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$2.96 a gallon
"RG" wrote in message . .. But here's an eye opener for me. In the fall of 2002, I took my boat from MA to Florida, something that many people here on the east coast do yearly. That trip's fuel cost was about 4,300 bucks, if I recall correctly (log book not handy). In many places south of Virginia diesel was selling for about a dollar/gal at that time. Right now the same trip would be closer to 14K in fuel costs. I like boating, but I don't like it that much. So, for now anyway, the boat stays put. Fortunately I am loan free on it, so it doesn't hurt so much, but I also think that it's already too late to sell if so inclined and expect to get fair market value. But it will always be worth fair market value. The real question is just what fair market means in dollars and cents. At $3 fuel, it means one thing. At $5 fuel, it means something else. At $10 dollar fuel, you and I don't want to know. Makes a great summer cottage on the Cape, though. Can you imagine a scenario where several hours of generator time would be considered an evening's splurge? LOL! Early, after reading all this gloom and doom, I was trying to figure out how many pots of coffee I could make with 500 gallons of fuel. RCE |
$2.96 a gallon
"RCE" wrote in message ... "RG" wrote in message . .. But here's an eye opener for me. In the fall of 2002, I took my boat from MA to Florida, something that many people here on the east coast do yearly. That trip's fuel cost was about 4,300 bucks, if I recall correctly (log book not handy). In many places south of Virginia diesel was selling for about a dollar/gal at that time. Right now the same trip would be closer to 14K in fuel costs. I like boating, but I don't like it that much. So, for now anyway, the boat stays put. Fortunately I am loan free on it, so it doesn't hurt so much, but I also think that it's already too late to sell if so inclined and expect to get fair market value. But it will always be worth fair market value. The real question is just what fair market means in dollars and cents. At $3 fuel, it means one thing. At $5 fuel, it means something else. At $10 dollar fuel, you and I don't want to know. Makes a great summer cottage on the Cape, though. Can you imagine a scenario where several hours of generator time would be considered an evening's splurge? LOL! Early, after reading all this gloom and doom, I was trying to figure out how many pots of coffee I could make with 500 gallons of fuel. RCE I can't believe I've become so bad with words. Meant to say "Earlier" .... not "Early". Time for bed. RCE |
$2.96 a gallon
Doug,
Read up on the Futures Market before you make yourself look foolish. "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "RG" wrote in message . .. Until we have a "hard" solution, I have an idea. Get futures traders the phuque out of the oil business. They serve no useful purpose. Actually they do. If your business profits are significantly influenced by the price of oil, futures contracts pay a very important role in the stabilization and predictability of those profits. It's called hedging. But I suspect you knew that. The product is too important to be left up to the whims of a bunch of suits. And, whims is exactly what they are. Did you notice that when that Saudi refinery was attacked a month or two ago, the price hiccup was nothing compared to the current one, which is based on absolutely nothing? |
$2.96 a gallon
I can't believe I've become so bad with words. Meant to say "Earlier"
.... not "Early". Time for bed. Nighty night. |
$2.96 a gallon
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 22:23:46 -0400, JimH wrote:
Remind me again on what Carter did in the '70's during the high gasoline pricing and shortages. ;-) Short memory, Jim? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/...ps_energy.html But it matters little what Carter did. Reagan reversed most of Carter's energy initiatives believing the market would answer the nation's energy woes. It has, but now, it seems some are complaining about the cost. |
$2.96 a gallon
RCE wrote:
"RG" wrote in message m... That's a bit dramatic. It might create a buyer's market for boats, but not much more. For the average boater, fuel costs are a relativley small part of the overall cost of boating. In today's world, I absolutely agree. The more recent discussions in this thread have been focused on much more extreme scenarios that could possibly play out in the future. Do you really belive that boat owners will default on their loans just because fuel costs have increased? Yes, if we are talking per gallon fuel costs deep into double digits, possibly triple digits, and even possibly unavailable at any price. That is the framework in which my comment was made, and which the discussion over the last 24 hours has been focused in this thread. You may think such a scenario unthinkable, but many believe it is not. Everyone's situation is different, of course, depending on what kind of boat they have and how and what they use it for. But here's an eye opener for me. In the fall of 2002, I took my boat from MA to Florida, something that many people here on the east coast do yearly. That trip's fuel cost was about 4,300 bucks, if I recall correctly (log book not handy). In many places south of Virginia diesel was selling for about a dollar/gal at that time. Right now the same trip would be closer to 14K in fuel costs. I like boating, but I don't like it that much. So, for now anyway, the boat stays put. Fortunately I am loan free on it, so it doesn't hurt so much, but I also think that it's already too late to sell if so inclined and expect to get fair market value. Makes a great summer cottage on the Cape, though. RCE I'd fly south and charter a boat or borrow a friend's. |
$2.96 a gallon
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
... All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. Oh come on, Harry. Give the guy some credit for one or two other things. Remember that he's good at standing on his hind legs and begging for a pretzel, or a pat on the head from Karl Rove. |
$2.96 a gallon
Harry Krause wrote:
Don White wrote: RCE wrote: "RG" wrote in message m... That's a bit dramatic. It might create a buyer's market for boats, but not much more. For the average boater, fuel costs are a relativley small part of the overall cost of boating. In today's world, I absolutely agree. The more recent discussions in this thread have been focused on much more extreme scenarios that could possibly play out in the future. Do you really belive that boat owners will default on their loans just because fuel costs have increased? Yes, if we are talking per gallon fuel costs deep into double digits, possibly triple digits, and even possibly unavailable at any price. That is the framework in which my comment was made, and which the discussion over the last 24 hours has been focused in this thread. You may think such a scenario unthinkable, but many believe it is not. Everyone's situation is different, of course, depending on what kind of boat they have and how and what they use it for. But here's an eye opener for me. In the fall of 2002, I took my boat from MA to Florida, something that many people here on the east coast do yearly. That trip's fuel cost was about 4,300 bucks, if I recall correctly (log book not handy). In many places south of Virginia diesel was selling for about a dollar/gal at that time. Right now the same trip would be closer to 14K in fuel costs. I like boating, but I don't like it that much. So, for now anyway, the boat stays put. Fortunately I am loan free on it, so it doesn't hurt so much, but I also think that it's already too late to sell if so inclined and expect to get fair market value. Makes a great summer cottage on the Cape, though. RCE I'd fly south and charter a boat or borrow a friend's. I have the vaguest memories of Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter trying to push for an energy independence policy, and Ronald Reagan killing the idea, saying the private sector would provide. Provide indeed. For itself. I've not seen any aspect of the petrol industry that makes me believe anything it claims or says. I don't for a New York Minute believe any of the b.s. it or its accountants put forth as statements on the amount or percentage of profit the industry "earns." Those books are cooked 1000 different ways. We're going to be marking time until we have a new President and Congress, one that is willing to really take on the difficult issues, stop lying to the American public, and put the future of the majority of people in this country first. All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. Up here back in the 70s our federal gov't created a new oil company by buying out the old Fina Oil Company. This was paid for by a 3 cents per liter surtax on gas. The new company... Petro Canada. The idea was to sell gas at a fair price and force the big American companies to toe the line. Then that %^$&^ smarmy conservative government of Mulroney came to power and sold the company back to us as shares. Now it's no better than the rest. http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/petrocanada/ |
$2.96 a gallon
"Don White" wrote in message ... RCE wrote: "RG" wrote in message m... That's a bit dramatic. It might create a buyer's market for boats, but not much more. For the average boater, fuel costs are a relativley small part of the overall cost of boating. In today's world, I absolutely agree. The more recent discussions in this thread have been focused on much more extreme scenarios that could possibly play out in the future. Do you really belive that boat owners will default on their loans just because fuel costs have increased? Yes, if we are talking per gallon fuel costs deep into double digits, possibly triple digits, and even possibly unavailable at any price. That is the framework in which my comment was made, and which the discussion over the last 24 hours has been focused in this thread. You may think such a scenario unthinkable, but many believe it is not. Everyone's situation is different, of course, depending on what kind of boat they have and how and what they use it for. But here's an eye opener for me. In the fall of 2002, I took my boat from MA to Florida, something that many people here on the east coast do yearly. That trip's fuel cost was about 4,300 bucks, if I recall correctly (log book not handy). In many places south of Virginia diesel was selling for about a dollar/gal at that time. Right now the same trip would be closer to 14K in fuel costs. I like boating, but I don't like it that much. So, for now anyway, the boat stays put. Fortunately I am loan free on it, so it doesn't hurt so much, but I also think that it's already too late to sell if so inclined and expect to get fair market value. Makes a great summer cottage on the Cape, though. RCE I'd fly south and charter a boat or borrow a friend's. The fun and adventure was the voyage, not the destination. Besides, I will not fly commercial unless it's an absolute emergency and have no other options. RCE |
$2.96 a gallon
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:13:30 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: I have the vaguest memories of Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter trying to push for an energy independence policy, and Ronald Reagan killing the idea, saying the private sector would provide. Provide indeed. For itself. I've not seen any aspect of the petrol industry that makes me believe anything it claims or says. I don't for a New York Minute believe any of the b.s. it or its accountants put forth as statements on the amount or percentage of profit the industry "earns." Those books are cooked 1000 different ways. We're going to be marking time until we have a new President and Congress, one that is willing to really take on the difficult issues, stop lying to the American public, and put the future of the majority of people in this country first. All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. Same old ****, huh Harry? The question had to do with how to handle the problem, not who to blame for it. Get off it. -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
$2.96 a gallon
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:31:17 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: Don White wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: RCE wrote: "RG" wrote in message m... That's a bit dramatic. It might create a buyer's market for boats, but not much more. For the average boater, fuel costs are a relativley small part of the overall cost of boating. In today's world, I absolutely agree. The more recent discussions in this thread have been focused on much more extreme scenarios that could possibly play out in the future. Do you really belive that boat owners will default on their loans just because fuel costs have increased? Yes, if we are talking per gallon fuel costs deep into double digits, possibly triple digits, and even possibly unavailable at any price. That is the framework in which my comment was made, and which the discussion over the last 24 hours has been focused in this thread. You may think such a scenario unthinkable, but many believe it is not. Everyone's situation is different, of course, depending on what kind of boat they have and how and what they use it for. But here's an eye opener for me. In the fall of 2002, I took my boat from MA to Florida, something that many people here on the east coast do yearly. That trip's fuel cost was about 4,300 bucks, if I recall correctly (log book not handy). In many places south of Virginia diesel was selling for about a dollar/gal at that time. Right now the same trip would be closer to 14K in fuel costs. I like boating, but I don't like it that much. So, for now anyway, the boat stays put. Fortunately I am loan free on it, so it doesn't hurt so much, but I also think that it's already too late to sell if so inclined and expect to get fair market value. Makes a great summer cottage on the Cape, though. RCE I'd fly south and charter a boat or borrow a friend's. I have the vaguest memories of Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter trying to push for an energy independence policy, and Ronald Reagan killing the idea, saying the private sector would provide. Provide indeed. For itself. I've not seen any aspect of the petrol industry that makes me believe anything it claims or says. I don't for a New York Minute believe any of the b.s. it or its accountants put forth as statements on the amount or percentage of profit the industry "earns." Those books are cooked 1000 different ways. We're going to be marking time until we have a new President and Congress, one that is willing to really take on the difficult issues, stop lying to the American public, and put the future of the majority of people in this country first. All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. Up here back in the 70s our federal gov't created a new oil company by buying out the old Fina Oil Company. This was paid for by a 3 cents per liter surtax on gas. The new company... Petro Canada. The idea was to sell gas at a fair price and force the big American companies to toe the line. Then that %^$&^ smarmy conservative government of Mulroney came to power and sold the company back to us as shares. Now it's no better than the rest. http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/petrocanada/ I've never been convinced that production or distribution of energy, operation of infrastructure, operation of hospitals, et cetera, should be in the hands of the private sector in the absence of strong governmental and consumer oversight. Communes and the abolishment of private ownership of *anything* is really the way to go. -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
$2.96 a gallon
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:13:30 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: I have the vaguest memories of Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter trying to push for an energy independence policy, and Ronald Reagan killing the idea, saying the private sector would provide. Provide indeed. For itself. I've not seen any aspect of the petrol industry that makes me believe anything it claims or says. I don't for a New York Minute believe any of the b.s. it or its accountants put forth as statements on the amount or percentage of profit the industry "earns." Those books are cooked 1000 different ways. We're going to be marking time until we have a new President and Congress, one that is willing to really take on the difficult issues, stop lying to the American public, and put the future of the majority of people in this country first. All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. It's all Henry Ford's fault. RCE |
$2.96 a gallon
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... RCE wrote: On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:13:30 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: I have the vaguest memories of Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter trying to push for an energy independence policy, and Ronald Reagan killing the idea, saying the private sector would provide. Provide indeed. For itself. I've not seen any aspect of the petrol industry that makes me believe anything it claims or says. I don't for a New York Minute believe any of the b.s. it or its accountants put forth as statements on the amount or percentage of profit the industry "earns." Those books are cooked 1000 different ways. We're going to be marking time until we have a new President and Congress, one that is willing to really take on the difficult issues, stop lying to the American public, and put the future of the majority of people in this country first. All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. It's all Henry Ford's fault. RCE No doubt. So, what's the mileage on that 18-cylinder BMW, anyway? :} Average of about 15 mpg. All things considered, that's not too bad for a 500 hp V10 and a 4012 lb vehicle. It's been slowly going up, although I only have 1800 miles on the car. RCE |
$2.96 a gallon
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... RCE wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... RCE wrote: On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:13:30 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: I have the vaguest memories of Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter trying to push for an energy independence policy, and Ronald Reagan killing the idea, saying the private sector would provide. Provide indeed. For itself. I've not seen any aspect of the petrol industry that makes me believe anything it claims or says. I don't for a New York Minute believe any of the b.s. it or its accountants put forth as statements on the amount or percentage of profit the industry "earns." Those books are cooked 1000 different ways. We're going to be marking time until we have a new President and Congress, one that is willing to really take on the difficult issues, stop lying to the American public, and put the future of the majority of people in this country first. All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. It's all Henry Ford's fault. RCE No doubt. So, what's the mileage on that 18-cylinder BMW, anyway? :} Average of about 15 mpg. All things considered, that's not too bad for a 500 hp V10 and a 4012 lb vehicle. It's been slowly going up, although I only have 1800 miles on the car. RCE I get about 24 mpg highway with my V8 SUV (selective AWD) at 60 mph. Now this is curious: my car is in the shop getting a minor butt dent repaired, and I have a V6 SUV loaner, and it only gets about 19 mpg at 60 mph. Smaller engines does not automatically mean better fuel mileage. I have to admit, the BMW drops to about 13 mpg at 130 mph though. :-) I am not hurting that badly with the fuel price increases because, even though I have a car collection that all get terrible mileage, I don't drive them much. I figured out the other day that if you minus out several trips back and forth to Florida while we were selling the house and my recent trip out to Denver and back, I do about 100 miles a week combined on all the vehicles, often less. Lately, I've been burning more fuel in the tractor, finishing a walking English garden that I started last fall. My fuel usage will go up a little bit during the summer because I'll use the collection more often, but other than local trips to the store or an occasional cruise night gathering, I pretty much stay home. The boat is a 40 mile drive each way, but when I go there, I stay for 3 or 4 days and usually take the motorcycle. RCE |
$2.96 a gallon
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. I live about 40 miles from Washington, DC, but, fortunately, we mostly take the commuter bus for work there and downtown appointments. That's about $8.00 for the round-trip. With gas at $3.00 a gallon, and typical heavy commuter traffic, it makes no economic sense to drive downtown. We're about five miles from the commuter bus stop, and it is an easy drive with little traffic anytime day or night. Fuel burn on the remaining power boat is controllable. I think it is time to buy another used canoe for paddling around, or even a nice little rowboat for local use. Politics and politicians aside, I am very concerned for the future. Conservation won't solve the problem, nor will "alternative" fuel sources or technology. Not just the US, but the whole world functions as a result of the availability of oil and it's gone way too far to reverse. I think one of two things will happen in the next 10-15 years. Either the world will truly become a global community under common law and regulations, dividing up remaining resources to survive, or we are heading for a major world conflict .... WWIII basically.... and the victors (if any) will control the remaining resources. I don't see any other alternative on the horizon. Do you? RCE (my glass is pretty much half empty, lately) |
$2.96 a gallon
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. RCE wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. I live about 40 miles from Washington, DC, but, fortunately, we mostly take the commuter bus for work there and downtown appointments. That's about $8.00 for the round-trip. With gas at $3.00 a gallon, and typical heavy commuter traffic, it makes no economic sense to drive downtown. We're about five miles from the commuter bus stop, and it is an easy drive with little traffic anytime day or night. Fuel burn on the remaining power boat is controllable. I think it is time to buy another used canoe for paddling around, or even a nice little rowboat for local use. Politics and politicians aside, I am very concerned for the future. Conservation won't solve the problem, nor will "alternative" fuel sources or technology. Not just the US, but the whole world functions as a result of the availability of oil and it's gone way too far to reverse. I think one of two things will happen in the next 10-15 years. Either the world will truly become a global community under common law and regulations, dividing up remaining resources to survive, or we are heading for a major world conflict .... WWIII basically.... and the victors (if any) will control the remaining resources. I don't see any other alternative on the horizon. Do you? RCE (my glass is pretty much half empty, lately) I don't hold out much hope for this country, because we've been ignoring our serious problems for far too long. More and more Americans are being left behind, with the American dream hardly even a dream anymore. What little is left of the social contract is being eroded. Wait til the baby boomers realize they've been screwed out of health care coverage. We might yet have a revolution in this country. Health care will be the least of our worries. And it's not a problem unique to the US. It's a world problem. RCE |
$2.96 a gallon
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:16:46 -0400, "RCE" wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... RCE wrote: On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:13:30 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: I have the vaguest memories of Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter trying to push for an energy independence policy, and Ronald Reagan killing the idea, saying the private sector would provide. Provide indeed. For itself. I've not seen any aspect of the petrol industry that makes me believe anything it claims or says. I don't for a New York Minute believe any of the b.s. it or its accountants put forth as statements on the amount or percentage of profit the industry "earns." Those books are cooked 1000 different ways. We're going to be marking time until we have a new President and Congress, one that is willing to really take on the difficult issues, stop lying to the American public, and put the future of the majority of people in this country first. All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. It's all Henry Ford's fault. RCE No doubt. So, what's the mileage on that 18-cylinder BMW, anyway? :} Average of about 15 mpg. All things considered, that's not too bad for a 500 hp V10 and a 4012 lb vehicle. It's been slowly going up, although I only have 1800 miles on the car. RCE If it's any consolation - the Mustang started off at 19mpg. Now, at about 6100 miles, it's up to 23.4. -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
$2.96 a gallon
"JohnH" wrote in message
... All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. Same old ****, huh Harry? Two years ago: "I'm a WAR president!" Last week: "I'm the decider!" Seriously, John. Do you actually have higher expectations from your president than you do from the worst of your students? |
$2.96 a gallon
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:53:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message .. . All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. Same old ****, huh Harry? Two years ago: "I'm a WAR president!" Last week: "I'm the decider!" Seriously, John. Do you actually have higher expectations from your president than you do from the worst of your students? Same old ****, huh Doug? I'd 'expect' the political crap in another newsgroup. I made no comments about Bush, one way or the other. -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
$2.96 a gallon
"JohnH" wrote in message ... On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:53:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message . .. All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. Same old ****, huh Harry? Two years ago: "I'm a WAR president!" Last week: "I'm the decider!" Seriously, John. Do you actually have higher expectations from your president than you do from the worst of your students? Same old ****, huh Doug? I'd 'expect' the political crap in another newsgroup. I made no comments about Bush, one way or the other. -- 'Til next time, John H Well, you ARE participating, John. About my statements: How could I possibly think about the president without remembering things he says which make a lasting impression? |
$2.96 a gallon
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:52:43 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:53:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message ... All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. Same old ****, huh Harry? Two years ago: "I'm a WAR president!" Last week: "I'm the decider!" Seriously, John. Do you actually have higher expectations from your president than you do from the worst of your students? Same old ****, huh Doug? I'd 'expect' the political crap in another newsgroup. I made no comments about Bush, one way or the other. -- 'Til next time, John H Well, you ARE participating, John. About my statements: How could I possibly think ... I don't know. -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
$2.96 a gallon
"JohnH" wrote in message ... On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:52:43 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message . .. On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:53:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message m... All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack. Same old ****, huh Harry? Two years ago: "I'm a WAR president!" Last week: "I'm the decider!" Seriously, John. Do you actually have higher expectations from your president than you do from the worst of your students? Same old ****, huh Doug? I'd 'expect' the political crap in another newsgroup. I made no comments about Bush, one way or the other. -- 'Til next time, John H Well, you ARE participating, John. About my statements: How could I possibly think ... I don't know. Well, there you go. Your boy would like us to pretend we didn't notice his stupidity, but it ain't gonna happen. |
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