What to do with an injured canoe?
 

Hi,
When we bought our house, it came with an Old Town canoe in the backyard.
We were told by our then tenants that it was owned by a previous tenant and
he was planning to come back for it. It's been 4.5 years and it's still
here and we've occasionally taken it out for small jaunts on the local
waterways (we're in the Finger Lakes region of NY). Last winter during a
wind storm, it was lifted up and whacked against a spruce tree which cracked
it midway on the left side, from the top of the gunwale to about 12-16." No
pieces of the hull are missing, though the plastic covering the top of the
gunwale wall is broken and missing sections.

We are pondering on whether it's worth repairing and how hard it would be to
fix it. We are not sure what kind of material it's made of. I went on Old
Town website but couldn't match it up to any of the current models (no
surprise). It's serial number is gone and so is any other name, except for
the "Old Town" label on the sides. Looking at the cross section of the
break, it looks like a layer of plastic, a layer of stiff foam and another
layer of plastic. This canoe is light blue on the outside, beige/putty
colored on the inside. It's pretty generic in shape and style. While we are
fixing it, we would also want to replace the plastic that covers up the top
of the gunwale walls.

We already have a different canoe that my husband & son use for fishing (an
aluminum square back Sports Pal). The Sports Pal is a nice canoe x boat
(it's sort of a hybrid) but since it's aluminum we're hesitant to take it in
rocky situations. The thought is that if we fix the Old Town for a
reasonable price, it could be used for times when we might liked to go down
a local creek.

So is an old Old Town canoe worth fixing? Is there a point where a crack is
too severe to be safely fixed? Any idea of what kind of Old Town canoe it is
in terms of materials? My digital camera charger is MIA but when I find it
I can put up some photos if that would help. And if we do fix it, would it
be ethical to claim it as our own? And if we decide it's too difficult for
us to fix, should we scrap it or donate it? And if we donated it - who to?
Are their any liability issues with donating a cracked canoe?

Chris in lovely Ithaca NY

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

"chris jung" wrote in message
...
Hi,
When we bought our house, it came with an Old Town canoe in the backyard.
We were told by our then tenants that it was owned by a previous tenant
and he was planning to come back for it. It's been 4.5 years and it's
still here and we've occasionally taken it out for small jaunts on the
local waterways (we're in the Finger Lakes region of NY). Last winter
during a wind storm, it was lifted up and whacked against a spruce tree
which cracked it midway on the left side, from the top of the gunwale to
about 12-16." No pieces of the hull are missing, though the plastic
covering the top of the gunwale wall is broken and missing sections.

We are pondering on whether it's worth repairing and how hard it would be
to fix it. We are not sure what kind of material it's made of. I went on
Old Town website but couldn't match it up to any of the current models (no
surprise). It's serial number is gone and so is any other name, except for
the "Old Town" label on the sides. Looking at the cross section of the
break, it looks like a layer of plastic, a layer of stiff foam and another
layer of plastic. This canoe is light blue on the outside, beige/putty
colored on the inside. It's pretty generic in shape and style. While we
are fixing it, we would also want to replace the plastic that covers up
the top of the gunwale walls.

We already have a different canoe that my husband & son use for fishing
(an aluminum square back Sports Pal). The Sports Pal is a nice canoe x
boat (it's sort of a hybrid) but since it's aluminum we're hesitant to
take it in rocky situations. The thought is that if we fix the Old Town
for a reasonable price, it could be used for times when we might liked to
go down a local creek.

So is an old Old Town canoe worth fixing? Is there a point where a crack
is too severe to be safely fixed? Any idea of what kind of Old Town canoe
it is in terms of materials? My digital camera charger is MIA but when I
find it I can put up some photos if that would help. And if we do fix it,
would it be ethical to claim it as our own? And if we decide it's too
difficult for us to fix, should we scrap it or donate it? And if we
donated it - who to? Are their any liability issues with donating a
cracked canoe?

Chris in lovely Ithaca NY


Definately post some pictures of it when your camera is fixed, but
generally, Old Town boats are far superior to Sports Pal boats. Your boat is
most likely a Tripper, which is a well respected and well known boat. It
could, however, be a Discovery, a Kennebec or any of several other
types...there's no telling from what you have posted. If you can measure the
length of it in a straight line from tip to tip, that would help.

However, the material it is made of is 'ABS', which is very durable and
flexible. It consists of a 1/2 inch thick foam core (stiff cream-colored
foam, as you described), sandwiched in a layer or layers of plastic sheath.
As long as the outer plastic coating is not too badly damaged, the core and
inner sheath is almost indestructable. The only thing that really weakens it
is UV rays...like if it were laying out in the sun for several years and had
some damages to the exterior coating.

The damage you describe sounds like what happens when you whack a frozen
canoe with a spruce tree. It sounds like the boat just cracked. If thats the
case, you can just fiberglass over the split; a thin layer on the inside and
another on the outside. If the tear does not go below waterline, then you
might consider just getting some sealant/glue and basically glueing the tear
shut. However, in any case you WILL need to replace the gunnels, as the hull
strength is a bit compromised so you need a sturdy gunnel to hold it in
shape. Its best to have someone look at it in person to assess the damage
and if it needs repair. Posted pictures would help here.

You can get replacement parts via Old Town Canoe in Old Town, Maine. They
will sell gunnels, seats, thwarts, and end plates, however almost any canoe
shop can get you seats and thwarts, and any reasonable handyman could put on
wooden gunnels. But the real problem is that new OT canoes cost in excess of
$1000, so if you just took possession of this, the owner might charge you
with theft. Its best to find out the laws in your region about abandoned
property: I'm pretty sure that merely claiming it for yourself is
insufficient, and you'll have to make some effort to find the owner, etc.
You probably aren't responsible for the damage to it, but the original owner
could take possession and you may or may not get reimbursed for the repairs.

--riverman

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

chris jung wrote:

Hi,
When we bought our house, it came with an Old Town canoe in the backyard.
We were told by our then tenants that it was owned by a previous tenant and
he was planning to come back for it. It's been 4.5 years and it's still
here and we've occasionally taken it out for small jaunts on the local
waterways (we're in the Finger Lakes region of NY). Last winter during a
wind storm, it was lifted up and whacked against a spruce tree which cracked
it midway on the left side, from the top of the gunwale to about 12-16." No
pieces of the hull are missing, though the plastic covering the top of the
gunwale wall is broken and missing sections.

We are pondering on whether it's worth repairing and how hard it would be to
fix it. We are not sure what kind of material it's made of. I went on Old
Town website but couldn't match it up to any of the current models (no
surprise). It's serial number is gone and so is any other name, except for
the "Old Town" label on the sides. Looking at the cross section of the
break, it looks like a layer of plastic, a layer of stiff foam and another
layer of plastic. This canoe is light blue on the outside, beige/putty
colored on the inside.

This is Old Town's common sandwich molded construction, used in several
models. The color scheme matches a similar common canoe that I have, an
Old Town Discovery. It could be any of several others, such as the
Tripper, as Riverman said.

http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/product_list.html

Old Town usually places the model name on the outside of the bow,
usually on the one or both sides, just below the gunwale. They use
adhesive letter decals. Look closely; if the decals are missing, there
may still be enough traces of adhesive to read the name.

It's pretty generic in shape and style. While we are
fixing it, we would also want to replace the plastic that covers up the top
of the gunwale walls.

We already have a different canoe that my husband & son use for fishing (an
aluminum square back Sports Pal). The Sports Pal is a nice canoe x boat
(it's sort of a hybrid) but since it's aluminum we're hesitant to take it in
rocky situations. The thought is that if we fix the Old Town for a
reasonable price, it could be used for times when we might liked to go down
a local creek.

So is an old Old Town canoe worth fixing? Is there a point where a crack is
too severe to be safely fixed?

Based on your description, this boat is almost certainly worth fixing.
However, the hull is probably significantly weakened, so you should
probably avoid a lot of rock bashing. Try it out on your "local creek";
I expect that it will not fail catastrophically in a place described as
mildly as that. ;-)

Any idea of what kind of Old Town canoe it is
in terms of materials?

Old Town has several different sandwich formulations. They have changed
the hull material at least once in the Discovery line. My 1999 catalog
says that Discovery's were "Crosslink3", polyethylene based, that year.
This could easily be a Royalex boat too, like Riverman said.

The bad thing about polyethylene is that repair adhesives *really* don't
like to stick to it. You really want a solid gunwale to back up the
repair of the type of vertical crack that you described.

My digital camera charger is MIA but when I find it
I can put up some photos if that would help. And if we do fix it, would it
be ethical to claim it as our own?

After 4.5 years? Did you sign a contract agreeing to store the boat
rent-free indefinitely? I didn't think so. It's probably yours, but
inquire locally about abandoned property laws. At least fix it and get
some fun out of it. In the unlikely event that the original owner comes
around later, at least charge them for all of your repair expenses. I
bet a court would back you up at least that far.

--Dave
"Please reply to the newsgroup!"

And if we decide it's too difficult for
us to fix, should we scrap it or donate it? And if we donated it - who to?
Are their any liability issues with donating a cracked canoe?

Chris in lovely Ithaca NY

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

chris jung wrote:

Hi,
When we bought our house, it came with an Old Town canoe in the backyard.
We were told by our then tenants that it was owned by a previous tenant and
he was planning to come back for it. It's been 4.5 years and it's still
here and we've occasionally taken it out for small jaunts on the local
waterways (we're in the Finger Lakes region of NY). Last winter during a
wind storm, it was lifted up and whacked against a spruce tree which cracked
it midway on the left side, from the top of the gunwale to about 12-16." No
pieces of the hull are missing, though the plastic covering the top of the
gunwale wall is broken and missing sections.

We are pondering on whether it's worth repairing and how hard it would be to
fix it. We are not sure what kind of material it's made of. I went on Old
Town website but couldn't match it up to any of the current models (no
surprise). It's serial number is gone and so is any other name, except for
the "Old Town" label on the sides. Looking at the cross section of the
break, it looks like a layer of plastic, a layer of stiff foam and another
layer of plastic. This canoe is light blue on the outside, beige/putty
colored on the inside.

This is Old Town's common sandwich molded construction, used in several
models. The color scheme matches a similar common canoe that I have, an
Old Town Discovery. It could be any of several others, such as the
Tripper, as Riverman said.

http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/product_list.html

Old Town usually places the model name on the outside of the bow,
usually on the one or both sides, just below the gunwale. They use
adhesive letter decals. Look closely; if the decals are missing, there
may still be enough traces of adhesive to read the name.

It's pretty generic in shape and style. While we are
fixing it, we would also want to replace the plastic that covers up the top
of the gunwale walls.

We already have a different canoe that my husband & son use for fishing (an
aluminum square back Sports Pal). The Sports Pal is a nice canoe x boat
(it's sort of a hybrid) but since it's aluminum we're hesitant to take it in
rocky situations. The thought is that if we fix the Old Town for a
reasonable price, it could be used for times when we might liked to go down
a local creek.

So is an old Old Town canoe worth fixing? Is there a point where a crack is
too severe to be safely fixed?

Based on your description, this boat is almost certainly worth fixing.
However, the hull is probably significantly weakened, so you should
probably avoid a lot of rock bashing. Try it out on your "local creek";
I expect that it will not fail catastrophically in a place described as
mildly as that. ;-)

Any idea of what kind of Old Town canoe it is
in terms of materials?

Old Town has several different sandwich formulations. They have changed
the hull material at least once in the Discovery line. My 1999 catalog
says that Discovery's were "Crosslink3", polyethylene based, that year.
This could easily be a Royalex boat too, like Riverman said.

The bad thing about polyethylene is that repair adhesives *really* don't
like to stick to it. You really want a solid gunwale to back up the
repair of the type of vertical crack that you described.

My digital camera charger is MIA but when I find it
I can put up some photos if that would help. And if we do fix it, would it
be ethical to claim it as our own?

After 4.5 years? Did you sign a contract agreeing to store the boat
rent-free indefinitely? I didn't think so. It's probably yours, but
inquire locally about abandoned property laws. At least fix it and get
some fun out of it. In the unlikely event that the original owner comes
around later, at least charge them for all of your repair expenses. I
bet a court would back you up at least that far.

--Dave
"Please reply to the newsgroup!"

And if we decide it's too difficult for
us to fix, should we scrap it or donate it? And if we donated it - who to?
Are their any liability issues with donating a cracked canoe?

Chris in lovely Ithaca NY

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

possession is 9/10th's of the law - it was left on your property - it's
yours. Or decide to sell it back to him for your estimate of storage
fees.

I'm assumin it's fiberglass. I assume you can fix it, but I have no
idea how you would. Know any know-it-all handy men? Ask them for
suggestions of fixing materials.

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

"Kernix" wrote in message
oups.com...
possession is 9/10th's of the law - it was left on your property - it's
yours. Or decide to sell it back to him for your estimate of storage
fees.

I'm assumin it's fiberglass. I assume you can fix it, but I have no
idea how you would. Know any know-it-all handy men? Ask them for
suggestions of fixing materials.


This post is so funny its hard to know if its even worth responding to it.

--riverman

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

What's so funny dude - with my post - why don't you explain it to us -
****ing dickhead! Can't stand assholes like you.

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

Kernix wrote:
What's so funny dude - with my post - why don't you explain it to us -
****ing dickhead! Can't stand assholes like you.

hands over bar of soap

Go wash your mouth!

Instead of spouting off against someone who acts decently and who shows
his amusement at a post that you probably unintentionally wrote in such
a way, maybe you should try to think about what makes your post so funny...

If you have any intention of spending more time on a forum and
interacting with other boaters, you'd better learn how to behave, or
very soon no-one will respond to you any more!

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

riverman wrote:
"Kernix" wrote
possession is 9/10th's of the law - it was left on your property - it's
yours. Or decide to sell it back to him for your estimate of storage
fees.

I'm assumin it's fiberglass. I assume you can fix it, but I have no
idea how you would. Know any know-it-all handy men? Ask them for
suggestions of fixing materials.

This post is so funny its hard to know if its even worth responding to it.

--riverman

Then kernix wrote:
What's so funny dude - with my post - why don't you explain it to us -
****ing dickhead! Can't stand assholes like you.

Although I have been warned (by riverman!) against writing responses
that will potentially offend belligerent newcomers, let me suggest a few
things:

1. "possession is 9/10ths of the law" What law? Code Napoleon? Code of
Hammurabi? Are you sure about the 9/10? It might be only 86%. Though
perhaps 92%
2. "assumin it's fiberglass" It's been pretty well established that it's
plastic.
3. "I assume you can fix it..." Do you have _any_ basis for that assumption?
4. "...but I have no idea how you would" And you offer this advice
because....?
5. "know-it-all handy men? Ask them" Sure, the guy who comes by and
unstops my drains and fixes my front porch step will know how to fix a
weathered polylink or ABS canoe.

Of course, riverman may have a totally different take on on your post...

Steve
--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

Steve Cramer wrote:
riverman wrote:
"Kernix" wrote
possession is 9/10th's of the law - it was left on your property - it's
yours. Or decide to sell it back to him for your estimate of storage
fees.

I'm assumin it's fiberglass. I assume you can fix it, but I have no
idea how you would. Know any know-it-all handy men? Ask them for
suggestions of fixing materials.

This post is so funny its hard to know if its even worth responding to it.

--riverman

Then kernix wrote:
What's so funny dude - with my post - why don't you explain it to us -
****ing dickhead! Can't stand assholes like you.

Although I have been warned (by riverman!) against writing responses
that will potentially offend belligerent newcomers, let me suggest a few
things:

1. "possession is 9/10ths of the law" What law? Code Napoleon? Code of
Hammurabi? Are you sure about the 9/10? It might be only 86%. Though
perhaps 92%
2. "assumin it's fiberglass" It's been pretty well established that it's
plastic.
3. "I assume you can fix it..." Do you have _any_ basis for that assumption?
4. "...but I have no idea how you would" And you offer this advice
because....?
5. "know-it-all handy men? Ask them" Sure, the guy who comes by and
unstops my drains and fixes my front porch step will know how to fix a
weathered polylink or ABS canoe.

Of course, riverman may have a totally different take on on your post...

Steve
--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Hee hee. No, you got it about right. This is definately not the type of
person I'd be taking legal advice from, as he is simultaneously highly
opinioned and transparently ignorant. (And I'm not just talking about
the 'gee, I think you can repair fiberglass' comment.)

But hey, at least he knows the type of asshole he can't stand.

--riverman

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

Yeah, okay - forgive me. So what you all are saying is if you are
insulted but don't respond negatively back? Yeah right.

My point being was - if it's in his possesion it's his leagally -
where's the confusion with that - how can you all not know that ends
that concern - how can you not see that?

I din't read that it was plastic - my bad - my old town is fiberglass.

And my statement of someone who is handy fixing thing was not referring
to someone who snakes out drains. I personally know a few people who
can fix friggin ANYTHING - from any part on a car, industrial equipment
maintenance, to home construction including plumbing and eletrical
work. These same people are machinist and they live for fixing things.
But excuse me - I shouldn't have suggested that.

I'm not about to not respond negatively when someone goes out of their
way to hit respond and type a smartass remark. Would any of you? And
you blame me for that. Then don't bother responding to me - cause I
won't be posting anymore.

I swear, usenet is full of the nastiest people on the net.

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

"Kernix" wrote in message
oups.com...
Yeah, okay - forgive me. So what you all are saying is if you are
insulted but don't respond negatively back? Yeah right.


No, what we are saying is that it best not to assume that you're being
insulted when you make a fool out of yourself and people notice. If you have
such a hair trigger that you feel above any sort of criticism, at any level,
you'll most certainly find Usenet pretty inciting. People who invite abuse
usually get it; people who invite constructive interaction usually get that,
too.


My point being was - if it's in his possesion it's his leagally -
where's the confusion with that - how can you all not know that ends
that concern - how can you not see that?

Oh, we got your point, but 'legally' is a pretty meaning-filled term. Should
we assume that you have the credentials to make such an assertion? Because
merely 'ending the concern' is not sufficient for something to be true. What
was so humorous about your post was your insistence that your interpretation
of the law was binding. Its still pretty cute, in a deteriorating sort of
way.


I din't read that it was plastic - my bad - my old town is fiberglass.

Ahh, so we have some common ground. What boat do you have?

And my statement of someone who is handy fixing thing was not referring
to someone who snakes out drains. I personally know a few people who
can fix friggin ANYTHING - from any part on a car, industrial equipment
maintenance, to home construction including plumbing and eletrical
work. These same people are machinist and they live for fixing things.
But excuse me - I shouldn't have suggested that.

Again, what was so funny about that is that fiberglass repair is pretty much
the most basic and simple type of boat repair; its one of the pluses of
'glass. You lay another piece of fiberglass across the tear, and its as
strong as new. No one expects that everyone can repair fiberglass, but you
obviously don't know your audience here. I have no idea what you do for a
living, but its as if you are a mechanic and someone walks into your shop
and announces that "cars can run on water, its cheaper than gas, and
probably someone with an engineering degree knows how to get the gas cap
off."



I'm not about to not respond negatively when someone goes out of their
way to hit respond and type a smartass remark. Would any of you? And
you blame me for that. Then don't bother responding to me - cause I
won't be posting anymore.

I swear, usenet is full of the nastiest people on the net.


Yeah, we've noticed that too.

--riverman

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

Kernix wrote:
Then don't bother responding to me - cause I
won't be posting anymore.

Did you buy 2 Coleman kayaks a few eeks ago?

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

Sees-koo-wee-hah-nay wrote:
Kernix wrote:
Then don't bother responding to me - cause I
won't be posting anymore.

Did you buy 2 Coleman kayaks a few eeks ago?

Make that "weeks".

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

Well, Myron, I think you meant to type "[i]t consists of a 1/4 inch
thick foam core", not "1/2 inch thick".

Otherwise, as always, wise and useful insights!


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--

================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

possession is 9/10th's of the law - it was left on your property - it's
yours. Or decide to sell it back to him for your estimate of storage
fees.

I'm assumin it's fiberglass. I assume you can fix it, but I have no
idea how you would. Know any know-it-all handy men? Ask them for
suggestions of fixing materials.

What's so funny dude - with my post - why don't you explain it to
us - ****ing dickhead! Can't stand assholes like you.

Well, you gotta admit that "possession is 9/10th's of the law"
(properly expressed there is no apostrophe in "9/10ths") is not
codified in any lawbook in the United States of America, and that
quoting a schoolyard homily like that to a lawyer or a judge is a good
way to make a minor legal issue into a major one.

Then there is the matter of your assumption. It is dead wrong. It is
not fiberglass. The way she described the material, it is almost
certainly ABS; this was clear to me before I read riverman's post, or
any other beyond the original.

Then there is your next assumption, and the "solution" that goes with
it: "I assume you can fix it, but I have no idea how you would." That
is just a monument to non-information. If you don't know, then why
would you waste everyone's time by typing so much nothing?

And finally, there is your suggestion that she ask a "know-it-all handy
m[a]n." Dude, she went to people who know all about canoes, and asked
us! Many of us have done exactly this kind of repair to our own boats.
Why on earth should she go to a handyman? To avail herself of his
expertise in sheet-rock hanging, plumbing, and carpentry?

Think about it. You chimed in and provided (A) very BAD legal advice,
and (B) utterly useless boat-repair advice. No wonder riverman thought
it was funny!


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--

================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

You know what - sorry for even trying to help - but then agian, what's
with riverman being such a dick - to actually post an insult - that's
my problem - I only responded to that. But ccome on - the dude legally
owns it - who could even say otherwise - excuse my use of a cliche
phrase.

Whatever, sorry Chris for chiming in.

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

Kernix wrote:
You know what - sorry for even trying to help - but then agian, what's
with riverman being such a dick - to actually post an insult - that's
my problem - I only responded to that. But ccome on - the dude legally
owns it - who could even say otherwise - excuse my use of a cliche
phrase.

Whatever, sorry Chris for chiming in.

You sure have your opinion about people ready soon, don't you?
Considering riverman's behaviour throughout the years on this forum, I
have yet to see him act like a dick. You, on the other hand, have
managed to act like one almost from the beginning, which is only a
couple of days.

Accusing someone of being something they aren't just because he points
out that you made a fool of yourself only serves to make you look like
an even bigger fool.


--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

"Wilko" wrote in message
...
Kernix wrote:
You know what - sorry for even trying to help - but then agian, what's
with riverman being such a dick - to actually post an insult - that's
my problem - I only responded to that. But ccome on - the dude legally
owns it - who could even say otherwise - excuse my use of a cliche
phrase.

Whatever, sorry Chris for chiming in.

You sure have your opinion about people ready soon, don't you?
Considering riverman's behaviour throughout the years on this forum, I
have yet to see him act like a dick. You, on the other hand, have
managed to act like one almost from the beginning, which is only a
couple of days.

Accusing someone of being something they aren't just because he points
out that you made a fool of yourself only serves to make you look like
an even bigger fool.


The original poster (OP) should look at this site
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/s...1_258.htm#s251
It talks about abandoned ('mislaid' in this case) property in New York
state. I find reading these legal documents quite tedious, so I might have
missed some details, but a quick perusal gives me the sense that they can
lay claim to the boat, but there are a couple of hoops to go through. They
must report to the police that this boat has been mislaid (left with the
intention to reclaim, but not reclaimed) and then the police are supposed to
take possession of it. Based on the value of the boat, they will have
possession of it for between one and three years, and after that time if the
original owner has not come forth to claim it (I'm not sure what the law
says about the police or the OP attempting to find the original owners),
then the police will award ownership to the OP.

There are certainly some mitigating factors: first of all, it appears that
boats can be a slightly tricky item, as NY has specific laws about
abandonded boats. We have run into that before here, in our discussions
about flotsam and jetsam and pulling other people's canoes off of rocks and
wanting to keep them. Secondly, the OP was not the owner of the property
when the boat was abandoned there, therefore he might not be the person who
gets to claim the boat. Thirdly, the maximum waiting time of 3 years has
already passed, so the police might waive the technicality of them being in
possession, and go ahead and award the boat to the OP anyway.

My advice to the OP, seeing as this is an Old Town boat (which implies a
pretty good boat), is to call the local sherriff or police station, describe
the situation and ask them if you can go ahead and keep it. They might know
of some law or statuate that says you are the owner of any items that were
on the property when you bought it, or they might just say 'hell, its been
over 5 years. Keep it." In that case, ask them to make a record of your
phone call in their logs, and thank them.

-------------
I once wanted to build a trailer for my river gear. I was walking along the
water catchment behind my house and saw what looked like an old axle and
bald tires sticking up out of some deep grass. I poked around closer, and
discovered that it was the upside down, rusted out hulk of a small trailer,
exactly the size I was looking for. It was not on private property, but on
the side of a public access road, and it had obviously been there for a long
time. However, it was outside a fence, behind someone's house, so I went to
the door and knocked, and a teenage girl answered. I asked if anyone was
home, and she said no, just her. I asked if she knew who owned the rusted
out axle behind their back fence, she said no, but she thinks it had been
there forever. I said I wanted to take it home and fix it and she said
'yeah, sure, go ahead. Its just a piece of junk.'

I dragged it home and did a major rebuild: stripped off all the wood,
sandblasted and painted the metal, replaced the springs, the bearings, the
tires, new wiring....the whole 9 yards. It was a labor of love and I used it
regularly. Then, about a year later, a very irate man appeared at my door
with a policeman. He was the brother of the guy who owned the house the
trailer was behind, and was accusing me of theft of his property. The
policeman took a report and told me not to use the trailer until this was
settled. My attorney looked over the report and discussed it with the county
courts, and the man dropped the charge. There were a few factors: the girl
who said 'go ahead, take it' was 18 years old and was resident in the house;
I had made a reasonable attempt at finding the owner; the property was
abandoned on limited-access public property; and I was entitled to ask the
original owner for recompensation for the improvements I had made to the
trailer, which was in excess of the value of a new trailer.

My point is that merely taking it because it was abandoned was not
sufficient. Yes, the frame had been there for about 10 years, and the
original owner did not live in the premises, but he still had an avenue for
a legal claim. If I had merely taken it without knocking on the door, and
had only done minor improvements, he could have reclaimed it even after many
years. The loophole I had fallen through was that, in registering the
trailer, I legally listed it as a 'homemade' trailer as the value of the
improvements was in excess of the value of original structure, however it
was also a previously owned trailer, and the claim to clear title could be
debated. Except that I had asked.

--riverman

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

"Sees-koo-wee-hah-nay" wrote in message
oups.com...

Sees-koo-wee-hah-nay wrote:
Kernix wrote:
Then don't bother responding to me - cause I
won't be posting anymore.

Did you buy 2 Coleman kayaks a few eeks ago?

Make that "weeks".


No, you had it right first.

--riverman
(eek!)

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

"Oci-One Kanubi" wrote in message
ps.com...
Well, Myron, I think you meant to type "[i]t consists of a 1/4 inch
thick foam core", not "1/2 inch thick".

Otherwise, as always, wise and useful insights!



Dang, I've been out of the states so long that I've gone completely metric.

--riverman

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

That is if it isn't cross-link III, which doesn't take fiberglass as well.

Brad


"riverman" wrote in message ...

"chris jung" wrote in message
...
Hi,
When we bought our house, it came with an Old Town canoe in the backyard.
We were told by our then tenants that it was owned by a previous tenant
and he was planning to come back for it. It's been 4.5 years and it's
still here and we've occasionally taken it out for small jaunts on the
local waterways (we're in the Finger Lakes region of NY). Last winter
during a wind storm, it was lifted up and whacked against a spruce tree
which cracked it midway on the left side, from the top of the gunwale to
about 12-16." No pieces of the hull are missing, though the plastic
covering the top of the gunwale wall is broken and missing sections.

We are pondering on whether it's worth repairing and how hard it would be
to fix it. We are not sure what kind of material it's made of. I went
on Old Town website but couldn't match it up to any of the current models
(no surprise). It's serial number is gone and so is any other name,
except for the "Old Town" label on the sides. Looking at the cross
section of the break, it looks like a layer of plastic, a layer of stiff
foam and another layer of plastic. This canoe is light blue on the
outside, beige/putty colored on the inside. It's pretty generic in shape
and style. While we are fixing it, we would also want to replace the
plastic that covers up the top of the gunwale walls.

We already have a different canoe that my husband & son use for fishing
(an aluminum square back Sports Pal). The Sports Pal is a nice canoe x
boat (it's sort of a hybrid) but since it's aluminum we're hesitant to
take it in rocky situations. The thought is that if we fix the Old Town
for a reasonable price, it could be used for times when we might liked to
go down a local creek.

So is an old Old Town canoe worth fixing? Is there a point where a crack
is too severe to be safely fixed? Any idea of what kind of Old Town canoe
it is in terms of materials? My digital camera charger is MIA but when
I find it I can put up some photos if that would help. And if we do fix
it, would it be ethical to claim it as our own? And if we decide it's too
difficult for us to fix, should we scrap it or donate it? And if we
donated it - who to? Are their any liability issues with donating a
cracked canoe?

Chris in lovely Ithaca NY


Definately post some pictures of it when your camera is fixed, but
generally, Old Town boats are far superior to Sports Pal boats. Your boat
is most likely a Tripper, which is a well respected and well known boat.
It could, however, be a Discovery, a Kennebec or any of several other
types...there's no telling from what you have posted. If you can measure
the length of it in a straight line from tip to tip, that would help.

However, the material it is made of is 'ABS', which is very durable and
flexible. It consists of a 1/2 inch thick foam core (stiff cream-colored
foam, as you described), sandwiched in a layer or layers of plastic
sheath. As long as the outer plastic coating is not too badly damaged, the
core and inner sheath is almost indestructable. The only thing that really
weakens it is UV rays...like if it were laying out in the sun for several
years and had some damages to the exterior coating.

The damage you describe sounds like what happens when you whack a frozen
canoe with a spruce tree. It sounds like the boat just cracked. If thats
the case, you can just fiberglass over the split; a thin layer on the
inside and another on the outside. If the tear does not go below
waterline, then you might consider just getting some sealant/glue and
basically glueing the tear shut. However, in any case you WILL need to
replace the gunnels, as the hull strength is a bit compromised so you need
a sturdy gunnel to hold it in shape. Its best to have someone look at it
in person to assess the damage and if it needs repair. Posted pictures
would help here.

You can get replacement parts via Old Town Canoe in Old Town, Maine. They
will sell gunnels, seats, thwarts, and end plates, however almost any
canoe shop can get you seats and thwarts, and any reasonable handyman
could put on wooden gunnels. But the real problem is that new OT canoes
cost in excess of $1000, so if you just took possession of this, the owner
might charge you with theft. Its best to find out the laws in your region
about abandoned property: I'm pretty sure that merely claiming it for
yourself is insufficient, and you'll have to make some effort to find the
owner, etc. You probably aren't responsible for the damage to it, but the
original owner could take possession and you may or may not get reimbursed
for the repairs.

--riverman

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

Ahh, right. I think I've heard that you can repair Crosslink if you
heat it up with a torch first and apply the glass to the hot surface,
as the heat breaks enough of the bonds and allows the fiberglass to
chemically bond to the surface. Has anyone else heard of this? Mike?
--riverman

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

riverman wrote:
"Oci-One Kanubi" wrote in message
ps.com...
Well, Myron, I think you meant to type "[i]t consists of a 1/4 inch
thick foam core", not "1/2 inch thick".

Otherwise, as always, wise and useful insights!



Dang, I've been out of the states so long that I've gone completely metric.

--riverman

So when you catch one of those monster 30" fish, are we to understand
you really mean "cm." ! :) Your old friend TnT

What to do with an injured canoe?
 

IIRC, the problem with this is, like welding aluminum, the CL3 plastic has a
narrow heat reaction threshold: not enough heat and nothing happens; a bit
too much and you have cheeseburger runoff.
But aluminum is welded all the time now, with retail equipment that lets
amateurs weld pop cans together, so I'm sure there is a way. I'd be
inclined to borrow my neighbor's CL3 boat to experiment on first.


"riverman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ahh, right. I think I've heard that you can repair Crosslink if you
heat it up with a torch first and apply the glass to the hot surface,
as the heat breaks enough of the bonds and allows the fiberglass to
chemically bond to the surface. Has anyone else heard of this? Mike?
--riverman