"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
RCE wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
I don't know Harry. Seem reasonable to me for the weight and speed.
Correct me please if I am wrong, but didn't you opt for the larger fuel
tank in your Parker? 150 gal, if I recall. Yet, you often speak of
running with only half a tank to save on fuel burn. So, you "fill-up"
to 75 gallons, same as the 27 foot Bayliner.

Two feet bigger .... ummmm ... maybe there's a Bayliner in your future.

RCE
No, the tank I got with my Parker is the standard tank. I fill half way
up unless I am going somewhere distant.

I know. Just trying to bust your chops a bit.

RCE

For some reason, my 25' Parker is larger than the 27' Bayliner. West Coast
measuring rules must be different.

Most of the 19' and larger Bayliners are adequate for Chesapeake Bay. I
wouldn't take one out in the Atlantic Ocean, though. My feeling is if they
skimp on the deck hardware, something you can see, then they've really
shortchanged you in the areas you cannot see. I'm unimpressed by the tales
coming out of Bayliner's super sophisticated, robotic boatbuilding
factories. Most of the better production boats are still built the
old-fashioned way, by people.

I haven't seen any of the "new" improved Bayliners, although I've been told
that they have made giant strides in terms of quality compared to what was
built 15 or 20 years ago.

I remember when we decided to get into boating back in 1994. I had no clue
what to look for and, having a limited budget, was looking for the biggest
bang for the buck. I finally found what I thought I wanted and made an
offer on it. It was (at the time) a 10 year old (1984) Bayliner - about a
25 footer I think. Excitedly, I mentioned to my father-in-law that I had
made an offer on a boat and was waiting to see if the seller accepted the
offer. (My father-in-law was still tooling around and fishing in his famous
1972 Uniflite at the time). When I told him it was a Bayliner, his jaw
dropped and he basically threatened to disown me as his son-in-law if I
bought it.

Fortunately, the seller counter-offered and I walked away.

RCE

Gene Kearns wrote:


I agree. And statements such as, ""Quality", like beauty, can be a
fairly subjective value," remind me that Ugly and lack of quality are
pretty un-subjective and extending from the surface all the way to the
bone..... :-)


Ok, so share with us what the term "quality" means to you, and also
just why everyone else must agree with your standards. That would be
interesting. You may detect ugliness and lack of quality that extend
all the way to the bone in cases where others would disagree. For
instance, know of anybody who is married to a person that you think is
just flat out "ugly," or a real (insert bitch or ******* here), yet in
the eyes of the spouse that person is one heck of a good looking and
superb human being?

Ever watch somebody eating a dish in a restaurant that would make you
gag and puke?
Happens all the time. One man's trash is another's treasure. It's
perfectly OK for people to look at a common group of factors and arrive
at diverse conclusions. I expressed an opinion that this boat will
prove adequately stout for its intended purposes. If you have been
aboard an example of the same craft and have formed a different opinion
that could be the basis for an interesting discussion.

You are wise man Grasshopper.

http://www.bayliner.com/cruisers.asp...ype=1,4,9 ,23

JR


wrote:
JR North wrote:

Christ- no marine head option...a Portapotti on a 27ft $46K boat. Sorry-
SWMBO would NOT go to the San Juans with me in that. No power fridge. No
hot water. Nothing about the cleats- prolly plastic or Zamac.



???????

Where are you coming up with the portapotti thing?
Certainly not in the boat described in this thread.

Dual voltage fridge/freezer in this boat.

Six gallon hot water tank.




*Some* of these things *could* be upgraded after purchase; some at
unreasonable expense. BUT: 17° deadrise- too flat for comfy anchoring or
rough water. Looks reeeealy tall and bleach-bottly; clearly going for
6'+ headroom in the forward cabin. Overnighting in a windy anchorage
would be pretty rough.
JR

wrote:



--

--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Sun, 28 May 2006 19:59:43 -0700, JR North penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

http://www.bayliner.com/cruisers.asp...ype=1,4,9 ,23


Maybe they noticed that as a flaw and from 2005 to 2006 fixed their
error.

Interesting link, though. I noticed they are now touting Hand-Laid
Fiberglass. I wonder what that *really* means. Hand held chopper gun?
No more electronically controlled gee-whiz whatever it was that the
resident Bayliner-village-idiot used to spout here to prove that
Bayliner was better than any other boat?


The general layup practiced on Bayliners of all sizes is a few layers
of mat under the gelcoat, with the majority of the thickness created by
chopped strand. Also true of Sea Ray,
and a host of other mass-pro boats. The chop is now frequently laid
into the mold with a robot arm (I think there's a good photo or video
of the process on the Sea Ray website) to ensure an even application,
and the mix of strand and resin is constantly monitored by computer
during the layup so you run less risk of developiong dry or
over-saturated pockets in the layup. To additionally guard against
uneven saturation, molds are rotated 20-30 degrees on the longitudinal
axis during the layup.

Within a few years, we are going to see a greater number of boats built
with the vacuum injection process. It is now common for cabin tops,
decks, and other components with more manufacturers beginning to use
vacuum bag molding for entire hulls.

Harry Krause wrote:
wrote:
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Sun, 28 May 2006 19:59:43 -0700, JR North penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

http://www.bayliner.com/cruisers.asp...ype=1,4,9 ,23

Maybe they noticed that as a flaw and from 2005 to 2006 fixed their
error.

Interesting link, though. I noticed they are now touting Hand-Laid
Fiberglass. I wonder what that *really* means. Hand held chopper gun?
No more electronically controlled gee-whiz whatever it was that the
resident Bayliner-village-idiot used to spout here to prove that
Bayliner was better than any other boat?


The general layup practiced on Bayliners of all sizes is a few layers
of mat under the gelcoat, with the majority of the thickness created by
chopped strand. Also true of Sea Ray,
and a host of other mass-pro boats. The chop is now frequently laid
into the mold with a robot arm (I think there's a good photo or video
of the process on the Sea Ray website) to ensure an even application,
and the mix of strand and resin is constantly monitored by computer
during the layup so you run less risk of developiong dry or
over-saturated pockets in the layup. To additionally guard against
uneven saturation, molds are rotated 20-30 degrees on the longitudinal
axis during the layup.

Within a few years, we are going to see a greater number of boats built
with the vacuum injection process. It is now common for cabin tops,
decks, and other components with more manufacturers beginning to use
vacuum bag molding for entire hulls.



Many of the better boats are built via vacuum bagging, not vacuum
injection.

Every time you post a "review" of a Bayliner, it reminds me of how
thankful I am that I never bought one. I'm not opposed to inexpensive
boats. I've owned a few, and I am a fan of Carolina Skiffs, which are
inexpensively made.

Vacuum "bagging" is an injection process. The bag around the dry layup
allows a vacuum to develop so the resin can be sucked and pumped
thorughout the fabrics and (possible) cores.

Bayliners certainly aren't for everybody, but for a casual family boat
that will allow families to get out on the water they have a lot to
offer for a relatively lower price. For fair weather boating in inland
waters, freshwater lakes, and maybe even the ICW few families will
actually *need* a better boat, although some will want higher degree of
refinement or specialization and there is no shortage of boats that
offer more features or stouter construction for a moderate to serious
upcharge from Bayliner price tag.

Bayliner doesn't build a trawler, so I have never had to seriously
debate whether I would own one or not. :-)

Gene Kearns wrote:
On 29 May 2006 18:48:04 -0700, penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:



Vacuum "bagging" is an injection process. The bag around the dry layup
allows a vacuum to develop so the resin can be sucked and pumped
thorughout the fabrics and (possible) cores.


No, Vacuum bagging is just that ..... using a vacuum inside of a bag.
We use that method frequently in composite repair and there is no mold
nor injection equipment involved. Certainly, in a manufacturing
setting you could employ a vacuum to do as you suggest, but vacuum
bagging, per se, is not an "injection" process.


The layup process I am referring to would not be possible without the
vacuum created by enclosure in a bag. I will concede that I should have
considered the difference between "injection" and "infusion", as the
latter term would have been a more accurate usage.