack was
unimportant. It could have been anyone. The personal attack detracted from
your post, just as this comment and all the Harry posts detract from this
post. Trust me, I don't need reminders of the personal attacks made by
Harry, et al, in the group. They *all* deserve the same amount of
attention.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 05:58:49 +1000, "K. Smith" wrote:



I expect the abuse from the simpletons & they never disappoint:-)
however John H chipped me for the Krause lie?? It's really sad that John
has rolled over to this low life lying union bully, so just to remind
him who he's kissing up to & how sad & desperately lonely he must be to
allow it. I guess also it's time to wonder why bullying is a problem in
the armed forces & school systems??? when the teachers don't even have
the backbone to stand up for themselves??? Anyone can appease bullies
then deceive themselves into thinking they have a friend John, but
you've gotten into bed with the worst enemy known to all endeavours, a
lying union thug. I better post some of the lies Krause has told this NG
about you personally, I stress as always Krause is lying & any of us who
know & respect John H in this NG will confirm this is just more of the
Krause lies;



I 'chipped' you for the personal attack. The subject of the attack was
unimportant. It could have been anyone. The personal attack detracted from
your post, just as this comment and all the Harry posts detract from this
post. Trust me, I don't need reminders of the personal attacks made by
Harry, et al, in the group. They *all* deserve the same amount of
attention.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

As you say John but I was trying to confirm my attitude to bullies &
simpletons like that one particularly, sorry if I've offended you, of
course if I posted some of this thrown at me by him & few others here
you say you've been getting off light.

I read what Chuck says & will keep it in mind.

All & all I think this went OK just the usual abuse from the usual
bullies but like the first one no actual technical challenges to what I
say.

The next E-Tec Problems one deals with the injector so expect the
runaway william to blow a head gasket:-).

K

K. Smith wrote:


(and wrote, and wrote, and wrote, and wrote)

Do you miss the old tone of this group, K, with everybody fighting and
OT virtually all the time?

One might think so.

Will you pick a different victim with each of your "series" posts? You
were very unfair to JohnH, and an apology would not be unwarranted.
There are more than a few of us who have given you loads of crap over
the years, (in exchange for as good or better from you), but JohnH
hasn't done anything I'm aware of to invite, what (?) 8, 10, 12, or
more personal attack paragraphs.

I'd recommend proceeding with caution. If you get way out on the limb
over the new 2-stroke lean burn approach and it turns out the builders
have solved the technical challenges you will look at least slightly
foolish.

How's the winter weather down your way? Rain much? Probably never
snows, right? Grandbabies doing well? Anything to be happy or upbeat
about? Despite our mutual disdain, it would be nice to think you lead a
happy and well adjusted life.

Karen,

I am looking at a 2004 Alumacraft 17.5 foot boat with a 115 Evinrude Ficht
motor. This boat and motor has about 200 hours on it.
Should I really be worried?
Didn't most of these motors that were bad "blow up" within a few hours when
new? Also I seem to remember reading in this N/G that if they got past the
first few hours of operation without breaking you probably had a good
engine.
What percentage of failures did the manufacturers have?
Weren't the bigger motors, i.e..; 200 hp and above really the majority of
the problems.



OBTW 3 weeks fishing starts today!!!!!!!!!!! No more inspecting new
cars for 3 weeks!!!!
Nothing but wind, water, good friends, fishing, and a little beer ;-)

Fredo






"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
The E-Tec range of OB engines are now getting sold in numbers into
various markets & their ads are a total pain. So some anti-ads are in
order.

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster than the first time when they were called Ficht &
marketed in the main by the same dealers/riggers who were then placarded
OMC.

The reasons for holding my opinions of what we say are E-Tecs design &
other problems are many, too many for one short NG post, they fall into
numerous categories any one of which, on it's own, is reason enough to
stay well away from them.

(i) The basic concept of running internal combustion engines with lean
mixtures at power, as opposed to overrun (doesn't happen in boats:-)),idle
or high speed very light throttle cruise (again doesn't happen in boats).

(ii) The Direct Fuel Injection (DFI)into the combustion chamber (DFI)

(iii) The fuel injector nozzle.

(iv) The fuel injector

(v) The oiling system

(vi) The ignition system.

(vii) The engine displacements.

(viii) The latest version changes.

(ix) The "potential" for union labour to be used to build them.

(x) The "potential" way the manufacture is funded

(xi) The dealers/suppliers involved & the way/amounts they get paid

(xii) The marketing claims

(xiii) The warranty.

(xiv) Common sense.

I'll make a series of posts dealing with each category & if
needs be sub category. Needless to say, similarly I tried to warn you
through this NG about our "opinions" that Ficht would fail, "before" it
had become the disaster it did.

I was viciously & personally attached in this NG by those mostly with a
vested interest in selling/supporting known defective Ficht engines to
consumers. The dealers of course, the union thugs who had the undeclared
invested interest in the funding of OMC & a gaggle of sad simpletons who,
despite ample warnings in this NG, had fallen into buying one & could only
try to deny the obvious to save some value to their boats & pride to there
ego. Alas all sunk along with OMC when it fetched up on Ficht reef. Save
one true fool who went the next step & just kept claiming he had bought
another one every time the subject came up, which would make him the most
stupid person ever into rec.boats, a seriously sad thing given some of the
simpletons we've had & still have here over the years:-) It's very
possible he's just making it up about
buying more of them because if he had, I doubt his brain stem would even
support cardiac functions & remember a heart continues to beat even
outside the body.

Before we go onto series 2 I better thank all those who responded to
series 1, thanks. I note there were no technical objections raised that
warrant my attention & I thank Del for his usual attention to detail on
running engines lean while at power.

SNIP

"FREDO" wrote in message
.. .


Karen,

I am looking at a 2004 Alumacraft 17.5 foot boat with a 115 Evinrude Ficht
motor. This boat and motor has about 200 hours on it.
Should I really be worried?
Didn't most of these motors that were bad "blow up" within a few hours
when new? Also I seem to remember reading in this N/G that if they got
past the first few hours of operation without breaking you probably had a
good engine.
What percentage of failures did the manufacturers have?
Weren't the bigger motors, i.e..; 200 hp and above really the majority of
the problems.



Well, FREDO, you must be very new here to post that kind of message to
Karen.

First of all, do a search on her posts and see what kind of attitude she
has.

Second, before accepting any answer from her, ask for her experiences and
training and any credentials in the subject of FICHT, Evinrude DI, or E-TEC
engines. She will not give you any as she spouts the same "spruik", as she
calls it, since 1999.

Ficht was first introduced in mid 1996. Back in 1999, the then president of
OMC stated in a news conference, that 20% of the 1998 150-175 FICHT engines
with a 25" shaft, had major problems. Karen loves to quote that quote, but
does so out of context. The factory sent out teams of mechanics to repair
and upgrade all the owners of the '98 and '99 150&175 motors. The FICHT was
re-designed and improved in 2000 and was even more improved by Bombardier
when they took over in 2002 and was produced up to a few months ago.

Just think, if the FICHT and E-TEC's didn't work and blow up all the time,
as Karen contends, then why is Evinrude the 3rd best selling brand in the
US? Wouldn't you think that no one would by them if they blew up and didn't
work after all these years.

Right now if you want a dealer to order an E-TEC, especially the mid-range
models, you will have to wait about a month as the demand is higher than
expected and the company is running full output on several assembly lines to
keep up.

From a service manager's point of view (I have nothing to do with sales) the
motors are working well and we have fewer complaints and warranty claims
than we do with Yamaha which we also service. I am the guy who has to talk
to a mad customer if something breaks down and ruins their weekend on the
water, so I know which motors have problems and ones that don't.

Back to your original question, as with any used product, have the motor
checked out by a trained professional and ask for the computer report that
will tell you the total hours and the percent of use at each rpm range,
along with any stored "faults" that the computer may have detected. Good
luck.

Bill Grannis
service manager

FREDO wrote:
Karen,

I am looking at a 2004 Alumacraft 17.5 foot boat with a 115 Evinrude Ficht
motor. This boat and motor has about 200 hours on it.
Should I really be worried?
Didn't most of these motors that were bad "blow up" within a few hours when
new? Also I seem to remember reading in this N/G that if they got past the
first few hours of operation without breaking you probably had a good
engine.
What percentage of failures did the manufacturers have?
Weren't the bigger motors, i.e..; 200 hp and above really the majority of
the problems.



OBTW 3 weeks fishing starts today!!!!!!!!!!! No more inspecting new
cars for 3 weeks!!!!
Nothing but wind, water, good friends, fishing, and a little beer ;-)

Fredo






"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
The E-Tec range of OB engines are now getting sold in numbers into
various markets & their ads are a total pain. So some anti-ads are in
order.

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster than the first time when they were called Ficht &
marketed in the main by the same dealers/riggers who were then placarded
OMC.

The reasons for holding my opinions of what we say are E-Tecs design &
other problems are many, too many for one short NG post, they fall into
numerous categories any one of which, on it's own, is reason enough to
stay well away from them.

(i) The basic concept of running internal combustion engines with lean
mixtures at power, as opposed to overrun (doesn't happen in boats:-)),idle
or high speed very light throttle cruise (again doesn't happen in boats).

(ii) The Direct Fuel Injection (DFI)into the combustion chamber (DFI)

(iii) The fuel injector nozzle.

(iv) The fuel injector

(v) The oiling system

(vi) The ignition system.

(vii) The engine displacements.

(viii) The latest version changes.

(ix) The "potential" for union labour to be used to build them.

(x) The "potential" way the manufacture is funded

(xi) The dealers/suppliers involved & the way/amounts they get paid

(xii) The marketing claims

(xiii) The warranty.

(xiv) Common sense.

I'll make a series of posts dealing with each category & if
needs be sub category. Needless to say, similarly I tried to warn you
through this NG about our "opinions" that Ficht would fail, "before" it
had become the disaster it did.

I was viciously & personally attached in this NG by those mostly with a
vested interest in selling/supporting known defective Ficht engines to
consumers. The dealers of course, the union thugs who had the undeclared
invested interest in the funding of OMC & a gaggle of sad simpletons who,
despite ample warnings in this NG, had fallen into buying one & could only
try to deny the obvious to save some value to their boats & pride to there
ego. Alas all sunk along with OMC when it fetched up on Ficht reef. Save
one true fool who went the next step & just kept claiming he had bought
another one every time the subject came up, which would make him the most
stupid person ever into rec.boats, a seriously sad thing given some of the
simpletons we've had & still have here over the years:-) It's very
possible he's just making it up about
buying more of them because if he had, I doubt his brain stem would even
support cardiac functions & remember a heart continues to beat even
outside the body.

Before we go onto series 2 I better thank all those who responded to
series 1, thanks. I note there were no technical objections raised that
warrant my attention & I thank Del for his usual attention to detail on
running engines lean while at power.

SNIP



Fredo,
Visit a mechanic who services but does not actually sell E-Tec and/or
Ficht and you will get a more knowledgeable answer concerning the real
world problems.

In rec.boats, we have not had any owners complain about E-Tec and Ficht
in many years. That in itself should give you an idea of the number of
problems there are in the real world.
--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!