We're all in the wrong business.
 

I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4' wide, runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing in a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side
of the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4'
wide, runs from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the
framing in a half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also
totally accessible from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in
the floor. You can reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take
a guess at the estimates. Labor only.

$150.00

Nope. Let's wait for a few more guesses.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:52:14 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

$360.00

bb

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other
side of the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven.
4' wide, runs from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at
just the framing in a half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes
are also totally accessible from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x
4' slot in the floor. You can reach right up from the basement, if you
needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home.
Take a guess at the estimates. Labor only.
$150.00

Nope. Let's wait for a few more guesses.


I try to hire union retirees to handle my plumbing or electrical work. The
plumber I call now is a retired steamfitter. There's nothing in the way of
household plumbing he can't handle. He usually charges me $50 to $100 plus
materials for a simple job, such as adding service to a privacy wall in my
basement. He cut into existing supply and drain lines, and set me up to
connect a future sink. $110, plus about $20 in PVC pipe and fittings.

I don't mind paying good people, especially plumbers. I have a thing for
shiny, new pipes, and knowing I won't have to spend a day dealing with a
flooded basement, which would probably be the result of my own soldering
adventures. But the prices I'm getting....holy ****!

Some of these guys are insane. Example: In my previous house, there was a
problem with the water heater, covered by the manufacturer due to a class
action suit. It required that consumers use one of 10 designated plumbers in
this area. When the guy was done, I pointed out the ancient iron pipes under
my kitchen, said they tended to clog often, and asked what it would cost to
convert them all to PVC. $350.00. I said "Wanna do it right now?". 90
minutes. Done.

3 months ago, I called the same guy to have the same thing done in my
current house. He stopped by and gave me an estimate of $1500.00. More space
to work in, better light, less pipes & bends to deal with. His explanation?
"Travel charges - I was already at your other house". WTF? The guy lives 5
minutes away and works from his home!

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:52:14 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side
of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4' wide,
runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing in
a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally
accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

Somewhere in the vicinity of $400 plus or minus $25.

Yep. Time estimate: 2 hours, barring any nasty surprises. They quote a labor
rate of $75-ish, and can't explain how two times 75 equals 400.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4' wide, runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing in a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.


The first $250 bucks covers hauling the toolbox into your house from
the plumbing truck.
After that you can figure about $200 an hour, IMO.

My plumbing nightma Hired a company to clean out a clogged drain
under a tub in a ground floor apartment. Their power snake *broke* in
the pipe, and try as they might they couldn't figure out how to extract
it. They wanted to blame the mess on the clog in the pipe, of course.
Ultimately wound up having to jackhammer up the cement floor in the
bathroom and cut out a section of the drain pipe to recover their
broken tool. The plumbing company originally wanted over $10,000 to fix
their own mess........needless to say we finally agreed on an amount
about 10% of that price and I wouldn't have paid that
if I had time to take the *******s to court. It did take two guys just
about all day to jackhammer the floor, cut out the pipe,and patch in a
new section so that $1000 was both the biggest rip off and the cheapest
plumbing I've contracted for in quite a while.
Two plumbers, one day.....the $1k probably just covered wages.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:14:31 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

I try to hire union retirees to handle my plumbing or electrical work.

I knew that was coming. :)

Hey...I want experienced, *licensed* journeymen on the more difficult
projects, or supervised apprentices on the simpler ones. When I have a
union mechanic on my property, I don't have to worry about him screwing up
the job, nor do I have to wonder what he was doing on his last job.

IIRC, I once called the local union to ask about finding a plumber. The
retard on the phone made like I was asking how much Jupiter weighed.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side
of the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4' wide,
runs from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the
framing in a half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also
totally accessible from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in
the floor. You can reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.


Yeah, thats why if anyone one says economy is bad, I tell them about stuff
like this. I tried to get an electrician, took me months. Everyone is doing
commercial jobs. I also wanted my curb cut, and I can't get anyone either. I
am willing to pay, no one wants to bother with a small job.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:44:30 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:14:31 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

I try to hire union retirees to handle my plumbing or electrical work.

I knew that was coming. :)

Hey...I want experienced, *licensed* journeymen on the more difficult
projects, or supervised apprentices on the simpler ones. When I have a
union mechanic on my property, I don't have to worry about him screwing
up
the job, nor do I have to wonder what he was doing on his last job.

IIRC, I once called the local union to ask about finding a plumber. The
retard on the phone made like I was asking how much Jupiter weighed.

ROTFL!!!

Last year I helped a friend of mine set up at a hunting/fishing/boat
show and the convention center was "union". We set up the booth and
were working on the lighting for the boats when along comes a union
steward who told us that we needed to have a union electrician inspect
the lighting rack. That in and of itself wasn't a problem - we paid
the hour electrician's fee, the guy inspected the lighting, passed it
as "good" and charged us and additional fee to plug in the extension
cord - I kid you not.

Guess how much the plugging in of the extension cord cost?

$50.00

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side
of the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4'
wide, runs from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the
framing in a half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also
totally accessible from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in
the floor. You can reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take
a guess at the estimates. Labor only.


Yeah, thats why if anyone one says economy is bad, I tell them about stuff
like this. I tried to get an electrician, took me months. Everyone is
doing commercial jobs. I also wanted my curb cut, and I can't get anyone
either. I am willing to pay, no one wants to bother with a small job.


If I was flush right now, I'd take the cheapest quote (which has been about
$350) and just do it. But, I simply can't part with money like it's water
right now. I'm still recovering from divorce proceedings, buying furniture,
etc. Guess what's next? The roof. First quote, from a guy who came highly
recommended by 5 different people, was $8500.00, and this is a small house.
It's a tear-off, and the guy's an unbelievable perfectionist, but still....I
may blow a vacation week doing it myself.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Dan J.S. wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other
side of the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven.
4' wide, runs from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just
the framing in a half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are
also totally accessible from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4'
slot in the floor. You can reach right up from the basement, if you
needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take
a guess at the estimates. Labor only.


Yeah, thats why if anyone one says economy is bad, I tell them about
stuff like this. I tried to get an electrician, took me months. Everyone
is doing commercial jobs. I also wanted my curb cut, and I can't get
anyone either. I am willing to pay, no one wants to bother with a small
job.


Hmmmm. I can get a plumber or electrician out here this afternoon or, at
the latest, tomorrow morning. Same with a tilesetter. The carpenter I use,
though, is not a retiree. Takes a week or two to schedule him.

Yeah, but what about a hooker?

We're all in the wrong business.
 

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:19:01 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

The carpenter I
use, though, is not a retiree. Takes a week or two to schedule him.

Wow, Krause has his own carpenter...aren't we all impressed.
__

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."

http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/

We're all in the wrong business.
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:52:14 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side
of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4' wide,
runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing in
a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally
accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

Somewhere in the vicinity of $400 plus or minus $25.

Yep. Time estimate: 2 hours, barring any nasty surprises. They quote a labor
rate of $75-ish, and can't explain how two times 75 equals 400.

They're plumbers!

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:20:58 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other
side
of the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4'
wide, runs from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just
the
framing in a half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also
totally accessible from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot
in
the floor. You can reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home.
Take
a guess at the estimates. Labor only.


Yeah, thats why if anyone one says economy is bad, I tell them about
stuff
like this. I tried to get an electrician, took me months. Everyone is
doing commercial jobs. I also wanted my curb cut, and I can't get anyone
either. I am willing to pay, no one wants to bother with a small job.

If I was flush right now, I'd take the cheapest quote (which has been
about
$350) and just do it. But, I simply can't part with money like it's water
right now. I'm still recovering from divorce proceedings, buying
furniture,
etc. Guess what's next? The roof. First quote, from a guy who came highly
recommended by 5 different people, was $8500.00, and this is a small
house.
It's a tear-off, and the guy's an unbelievable perfectionist, but
still....I
may blow a vacation week doing it myself.

Get another quote - that seems extreme to me.

And while roofing isn't rocket science, doing it yourself isn't a
great idea.

I did a gorgeous job on the freestanding garage at my previous house, and it
had some truly bizarre angles. But, that was also 17 years ago, which could
factor into how my knees will complain after a week on a roof.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side
of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4' wide,
runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing in
a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally
accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take
a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

I do all of my house maintenence, remodeling, etc myself! Here in the
Atlanta area, plumbers are around $125 for the first half hour, and
$125 per hour thereafter.


I do most of it, too. But, my pipe soldering skills aren't up to my own high
standards. This faucet is leaking enough to be expensive. The valve seat's
worn to the point where it's chewing up a new washer every week. The
internal surfaces were stripped by whoever removed it before, so the seat
removal tool's got nothing to grip. I figure that if the whole brass thing
in the wall's gotta be replaced, I may as well get what I really want: A
single-handle Moen.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:19:01 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dan J.S. wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side
of the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4' wide,
runs from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the
framing in a half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also
totally accessible from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in
the floor. You can reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.


Yeah, thats why if anyone one says economy is bad, I tell them about stuff
like this. I tried to get an electrician, took me months. Everyone is doing
commercial jobs. I also wanted my curb cut, and I can't get anyone either. I
am willing to pay, no one wants to bother with a small job.

Hmmmm. I can get a plumber or electrician out here this afternoon or, at
the latest, tomorrow morning. Same with a tilesetter. The carpenter I
use, though, is not a retiree. Takes a week or two to schedule him.

Harry, I like you and respect you even if we don't agree on some
things. So don't take this the wrong way.

There is no way in hell you can get a plumber or electrician on one
days notice.

Can do it here in Atlanta, a very busy metropolitan area.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other
side of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4' wide,
runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing
in a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally
accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take
a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

I do all of my house maintenence, remodeling, etc myself! Here in the
Atlanta area, plumbers are around $125 for the first half hour, and
$125 per hour thereafter.


I do most of it, too. But, my pipe soldering skills aren't up to my own
high standards. This faucet is leaking enough to be expensive. The valve
seat's worn to the point where it's chewing up a new washer every week.
The internal surfaces were stripped by whoever removed it before, so the
seat removal tool's got nothing to grip. I figure that if the whole brass
thing in the wall's gotta be replaced, I may as well get what I really
want: A single-handle Moen.


Get a PVC riser removal tool. Is a tapered tool for removing broken risers.
May be too big for a seat, but look at one. They are about $5 at most
hardware stores. Looking at new handles for the PF 3 handle in the tub.
$11 each for plastic chunk they have been making for years? Found a remodel
set for the PF three handle. $70 at Home Depot. Includes new seats, stems,
and ceramic handles.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side
of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4' wide,
runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing in
a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally
accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take
a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

I do all of my house maintenence, remodeling, etc myself! Here in the
Atlanta area, plumbers are around $125 for the first half hour, and
$125 per hour thereafter.


I do most of it, too. But, my pipe soldering skills aren't up to my own high
standards. This faucet is leaking enough to be expensive. The valve seat's
worn to the point where it's chewing up a new washer every week. The
internal surfaces were stripped by whoever removed it before, so the seat
removal tool's got nothing to grip. I figure that if the whole brass thing
in the wall's gotta be replaced, I may as well get what I really want: A
single-handle Moen.

Have you seen the compression fittings that will go from copper, to
butyl, etc? I had a leak at the hot water tank one time at a copper
sweat fitting, went to get a new fitting to sweat in, and actually ran
into a Home Depot worker that showed me those. That was ten years ago,
and it hasn't leaked yet. So you could use a butyl piece into the the
faucet, cut the copper pipe where it's not corroded, etc., and use this
compressioin union to fasten the butyl to the copper. THAT is if you
don't want to solder. I'd solder it myself.....

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other
side of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4' wide,
runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing
in a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally
accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You
can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home.
Take a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

I do all of my house maintenence, remodeling, etc myself! Here in the
Atlanta area, plumbers are around $125 for the first half hour, and
$125 per hour thereafter.


I do most of it, too. But, my pipe soldering skills aren't up to my own
high standards. This faucet is leaking enough to be expensive. The valve
seat's worn to the point where it's chewing up a new washer every week.
The internal surfaces were stripped by whoever removed it before, so the
seat removal tool's got nothing to grip. I figure that if the whole brass
thing in the wall's gotta be replaced, I may as well get what I really
want: A single-handle Moen.


Get a PVC riser removal tool. Is a tapered tool for removing broken
risers. May be too big for a seat, but look at one. They are about $5 at
most hardware stores. Looking at new handles for the PF 3 handle in the
tub. $11 each for plastic chunk they have been making for years? Found a
remodel set for the PF three handle. $70 at Home Depot. Includes new
seats, stems, and ceramic handles.


What's a PVC riser?

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Dan J.S. wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other
side of the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven.
4' wide, runs from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just
the framing in a half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are
also totally accessible from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4'
slot in the floor. You can reach right up from the basement, if you
needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take
a guess at the estimates. Labor only.


Yeah, thats why if anyone one says economy is bad, I tell them about
stuff like this. I tried to get an electrician, took me months. Everyone
is doing commercial jobs. I also wanted my curb cut, and I can't get
anyone either. I am willing to pay, no one wants to bother with a small
job.


Hmmmm. I can get a plumber or electrician out here this afternoon or, at
the latest, tomorrow morning. Same with a tilesetter. The carpenter I use,
though, is not a retiree. Takes a week or two to schedule him.

Northwest Chicago suburbs, and unless I call someone that's fresh off the
boat, I can't get anything done. There are a lot of new homes being built,
so most of the contractors have more profitable gigs. One contractor is
willing to do stuff only if there is at least $1000 worth of a job, he said
driving a truck to my house costs him at least $1000 in lost
business(opportunity cost) if he were to send it to another place. Customer
service in this country is almost gone, especially with the cocky
contractors. I mean, when my business is great, and I have to turn people
away, I at least try to come up with a solution for them. Local contractors
are peacocking, all proud when they tell me I am not worth it.

A clear example is my chandelier. I bought one online for $3,000 which was
$2,000 cheaper than my local mom and pop shop, free delivery and no tax. I
called a contractor because the ceiling where this chandelier is to be
installed is 48 feet high. I dont have the ladder this big. It took over 9
calls to get someone to come. Then, the only reason this guy came is because
I helped him restore his quickbooks pro financial records (he didnt know how
to recover from backup). He asked $200 for the install, and he didn't even
cashed the check. It has been 8 months now. And if someone says, if you
bought from mom and pop they would have installed. Nope - because I bought
something else there before and all they do is give you a list of local
contractors, and this is the list I was actually using for the chandelier
install.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:52:14 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side
of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4' wide,
runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing in
a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally
accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

Somewhere in the vicinity of $400 plus or minus $25.

Plumbing is sometimes a PITA but I have always done the work myself.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other
side
of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4'
wide,
runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing
in
a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally
accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You
can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home.
Take
a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

I do all of my house maintenence, remodeling, etc myself! Here in the
Atlanta area, plumbers are around $125 for the first half hour, and
$125 per hour thereafter.


I do most of it, too. But, my pipe soldering skills aren't up to my own
high
standards. This faucet is leaking enough to be expensive. The valve
seat's
worn to the point where it's chewing up a new washer every week. The
internal surfaces were stripped by whoever removed it before, so the seat
removal tool's got nothing to grip. I figure that if the whole brass
thing
in the wall's gotta be replaced, I may as well get what I really want: A
single-handle Moen.

Have you seen the compression fittings that will go from copper, to
butyl, etc? I had a leak at the hot water tank one time at a copper
sweat fitting, went to get a new fitting to sweat in, and actually ran
into a Home Depot worker that showed me those. That was ten years ago,
and it hasn't leaked yet. So you could use a butyl piece into the the
faucet, cut the copper pipe where it's not corroded, etc., and use this
compressioin union to fasten the butyl to the copper. THAT is if you
don't want to solder. I'd solder it myself.....


Well, I *was* sort of wondering about the metal-clad flex hoses you use for
water supply under sinks, too. I could solder, since there's a wide opening
in the floor, right to a clear spot in the basement. Stick a trash can under
there....if it leaks, I'll know right away and no harm's done.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other
side
of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4'
wide,
runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing
in
a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally
accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You
can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home.
Take
a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

I do all of my house maintenence, remodeling, etc myself! Here in the
Atlanta area, plumbers are around $125 for the first half hour, and
$125 per hour thereafter.


I do most of it, too. But, my pipe soldering skills aren't up to my own
high
standards. This faucet is leaking enough to be expensive. The valve
seat's
worn to the point where it's chewing up a new washer every week. The
internal surfaces were stripped by whoever removed it before, so the seat
removal tool's got nothing to grip. I figure that if the whole brass
thing
in the wall's gotta be replaced, I may as well get what I really want: A
single-handle Moen.

Have you seen the compression fittings that will go from copper, to
butyl, etc? I had a leak at the hot water tank one time at a copper
sweat fitting, went to get a new fitting to sweat in, and actually ran
into a Home Depot worker that showed me those. That was ten years ago,
and it hasn't leaked yet. So you could use a butyl piece into the the
faucet, cut the copper pipe where it's not corroded, etc., and use this
compressioin union to fasten the butyl to the copper. THAT is if you
don't want to solder. I'd solder it myself.....


Well, I *was* sort of wondering about the metal-clad flex hoses you use for
water supply under sinks, too. I could solder, since there's a wide opening
in the floor, right to a clear spot in the basement. Stick a trash can under
there....if it leaks, I'll know right away and no harm's done.

Yeah, that sounds like a winner!

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath
faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the
other
side
of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4'
wide,
runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the
framing
in
a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally
accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor.
You
can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home.
Take
a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

I do all of my house maintenence, remodeling, etc myself! Here in
the
Atlanta area, plumbers are around $125 for the first half hour, and
$125 per hour thereafter.


I do most of it, too. But, my pipe soldering skills aren't up to my
own
high
standards. This faucet is leaking enough to be expensive. The valve
seat's
worn to the point where it's chewing up a new washer every week. The
internal surfaces were stripped by whoever removed it before, so the
seat
removal tool's got nothing to grip. I figure that if the whole brass
thing
in the wall's gotta be replaced, I may as well get what I really want:
A
single-handle Moen.

Have you seen the compression fittings that will go from copper, to
butyl, etc? I had a leak at the hot water tank one time at a copper
sweat fitting, went to get a new fitting to sweat in, and actually ran
into a Home Depot worker that showed me those. That was ten years ago,
and it hasn't leaked yet. So you could use a butyl piece into the the
faucet, cut the copper pipe where it's not corroded, etc., and use this
compressioin union to fasten the butyl to the copper. THAT is if you
don't want to solder. I'd solder it myself.....


Well, I *was* sort of wondering about the metal-clad flex hoses you use
for
water supply under sinks, too. I could solder, since there's a wide
opening
in the floor, right to a clear spot in the basement. Stick a trash can
under
there....if it leaks, I'll know right away and no harm's done.

Yeah, that sounds like a winner!


Good. Get over here. I have beer and propane.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:44:30 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:14:31 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


I try to hire union retirees to handle my plumbing or electrical work.

I knew that was coming. :)

Hey...I want experienced, *licensed* journeymen on the more difficult
projects, or supervised apprentices on the simpler ones. When I have a
union mechanic on my property, I don't have to worry about him screwing up
the job, nor do I have to wonder what he was doing on his last job.

IIRC, I once called the local union to ask about finding a plumber. The
retard on the phone made like I was asking how much Jupiter weighed.


ROTFL!!!

Last year I helped a friend of mine set up at a hunting/fishing/boat
show and the convention center was "union". We set up the booth and
were working on the lighting for the boats when along comes a union
steward who told us that we needed to have a union electrician inspect
the lighting rack. That in and of itself wasn't a problem - we paid
the hour electrician's fee, the guy inspected the lighting, passed it
as "good" and charged us and additional fee to plug in the extension
cord - I kid you not.

Guess how much the plugging in of the extension cord cost?

$50.00

We're all in the wrong business.
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4' wide, runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing in a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.



I did my own conversion about 8-10 years ago.
Since my copper pipe soldering is hit & miss, I converted to plastic
pipe and used the compression fittings to join plastic to original
copper. If I was doing it now, I'd use what my plumber uses... assuming
he'd lend me his connector plier.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
om...

Doug Kanter wrote:

I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other
side of the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven.
4' wide, runs from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at
just the framing in a half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes
are also totally accessible from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x
4' slot in the floor. You can reach right up from the basement, if you
needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home.
Take a guess at the estimates. Labor only.

$150.00

Nope. Let's wait for a few more guesses.


I try to hire union retirees to handle my plumbing or electrical work. The
plumber I call now is a retired steamfitter. There's nothing in the way of
household plumbing he can't handle. He usually charges me $50 to $100 plus
materials for a simple job, such as adding service to a privacy wall in my
basement. He cut into existing supply and drain lines, and set me up to
connect a future sink. $110, plus about $20 in PVC pipe and fittings.


I don't mind paying good people, especially plumbers. I have a thing for
shiny, new pipes, and knowing I won't have to spend a day dealing with a
flooded basement, which would probably be the result of my own soldering
adventures. But the prices I'm getting....holy ****!

Some of these guys are insane. Example: In my previous house, there was a
problem with the water heater, covered by the manufacturer due to a class
action suit. It required that consumers use one of 10 designated plumbers in
this area. When the guy was done, I pointed out the ancient iron pipes under
my kitchen, said they tended to clog often, and asked what it would cost to
convert them all to PVC. $350.00. I said "Wanna do it right now?". 90
minutes. Done.

3 months ago, I called the same guy to have the same thing done in my
current house. He stopped by and gave me an estimate of $1500.00. More space
to work in, better light, less pipes & bends to deal with. His explanation?
"Travel charges - I was already at your other house". WTF? The guy lives 5
minutes away and works from his home!



Should have offered to go pick him up and return his lazy ass.
When they give you an estimate like that..it means they have lots of
work on the books & he doesn't really care to do your job.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:20:58 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other
side
of the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4'
wide, runs from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just
the
framing in a half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also
totally accessible from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot
in
the floor. You can reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home.
Take
a guess at the estimates. Labor only.


Yeah, thats why if anyone one says economy is bad, I tell them about
stuff
like this. I tried to get an electrician, took me months. Everyone is
doing commercial jobs. I also wanted my curb cut, and I can't get anyone
either. I am willing to pay, no one wants to bother with a small job.

If I was flush right now, I'd take the cheapest quote (which has been
about
$350) and just do it. But, I simply can't part with money like it's water
right now. I'm still recovering from divorce proceedings, buying
furniture,
etc. Guess what's next? The roof. First quote, from a guy who came highly
recommended by 5 different people, was $8500.00, and this is a small
house.
It's a tear-off, and the guy's an unbelievable perfectionist, but
still....I
may blow a vacation week doing it myself.

Get another quote - that seems extreme to me.

And while roofing isn't rocket science, doing it yourself isn't a
great idea.


I did a gorgeous job on the freestanding garage at my previous house, and it
had some truly bizarre angles. But, that was also 17 years ago, which could
factor into how my knees will complain after a week on a roof.


For me, it depends on the slope and how high off the ground.
We quickly did my mom's roof on her 14' x 18' extension a couple of
years ago and I've done an add on garage to my former Cape Cod style
house. Once I get up on a steep 9 in 12 ratio two story roof, I get
nervous.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other
side of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4'
wide, runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the framing
in a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally
accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You
can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home.
Take a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

I do all of my house maintenence, remodeling, etc myself! Here in the
Atlanta area, plumbers are around $125 for the first half hour, and
$125 per hour thereafter.


I do most of it, too. But, my pipe soldering skills aren't up to my own
high standards. This faucet is leaking enough to be expensive. The valve
seat's worn to the point where it's chewing up a new washer every week.
The internal surfaces were stripped by whoever removed it before, so the
seat removal tool's got nothing to grip. I figure that if the whole
brass thing in the wall's gotta be replaced, I may as well get what I
really want: A single-handle Moen.


Get a PVC riser removal tool. Is a tapered tool for removing broken
risers. May be too big for a seat, but look at one. They are about $5 at
most hardware stores. Looking at new handles for the PF 3 handle in the
tub. $11 each for plastic chunk they have been making for years? Found a
remodel set for the PF three handle. $70 at Home Depot. Includes new
seats, stems, and ceramic handles.


What's a PVC riser?


The piece that comes up and the sprinkler head attaches to. They break when
you step on them at times, or hit with the lawnmower. Is similar to an
easy-out.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 01:14:47 GMT, Dan Krueger
wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:44:30 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:14:31 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


I try to hire union retirees to handle my plumbing or electrical
work.

I knew that was coming. :)

Hey...I want experienced, *licensed* journeymen on the more difficult
projects, or supervised apprentices on the simpler ones. When I have a
union mechanic on my property, I don't have to worry about him screwing
up
the job, nor do I have to wonder what he was doing on his last job.

IIRC, I once called the local union to ask about finding a plumber. The
retard on the phone made like I was asking how much Jupiter weighed.


ROTFL!!!

Last year I helped a friend of mine set up at a hunting/fishing/boat
show and the convention center was "union". We set up the booth and
were working on the lighting for the boats when along comes a union
steward who told us that we needed to have a union electrician inspect
the lighting rack. That in and of itself wasn't a problem - we paid
the hour electrician's fee, the guy inspected the lighting, passed it
as "good" and charged us and additional fee to plug in the extension
cord - I kid you not.

Guess how much the plugging in of the extension cord cost?

$50.00

$175.

Damn. From now on, I'm charging my son $100 every time I put a can of ginger
ale in the refrigerator for him.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other side
of the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4'
wide, runs from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the
framing in a half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also
totally accessible from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in
the floor. You can reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home. Take
a guess at the estimates. Labor only.

I did my own conversion about 8-10 years ago.
Since my copper pipe soldering is hit & miss, I converted to plastic pipe
and used the compression fittings to join plastic to original copper. If I
was doing it now, I'd use what my plumber uses... assuming he'd lend me
his connector plier.

Don, you may have just won some sort of prize for good ideas.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm calling around for labor estimates to have my 3-knob bath faucet
replaced with a single handle Moen. I'm explaining that on the other
side of
the wall, there's an access panel that was designed in heaven. 4'
wide, runs
from floor to ceiling. It's as if you were looking at just the
framing in a
half-built house. It's on the first floor. Pipes are also totally
accessible
from below. Matter of fact, there's a 6" x 4' slot in the floor. You
can
reach right up from the basement, if you needed to.

I've called three plumbers who live within 5-10 minutes of my home.
Take a
guess at the estimates. Labor only.

I do all of my house maintenence, remodeling, etc myself! Here in the
Atlanta area, plumbers are around $125 for the first half hour, and
$125 per hour thereafter.


I do most of it, too. But, my pipe soldering skills aren't up to my own
high standards. This faucet is leaking enough to be expensive. The
valve seat's worn to the point where it's chewing up a new washer every
week. The internal surfaces were stripped by whoever removed it before,
so the seat removal tool's got nothing to grip. I figure that if the
whole brass thing in the wall's gotta be replaced, I may as well get
what I really want: A single-handle Moen.


Get a PVC riser removal tool. Is a tapered tool for removing broken
risers. May be too big for a seat, but look at one. They are about $5
at most hardware stores. Looking at new handles for the PF 3 handle in
the tub. $11 each for plastic chunk they have been making for years?
Found a remodel set for the PF three handle. $70 at Home Depot.
Includes new seats, stems, and ceramic handles.


What's a PVC riser?


The piece that comes up and the sprinkler head attaches to. They break
when you step on them at times, or hit with the lawnmower. Is similar to
an easy-out.


And there's a tool to remove it? I'll ask one of the experts at Home Despot
this morning. I'll bring a baseball bat.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

Put a few cans of Vernors in there for him, and he'll start buying and
stocking his own soft drinks.

There is no better ginger ale than Vernors.

--
Skipper

We're all in the wrong business.
 

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 01:14:47 GMT, Dan Krueger
wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:44:30 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:



"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:


On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:14:31 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:



I try to hire union retirees to handle my plumbing or electrical work.

I knew that was coming. :)

Hey...I want experienced, *licensed* journeymen on the more difficult
projects, or supervised apprentices on the simpler ones. When I have a
union mechanic on my property, I don't have to worry about him screwing up
the job, nor do I have to wonder what he was doing on his last job.

IIRC, I once called the local union to ask about finding a plumber. The
retard on the phone made like I was asking how much Jupiter weighed.


ROTFL!!!

Last year I helped a friend of mine set up at a hunting/fishing/boat
show and the convention center was "union". We set up the booth and
were working on the lighting for the boats when along comes a union
steward who told us that we needed to have a union electrician inspect
the lighting rack. That in and of itself wasn't a problem - we paid
the hour electrician's fee, the guy inspected the lighting, passed it
as "good" and charged us and additional fee to plug in the extension
cord - I kid you not.

Guess how much the plugging in of the extension cord cost?

$50.00


$175.

Damn! I guess it's tougher to plug in extension cords these days.

We're all in the wrong business.
 

"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
ink.net...


$175.

Damn! I guess it's tougher to plug in extension cords these days.


Well, the price doubled back when they introduced polarized plugs. You have
to match up the fat slots, ya know and that takes time.

RCE