"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On 9 Mar 2006 06:22:26 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


DSK wrote:
basskisser wrote:
list3 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lst)
n.
An inclination to one side, as of a ship; a tilt.


dumbass (P) Pronunciation Key (dumm-ass)
n. a stupid person; one who repeats incorrect information

Your childish name calling does nothing positive for your credibility.
Please show how you've garnered more knowledge about the English
language than the scholars who work on various dictionaries.
The above first one was from dictionary.com

This is from Merriam Webster:
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
: a deviation from the vertical : TILT; also : the extent of such a
deviation

This from Cambridge Dictionary online:
list (LEAN) Show phonetics
verb [i]
(of a ship) to lean to one side, particularly as a result of damage:
The tanker is listing badly and liable to sink at any moment.

From Microsoft Encarta:
list [ list ]


transitive and intransitive verb (past and past participle list·ed,
present participle list·ing, 3rd person present singular lists)

Definitions:

lean to one side: to lean to one side, or make a ship lean to one side




noun

Definitions:

sideways tilt: an inclination to one side, especially one developed by
a ship


[Mid-17th century. Origin ?]

so I guess that you are saying that of all the scholars and others who
have used this term since the 1600's are wrong, and you are the only
person in the universe that is right!??????

I believe he was contrasting the use of 'heel' with 'list'. Both could be
considered a 'lean' as far as a change from the vertical is concerned. In
my usage, 'heel' would be more appropriate as I was referring to a lean
caused by the wind, as opposed to the balance of the vessel itself.

Main Entry: 3heel
Function: verb
Etymology: alteration of Middle English heelden, from Old English hieldan;
akin to Old High German hald inclined, Lithuanian salis side, region
intransitive senses : to lean to one side : TIP; especially of a boat or
ship : to lean temporarily (as from the action of wind or waves) --
compare
LIST
transitive senses : to cause (a boat) to heel

This is most definitely 'semantics' at it's finest! I did not want to
start
a flame war with my comment, and my apologies go out to all.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************


http://tinyurl.com/j7vfw

basskisser wrote:
DSK wrote:
If I'm sailing north, and the wind is from the starboard, then I'm leaning
left.


basskisser wrote:
list3
n.
An inclination to one side, as of a ship; a tilt.


Sailboats heel, motorboats list.

Actually, that's still not 100% correct. As I understand it,
"heeling" is what any boat does when it leans from wind
pressure or some other temporary force. 'Listing' is leaning
to one side due to uneven loading, flooding, or perhaps a
big dent in the hull.

DSK

list3 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lst)
n.
An inclination to one side, as of a ship; a tilt.

You're correct, sort of.

A boat can (and most do) "list" to one side or another at least
slightly even when not underway. Heeling is a description of an
attitude frequently adopted by a sailboat during certain points of
sail. If a sailboat is listing in its slip, it isn't heeling.

From "The Sailor's Illustrated Dictiionary" by Lenfesty and Lenfesty
(highly recommended, by the way)

Heel: 1) the base of a mast. 2) the after end of the keel. If a ship
turns on its heel it has a very short turning radius. 3) The convex
section or elbow of a bar. 4) The inboard end of a bowsprit,

and now the relevant definition:

5) A temporary transverse angle of inclination of a vessel to one side
or the other such as during a roll or caused by the wind. If the
inclination is caused by an internal force, the vessel is said to list.

Seems like the key factors a internal vs. external force, temporary
or prevailing condition.



For "list"

the noun: A transverse angle of inclination caused by internal forces

the verb: Said of a vessel when it leans to one side due to internal
forces such as water or cargo being out of balance. This is not the
same as heeling, which is leaning caused by extermal pressure such as
wind or grounding.



Seems like any boat could technically heel, (especially when aground)
but it is only considered desirable when under sail.

JohnH wrote:
On 9 Mar 2006 06:22:26 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


DSK wrote:
basskisser wrote:
list3 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lst)
n.
An inclination to one side, as of a ship; a tilt.


dumbass (P) Pronunciation Key (dumm-ass)
n. a stupid person; one who repeats incorrect information

Your childish name calling does nothing positive for your credibility.
Please show how you've garnered more knowledge about the English
language than the scholars who work on various dictionaries.
The above first one was from dictionary.com

This is from Merriam Webster:
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
: a deviation from the vertical : TILT; also : the extent of such a
deviation

This from Cambridge Dictionary online:
list (LEAN) Show phonetics
verb [i]
(of a ship) to lean to one side, particularly as a result of damage:
The tanker is listing badly and liable to sink at any moment.

From Microsoft Encarta:
list [ list ]


transitive and intransitive verb (past and past participle list·ed,
present participle list·ing, 3rd person present singular lists)

Definitions:

lean to one side: to lean to one side, or make a ship lean to one side




noun

Definitions:

sideways tilt: an inclination to one side, especially one developed by
a ship


[Mid-17th century. Origin ?]

so I guess that you are saying that of all the scholars and others who
have used this term since the 1600's are wrong, and you are the only
person in the universe that is right!??????

I believe he was contrasting the use of 'heel' with 'list'. Both could be
considered a 'lean' as far as a change from the vertical is concerned. In
my usage, 'heel' would be more appropriate as I was referring to a lean
caused by the wind, as opposed to the balance of the vessel itself.

Main Entry: 3heel
Function: verb
Etymology: alteration of Middle English heelden, from Old English hieldan;
akin to Old High German hald inclined, Lithuanian salis side, region
intransitive senses : to lean to one side : TIP; especially of a boat or
ship : to lean temporarily (as from the action of wind or waves) -- compare
LIST
transitive senses : to cause (a boat) to heel

This is most definitely 'semantics' at it's finest! I did not want to start
a flame war with my comment, and my apologies go out to all.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************

If you look at any modern definition of list as pertaining to ships,
you won't see a reference that it can only be called a list if it
didn't pertain to wind. If you've found one, please cite.

wrote:


Seems like any boat could technically heel, (especially when aground)
but it is only considered desirable when under sail.



Only in moderation though. Most boats sail faster when the hull is
fairly flat.

Don White wrote:
wrote:


Seems like any boat could technically heel, (especially when aground)
but it is only considered desirable when under sail.



Only in moderation though. Most boats sail faster when the hull is
fairly flat.

And then to add to the general confusion on this point, we really
should include "loll", which is a specfic type of list caused by heavy
cargo stowed too high above the keel *or*
excessive water in the bilge. It may or may not be true that a can of
Dr. Pepper sloshing around to cool in the excess bilge water can be
called a "lolling pop".....

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:48 -0500, " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT
comREMOVETHIS wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On 9 Mar 2006 06:22:26 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


DSK wrote:
basskisser wrote:
list3 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lst)
n.
An inclination to one side, as of a ship; a tilt.


dumbass (P) Pronunciation Key (dumm-ass)
n. a stupid person; one who repeats incorrect information

Your childish name calling does nothing positive for your credibility.
Please show how you've garnered more knowledge about the English
language than the scholars who work on various dictionaries.
The above first one was from dictionary.com

This is from Merriam Webster:
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
: a deviation from the vertical : TILT; also : the extent of such a
deviation

This from Cambridge Dictionary online:
list (LEAN) Show phonetics
verb [i]
(of a ship) to lean to one side, particularly as a result of damage:
The tanker is listing badly and liable to sink at any moment.

From Microsoft Encarta:
list [ list ]


transitive and intransitive verb (past and past participle list·ed,
present participle list·ing, 3rd person present singular lists)

Definitions:

lean to one side: to lean to one side, or make a ship lean to one side




noun

Definitions:

sideways tilt: an inclination to one side, especially one developed by
a ship


[Mid-17th century. Origin ?]

so I guess that you are saying that of all the scholars and others who
have used this term since the 1600's are wrong, and you are the only
person in the universe that is right!??????

I believe he was contrasting the use of 'heel' with 'list'. Both could be
considered a 'lean' as far as a change from the vertical is concerned. In
my usage, 'heel' would be more appropriate as I was referring to a lean
caused by the wind, as opposed to the balance of the vessel itself.

Main Entry: 3heel
Function: verb
Etymology: alteration of Middle English heelden, from Old English hieldan;
akin to Old High German hald inclined, Lithuanian salis side, region
intransitive senses : to lean to one side : TIP; especially of a boat or
ship : to lean temporarily (as from the action of wind or waves) --
compare
LIST
transitive senses : to cause (a boat) to heel

This is most definitely 'semantics' at it's finest! I did not want to
start
a flame war with my comment, and my apologies go out to all.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Another funny thread. Thanks.

I know who Curly is..................I just have to figure out who is Moe
and who is Larry.



You are most welcome!
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

On 9 Mar 2006 08:44:07 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


JohnH wrote:
On 9 Mar 2006 06:22:26 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


DSK wrote:
basskisser wrote:
list3 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lst)
n.
An inclination to one side, as of a ship; a tilt.


dumbass (P) Pronunciation Key (dumm-ass)
n. a stupid person; one who repeats incorrect information

Your childish name calling does nothing positive for your credibility.
Please show how you've garnered more knowledge about the English
language than the scholars who work on various dictionaries.
The above first one was from dictionary.com

This is from Merriam Webster:
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
: a deviation from the vertical : TILT; also : the extent of such a
deviation

This from Cambridge Dictionary online:
list (LEAN) Show phonetics
verb [i]
(of a ship) to lean to one side, particularly as a result of damage:
The tanker is listing badly and liable to sink at any moment.

From Microsoft Encarta:
list [ list ]


transitive and intransitive verb (past and past participle list·ed,
present participle list·ing, 3rd person present singular lists)

Definitions:

lean to one side: to lean to one side, or make a ship lean to one side




noun

Definitions:

sideways tilt: an inclination to one side, especially one developed by
a ship


[Mid-17th century. Origin ?]

so I guess that you are saying that of all the scholars and others who
have used this term since the 1600's are wrong, and you are the only
person in the universe that is right!??????

I believe he was contrasting the use of 'heel' with 'list'. Both could be
considered a 'lean' as far as a change from the vertical is concerned. In
my usage, 'heel' would be more appropriate as I was referring to a lean
caused by the wind, as opposed to the balance of the vessel itself.

Main Entry: 3heel
Function: verb
Etymology: alteration of Middle English heelden, from Old English hieldan;
akin to Old High German hald inclined, Lithuanian salis side, region
intransitive senses : to lean to one side : TIP; especially of a boat or
ship : to lean temporarily (as from the action of wind or waves) -- compare
LIST
transitive senses : to cause (a boat) to heel

This is most definitely 'semantics' at it's finest! I did not want to start
a flame war with my comment, and my apologies go out to all.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************

If you look at any modern definition of list as pertaining to ships,
you won't see a reference that it can only be called a list if it
didn't pertain to wind. If you've found one, please cite.

Chuck found one.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:48 -0500, " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT
comREMOVETHIS wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..
On 9 Mar 2006 06:22:26 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


DSK wrote:
basskisser wrote:
list3 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lst)
n.
An inclination to one side, as of a ship; a tilt.


dumbass (P) Pronunciation Key (dumm-ass)
n. a stupid person; one who repeats incorrect information

Your childish name calling does nothing positive for your credibility.
Please show how you've garnered more knowledge about the English
language than the scholars who work on various dictionaries.
The above first one was from dictionary.com

This is from Merriam Webster:
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
: a deviation from the vertical : TILT; also : the extent of such a
deviation

This from Cambridge Dictionary online:
list (LEAN) Show phonetics
verb [i]
(of a ship) to lean to one side, particularly as a result of damage:
The tanker is listing badly and liable to sink at any moment.

From Microsoft Encarta:
list [ list ]


transitive and intransitive verb (past and past participle list·ed,
present participle list·ing, 3rd person present singular lists)

Definitions:

lean to one side: to lean to one side, or make a ship lean to one side




noun

Definitions:

sideways tilt: an inclination to one side, especially one developed by
a ship


[Mid-17th century. Origin ?]

so I guess that you are saying that of all the scholars and others who
have used this term since the 1600's are wrong, and you are the only
person in the universe that is right!??????

I believe he was contrasting the use of 'heel' with 'list'. Both could
be
considered a 'lean' as far as a change from the vertical is concerned.
In
my usage, 'heel' would be more appropriate as I was referring to a lean
caused by the wind, as opposed to the balance of the vessel itself.

Main Entry: 3heel
Function: verb
Etymology: alteration of Middle English heelden, from Old English
hieldan;
akin to Old High German hald inclined, Lithuanian salis side, region
intransitive senses : to lean to one side : TIP; especially of a boat or
ship : to lean temporarily (as from the action of wind or waves) --
compare
LIST
transitive senses : to cause (a boat) to heel

This is most definitely 'semantics' at it's finest! I did not want to
start
a flame war with my comment, and my apologies go out to all.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Another funny thread. Thanks.

I know who Curly is..................I just have to figure out who is Moe
and who is Larry.



You are most welcome!
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

NP.

Tell me John........why do I hear this when you and your other 2 buds post?

http://faultgame.com/images/hello.wav

Have a spectacular evening!!

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:48:53 -0500, " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT
comREMOVETHIS wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:48 -0500, " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT
comREMOVETHIS wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On 9 Mar 2006 06:22:26 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


DSK wrote:
basskisser wrote:
list3 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lst)
n.
An inclination to one side, as of a ship; a tilt.


dumbass (P) Pronunciation Key (dumm-ass)
n. a stupid person; one who repeats incorrect information

Your childish name calling does nothing positive for your credibility.
Please show how you've garnered more knowledge about the English
language than the scholars who work on various dictionaries.
The above first one was from dictionary.com

This is from Merriam Webster:
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
: a deviation from the vertical : TILT; also : the extent of such a
deviation

This from Cambridge Dictionary online:
list (LEAN) Show phonetics
verb [i]
(of a ship) to lean to one side, particularly as a result of damage:
The tanker is listing badly and liable to sink at any moment.

From Microsoft Encarta:
list [ list ]


transitive and intransitive verb (past and past participle list·ed,
present participle list·ing, 3rd person present singular lists)

Definitions:

lean to one side: to lean to one side, or make a ship lean to one side




noun

Definitions:

sideways tilt: an inclination to one side, especially one developed by
a ship


[Mid-17th century. Origin ?]

so I guess that you are saying that of all the scholars and others who
have used this term since the 1600's are wrong, and you are the only
person in the universe that is right!??????

I believe he was contrasting the use of 'heel' with 'list'. Both could
be
considered a 'lean' as far as a change from the vertical is concerned.
In
my usage, 'heel' would be more appropriate as I was referring to a lean
caused by the wind, as opposed to the balance of the vessel itself.

Main Entry: 3heel
Function: verb
Etymology: alteration of Middle English heelden, from Old English
hieldan;
akin to Old High German hald inclined, Lithuanian salis side, region
intransitive senses : to lean to one side : TIP; especially of a boat or
ship : to lean temporarily (as from the action of wind or waves) --
compare
LIST
transitive senses : to cause (a boat) to heel

This is most definitely 'semantics' at it's finest! I did not want to
start
a flame war with my comment, and my apologies go out to all.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Another funny thread. Thanks.

I know who Curly is..................I just have to figure out who is Moe
and who is Larry.



You are most welcome!
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

NP.

Tell me John........why do I hear this when you and your other 2 buds post?

http://faultgame.com/images/hello.wav

Have a spectacular evening!!


What did you hear?
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************