Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

Still working on this, and there must be something I am missing.

This is a 1987 Mercruiser Stern Drive with a 3.8 Litre 165 Horsepower four
cylinder

I have replaced...

Spark Plug Wires
Spark Plugs, gapped to specs
Distributor Cap
Rotor
Condenser
Ignition Points, gapped to specs
Coil

I have checked and rechecked to confirm the parts are correct for the
application

I have drained gas tank completely and added 10 gallons of fresh gas
I have tried with starting fluid
I have looked down the carb to verify that it is getting fuel
I have verified that the in-line circuit breaker is not tripped

There is NO spark whatsoever. It just turns over forever.

I have adjusted the timing every degree for 10 degrees in each direction and
there is NO spark.

Since I have replaced everything electrical that I can think of, and there
is still no spark, what else is there to do?

It has fuel. It has air. And all the electrical parts are new.

Previous owner inisists it ran fine when parked three seasons ago
(naturally).

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

Have you made sure the deadman lanyard is connected?
Jim
"TSC" wrote in message
...
Still working on this, and there must be something I am missing.

This is a 1987 Mercruiser Stern Drive with a 3.8 Litre 165 Horsepower four
cylinder

I have replaced...

Spark Plug Wires
Spark Plugs, gapped to specs
Distributor Cap
Rotor
Condenser
Ignition Points, gapped to specs
Coil

I have checked and rechecked to confirm the parts are correct for the
application

I have drained gas tank completely and added 10 gallons of fresh gas
I have tried with starting fluid
I have looked down the carb to verify that it is getting fuel
I have verified that the in-line circuit breaker is not tripped

There is NO spark whatsoever. It just turns over forever.

I have adjusted the timing every degree for 10 degrees in each direction
and there is NO spark.

Since I have replaced everything electrical that I can think of, and there
is still no spark, what else is there to do?

It has fuel. It has air. And all the electrical parts are new.

Previous owner inisists it ran fine when parked three seasons ago
(naturally).

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

Thanks for the suggestion.

How do I confirm that one even exists?

It is a 1987 19 foot Rinker cuddy.

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

TSC wrote:

Still working on this, and there must be something I am missing.

This is a 1987 Mercruiser Stern Drive with a 3.8 Litre 165 Horsepower four
cylinder

I have replaced...

Spark Plug Wires
Spark Plugs, gapped to specs
Distributor Cap
Rotor
Condenser
Ignition Points, gapped to specs
Coil

I have checked and rechecked to confirm the parts are correct for the
application

I have drained gas tank completely and added 10 gallons of fresh gas
I have tried with starting fluid
I have looked down the carb to verify that it is getting fuel
I have verified that the in-line circuit breaker is not tripped

There is NO spark whatsoever. It just turns over forever.

I have adjusted the timing every degree for 10 degrees in each direction and
there is NO spark.

Since I have replaced everything electrical that I can think of, and there
is still no spark, what else is there to do?

It has fuel. It has air. And all the electrical parts are new.

Previous owner inisists it ran fine when parked three seasons ago
(naturally).



Do you have 12 volts at the coil while cranking?

How did you set the points gap?

Rob

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

"TSC" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the suggestion.

How do I confirm that one even exists?

It is a 1987 19 foot Rinker cuddy.


Pull the main wiring harness plug and clean, use some di-eclectic grease.
That one plug will cause a Merc to either quit or not start. Also, check the
ground from the battery to the engine. Good luck, Dan

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

"TSC" wrote in message
...
Still working on this, and there must be something I am missing.

This is a 1987 Mercruiser Stern Drive with a 3.8 Litre 165 Horsepower four
cylinder

Get yourself a repair manual (will have the wiring schematics) and a good
voltmeter. Make sure you have power to everything then start disconnecting
everything that taps power off the coil. My boat would start to miss and
then die. Turned out the tach was shorted and grounding out the coil. With
a good volt meter you can work your way though the electrical system. You
may also consider converting from points to an electronic system. The kits
are less then $100 and will take you about an hour (summit racing and Jegs
have the marine kits). They give you a new plate that takes place of the
points/condenser plate in the distributor. We saw a world of difference
starting and much less gas usage. In fact we were able to stretch a 75 gal
fuel tank to last the whole season last year.

good luck,
mark

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

I think you just did confirm that it doesn't exist on your boat. There would
be a cord that must be snapped into a receptacle on the dash or shift
module, and the other end is attached to your wrist. Another odd thing that
could short out your ignition is a shorted tachometer. You could prove that
out by removing the gray tach lead from the coil. When you changed the
points there should have been a little piece of paper in the kit. That is
used to clean off any film that might be on the contact points. Use a dwell
meter to set the point gap and you probably won't need to set the timing.
Another simple trick is to run a jumper from + on the battery to + on the
coil. If it starts you need to trace back toward the ignition switch, which
could also be the problem. In order to get to this problem, you need to
abandon this easter egg hunt and do some systematic troubleshooting. Finding
out weather there is 12V on the coil is a good starting point.
I suggest that you keep all of the tips you have received in this thread.
They might prove useful when you start troubleshooting.
Jim
"TSC" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the suggestion.

How do I confirm that one even exists?

It is a 1987 19 foot Rinker cuddy.

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

I have the Siloc book. I went through the troubleshooting, and I have no
spark anywhere.

Curiously, the wiring diagrams in the book do not show an external ballast
resistor. I have following the wires from the coil and I cannot locate one
either.

The original coil (which I replaced) says the only use it with an external
resistor. I made sure the new coil was for use with an external resistor.

Any clues as to where the resisitor would be?

Would a faulty resistor allow it to crank, but show no spark?

Note that I checked for spark at the points, by pulling the coil wire and
holding it near a ground, and by putting a spare spark plug into a plug
wire.

Trust me... there is no spark.

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

TSC wrote:
I have the Siloc book. I went through the troubleshooting, and I have no
spark anywhere.

Curiously, the wiring diagrams in the book do not show an external ballast
resistor. I have following the wires from the coil and I cannot locate one
either.

The original coil (which I replaced) says the only use it with an external
resistor. I made sure the new coil was for use with an external resistor.

Any clues as to where the resisitor would be?

Would a faulty resistor allow it to crank, but show no spark?

YES.

Do you have 12 volts at the coil (+) while cranking?

How did you set the points gap?


Note that I checked for spark at the points,

This is not how you check for spark. There should be no spark at the
points if the condensor is working right.

by pulling the coil wire and
holding it near a ground, and by putting a spare spark plug into a plug
wire.

That is spark at the secondary side of the coil. You will get no spark
at any plug wire with the coil wire pulled.

Trust me... there is no spark.


You really need to check that you have 12 volts at the coil while
cranking, 9-10 volts in the "run" position.

You will get no spark ever if you don't get this 12 volts cranking
first, and have the points set to open to the specified gap twice every
engine revolution.

Rob

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

"TSC" wrote in message
...
I have the Siloc book. I went through the troubleshooting, and I have no
spark anywhere.

Curiously, the wiring diagrams in the book do not show an external ballast
resistor. I have following the wires from the coil and I cannot locate one
either.

The original coil (which I replaced) says the only use it with an external
resistor. I made sure the new coil was for use with an external resistor.

Any clues as to where the resisitor would be?

Would a faulty resistor allow it to crank, but show no spark?

Note that I checked for spark at the points, by pulling the coil wire and
holding it near a ground, and by putting a spare spark plug into a plug
wire.

Trust me... there is no spark.

Ok let me ask you this... Key on do you see 12v on the positive (+)
terminal of the coil with the key on?

If NO
then hooking up a wire with gator clips from the positive (+) battery
terminal to the positive (+) side of the coil. See if it will start if so
pull the clip off if it dies then you have a problem with the external
resistor. In this case just ignore it, go get a internal resistor coil and
run a wire directly from the ignition switch to the coil. Don't use the
external resistor coil on 12 volts it will overheat. You can in the future
use this new 12volt wire to run the electronic pickup that you will
eventually install in place of the points...... I suspect this is not your
problem as it will not start even when the starter is running.

If YES
there is power to coil with key on then I would unhook everything from
the negative (-) terminal of the coil except for the points (should be a
single wire running from points/condenser to coil). See if it starts and
runs. If so tach is dead or short in shift interrupt system. The way the
coil works is such... the coil charges when positive power is on and the
coil is grounding though the points. When the lobe in the distributor gets
to the proper position it opens the points breaking the ground to the coil
and the power stops flowing in the secondary circuit in the coil. When this
happens it creates a magnetic pulse in the coil that is picked up by the
primary circuit and is send out of the coil as a high voltage "jolt" that is
then sent to the plugs. If the ground circuit is always grounded no spark
or if the circuit does not close (no ground) no spark. I bet this is where
your problem is in the system.

During cranking the starting system will feed a full 12volts to the coil
then when the starter is off it feeds ~10volts to the coil through the
resistor circuit (voltage will depend on the resistor but should be between
7-10volts).

From what I have read in your posts I bet you have a ground issue.

I went though something similar last year with my OMC.

Let us know how you make out.

good luck,
mark

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

I hear ya, Rob, but I don't think I stated things clearly. I meant to say
that I pulled the coil wire and held it near a ground. I ALSO looked for
spark at the spark plug wire. I did NOT do both tests at the same time,
although my statement makes it look like I did! I realize that there will be
no spark at the plug wires if the coil wire is disconnected!

I will check for 12 volts. I would have done so tonight, but my multimeter
had a dead battery. Would I hold the probes to the pos and neg on the coil,
or am I better off using another ground point?

Back to the ballast resistor, I know what a ballast resistor from an old
Dodge looks like, and I know what it does, but I cannot find one in the
wiring diagram or on the boat.



by pulling the coil wire and
holding it near a ground, and by putting a spare spark plug into a plug
wire.

That is spark at the secondary side of the coil. You will get no spark at
any plug wire with the coil wire pulled.

Trust me... there is no spark.

You really need to check that you have 12 volts at the coil while
cranking, 9-10 volts in the "run" position.

You will get no spark ever if you don't get this 12 volts cranking first,
and have the points set to open to the specified gap twice every engine
revolution.

Rob

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

Thanks r_d,

I will follow your directions tomorrow night and report back.

-Tim



"r_d" wrote in message
. com...

"TSC" wrote in message
...
I have the Siloc book. I went through the troubleshooting, and I have no
spark anywhere.

Curiously, the wiring diagrams in the book do not show an external
ballast resistor. I have following the wires from the coil and I cannot
locate one either.

The original coil (which I replaced) says the only use it with an
external resistor. I made sure the new coil was for use with an external
resistor.

Any clues as to where the resisitor would be?

Would a faulty resistor allow it to crank, but show no spark?

Note that I checked for spark at the points, by pulling the coil wire and
holding it near a ground, and by putting a spare spark plug into a plug
wire.

Trust me... there is no spark.

Ok let me ask you this... Key on do you see 12v on the positive (+)
terminal of the coil with the key on?

If NO
then hooking up a wire with gator clips from the positive (+) battery
terminal to the positive (+) side of the coil. See if it will start if so
pull the clip off if it dies then you have a problem with the external
resistor. In this case just ignore it, go get a internal resistor coil
and run a wire directly from the ignition switch to the coil. Don't use
the external resistor coil on 12 volts it will overheat. You can in the
future use this new 12volt wire to run the electronic pickup that you will
eventually install in place of the points...... I suspect this is not
your problem as it will not start even when the starter is running.

If YES
there is power to coil with key on then I would unhook everything from
the negative (-) terminal of the coil except for the points (should be a
single wire running from points/condenser to coil). See if it starts and
runs. If so tach is dead or short in shift interrupt system. The way the
coil works is such... the coil charges when positive power is on and the
coil is grounding though the points. When the lobe in the distributor
gets to the proper position it opens the points breaking the ground to the
coil and the power stops flowing in the secondary circuit in the coil.
When this happens it creates a magnetic pulse in the coil that is picked
up by the primary circuit and is send out of the coil as a high voltage
"jolt" that is then sent to the plugs. If the ground circuit is always
grounded no spark or if the circuit does not close (no ground) no spark.
I bet this is where your problem is in the system.

During cranking the starting system will feed a full 12volts to the coil
then when the starter is off it feeds ~10volts to the coil through the
resistor circuit (voltage will depend on the resistor but should be
between 7-10volts).

From what I have read in your posts I bet you have a ground issue.

I went though something similar last year with my OMC.

Let us know how you make out.

good luck,
mark

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

You really need to check that you have 12 volts at the coil while
cranking, 9-10 volts in the "run" position.

You will get no spark ever if you don't get this 12 volts cranking first,
and have the points set to open to the specified gap twice every engine
revolution.

Rob

The fellow really needs to pay attention to your statements and begin
systematic troubleshooting of the problem.
Jim.

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

TSC wrote:

I hear ya, Rob, but I don't think I stated things clearly. I meant to say
that I pulled the coil wire and held it near a ground. I ALSO looked for
spark at the spark plug wire. I did NOT do both tests at the same time,
although my statement makes it look like I did! I realize that there will be
no spark at the plug wires if the coil wire is disconnected!

I will check for 12 volts. I would have done so tonight, but my multimeter
had a dead battery. Would I hold the probes to the pos and neg on the coil,
or am I better off using another ground point?

Back to the ballast resistor, I know what a ballast resistor from an old
Dodge looks like, and I know what it does, but I cannot find one in the
wiring diagram or on the boat.



You are SOL w/o checking coil voltage, (+) to ground, not the switched
(-) of the coil. You can use a 12 volt test probe or even a 1156 or 904
12v bulb to confirm there is power to the coil if your meter is DOA.

There really is no sense in checking for spark distribution or
generation until you get your ignition primary side confirmed working.

I still don't get the part about checking the spark at the points...

Rob

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

TSC wrote:

I hear ya, Rob, but I don't think I stated things clearly...

.... Back to the ballast resistor, I know what a ballast resistor from an
old
Dodge looks like, and I know what it does, but I cannot find one in the
wiring diagram or on the boat...

It could be inside the harness, or it could be a section of resistance
wire, or a ceramic block type between the terminal block(solenoid area)
& the coil.

Rob

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

"Danlw" wrote in message
. ..

"TSC" wrote in message
...

Also, check the ground from the battery to the engine.

He said it "cranks and cranks forever" - Hehe, can't do that
with a bad battery to engine block connection.

Have him check the "interupter switch" on the shifter cable.

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

It is not a matter of not paying attention. There are two objectives here.

The parts that I am removing and replacing are not a complete waste of time
or money. We are talking about 20 year old ignition components that, even if
they work, I am much more comfortable replacing for the price that they
cost.

So, despite how it appears, this is not a "replace everything and hope it
works" approach. As I checked each of replaced parts I saw things that I did
not like. Such as lots of carbon on the contacts inside the distributor cap,
cracks in the plug wires, etc etc. These are parts that have the potential
to leave you stranded out on the water and warranted replacement. It is not
so much that I really expected any individual part to miraculously solve my
problem.

When I read back through this thread, I can completely understand why you
guys are frustrated that I have not checked for 12 volts yet. Trust me, on
the way tonight I will buy a GOOD multimeter instead of the piece of junk I
use for pinball machine repair and I will follow your advice to the letter.

I really do appreciate the advice.

Thanks
Tim







"Jim" wrote in message
link.net...
You really need to check that you have 12 volts at the coil while
cranking, 9-10 volts in the "run" position.

You will get no spark ever if you don't get this 12 volts cranking first,
and have the points set to open to the specified gap twice every engine
revolution.

Rob

The fellow really needs to pay attention to your statements and begin
systematic troubleshooting of the problem.
Jim.

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

"TSC" wrote in message
...
It is not a matter of not paying attention. There are two objectives here.

The parts that I am removing and replacing are not a complete waste of
time or money. We are talking about 20 year old ignition components that,
even if they work, I am much more comfortable replacing for the price that
they cost.

So, despite how it appears, this is not a "replace everything and hope it
works" approach. As I checked each of replaced parts I saw things that I
did not like. Such as lots of carbon on the contacts inside the
distributor cap, cracks in the plug wires, etc etc. These are parts that
have the potential to leave you stranded out on the water and warranted
replacement. It is not so much that I really expected any individual part
to miraculously solve my problem.

When I read back through this thread, I can completely understand why you
guys are frustrated that I have not checked for 12 volts yet. Trust me, on
the way tonight I will buy a GOOD multimeter instead of the piece of junk
I use for pinball machine repair and I will follow your advice to the
letter.

I really do appreciate the advice.

Thanks
Tim







"Jim" wrote in message
link.net...
You really need to check that you have 12 volts at the coil while
cranking, 9-10 volts in the "run" position.

You will get no spark ever if you don't get this 12 volts cranking
first, and have the points set to open to the specified gap twice every
engine revolution.

Rob

The fellow really needs to pay attention to your statements and begin
systematic troubleshooting of the problem.
Jim.



Get an automotive multimeter that includes a dwell meter. Mercruisers use a
resistive wire instead of a ballast resistor. If it is bad,you will find out
in the course of troubleshooting. There is no need to rip your wire loom
apart to find it.
Jim

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

I do NOT see 12 volts on the positive side of the coil with the key on. This
is using a volt meter. I tested the volt meter at the battery and got the
full 12 volts. Testing at the coil gives me nothing.

Hooking up a wire with gator clips to the positive side of the battery to
the positive side of the coil produces no change. Keeps turning over nice
and strong, but no firing whatsoever.

By the way, I *did* remove the tach wire while conducting all tests.

I changed back to my original coil and performed the tests again. No change.

I am going to have to wait for daylight to continue this saga.








Ok let me ask you this... Key on do you see 12v on the positive (+)
terminal of the coil with the key on?

If NO
then hooking up a wire with gator clips from the positive (+) battery
terminal to the positive (+) side of the coil. See if it will start if so
pull the clip off if it dies then you have a problem with the external
resistor. In this case just ignore it, go get a internal resistor coil
and run a wire directly from the ignition switch to the coil. Don't use
the external resistor coil on 12 volts it will overheat. You can in the
future use this new 12volt wire to run the electronic pickup that you will
eventually install in place of the points...... I suspect this is not
your problem as it will not start even when the starter is running.

If YES
there is power to coil with key on then I would unhook everything from
the negative (-) terminal of the coil except for the points (should be a
single wire running from points/condenser to coil). See if it starts and
runs. If so tach is dead or short in shift interrupt system. The way the
coil works is such... the coil charges when positive power is on and the
coil is grounding though the points. When the lobe in the distributor
gets to the proper position it opens the points breaking the ground to the
coil and the power stops flowing in the secondary circuit in the coil.
When this happens it creates a magnetic pulse in the coil that is picked
up by the primary circuit and is send out of the coil as a high voltage
"jolt" that is then sent to the plugs. If the ground circuit is always
grounded no spark or if the circuit does not close (no ground) no spark.
I bet this is where your problem is in the system.

During cranking the starting system will feed a full 12volts to the coil
then when the starter is off it feeds ~10volts to the coil through the
resistor circuit (voltage will depend on the resistor but should be
between 7-10volts).

From what I have read in your posts I bet you have a ground issue.

I went though something similar last year with my OMC.

Let us know how you make out.

good luck,
mark

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

TSC wrote:
I do NOT see 12 volts on the positive side of the coil with the key on. This
is using a volt meter.

Digital or analog?

I tested the volt meter at the battery and got the
full 12 volts. Testing at the coil gives me nothing.

The coil (+) and... What did you use for a ground(-)?

Hooking up a wire with gator clips to the positive side of the battery to
the positive side of the coil produces no change.

Do you mean that you still do not have 12 volts at the coil to ground?
What are you using for a ground on this test? There always has to be a
reference to ground or we cannot help you figure this out.

Keeps turning over nice
and strong, but no firing whatsoever.

You will get no spark ever if you don't get this 12 volts at the coil to
ground cranking first, and have the points set to open to the specified
gap twice every engine revolution.

How did you set the points gap?


By the way, I *did* remove the tach wire while conducting all tests.

You removed it from what? It should be one of two connections at the
(-) post on the coil. It won't make a lick of difference, though, if
you still do not have 12 volts at the coil(+) to ground(not coil"-")
while cranking.


I changed back to my original coil and performed the tests again. No change.

It won't make any difference which coil you use to get the 12 volts coil
(+) to ground.

I am going to have to wait for daylight to continue this saga.

Let us know!


Rob

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

Digital or analog?
I used a brand new Craftsman digital. Not the top of the line but not the
cheapie either. It was around $45 on clearance.




I tested the volt meter at the battery and got the full 12 volts. Testing
at the coil gives me nothing.

The coil (+) and... What did you use for a ground(-)?

I tried three spots for the negative lead. The negative battery terminal as
well as the engine block (scraped clean) and the negative coil terminal. And
I did ensure that the key was on at the time of the test.


I realize that my naivete is going to show here, but the boat is on the
trailer, and is NOT connected to the truck. I should still have a sufficient
ground though... no?










Hooking up a wire with gator clips to the positive side of the battery to
the positive side of the coil produces no change.

Do you mean that you still do not have 12 volts at the coil to ground?
What are you using for a ground on this test? There always has to be a
reference to ground or we cannot help you figure this out.

Keeps turning over nice
and strong, but no firing whatsoever.

You will get no spark ever if you don't get this 12 volts at the coil to
ground cranking first, and have the points set to open to the specified
gap twice every engine revolution.

How did you set the points gap?


By the way, I *did* remove the tach wire while conducting all tests.

You removed it from what? It should be one of two connections at the (-)
post on the coil. It won't make a lick of difference, though, if you
still do not have 12 volts at the coil(+) to ground(not coil"-") while
cranking.


I changed back to my original coil and performed the tests again. No
change.

It won't make any difference which coil you use to get the 12 volts coil
(+) to ground.

I am going to have to wait for daylight to continue this saga.

Let us know!


Rob

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

I realize that my naiveté is going to show here, but the boat is on the
trailer, and is NOT connected to the truck. I should still have a
sufficient ground though... no?



The battery you are using to crank and start the boat is in the boat right?
If so then it does not matter where the boat is as it is a complete circuit.
If you can crank it then you do have power to the system.



The voltmeter is just fine. I actually use a $4 digital meter from Harbor
Freight when I work on something. Actually, have one in each car and boat
in case of break down.



You have two primary problems.



1. No power to the coil



2. No start once you plugged the coil into the battery.



First-- With the distributor cap off crank the engine a revolution or two.
Does the rotor turn? Is there a rotor installed under the cap (yes I have
done this.)?



1. You are going to have to trace the wires from the positive side of the
coil back to where they go. I suspect one leg will go to the alternator and
one to the starter solenoid. But you need to find where each of these leads
go. Once you figure out where they go with key on test each beginning point
to see if you have 12v being supplied to the wire lead. Find a good spot on
the block and use this for all of your power tests. Be sure to also test it
to the positive side of the battery to make sure it is a good ground. The
idea of tracing the wires from the coil to their point of origin is to make
sure there are no fuses or circuit breakers that are in the system that have
blown or corroded connections that are blocking power. If you do find that
you do not have 12 volt in one of those supply locations then that will have
to be explored. Be advised that you may not have 12v coming from the
alternator as this may be powered only when the alt is actually turning but
you should be seeing 12v on the start circuit. When you have it running you
will have to replace all of the electrical tape that you will remove.



2. Remove the points negative (ground) wire from the coil. With the points
sitting on a flat lobe of the cam (points closed) put your meter into ohms
and test the resistance from the points wire (removed from the coil) to the
plate the points are sitting on (the points ground the coil to the base
plate in the distributor. You are tying to see if the points are really
supplying a ground, what resistance do you get? With this setup in place
have someone crank the engine you should now see the reading on the meter
flip as the circuit closes and opens (both of these can be done with a test
light if you have one). Next test the resistance from the plate that holds
the points to a good place on the engine block, should see a reading of
zero. Next test from the engine block to the negative side of the battery,
should see a reading of zero. If you see a see a reading of 1 on the meter,
this means the circuit is open.



Check the resistance of your coil ignition wire (wire from coil to cap
center) what do you get (your are trying to see if the wire is bad)?



Unfortunately, at this point you are on your own. Just make sure you are
seeing a real ground through the points and try to determine where in the
system the power to the coil has stopped. I really do not know what to tell
you. Hooking the coil directly to the battery should have worked. Because
it did not tells you, you have a problem with the points. They are not
pulsing the coil. And no power to the coil key on tells you there is a
power problem.



I would not get discouraged. Just systematically work you way though the
system. With the closed circuit you will see a reading of zero or close to
zero in ohms. If you see a reading of 1 then the circuit is open.



good luck,

mark

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

Agreed that there appear to be at least 2 problems. The first issue I would
tackle is: The same wire that pulls in the starter slave solenoid enables
12V to the coil thru contacts in the slave solenoid. I am very suspicious
that you can crank the engine but don't have 12V on the coil during
cranking. The only way I can account for that is if someone replaced the
solenoid with the wrong type or if the solenoid itself is bad.
Jim

"r_d" wrote in message
. com...

I realize that my naiveté is going to show here, but the boat is on the
trailer, and is NOT connected to the truck. I should still have a
sufficient ground though... no?



The battery you are using to crank and start the boat is in the boat
right? If so then it does not matter where the boat is as it is a complete
circuit. If you can crank it then you do have power to the system.



The voltmeter is just fine. I actually use a $4 digital meter from Harbor
Freight when I work on something. Actually, have one in each car and boat
in case of break down.



You have two primary problems.



1. No power to the coil



2. No start once you plugged the coil into the battery.



First-- With the distributor cap off crank the engine a revolution or
two. Does the rotor turn? Is there a rotor installed under the cap (yes I
have done this.)?



1. You are going to have to trace the wires from the positive side of the
coil back to where they go. I suspect one leg will go to the alternator
and one to the starter solenoid. But you need to find where each of these
leads go. Once you figure out where they go with key on test each
beginning point to see if you have 12v being supplied to the wire lead.
Find a good spot on the block and use this for all of your power tests.
Be sure to also test it to the positive side of the battery to make sure
it is a good ground. The idea of tracing the wires from the coil to their
point of origin is to make sure there are no fuses or circuit breakers
that are in the system that have blown or corroded connections that are
blocking power. If you do find that you do not have 12 volt in one of
those supply locations then that will have to be explored. Be advised
that you may not have 12v coming from the alternator as this may be
powered only when the alt is actually turning but you should be seeing 12v
on the start circuit. When you have it running you will have to replace
all of the electrical tape that you will remove.



2. Remove the points negative (ground) wire from the coil. With the
points sitting on a flat lobe of the cam (points closed) put your meter
into ohms and test the resistance from the points wire (removed from the
coil) to the plate the points are sitting on (the points ground the coil
to the base plate in the distributor. You are tying to see if the points
are really supplying a ground, what resistance do you get? With this
setup in place have someone crank the engine you should now see the
reading on the meter flip as the circuit closes and opens (both of these
can be done with a test light if you have one). Next test the resistance
from the plate that holds the points to a good place on the engine block,
should see a reading of zero. Next test from the engine block to the
negative side of the battery, should see a reading of zero. If you see a
see a reading of 1 on the meter, this means the circuit is open.



Check the resistance of your coil ignition wire (wire from coil to cap
center) what do you get (your are trying to see if the wire is bad)?



Unfortunately, at this point you are on your own. Just make sure you are
seeing a real ground through the points and try to determine where in the
system the power to the coil has stopped. I really do not know what to
tell you. Hooking the coil directly to the battery should have worked.
Because it did not tells you, you have a problem with the points. They
are not pulsing the coil. And no power to the coil key on tells you there
is a power problem.



I would not get discouraged. Just systematically work you way though the
system. With the closed circuit you will see a reading of zero or close
to zero in ohms. If you see a reading of 1 then the circuit is open.



good luck,

mark

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

OK Guys, I gave up.

I had a neighbor come take a look with a fresh set of eyes. He confirmed
that my thought process was sound, and things were set up correctly.

I brought the boat to the repair shop. We will see what they say next week.






"Jim" wrote in message
nk.net...
Agreed that there appear to be at least 2 problems. The first issue I
would tackle is: The same wire that pulls in the starter slave solenoid
enables 12V to the coil thru contacts in the slave solenoid. I am very
suspicious that you can crank the engine but don't have 12V on the coil
during cranking. The only way I can account for that is if someone
replaced the solenoid with the wrong type or if the solenoid itself is
bad.
Jim

"r_d" wrote in message
. com...

I realize that my naiveté is going to show here, but the boat is on the
trailer, and is NOT connected to the truck. I should still have a
sufficient ground though... no?



The battery you are using to crank and start the boat is in the boat
right? If so then it does not matter where the boat is as it is a
complete circuit. If you can crank it then you do have power to the
system.



The voltmeter is just fine. I actually use a $4 digital meter from
Harbor Freight when I work on something. Actually, have one in each car
and boat in case of break down.



You have two primary problems.



1. No power to the coil



2. No start once you plugged the coil into the battery.



First-- With the distributor cap off crank the engine a revolution or
two. Does the rotor turn? Is there a rotor installed under the cap (yes
I have done this.)?



1. You are going to have to trace the wires from the positive side of
the coil back to where they go. I suspect one leg will go to the
alternator and one to the starter solenoid. But you need to find where
each of these leads go. Once you figure out where they go with key on
test each beginning point to see if you have 12v being supplied to the
wire lead. Find a good spot on the block and use this for all of your
power tests. Be sure to also test it to the positive side of the battery
to make sure it is a good ground. The idea of tracing the wires from the
coil to their point of origin is to make sure there are no fuses or
circuit breakers that are in the system that have blown or corroded
connections that are blocking power. If you do find that you do not have
12 volt in one of those supply locations then that will have to be
explored. Be advised that you may not have 12v coming from the
alternator as this may be powered only when the alt is actually turning
but you should be seeing 12v on the start circuit. When you have it
running you will have to replace all of the electrical tape that you will
remove.



2. Remove the points negative (ground) wire from the coil. With the
points sitting on a flat lobe of the cam (points closed) put your meter
into ohms and test the resistance from the points wire (removed from the
coil) to the plate the points are sitting on (the points ground the coil
to the base plate in the distributor. You are tying to see if the points
are really supplying a ground, what resistance do you get? With this
setup in place have someone crank the engine you should now see the
reading on the meter flip as the circuit closes and opens (both of these
can be done with a test light if you have one). Next test the resistance
from the plate that holds the points to a good place on the engine block,
should see a reading of zero. Next test from the engine block to the
negative side of the battery, should see a reading of zero. If you see a
see a reading of 1 on the meter, this means the circuit is open.



Check the resistance of your coil ignition wire (wire from coil to cap
center) what do you get (your are trying to see if the wire is bad)?



Unfortunately, at this point you are on your own. Just make sure you are
seeing a real ground through the points and try to determine where in the
system the power to the coil has stopped. I really do not know what to
tell you. Hooking the coil directly to the battery should have worked.
Because it did not tells you, you have a problem with the points. They
are not pulsing the coil. And no power to the coil key on tells you
there is a power problem.



I would not get discouraged. Just systematically work you way though the
system. With the closed circuit you will see a reading of zero or close
to zero in ohms. If you see a reading of 1 then the circuit is open.



good luck,

mark

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

Now that he gave up , I got the same problem... One quick question..
Can you use an ohmeter to check the ignition coil? I get 11.3Kohms
across the secondary circuit (HV to points). Primary tests continuity
(0) at mOhm and Kohm ranges. This seems wrong.

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

Well, the problem is solved.

As suspected, there were a couple of issues contributing to the problem,
making it a bit more difficult to nail down.

The biggest problem was that the choke plate in the carb was bent to hell.
Seems someone in their infinite wisdom tried to play with the throttle while
they had a screwdriver stuck down the carb to keep the butterflies open.

The fuel filter / pump werefull of varnished fuel. So, although I drained
the tank and added fresh fuel, there is enough capacity in the lines,
filter, and carb to cause considerable grief on initial startup.

So, a rebuilt carb, an impeller kit, and a new battery has me ready for the
summer.

Total cost so far, including the initial price of the boat and trailer:
1844.00

I don't think I am upside down yet for a 1987 Rinker V19 Cuddy...

Mercruiser Still Won't Start
 

I have had the same problem, when i cranked it cranked kina slow, i did
all you did too but it would not start. i found that i had to replace
the starter. What was happening was the starter was draging and drawing
exessive amps and hence causing the engine not to start and the
cylindars not to fire. It is worth checking:

Pull the starter, and see how much play you have when you tip it back
and forth, execive play is bad, it is an exspensive fix but worth it,
and from what you are saying sounds like the fault.

Loren


TSC wrote:
Still working on this, and there must be something I am missing.

This is a 1987 Mercruiser Stern Drive with a 3.8 Litre 165 Horsepower four
cylinder

I have replaced...

Spark Plug Wires
Spark Plugs, gapped to specs
Distributor Cap
Rotor
Condenser
Ignition Points, gapped to specs
Coil

I have checked and rechecked to confirm the parts are correct for the
application

I have drained gas tank completely and added 10 gallons of fresh gas
I have tried with starting fluid
I have looked down the carb to verify that it is getting fuel
I have verified that the in-line circuit breaker is not tripped

There is NO spark whatsoever. It just turns over forever.

I have adjusted the timing every degree for 10 degrees in each direction and
there is NO spark.

Since I have replaced everything electrical that I can think of, and there
is still no spark, what else is there to do?

It has fuel. It has air. And all the electrical parts are new.

Previous owner inisists it ran fine when parked three seasons ago
(naturally).