New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

Hi All.
We just added a power boat to our fleet (of otherwise sailboats)
1990 Four Winns Horizon 180
Cobra outdrive, 4.3L GM engine

The original owner has two zincs; but I can count 4 (it's in the water right
now) -- QUestion: Does anyone know if there's a zinc behind the prop? Is there
a place where I can just buy a "zinc kit" for the outdrive?

The "factory" prop is a 14.5 x 19 -- that's what's on there now; max RPM is
supposed to be between 4200-4600 and running at 42-45mph

The factory prop is on there now -- it's an ugly thing with non-smooth blades
(they appear welded to the hub) and nicks out of hte blade (ala running thru mud
etc)

I'm getting at optimium trim 4200rpm but only 30mph. Engine is strong with good
even compression.

Would going down in pitch (raising RPM) help any with top speed? We're not
skiers, we just want this for getting to the mainland from time to time.

Oh -- and one thing that really bugs me -- the trim on these boats.... the trim
guage always reads "UP" I suspect the sender is jammed/broken -- but -- should
it allow you to raise it to "trailer mode" while underway? This is the 1st boat
that's allowed me to do that.

Thanks for any advice
-josh


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

I'm getting at optimium trim 4200rpm but only 30mph. Engine is strong
with good
even compression.

Would going down in pitch (raising RPM) help any with top speed? We're not
skiers, we just want this for getting to the mainland from time to time.

Going UP in pitch can help your top end, but will also LOWER the RPMs
(higher gear on a car). Going DOWN in pitch will help your LOW end (hole
shot), and will RAISE ypur RPMs and possible over rev.

Something else is holding your speed down.

--Mike

"Josh Assing" wrote in message
...
Hi All.
We just added a power boat to our fleet (of otherwise sailboats)
1990 Four Winns Horizon 180
Cobra outdrive, 4.3L GM engine

The original owner has two zincs; but I can count 4 (it's in the water
right
now) -- QUestion: Does anyone know if there's a zinc behind the prop? Is
there
a place where I can just buy a "zinc kit" for the outdrive?

The "factory" prop is a 14.5 x 19 -- that's what's on there now; max RPM
is
supposed to be between 4200-4600 and running at 42-45mph

The factory prop is on there now -- it's an ugly thing with non-smooth
blades
(they appear welded to the hub) and nicks out of hte blade (ala running
thru mud
etc)

I'm getting at optimium trim 4200rpm but only 30mph. Engine is strong
with good
even compression.

Would going down in pitch (raising RPM) help any with top speed? We're
not
skiers, we just want this for getting to the mainland from time to time.

Oh -- and one thing that really bugs me -- the trim on these boats.... the
trim
guage always reads "UP" I suspect the sender is jammed/broken -- but --
should
it allow you to raise it to "trailer mode" while underway? This is the
1st boat
that's allowed me to do that.

Thanks for any advice
-josh


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

Going UP in pitch can help your top end, but will also LOWER the RPMs
(higher gear on a car). Going DOWN in pitch will help your LOW end (hole
shot), and will RAISE ypur RPMs and possible over rev.

Something else is holding your speed down.

Righto.. Thanks.

I knew that going down in pitch would raise the rpm -- but I was wondering if
the increased RPM would help with the top end at all.

Since I'm at the lower end of the RPM range, I'm not sure going up in pitch
would be a wise choice.


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

Since I'm at the lower end of the RPM range, I'm not sure going up in
pitch
would be a wise choice.

Going down a couple of inches in pitch will get you to the higher end of
your WOT RPM and should help out the top end a bit. Like I said something
else is keeping the speed down. Have you checked it with a GPS? It's
possible that you're going faster than the speedo shows.

--Mike




"Josh Assing" wrote in message
...
Going UP in pitch can help your top end, but will also LOWER the RPMs
(higher gear on a car). Going DOWN in pitch will help your LOW end (hole
shot), and will RAISE ypur RPMs and possible over rev.

Something else is holding your speed down.

Righto.. Thanks.

I knew that going down in pitch would raise the rpm -- but I was wondering
if
the increased RPM would help with the top end at all.

Since I'm at the lower end of the RPM range, I'm not sure going up in
pitch
would be a wise choice.


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

I wouldn't worry about the trim guage. My Chris Craft has a trim guage
that does the same thing. If your's is equipped with a "Bow up/down"
switch, I'd run it with the "Bow Down" fully engaged and it should trim
nicely. Or, at least thats what I do.


Josh Assing wrote:
Oh -- and one thing that really bugs me -- the trim on these boats.... the trim
guage always reads "UP" I suspect the sender is jammed/broken -- but -- should
it allow you to raise it to "trailer mode" while underway? This is the 1st boat
that's allowed me to do that.

Thanks for any advice
-josh


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

Going down a couple of inches in pitch will get you to the higher end of
your WOT RPM and should help out the top end a bit. Like I said something
else is keeping the speed down. Have you checked it with a GPS? It's
possible that you're going faster than the speedo shows.

"A bit" doesn't sound like much. ;-)

GPS verified speed as near accurate (actually slower than what was reported on
the speedo, but considering the tide -- that would be expected)

Any ideas on what could keep the speed down by 10mph?

The original "Matched Options" book has this listed:

High Performance Propellers
V-6, 3.8, 4.3 Litre "1980 thru" OMC Racker14.5x24 = 50-60mph!

Whole cow; that's fast batman

But up 5" in pitch? yikes; that certainly would bog down & overwork the engine.

The prop does have a few dings in the end.

A trial today with glass like water got me to 35mph @ 4600 rpm; so maybe I will
go up in pitch


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

I wouldn't worry about the trim guage. My Chris Craft has a trim guage
that does the same thing. If your's is equipped with a "Bow up/down"
switch, I'd run it with the "Bow Down" fully engaged and it should trim
nicely. Or, at least thats what I do.

The problem is that it doesn't "stop" so if you're not paying attention; you
can trim it up into "Trailer mode" while underway..


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

"A bit" doesn't sound like much. ;-)

You're right, just tossin' out ideas.

V-6, 3.8, 4.3 Litre "1980 thru" OMC Racker14.5x24 = 50-60mph!
Whole cow; that's fast batman

Atomic batteries to power...turbines to speed... g

Speaking of props, what material is yours? A few dings will make a
difference, but certainly not 10-15mph. A stainless prop gets a better
"bite" on the water, but is also very expensive (compared to aluminum). I
had a 22p stainless prop on my 4.3L 18' reinell, and she got to about 45mph.
Can you turn the prop by hand at all when it is in gear? I don't know if you
can "partially" spin a prop from it's hub, but if it's slipping under load,
that would certainly account for a lower top end. Slower out of the hole as
well.

--Mike


"Josh Assing" wrote in message
...
Going down a couple of inches in pitch will get you to the higher end of
your WOT RPM and should help out the top end a bit. Like I said something
else is keeping the speed down. Have you checked it with a GPS? It's
possible that you're going faster than the speedo shows.

"A bit" doesn't sound like much. ;-)

GPS verified speed as near accurate (actually slower than what was
reported on
the speedo, but considering the tide -- that would be expected)

Any ideas on what could keep the speed down by 10mph?

The original "Matched Options" book has this listed:

High Performance Propellers
V-6, 3.8, 4.3 Litre "1980 thru" OMC Racker14.5x24 = 50-60mph!

Whole cow; that's fast batman

But up 5" in pitch? yikes; that certainly would bog down & overwork the
engine.

The prop does have a few dings in the end.

A trial today with glass like water got me to 35mph @ 4600 rpm; so maybe I
will
go up in pitch


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

You're right, just tossin' out ideas.

That's why I'm here -- for ideas!

Speaking of props, what material is yours? A few dings will make a

Aluminum

had a 22p stainless prop on my 4.3L 18' reinell, and she got to about 45mph.

OK -- so that's pretty close to the same boat - right? (18' 4.3L gm motor....)

Can you turn the prop by hand at all when it is in gear? I don't know if you
can "partially" spin a prop from it's hub, but if it's slipping under load,
that would certainly account for a lower top end. Slower out of the hole as

I'll check it out tonight.
Hole shot is very fast tho...

Thanks!

-josh


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

Speaking of props, what material is yours? A few dings will make a
difference, but certainly not 10-15mph. A stainless prop gets a better
"bite" on the water, but is also very expensive (compared to aluminum). I
had a 22p stainless prop on my 4.3L 18' reinell, and she got to about 45mph.
Can you turn the prop by hand at all when it is in gear? I don't know if you
can "partially" spin a prop from it's hub, but if it's slipping under load,
that would certainly account for a lower top end. Slower out of the hole as
well.

OK - boat is out of the water -- lots of barnicles (small ones) mostly on the
sides, not on the V part too much. some other round thing guys too.

Lots of algae...

I pressure washed the bottom, then scraped most of the barnicles off -- probably
need to put some bottom paint on -- but I won't be able to get to that tomorrow
(Needs to be really cleaned & sanded 1st)

The prop -- it's pretty dinged along ever edge -- and isn't even at all.

The outdrive -- the fin that goes "down" Looks like it got ground down a bit, I
have no reference for how big that fin should be; but there's some unpained
aluminum and it's rough like it's been pulled out of the water with the outdrive
down. I think that's OK -- and if not; can build up a new fin at a welding shop
I'm sure.

NOW, the real question is -- should it "curve" to the side (just a bit)? or
should it be straight down?

The prop's hub was in tact, it doesn't appear to have slipped at all.

Thanks for the advice
-josh


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

Ok, we're cutting to the chase now. The bottom of the boat should be clean
and SMOOTH. Even a little build up of crud will affect performance. Even a
fresh coat of wax on a clean hull helps. It sounds like you have more than a
little bit of crud. The skeg sounds like it got dragged coming out of the
water more than once. It should be perfectly vertical, not bent to one side
or the other...that will slow you down. If not too much is taken off, you
can just bend it back yourself...file/sand the edges smooth, and give it a
coat of paint. The prop...sounds like it's time for retirement. Since it's
aluminum...just replace it. it's not worth getting it repaired. If you have
the $$ go with stainless, for better performance. There are cons with
stainless as well, but I ran with one for years with no problems.

I'll bet ya, if you do those three things, that boat will perform as it
should (or close to it).

--Mike


"Josh Assing" wrote in message
...
Speaking of props, what material is yours? A few dings will make a
difference, but certainly not 10-15mph. A stainless prop gets a better
"bite" on the water, but is also very expensive (compared to aluminum). I
had a 22p stainless prop on my 4.3L 18' reinell, and she got to about
45mph.
Can you turn the prop by hand at all when it is in gear? I don't know if
you
can "partially" spin a prop from it's hub, but if it's slipping under
load,
that would certainly account for a lower top end. Slower out of the hole
as
well.

OK - boat is out of the water -- lots of barnicles (small ones) mostly on
the
sides, not on the V part too much. some other round thing guys too.

Lots of algae...

I pressure washed the bottom, then scraped most of the barnicles off --
probably
need to put some bottom paint on -- but I won't be able to get to that
tomorrow
(Needs to be really cleaned & sanded 1st)

The prop -- it's pretty dinged along ever edge -- and isn't even at all.

The outdrive -- the fin that goes "down" Looks like it got ground down a
bit, I
have no reference for how big that fin should be; but there's some
unpained
aluminum and it's rough like it's been pulled out of the water with the
outdrive
down. I think that's OK -- and if not; can build up a new fin at a
welding shop
I'm sure.

NOW, the real question is -- should it "curve" to the side (just a bit)?
or
should it be straight down?

The prop's hub was in tact, it doesn't appear to have slipped at all.

Thanks for the advice
-josh


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

Thanks mike -- I priced props, can't afford SS right now. for less than a SS I
can get a 19 and 22 pitch prop (for pullin skiers & cruising/top end)

Now that it's light out; I took another look -- and yea; there's still more on
it; I got almost all the barnicles off - amazing that people would keep a boat
in salt water & not have a good coat of bottom paint on it. I guess I'm just
used to the sailboat -- I keep her in year round and only paint the bottom once
ever 2 years -- this has been in the water 6 months -- I guess that paint really
does work well! g

I tried to bend the skeg back to verticle; but it's just so slight to the side;
I'm afraid I'll break it -- maybe a bit of heat?

Any reference/clues to how far down it should go? It's about even with the prop
blade.

for fun..
http://jassing.com/josh/images/fourwinns/skegrear.jpg
http://jassing.com/josh/images/fourwinns/skegside.jpg
http://jassing.com/josh/images/fourwinns/prop.jpg

The shots of the bottom weren't good enough to post -- especially since I got
90% of the crud off...

Thanks for the advice/help!

-josh
(My last power boat was a small thing that I hauled out after each use with an
outboard, so while a small boat, it's a new world to me)

On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 05:41:49 GMT, "MGG" wrote:

Ok, we're cutting to the chase now. The bottom of the boat should be clean
and SMOOTH. Even a little build up of crud will affect performance. Even a
fresh coat of wax on a clean hull helps. It sounds like you have more than a
little bit of crud. The skeg sounds like it got dragged coming out of the
water more than once. It should be perfectly vertical, not bent to one side
or the other...that will slow you down. If not too much is taken off, you
can just bend it back yourself...file/sand the edges smooth, and give it a
coat of paint. The prop...sounds like it's time for retirement. Since it's
aluminum...just replace it. it's not worth getting it repaired. If you have
the $$ go with stainless, for better performance. There are cons with
stainless as well, but I ran with one for years with no problems.

I'll bet ya, if you do those three things, that boat will perform as it
should (or close to it).

--Mike


"Josh Assing" wrote in message
.. .
Speaking of props, what material is yours? A few dings will make a
difference, but certainly not 10-15mph. A stainless prop gets a better
"bite" on the water, but is also very expensive (compared to aluminum). I
had a 22p stainless prop on my 4.3L 18' reinell, and she got to about
45mph.
Can you turn the prop by hand at all when it is in gear? I don't know if
you
can "partially" spin a prop from it's hub, but if it's slipping under
load,
that would certainly account for a lower top end. Slower out of the hole
as
well.

OK - boat is out of the water -- lots of barnicles (small ones) mostly on
the
sides, not on the V part too much. some other round thing guys too.

Lots of algae...

I pressure washed the bottom, then scraped most of the barnicles off --
probably
need to put some bottom paint on -- but I won't be able to get to that
tomorrow
(Needs to be really cleaned & sanded 1st)

The prop -- it's pretty dinged along ever edge -- and isn't even at all.

The outdrive -- the fin that goes "down" Looks like it got ground down a
bit, I
have no reference for how big that fin should be; but there's some
unpained
aluminum and it's rough like it's been pulled out of the water with the
outdrive
down. I think that's OK -- and if not; can build up a new fin at a
welding shop
I'm sure.

NOW, the real question is -- should it "curve" to the side (just a bit)?
or
should it be straight down?

The prop's hub was in tact, it doesn't appear to have slipped at all.

Thanks for the advice
-josh


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

I tried to bend the skeg back to verticle; but it's just so slight to the
side;
I'm afraid I'll break it -- maybe a bit of heat?

Heating it up would help, but be careful not to overheat it. The shape of
the skeg (from the side) looks good apart from the chunk taken out of the
back. I would just grind down those rough corners (kind of round off the
broken part), grind the bottom smooth, and paint it. That is *if* you can
get the twist out. If you can't get the twist out, then she needs to see a
prop shop. That twist *will* slow you down. I'll bet the boat pulls to the
right, so you need to steer left to compensate. That sort of cross control
aint good for speed.

I can get a 19 and 22 pitch prop (for pullin skiers & cruising/top end)

That's the exact same setup I had on my Reinell...except the 22 was
stainless.

A picture is worth a thousand words, and I think we've nailed your problem.

--Mike

"Josh Assing" wrote in message
...
Thanks mike -- I priced props, can't afford SS right now. for less than a
SS I
can get a 19 and 22 pitch prop (for pullin skiers & cruising/top end)

Now that it's light out; I took another look -- and yea; there's still
more on
it; I got almost all the barnicles off - amazing that people would keep a
boat
in salt water & not have a good coat of bottom paint on it. I guess I'm
just
used to the sailboat -- I keep her in year round and only paint the bottom
once
ever 2 years -- this has been in the water 6 months -- I guess that paint
really
does work well! g

I tried to bend the skeg back to verticle; but it's just so slight to the
side;
I'm afraid I'll break it -- maybe a bit of heat?

Any reference/clues to how far down it should go? It's about even with
the prop
blade.

for fun..
http://jassing.com/josh/images/fourwinns/skegrear.jpg
http://jassing.com/josh/images/fourwinns/skegside.jpg
http://jassing.com/josh/images/fourwinns/prop.jpg

The shots of the bottom weren't good enough to post -- especially since I
got
90% of the crud off...

Thanks for the advice/help!

-josh
(My last power boat was a small thing that I hauled out after each use
with an
outboard, so while a small boat, it's a new world to me)

On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 05:41:49 GMT, "MGG" wrote:

Ok, we're cutting to the chase now. The bottom of the boat should be clean
and SMOOTH. Even a little build up of crud will affect performance. Even a
fresh coat of wax on a clean hull helps. It sounds like you have more than
a
little bit of crud. The skeg sounds like it got dragged coming out of the
water more than once. It should be perfectly vertical, not bent to one
side
or the other...that will slow you down. If not too much is taken off, you
can just bend it back yourself...file/sand the edges smooth, and give it a
coat of paint. The prop...sounds like it's time for retirement. Since it's
aluminum...just replace it. it's not worth getting it repaired. If you
have
the $$ go with stainless, for better performance. There are cons with
stainless as well, but I ran with one for years with no problems.

I'll bet ya, if you do those three things, that boat will perform as it
should (or close to it).

--Mike


"Josh Assing" wrote in message
. ..
Speaking of props, what material is yours? A few dings will make a
difference, but certainly not 10-15mph. A stainless prop gets a better
"bite" on the water, but is also very expensive (compared to aluminum).
I
had a 22p stainless prop on my 4.3L 18' reinell, and she got to about
45mph.
Can you turn the prop by hand at all when it is in gear? I don't know if
you
can "partially" spin a prop from it's hub, but if it's slipping under
load,
that would certainly account for a lower top end. Slower out of the hole
as
well.

OK - boat is out of the water -- lots of barnicles (small ones) mostly
on
the
sides, not on the V part too much. some other round thing guys too.

Lots of algae...

I pressure washed the bottom, then scraped most of the barnicles off --
probably
need to put some bottom paint on -- but I won't be able to get to that
tomorrow
(Needs to be really cleaned & sanded 1st)

The prop -- it's pretty dinged along ever edge -- and isn't even at all.

The outdrive -- the fin that goes "down" Looks like it got ground down
a
bit, I
have no reference for how big that fin should be; but there's some
unpained
aluminum and it's rough like it's been pulled out of the water with the
outdrive
down. I think that's OK -- and if not; can build up a new fin at a
welding shop
I'm sure.

NOW, the real question is -- should it "curve" to the side (just a bit)?
or
should it be straight down?

The prop's hub was in tact, it doesn't appear to have slipped at all.

Thanks for the advice
-josh


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

Heating it up would help, but be careful not to overheat it. The shape of
the skeg (from the side) looks good apart from the chunk taken out of the
back. I would just grind down those rough corners (kind of round off the
broken part), grind the bottom smooth, and paint it. That is *if* you can
get the twist out. If you can't get the twist out, then she needs to see a
prop shop. That twist *will* slow you down. I'll bet the boat pulls to the
right, so you need to steer left to compensate. That sort of cross control
aint good for speed.

Wish me luck! I've already filed the rough edges down -- Plan on talking to a
shop about welding up the chunks.

it doesn't so much pull to one side, as it does ride "uneven" -- giving serious
consideration to trim tabs if fixing the sked doesn't help

That's the exact same setup I had on my Reinell...except the 22 was
stainless.

I just couldn't afford it. The prop shop said to go 21 not 22; he thought the
22 would be "too much" and I'd tend to overheat if I had too much weight in.

A picture is worth a thousand words, and I think we've nailed your problem.

I could never describe that good enough....

Thanks for the advice! We'll find out -- I'm changing the engine oil now; then
working on teh stern light (trying to clean the contacts) and then lastly - try
to change the outdrive oil. It looks like there's upper & lower units -- gotta
read up to see what oil is used in what and how much to see if I have the oil
here for it.

Thanks
-josh


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

Good luck Josh. I'm confident that if you have a clean hull, straighten that
skeg, and get a new prop, you'll see close to 40-45mph (with an average
load).

--Mike

"Josh Assing" wrote in message
...
Heating it up would help, but be careful not to overheat it. The shape of
the skeg (from the side) looks good apart from the chunk taken out of the
back. I would just grind down those rough corners (kind of round off the
broken part), grind the bottom smooth, and paint it. That is *if* you can
get the twist out. If you can't get the twist out, then she needs to see a
prop shop. That twist *will* slow you down. I'll bet the boat pulls to the
right, so you need to steer left to compensate. That sort of cross control
aint good for speed.

Wish me luck! I've already filed the rough edges down -- Plan on talking
to a
shop about welding up the chunks.

it doesn't so much pull to one side, as it does ride "uneven" -- giving
serious
consideration to trim tabs if fixing the sked doesn't help

That's the exact same setup I had on my Reinell...except the 22 was
stainless.

I just couldn't afford it. The prop shop said to go 21 not 22; he thought
the
22 would be "too much" and I'd tend to overheat if I had too much weight
in.

A picture is worth a thousand words, and I think we've nailed your
problem.

I could never describe that good enough....

Thanks for the advice! We'll find out -- I'm changing the engine oil
now; then
working on teh stern light (trying to clean the contacts) and then
lastly - try
to change the outdrive oil. It looks like there's upper & lower units --
gotta
read up to see what oil is used in what and how much to see if I have the
oil
here for it.

Thanks
-josh


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New boat (to me) -- Need zincs/prop -- Advise?
 

Got it straight -- new prop on, lower unit oil changed, engine oil changed, new
zincs, full tank; boat going back in tomorrow... I'll let you know.

I really appreciate the help & vote of confidence!

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 04:38:26 GMT, "MGG" wrote:

Good luck Josh. I'm confident that if you have a clean hull, straighten that
skeg, and get a new prop, you'll see close to 40-45mph (with an average
load).

--Mike

"Josh Assing" wrote in message
.. .
Heating it up would help, but be careful not to overheat it. The shape of
the skeg (from the side) looks good apart from the chunk taken out of the
back. I would just grind down those rough corners (kind of round off the
broken part), grind the bottom smooth, and paint it. That is *if* you can
get the twist out. If you can't get the twist out, then she needs to see a
prop shop. That twist *will* slow you down. I'll bet the boat pulls to the
right, so you need to steer left to compensate. That sort of cross control
aint good for speed.

Wish me luck! I've already filed the rough edges down -- Plan on talking
to a
shop about welding up the chunks.

it doesn't so much pull to one side, as it does ride "uneven" -- giving
serious
consideration to trim tabs if fixing the sked doesn't help

That's the exact same setup I had on my Reinell...except the 22 was
stainless.

I just couldn't afford it. The prop shop said to go 21 not 22; he thought
the
22 would be "too much" and I'd tend to overheat if I had too much weight
in.

A picture is worth a thousand words, and I think we've nailed your
problem.

I could never describe that good enough....

Thanks for the advice! We'll find out -- I'm changing the engine oil
now; then
working on teh stern light (trying to clean the contacts) and then
lastly - try
to change the outdrive oil. It looks like there's upper & lower units --
gotta
read up to see what oil is used in what and how much to see if I have the
oil
here for it.

Thanks
-josh


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