Another kayak roof rack question
 

Hello all,

I've searched and searched but nothing seems to hit my questions
exactly. I currently drive a Scion xA and am looking to install a
Yakima roof rack. I am also in the market for two single person kayaks.
The crossbars for the Yakima rack are 48", is that enough room for two
kayaks? I believe the carrying capacity is 168lbs.

If not, my next option would be inflatables or folding kayaks. Could
anyone offer any insight to a fairly inexpensive decent inflatable? I'm
not looking to cover more than class1-2 rapids, and most likely just
paddling around flat water. I had seen a Coleman Sport 1-person, and a
Challenger K-1 inflatable, but folks on another kayaking website said
they were garbage. Any ideas? I caught the bug after renting some
kayaks and doing about 8 miles down the Shenendoah, and I'd love to own
my own even with my diminutive automobile.

Thanks a million!
Dominic

Another kayak roof rack question
 

Another kayak roof rack question
 

The rack bars are manufactured wider than 48 inch but an installer can not
install them wider than the vehicle (this as explained to me). You can
purchase wider bars and replace the shorter bars with wider ones using the
same mounts. To get a better idea of how wide you will need, measuring the
boat at it's widest, times two, will give you an idea of how wide your bars
need to be to accommodate both boats. Depending on the vehicle, rack
placement may be close together so will end up to be under the widest part
of the boat. If you are able to separate the bars far enough so as to
support the boats at less than maximum width you may be able to get away
with the 48 inch bars.

Bill


wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello all,

I've searched and searched but nothing seems to hit my questions
exactly. I currently drive a Scion xA and am looking to install a
Yakima roof rack. I am also in the market for two single person kayaks.
The crossbars for the Yakima rack are 48", is that enough room for two
kayaks? I believe the carrying capacity is 168lbs.

If not, my next option would be inflatables or folding kayaks. Could
anyone offer any insight to a fairly inexpensive decent inflatable? I'm
not looking to cover more than class1-2 rapids, and most likely just
paddling around flat water. I had seen a Coleman Sport 1-person, and a
Challenger K-1 inflatable, but folks on another kayaking website said
they were garbage. Any ideas? I caught the bug after renting some
kayaks and doing about 8 miles down the Shenendoah, and I'd love to own
my own even with my diminutive automobile.

Thanks a million!
Dominic

Another kayak roof rack question
 

I have just gone through this exercise. I bought a 12 foot rec boat last
year and am looking to pick up a 13 foot necky manitou this year. I
upgraded my CRV factory rack to a Yakima with control towers for space and
weight reasons. I found the 48" bar was technically wide enough but the
position of the control towers did not leave enough room to mount my Mako
saddle in the needed spot. I have swapped for the 58" bars (same price).
My rec boat is 28" wide and the manitou (which I hope to have soon) is
nearly 25". Even if your two kayaks are 24" you may have difficulty with a
48" bar (unless you go with a carrier that holds the kayak on its side which
may be best for your vehicle). I considered some of the sideways systems
like the kayak stacker or hull raiser so I could stick with the 48" bars,
but read some not so favorable reviews of those products online. They may
be solid solutions, but most folks seem to agree the easiest/safest way to
mount/carry 2 rec kayaks is flat on saddles. Others may have positive
experiences with side cradling systems. I'm just going by what I could find
online. I'm certainly no expert as I'm still learning all this, but hope
this helps.

Dan


wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello all,

I've searched and searched but nothing seems to hit my questions
exactly. I currently drive a Scion xA and am looking to install a
Yakima roof rack. I am also in the market for two single person kayaks.
The crossbars for the Yakima rack are 48", is that enough room for two
kayaks? I believe the carrying capacity is 168lbs.

If not, my next option would be inflatables or folding kayaks. Could
anyone offer any insight to a fairly inexpensive decent inflatable? I'm
not looking to cover more than class1-2 rapids, and most likely just
paddling around flat water. I had seen a Coleman Sport 1-person, and a
Challenger K-1 inflatable, but folks on another kayaking website said
they were garbage. Any ideas? I caught the bug after renting some
kayaks and doing about 8 miles down the Shenendoah, and I'd love to own
my own even with my diminutive automobile.

Thanks a million!
Dominic

Another kayak roof rack question
 

Bill wrote:
The rack bars are manufactured wider than 48 inch but an installer can not
install them wider than the vehicle (this as explained to me). You can
purchase wider bars and replace the shorter bars with wider ones using the
same mounts. To get a better idea of how wide you will need, measuring the
boat at it's widest, times two, will give you an idea of how wide your bars
need to be to accommodate both boats. Depending on the vehicle, rack
placement may be close together so will end up to be under the widest part
of the boat. If you are able to separate the bars far enough so as to
support the boats at less than maximum width you may be able to get away
with the 48 inch bars.

A 48 bar rack can handle considerably more than 2, 24" wide boats. If
the outer cradles are mounted at the ends of the bars, you will easily
gain at least another 6" in capacity and possibly more, as the boats
will overhang the ends of the bars.

Another kayak roof rack question
 

Dan wrote:
I considered some of the sideways systems
like the kayak stacker or hull raiser so I could stick with the 48" bars,
but read some not so favorable reviews of those products online. They may
be solid solutions, but most folks seem to agree the easiest/safest way to
mount/carry 2 rec kayaks is flat on saddles. Others may have positive
experiences with side cradling systems. I'm just going by what I could find
online. I'm certainly no expert as I'm still learning all this, but hope
this helps.

I was hoping to use the Yakima stacker system, which is one of the
systems where the kayaks are on their side. I would be using the bar
padding (as reccommended by Yakima) and I can't think of any reasons
this would be bad... if you have them could you point me to these
negative reviews. I'd hate to buy two new shiny kayaks, and the $175
for the stacker attachments just to ruin them.

I am careful about altering my driving habit to my load, so if the
complaints are more along the lines of user error, then I'm not so
worried. Like driving 85MPH with two kayaks on a Scion xA in 30 MPH
winds, or not using the bar padding and the boat was damaged... those
types of complaints are just stupidity on the owners behalf... but if
there are legitimate concerns I would like to know them.

Thanks again,
- Dominic

Another kayak roof rack question
 

I think with a taller roofed vehicle, that is higher than a sedan, the 58"
bars would be more versitile as well. I use them on the cap of my Toyota
Tacoma, with stackers, I can get 6 white water boats up there easily, or two
WW canoes, two sea yaks and 3 WW boats, all kinds of configs as I have alot
of boats. Go with the 58's.

"Dan" wrote in message
. com...
I have just gone through this exercise. I bought a 12 foot rec boat last
year and am looking to pick up a 13 foot necky manitou this year. I
upgraded my CRV factory rack to a Yakima with control towers for space and
weight reasons. I found the 48" bar was technically wide enough but the
position of the control towers did not leave enough room to mount my Mako
saddle in the needed spot. I have swapped for the 58" bars (same price).
My rec boat is 28" wide and the manitou (which I hope to have soon) is
nearly 25". Even if your two kayaks are 24" you may have difficulty with
a
48" bar (unless you go with a carrier that holds the kayak on its side
which
may be best for your vehicle). I considered some of the sideways systems
like the kayak stacker or hull raiser so I could stick with the 48" bars,
but read some not so favorable reviews of those products online. They may
be solid solutions, but most folks seem to agree the easiest/safest way to
mount/carry 2 rec kayaks is flat on saddles. Others may have positive
experiences with side cradling systems. I'm just going by what I could
find
online. I'm certainly no expert as I'm still learning all this, but hope
this helps.

Dan


wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello all,

I've searched and searched but nothing seems to hit my questions
exactly. I currently drive a Scion xA and am looking to install a
Yakima roof rack. I am also in the market for two single person kayaks.
The crossbars for the Yakima rack are 48", is that enough room for two
kayaks? I believe the carrying capacity is 168lbs.

If not, my next option would be inflatables or folding kayaks. Could
anyone offer any insight to a fairly inexpensive decent inflatable? I'm
not looking to cover more than class1-2 rapids, and most likely just
paddling around flat water. I had seen a Coleman Sport 1-person, and a
Challenger K-1 inflatable, but folks on another kayaking website said
they were garbage. Any ideas? I caught the bug after renting some
kayaks and doing about 8 miles down the Shenendoah, and I'd love to own
my own even with my diminutive automobile.

Thanks a million!
Dominic

Another kayak roof rack question
 

For rack system reviews look he
http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/Accessories.html

There are quite a few negative comments about the hull raiser. I was on the
fence about the kayak stacker. The stacker isn't going to ruin your boats
from what I read. It's just more difficult if you have a tall vehicle to
get it up there and all tied down compared to saddles. It also seems geared
to WW boats. I found this Xterra owner's story helpful.

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/...;f=32;t=000179

Clearly the kayak stacker seems to work fine for some folks as another post
stated. I went for ease of use.

Dan



wrote in message
oups.com...

Dan wrote:
I considered some of the sideways systems
like the kayak stacker or hull raiser so I could stick with the 48" bars,
but read some not so favorable reviews of those products online. They
may
be solid solutions, but most folks seem to agree the easiest/safest way
to
mount/carry 2 rec kayaks is flat on saddles. Others may have positive
experiences with side cradling systems. I'm just going by what I could
find
online. I'm certainly no expert as I'm still learning all this, but hope
this helps.

I was hoping to use the Yakima stacker system, which is one of the
systems where the kayaks are on their side. I would be using the bar
padding (as reccommended by Yakima) and I can't think of any reasons
this would be bad... if you have them could you point me to these
negative reviews. I'd hate to buy two new shiny kayaks, and the $175
for the stacker attachments just to ruin them.

I am careful about altering my driving habit to my load, so if the
complaints are more along the lines of user error, then I'm not so
worried. Like driving 85MPH with two kayaks on a Scion xA in 30 MPH
winds, or not using the bar padding and the boat was damaged... those
types of complaints are just stupidity on the owners behalf... but if
there are legitimate concerns I would like to know them.

Thanks again,
- Dominic

Another kayak roof rack question
 

Melissa wrote:
The Yakima racks with "Stackers" should be able to fit two boats very
securely on your car with the 48' cross bars, but if you want, I see
no problem with getting the 58 inch bars (I use 58 inch bars on my
Subaru GL wagon, and I've carried two single and one tandem sea
kayaks on it without any problem). Most of the time, however, I just
carry one or two singles, both in the old TLC cradles (these work
better with my hard chine boats than the newer "Mako" cradles). I
tried the Mako cradles at one point, and returned them right away.

Now, I too have been told that we *shouldn't* use cross bars that
extend beyond the sides of the car, but I've been using my long bars
for many years now, and 1) they've been very useful in that
configuration, and 2) I haven't yet been arrested for it. :-)

58" bars are the minimum for serious boaters, I think. The issue isn't
so much getting arresting as clipping something, say a passing car or a
McDonalds's drivethrough window, with the end of the bar. Rule of thumb:
bar ends--and anything mounted on the bars--should not extend past the
end of your mirrors.

The old vertical bar Yakima stackers are the best, the new vertical bar
stackers are about as good. Avoid the inverted U's, they will not stay
upright. OP was going to haul rec boats. Fine, slap them on the bars
edgewise and head out. Just tie them down to each bar plus bow and stern.

Steve

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Another kayak roof rack question
 

Most kayaks are 24" or less. Even a little overhang is ok. Yakima (and
others) make wider bars. Check local laws, but typically bars can be as wide
as the furthest point of auto to the left, and 6 inches wider to the right
than the furthest part of car. I'd go with rigid if possible, but most
anything is still a lot a fun.

Another kayak roof rack question
 

Steve Cramer wrote:
Melissa wrote:

The Yakima racks with "Stackers" should be able to fit two boats very
securely on your car with the 48' cross bars, but if you want, I see
no problem with getting the 58 inch bars (I use 58 inch bars on my
Subaru GL wagon, and I've carried two single and one tandem sea
kayaks on it without any problem). Most of the time, however, I just
carry one or two singles, both in the old TLC cradles (these work
better with my hard chine boats than the newer "Mako" cradles). I
tried the Mako cradles at one point, and returned them right away.

Now, I too have been told that we *shouldn't* use cross bars that
extend beyond the sides of the car, but I've been using my long bars
for many years now, and 1) they've been very useful in that
configuration, and 2) I haven't yet been arrested for it. :-)


58" bars are the minimum for serious boaters, I think.

Excuse me? So now, the "seriousness" of a kayaker is measured by the
length of the bars on their roof rack? What kind of ridiculous statement
is that?

One should purchase the bars that fit their car and carrying needs, not
some arbitrary length that you deem worthy. I easily fit 2, 16'-19' sea
kayaks and a paddle case (or two bikes) on 48" bars, which happens to be
the size that fits my car best. Extra bar length would be nothing more
than a hazard.

The issue isn't
so much getting arresting as clipping something, say a passing car or a
McDonalds's drivethrough window, with the end of the bar.

How about you or a pedestrian whacking their head on the protruding end?
I'll bet if you asked rack manufacturers, that would be their #1
concern, since McDonald's drivethrough windows can't sue them.

Rule of thumb:
bar ends--and anything mounted on the bars--should not extend past the
end of your mirrors.

That seems reasonable, though local laws may not allow it.

The old vertical bar Yakima stackers are the best, the new vertical bar
stackers are about as good. Avoid the inverted U's, they will not stay
upright. OP was going to haul rec boats. Fine, slap them on the bars
edgewise and head out. Just tie them down to each bar plus bow and stern.

I would never use stackers for carrying sea kayaks, nor would I use
J-cradles. Neither holds the boat as securely as standard cradles and
both put more stress on the rack, due to the leverage they create and
the increased sail area of boats sitting on their sides.

Another kayak roof rack question
 

It seems obvious the word "serious" pertains to being ready for any
hauling,strapping,tying, what have you situation, for some trips overkill,
and very much needed for others. I really do not think she meant you , me,
or anyone else was "less" of a paddler because we have shorter
bars.........bar envy anyone? lol
Gosh but I hate Political Correctness

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:h1WSf.862$3t1.238@trndny08...
Steve Cramer wrote:
Melissa wrote:

The Yakima racks with "Stackers" should be able to fit two boats very
securely on your car with the 48' cross bars, but if you want, I see
no problem with getting the 58 inch bars (I use 58 inch bars on my
Subaru GL wagon, and I've carried two single and one tandem sea
kayaks on it without any problem). Most of the time, however, I just
carry one or two singles, both in the old TLC cradles (these work
better with my hard chine boats than the newer "Mako" cradles). I
tried the Mako cradles at one point, and returned them right away.

Now, I too have been told that we *shouldn't* use cross bars that
extend beyond the sides of the car, but I've been using my long bars
for many years now, and 1) they've been very useful in that
configuration, and 2) I haven't yet been arrested for it. :-)


58" bars are the minimum for serious boaters, I think.

Excuse me? So now, the "seriousness" of a kayaker is measured by the
length of the bars on their roof rack? What kind of ridiculous statement
is that?

One should purchase the bars that fit their car and carrying needs, not
some arbitrary length that you deem worthy. I easily fit 2, 16'-19' sea
kayaks and a paddle case (or two bikes) on 48" bars, which happens to be
the size that fits my car best. Extra bar length would be nothing more
than a hazard.

The issue isn't
so much getting arresting as clipping something, say a passing car or a

McDonalds's drivethrough window, with the end of the bar.

How about you or a pedestrian whacking their head on the protruding end?
I'll bet if you asked rack manufacturers, that would be their #1
concern, since McDonald's drivethrough windows can't sue them.

Rule of thumb:
bar ends--and anything mounted on the bars--should not extend past the
end of your mirrors.

That seems reasonable, though local laws may not allow it.

The old vertical bar Yakima stackers are the best, the new vertical bar
stackers are about as good. Avoid the inverted U's, they will not stay
upright. OP was going to haul rec boats. Fine, slap them on the bars
edgewise and head out. Just tie them down to each bar plus bow and
stern.

I would never use stackers for carrying sea kayaks, nor would I use
J-cradles. Neither holds the boat as securely as standard cradles and
both put more stress on the rack, due to the leverage they create and
the increased sail area of boats sitting on their sides.

Another kayak roof rack question
 

Brian Nystrom wrote:
Steve Cramer wrote:

Melissa wrote:

The Yakima racks with "Stackers" should be able to fit two boats very
securely on your car with the 48' cross bars, but if you want, I see
no problem with getting the 58 inch bars (I use 58 inch bars on my
Subaru GL wagon, and I've carried two single and one tandem sea
kayaks on it without any problem). Most of the time, however, I just
carry one or two singles, both in the old TLC cradles (these work
better with my hard chine boats than the newer "Mako" cradles). I
tried the Mako cradles at one point, and returned them right away.

Now, I too have been told that we *shouldn't* use cross bars that
extend beyond the sides of the car, but I've been using my long bars
for many years now, and 1) they've been very useful in that
configuration, and 2) I haven't yet been arrested for it. :-)

58" bars are the minimum for serious boaters, I think.

Excuse me? So now, the "seriousness" of a kayaker is measured by the
length of the bars on their roof rack? What kind of ridiculous statement
is that?

It's the one I made, OK? Jesus, Brian, don't you have better things to
get exercised about?

One should purchase the bars that fit their car and carrying needs, not
some arbitrary length that you deem worthy. I easily fit 2, 16'-19' sea
kayaks and a paddle case (or two bikes) on 48" bars, which happens to be
the size that fits my car best. Extra bar length would be nothing more
than a hazard.

Unless you needed more space, which many of us, who carry 4--count 'em,
4--16-19 foot boats, or 5-6 WW boats, or two open canoes on the roof
sometimes do. Thereby requiring one half the number of cars to drive to
the put-in. I need 58" bars because I paddle a lot of different boats
and types of water with a lot of people. Folks around here consider me a
serious boater (and that's the word I used, BTW, not "kayaker," which is
more limited) partly because of that, not because of the length of the bars.

To you statement that bars should fit one's car and carrying needs, my
only response can be "Duh!"

The issue isn't so much getting arresting as clipping something, say a
passing car or a McDonalds's drivethrough window, with the end of the
bar.

How about you or a pedestrian whacking their head on the protruding end?
I'll bet if you asked rack manufacturers, that would be their #1
concern, since McDonald's drivethrough windows can't sue them.

Read the next paragraph. Your pedestrian would have to be walking inside
my mirrors. Yes, my passengers have on occasion bumped their heads. But
they are capable of learning, and typically don't do it more than twice.
AFAIK, there has been no brain damage, but I'll keep watcing for it and
tell you as soon as some crops up.

Rule of thumb: bar ends--and anything mounted on the bars--should not
extend past the end of your mirrors.

That seems reasonable, though local laws may not allow it.

See, Brian, if you'd read another 2 lines before shooting off your
keyboard, you'd have seen that my bar length is totally reasonable. To
be honest, I don't know what our local laws allow. A search of the
Official Code of Georgia, Annotated, for combinations of car,
automobile, motor vehicle, rack and/or overhang didn't produce anything.
All I know is, the police have ignored my bars for many years now.

Now let's talk about your car with 2 kayaks in cradles @ a minimum of
20" each, plus two bicycles. Unless your handlebars are only 4" wide,
you're running a wider load than 48". If they were mountain bikes,
probably over 58". Makes your quibbling over bar length look silly,
doesn't it?

The old vertical bar Yakima stackers are the best, the new vertical
bar stackers are about as good. Avoid the inverted U's, they will not
stay upright. OP was going to haul rec boats. Fine, slap them on the
bars edgewise and head out. Just tie them down to each bar plus bow
and stern.

I would never use stackers for carrying sea kayaks, nor would I use
J-cradles. Neither holds the boat as securely as standard cradles and
both put more stress on the rack, due to the leverage they create and
the increased sail area of boats sitting on their sides.

You may be right about that. I've only been doing it for 6-7 years, so
perhaps I have yet to experience the problems you mention. When I tie my
boats down, they're about as secure as I can imagine them being, and
yes, I have used cradles at times, which seem to allow for a little more
"float". I don't see why stackers create more leverage than cradles,
although I agree that they do increase the sail area.

Let me restate the point I was trying to make in response to Melissa's
mention of her 58" bars, which she manages to fill up on occasion: Being
legal is good, being safe is much more important. I think Melissa is
driving safely, at least I certainly hope so. Be safe, Brian.

Steve

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Another kayak roof rack question
 

Melissa wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

The Yakima racks with "Stackers" should be able to fit two boats very
securely on your car with the 48' cross bars, but if you want, I see
no problem with getting the 58 inch bars (I use 58 inch bars on my
Subaru GL wagon, and I've carried two single and one tandem sea
kayaks on it without any problem). Most of the time, however, I just
carry one or two singles, both in the old TLC cradles (these work
better with my hard chine boats than the newer "Mako" cradles). I
tried the Mako cradles at one point, and returned them right away.

Now, I too have been told that we *shouldn't* use cross bars that
extend beyond the sides of the car, but I've been using my long bars
for many years now, and 1) they've been very useful in that
configuration, and 2) I haven't yet been arrested for it. :-)

I've used my current roofrack on the last three cars I've had (a Ford
Focus wagon and two different Skoda Octavia's (same size platform as the
VW Golf). It's 160cm (roughly 63") wide, which allows for five playboats
and a set of paddles in the paddle holders. A pictu
http://kayaker.nl/kam-oct.jpg

I've been stopped at the German Czech border once, because according to
the Czech borderguard they were too wide. I asked him what the problem
was, since although they are sticking out over the roof, they aren't
outside the body of the car. Then the German borderguard came up and
made the remark that as long as they don't stick out beyond the side of
the vehicle, it's not an issue. The shape of the roof doesn't matter.

It's impossible to catch a pedestrian, bicyclist or MacDonalds counter
with them unless they are already going under my wheels. In that case, I
doubt that anyone is going to bother about the roofrack, but that the
driving style will be what gets me into trouble. :-)

Sure, I've had people bump their heads into it, but as long as they
don't damage my roofrack, I don't care! ;-)

Also, I tend to drive quite fast on the German highways (no speeed
limit), with a full complement of boats on top the car has no problem
doing 200km/h (125mph). Even having had to slam on the brakes
occasionally, I've had no problem with either the boats or the roofrack
coming off.

Granted, people tend to be a lot more disciplined while driving at high
speed there, and in case anyone wipes out at the average driving speed
there, there's a lot more than only boats flying around...

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

Another kayak roof rack question
 

We found that to carry a Dagger Dimension WW canoe and a Yakima Spacecase
(old fiberglass one) 58" bars were a couple inches too short. Our solution
was the yellow gas pipe, cheaper and it's the right pipe size. This is all
on a '93 Sidekick with fake gutters mounted on the sides. If I remember
correctly, the weight load rating on a roof mounted system, either factory
or Yakima, was less than the canoe or Spacecase as each weigh in around 80
lbs. We've used this system for 13 yrs of many road/river miles without
problems.

Carol

Another kayak roof rack question
 

krueger wrote:
We found that to carry a Dagger Dimension WW canoe and a Yakima Spacecase
(old fiberglass one) 58" bars were a couple inches too short. Our solution
was the yellow gas pipe, cheaper and it's the right pipe size. This is all
on a '93 Sidekick with fake gutters mounted on the sides. If I remember
correctly, the weight load rating on a roof mounted system, either factory
or Yakima, was less than the canoe or Spacecase as each weigh in around 80
lbs. We've used this system for 13 yrs of many road/river miles without
problems.

Carol

Yellow gas pipe? Please tell more. Can you use it as the crossbars or
just as extensions to the existing Yakima ones? I'd actually like the
yellow bars if possible just from an asthetic standpoint.

Thanks,
Dominic