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Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
Hi,
I have a 1999 Bayliner capri with a 4 cylinder mercruiser. When the boat is out of the water and connected to the water hose and running. It shifts in and out of gear fine. When the boat is in the water and I switch the gear shift to neutral, it will NOT go into neutral most of the time...it just stays at the "no wake" speed but the shifter is in neutral. I have to shift it back and forth to get it to finally go to neutral. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Scott |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
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Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
wrote in message oups.com... Hi, I have a 1999 Bayliner capri with a 4 cylinder mercruiser. When the boat is out of the water and connected to the water hose and running. It shifts in and out of gear fine. When the boat is in the water and I switch the gear shift to neutral, it will NOT go into neutral most of the time...it just stays at the "no wake" speed but the shifter is in neutral. I have to shift it back and forth to get it to finally go to neutral. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Scott Probably the shifter cable is bad, your shifter kill switch is not engaging. This shows up with DOG type gears. The engine has to be moving slower than the prop for the gear to go into neutral thus the kill switch. (In the water because of the inertia of the water the prop is always going to be running slower than the engine unless the kill switch is working.) |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
The shift interrupt should Not cut out the ignition if the cable is in
good working order AND adjusted correctly. The purpose of the interrupt switch is to prevent damage to the drive from the throttle opening before forward or reverse gear is engaged. A number of models did not come supplied with interrupters at all. I would check the adjustment, if incorrect, adjust to spec, if still sticking then check the lower shif cable. You can sometimes see dried mineral deposits directly under the engine end of the lower cable, indicating a leaky shift bellows and probable damage to the cable, it only takes a few ounces of extra resistance to cause a problem, but if you do have a shift interrupt switch ,the engine will stall when shifting(as it should to prevent damage.)..Also make sure your idle speed is correct... markvictor |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
The shift bellow doesn't seal water out of the cable. If the bellow leaks
the boat will take on water. A defective shift shaft bushing is the main cause for water intrusion into the shift cable. An inoperable interrupter may be causing difficulty pulling out of gear and inadvertantly shifting into the opposite gear. Idle speed too high will cause this as well but the shift clunk will be unusually loud. If the throttle opens too soon, your cables need adjusting. If the engine stalls while shifting there is excessive resistance in the lower cable or linkages. Jim "markvictor" wrote in message oups.com... The shift interrupt should Not cut out the ignition if the cable is in good working order AND adjusted correctly. The purpose of the interrupt switch is to prevent damage to the drive from the throttle opening before forward or reverse gear is engaged. A number of models did not come supplied with interrupters at all. I would check the adjustment, if incorrect, adjust to spec, if still sticking then check the lower shif cable. You can sometimes see dried mineral deposits directly under the engine end of the lower cable, indicating a leaky shift bellows and probable damage to the cable, it only takes a few ounces of extra resistance to cause a problem, but if you do have a shift interrupt switch ,the engine will stall when shifting(as it should to prevent damage.)..Also make sure your idle speed is correct... markvictor |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
"markvictor" wrote in message oups.com... The shift interrupt should Not cut out the ignition if the cable is in good working order AND adjusted correctly. The purpose of the interrupt switch is to prevent damage to the drive from the throttle opening before forward or reverse gear is engaged. A number of models did not come supplied with interrupters at all. I would check the adjustment, if incorrect, adjust to spec, if still sticking then check the lower shif cable. You can sometimes see dried mineral deposits directly under the engine end of the lower cable, indicating a leaky shift bellows and probable damage to the cable, it only takes a few ounces of extra resistance to cause a problem, but if you do have a shift interrupt switch ,the engine will stall when shifting(as it should to prevent damage.)..Also make sure your idle speed is correct... markvictor All correct except the shift engine kill switch SHOULD engage if there is any resistance disengaging from reverse or forward into neutral. This resistance (if shift cable is good) comes from the dog gear not disengaging because the engine is running faster than the prop. The kill switch engages and the motor slows relative to the prop and the gear can disengage. |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
markvictor wrote:
The shift interrupt should Not cut out the ignition Yes, it should... not entirely, just enough to shake the clutch dog off the gear. if the cable is in good working order AND adjusted correctly. The purpose of the interrupt switch is to prevent damage to the drive from the throttle opening before forward or reverse gear is engaged. Different adjustment. A number of models did not come supplied with interrupters at all. Alphas? I would check the adjustment, if incorrect, adjust to spec, if still sticking then check the lower shif cable. The most likely problem. Rob |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
markvictor wrote:
Jeff Rigby wrote: All correct except the shift engine kill switch SHOULD engage if there is any resistance disengaging from reverse or forward into neutral. I agree, but when the control cable and lower shift cable are in good condition, and adjusted correctly, the only way the clutch is "loaded", is essentially when underway above nominal idle,or excessive rpms prior to shifting, thus keeping tension on the clutch dogs. markvictor, you're confusing yourself immensley. Brand new Alpha. Disconnect the interrupter. Guess what? It wont come out of gear, even at idle(in water, under way), unless you use the cable and pull the shift lever past neutral into reverse... then guess what? you're in reverse! From neutral, it'll go INTO gear all day long no matter how fast you shift & throttle(& actually, the faster you shift the better for the dog & gears in the foot - none of that chunka-chunka-chunka-chunka-clunk stuff...). Makes docking tough. Connect the interrupter. Shifts like a dream(at least as good as a dog clutch leg can)! Rob |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
My understanding of the purpose of the interrupter is that because of the
design of the clutch dogs on the sliding clutch ( back cut 2 or 3 degrees or somesuch), it is necessary to release the torque applied to the clutch to make it easier to disengage same. To prove the point, disconnect one of the wires on the interrupter microswitch and notice how much more difficult it is to disengage gears while the engine is running. Also notice that there is a tendency to overshift into the opposite gear. Older Mercruisers didn't have the back cut clutch dogs and had a tendency to fall out of gear at idle speed as the dogs became rounded from wear. Earlier I made mention of a shift shaft seal. What I was referring to would be more correctly called a bell housing bushing seal. The original poster didn't say if he was having difficulty pulling the gearshifter into neutral. That would be key to knowing if there was an interrupter problem. Jim |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
"markvictor" wrote in message oups.com... Jeff Rigby wrote: All correct except the shift engine kill switch SHOULD engage if there is any resistance disengaging from reverse or forward into neutral. I agree, but when the control cable and lower shift cable are in good condition, and adjusted correctly, the only way the clutch is "loaded", is essentially when underway above nominal idle,or excessive rpms prior to shifting, thus keeping tension on the clutch dogs. if the cables are out of adjustment, When trying to engage from neutral, if the rpm's are too high from premature throttle opening,the clutch will resist and the interrupt switch is actuated. When in gear,if the throttle is not closed and rhe RPM's are ,once again, higher than nominal idle speed, the clutch dogs resist disengagement, again tripping the interrupt switch... This resistance (if shift cable is good) comes from the dog gear not disengaging because the engine is running faster than the prop. The kill switch engages and the motor slows relative to the prop and the gear can disengage. If the engine is running, and the drive is engaged (in gear) It is absolutely impossible for the engine to EVER run slower than the propshaft OK, got me on terms, I should have said that there is pressure on the dog gear because the engine is turning the prop against the resistance of the water. So to be VERY specific, at idle speed there is resistance from the prop and it WANTS to turn slower but cant because it's in gear. Because of this the dog gear can not disengage so as you shift from either reverse or forward into neutral the kill switch momentarilly kills the ignition so that the engine is NOT putting drive pressure thru the gears on the prop and the drive gear disengages. .. A momentary spark interruption does not stop the engine. If you try to do full throttle direction changes, the interrupter should move to prevent damage, but in normal operation, the throttle hits the stop before the shift action proceeds, and the decelleration of the motor unloads the clutch dogs, and if the boat is moving, the flow of water over the prop actually aids in unloading it.... Correct; This kill switch is not necessarry if you are throttleing back from a plane and shift into neutral. The prop is trying to turn faster than the engine because the boat is coming down from speed and the water is turning the prop faster than the engine. It's also not necessary if your prop is out of the water because there is no load on the prop/dog gear Bottom line, the two causes of interrupter activation is attempting high load shifts, either from too rapid shifting at high rpm or misadjusted cables, or a simulated shift load caused by resistance from a damaged cable or possibly a heavily worn selector shaft bushing and seal. Correct wrote: When the boat is in the water and I switch the gear shift to neutral, it will NOT go into neutral most of the time...it just stays at the "no wake" speed but the shifter is in neutral. I have to shift it back and forth to get it to finally go to neutral. Any help would be greatly appreciated. The fact that the control handle is in the neutral position but the clutch is still engaged, is a pretty clear indication that there is not enough throw on the lower cable. This is often caused by the cable end on the interrupter bracket being positioned incorrectly in the slot on the cantilever.. On the v8's and v6's it should be at the bottom of the slot, but if memory serves me correctly, the 4 cyl. plate is inverted and the cable should be at the top of the slot. That will increase throw on the lower cable, and minimize or eliminate any unnecessary movement of the switch. If it was a bad cable, or high rpms, it would stall the motor while hunting back and forth to find neutral. I did have a bad shift cable that didn't cause symptoms like you'd expect, I had a shift cable problem where the kill switch was not being engaged and the outdrive would have problems going into and out of gear. This happened only in the morning and by warming up the engine (shift cable) the problem went away. Replacing the shift cable fixed this problem I also had a bad cable that manifested symptoms that were slightly unusual, the engine would stall when docking, upon further testing it was extreme outdrive angles while shifting that caused the stalling (the only time I used extreme angles (steering) while shifting was when I was docking the boat). Bending the shift cables by having the outdrive at extreme angles caused them to bind internally and hang causing the kill switch to stall the engine. Replacing the shift cable fixed this problem. trainfan1 wrote: Yes, it should... not entirely, just enough to shake the clutch dog off the gear No, it shouldn't, unless something is wrong...or you're shifting improperly, such as lock to lock.. Different adjustment. Of course it is, it's the throttle cable, but that can cause premature opening of the throttle plate, which in turn causes rpms to increase prior to gear engagement,which causes increased effort tho engage the clutch dogs,which should cause the interrupter. to actuate, which causes the boat to stall, etc etc,...But that's what's supposed to happen if the throttle opens too soon.... Jeff Rigby wrote: Probably the shifter cable is bad, your shifter kill switch is not engaging. That is when it would engage, if the cable was bad JIMinFL wrote: The shift bellow doesn't seal water out of the cable. If the bellow leaks the boat will take on water. A defective shift shaft bushing is the main cause for water intrusion into the shift cable You're absolutely right,,, |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message ... JIMinFL wrote: The shift bellow doesn't seal water out of the cable. If the bellow leaks the boat will take on water. A defective shift shaft bushing is the main cause for water intrusion into the shift cable You're absolutely right,,, He usually is when it comes to the Merc outdrives. Eisboch |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
This has been a most interesting thread. Thanks!
On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:29:35 -0500, "Jeff Rigby" wrote: "markvictor" wrote in message roups.com... Jeff Rigby wrote: All correct except the shift engine kill switch SHOULD engage if there is any resistance disengaging from reverse or forward into neutral. I agree, but when the control cable and lower shift cable are in good condition, and adjusted correctly, the only way the clutch is "loaded", is essentially when underway above nominal idle,or excessive rpms prior to shifting, thus keeping tension on the clutch dogs. if the cables are out of adjustment, When trying to engage from neutral, if the rpm's are too high from premature throttle opening,the clutch will resist and the interrupt switch is actuated. When in gear,if the throttle is not closed and rhe RPM's are ,once again, higher than nominal idle speed, the clutch dogs resist disengagement, again tripping the interrupt switch... This resistance (if shift cable is good) comes from the dog gear not disengaging because the engine is running faster than the prop. The kill switch engages and the motor slows relative to the prop and the gear can disengage. If the engine is running, and the drive is engaged (in gear) It is absolutely impossible for the engine to EVER run slower than the propshaft OK, got me on terms, I should have said that there is pressure on the dog gear because the engine is turning the prop against the resistance of the water. So to be VERY specific, at idle speed there is resistance from the prop and it WANTS to turn slower but cant because it's in gear. Because of this the dog gear can not disengage so as you shift from either reverse or forward into neutral the kill switch momentarilly kills the ignition so that the engine is NOT putting drive pressure thru the gears on the prop and the drive gear disengages. . A momentary spark interruption does not stop the engine. If you try to do full throttle direction changes, the interrupter should move to prevent damage, but in normal operation, the throttle hits the stop before the shift action proceeds, and the decelleration of the motor unloads the clutch dogs, and if the boat is moving, the flow of water over the prop actually aids in unloading it.... Correct; This kill switch is not necessarry if you are throttleing back from a plane and shift into neutral. The prop is trying to turn faster than the engine because the boat is coming down from speed and the water is turning the prop faster than the engine. It's also not necessary if your prop is out of the water because there is no load on the prop/dog gear Bottom line, the two causes of interrupter activation is attempting high load shifts, either from too rapid shifting at high rpm or misadjusted cables, or a simulated shift load caused by resistance from a damaged cable or possibly a heavily worn selector shaft bushing and seal. Correct wrote: When the boat is in the water and I switch the gear shift to neutral, it will NOT go into neutral most of the time...it just stays at the "no wake" speed but the shifter is in neutral. I have to shift it back and forth to get it to finally go to neutral. Any help would be greatly appreciated. The fact that the control handle is in the neutral position but the clutch is still engaged, is a pretty clear indication that there is not enough throw on the lower cable. This is often caused by the cable end on the interrupter bracket being positioned incorrectly in the slot on the cantilever.. On the v8's and v6's it should be at the bottom of the slot, but if memory serves me correctly, the 4 cyl. plate is inverted and the cable should be at the top of the slot. That will increase throw on the lower cable, and minimize or eliminate any unnecessary movement of the switch. If it was a bad cable, or high rpms, it would stall the motor while hunting back and forth to find neutral. I did have a bad shift cable that didn't cause symptoms like you'd expect, I had a shift cable problem where the kill switch was not being engaged and the outdrive would have problems going into and out of gear. This happened only in the morning and by warming up the engine (shift cable) the problem went away. Replacing the shift cable fixed this problem I also had a bad cable that manifested symptoms that were slightly unusual, the engine would stall when docking, upon further testing it was extreme outdrive angles while shifting that caused the stalling (the only time I used extreme angles (steering) while shifting was when I was docking the boat). Bending the shift cables by having the outdrive at extreme angles caused them to bind internally and hang causing the kill switch to stall the engine. Replacing the shift cable fixed this problem. trainfan1 wrote: Yes, it should... not entirely, just enough to shake the clutch dog off the gear No, it shouldn't, unless something is wrong...or you're shifting improperly, such as lock to lock.. Different adjustment. Of course it is, it's the throttle cable, but that can cause premature opening of the throttle plate, which in turn causes rpms to increase prior to gear engagement,which causes increased effort tho engage the clutch dogs,which should cause the interrupter. to actuate, which causes the boat to stall, etc etc,...But that's what's supposed to happen if the throttle opens too soon.... Jeff Rigby wrote: Probably the shifter cable is bad, your shifter kill switch is not engaging. That is when it would engage, if the cable was bad JIMinFL wrote: The shift bellow doesn't seal water out of the cable. If the bellow leaks the boat will take on water. A defective shift shaft bushing is the main cause for water intrusion into the shift cable You're absolutely right,,, -- John H ******Have a spectacular day!****** |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
It's not a brand new alpha, it'a a 7 year old carbureted 4 cyl.. but I
do agree that an answer as to shifting effort would help diagnosis... |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
EFI? brand new alpha? are you in base timing mode?
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Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
sorry guys..down with a cold for a few days. Thanks for all the
replies. I have no physical difficulty putting it in and out of gear, the process is actually quite smooth. Occasionally, I do hear the shift interupter cut the engine for 1/2 second when I take it out of gear. The engine speed is idled correctly in my opinion...in neutral-on land it usually tach's at 1200-1500 rpm Also, when on land and I put it in fwd, I hear gear grinding for 1/2 sec...kinda like I power shifted a car without pushing in the clutch. I just bought the boat used about 2 months ago and the guy I bought it from had used it in salt water. I do not have the manual nor have I ever worked on a boat so have no idea where the interupter...I guess I get to learn the old fashion way....by looking for it. anyone have any schematics they can throw my way. Trying to prevent from going to a merc dealer....or should i just bite the bullet? ps - it is a carb engine Thank you all again |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
wrote in message oups.com... sorry guys..down with a cold for a few days. Thanks for all the replies. I have no physical difficulty putting it in and out of gear, the process is actually quite smooth. Occasionally, I do hear the shift interupter cut the engine for 1/2 second when I take it out of gear. The engine speed is idled correctly in my opinion...in neutral-on land it usually tach's at 1200-1500 rpm Way too high. What engine? Idle in neutral, depending on engine, should be close to 600 RPM if I recall correctly. Eisboch |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
markvictor wrote:
EFI? brand new alpha? are you in base timing mode? Who are you responding to? What are you responding to? Who said EFI? You're confusing yourself immensley. Take for example a brand new Alpha 135. Disconnect the interrupter. Guess what? It wont come out of gear, even at idle(in water, under way), unless you use the cable and pull the shift lever past neutral into reverse... then guess what? you're in reverse! From neutral, it'll go INTO gear all day long no matter how fast you shift & throttle(& actually, the faster you shift the better for the dog & gears in the foot - none of that chunka-chunka-chunka-chunka-clunk stuff...). Makes docking tough. Now connect the interrupter on our EXAMPLE brand new Alpha 135. Shifts like a dream(at least as good as a dog clutch leg can)! You obviously do not understand the need for an interrupter on the Alpha leg. (135hp is a carb engine) It's for getting out of gear, in water. Engine running. Period. Not running, or on the flush muffs, you don't need the interrupter, in fact it shouldn't even activate... it's action is based on the force needed to overcome the resistance of a drive working against the water, the ratcheted clutch dog teeth embedded into the drive gear, which is the exact problem the OP has. Now he's telling us the idle is twice as high as it should be, which compounds the problem - even more force demanded of that lower shift cable. Without the interrupter, he's headed for a docking, trailering, or maneuvering disaster. Rob |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
trainfan1 wrote: markvictor wrote: EFI? brand new alpha? are you in base timing mode? Who are you responding to? What are you responding to? Who said EFI? You're confusing yourself immensley. Take for example a brand new Alpha 135. Disconnect the interrupter. Guess what? It wont come out of gear, even at idle(in water, under way), unless you use the cable and pull the shift lever past neutral into reverse... then guess what? you're in reverse! From neutral, it'll go INTO gear all day long no matter how fast you shift & throttle(& actually, the faster you shift the better for the dog & gears in the foot - none of that chunka-chunka-chunka-chunka-clunk stuff...). Makes docking tough. Now connect the interrupter on our EXAMPLE brand new Alpha 135. Shifts like a dream(at least as good as a dog clutch leg can)! You obviously do not understand the need for an interrupter on the Alpha leg. (135hp is a carb engine) It's for getting out of gear, in water. Engine running. Period. Not running, or on the flush muffs, you don't need the interrupter, in fact it shouldn't even activate... it's action is based on the force needed to overcome the resistance of a drive working against the water, the ratcheted clutch dog teeth embedded into the drive gear, which is the exact problem the OP has. Now he's telling us the idle is twice as high as it should be, which compounds the problem - even more force demanded of that lower shift cable. Without the interrupter, he's headed for a docking, trailering, or maneuvering disaster. Rob So like I said, he needs to set the idle correctly and adjust his cable correctly and that will most likely permit his drive to shift correctly The only thing confusing me is the the notion that a fixed ratio drive with a positive engagement clutch can have a change in engine speed relative to shaft speed while the clutch is engaged... Immensely only has 2 "e"s |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
markvictor wrote:
trainfan1 wrote: markvictor wrote: EFI? brand new alpha? are you in base timing mode? Who are you responding to? What are you responding to? Who said EFI? You're confusing yourself immensley. Take for example a brand new Alpha 135. Disconnect the interrupter. Guess what? It wont come out of gear, even at idle(in water, under way), unless you use the cable and pull the shift lever past neutral into reverse... then guess what? you're in reverse! From neutral, it'll go INTO gear all day long no matter how fast you shift & throttle(& actually, the faster you shift the better for the dog & gears in the foot - none of that chunka-chunka-chunka-chunka-clunk stuff...). Makes docking tough. Now connect the interrupter on our EXAMPLE brand new Alpha 135. Shifts like a dream(at least as good as a dog clutch leg can)! You obviously do not understand the need for an interrupter on the Alpha leg. (135hp is a carb engine) It's for getting out of gear, in water. Engine running. Period. Not running, or on the flush muffs, you don't need the interrupter, in fact it shouldn't even activate... it's action is based on the force needed to overcome the resistance of a drive working against the water, the ratcheted clutch dog teeth embedded into the drive gear, which is the exact problem the OP has. Now he's telling us the idle is twice as high as it should be, which compounds the problem - even more force demanded of that lower shift cable. Without the interrupter, he's headed for a docking, trailering, or maneuvering disaster. Rob So like I said, he needs to set the idle correctly and adjust his cable correctly and that will most likely permit his drive to shift correctly The only thing confusing me is the the notion that a fixed ratio drive with a positive engagement clutch can have a change in engine speed relative to shaft speed while the clutch is engaged... Immensely only has 2 "e"s 1st, you are misunderstanding the statement. Water flow over the prop while decelerating will unload the drivetrain - will try to "push" the engine - such that the interrupter will not come into play. Gear ratio has nothing to do with it. This is what is happening to the OP on the flush muffs, too... no load - no interrupter needed. 2nd, the Alpha clutch dog gears are back-cut and ramped, so that if the prop is "overturned" it will "skip" teeth. Gear ratio has nothing to do with it. http://marineengineparts.com/shopsit...ia/18-2202.jpg Rob |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
trainfan1 wrote:
markvictor wrote: trainfan1 wrote: markvictor wrote: EFI? brand new alpha? are you in base timing mode? Who are you responding to? What are you responding to? Who said EFI? You're confusing yourself immensley. Take for example a brand new Alpha 135. Disconnect the interrupter. Guess what? It wont come out of gear, even at idle(in water, under way), unless you use the cable and pull the shift lever past neutral into reverse... then guess what? you're in reverse! From neutral, it'll go INTO gear all day long no matter how fast you shift & throttle(& actually, the faster you shift the better for the dog & gears in the foot - none of that chunka-chunka-chunka-chunka-clunk stuff...). Makes docking tough. Now connect the interrupter on our EXAMPLE brand new Alpha 135. Shifts like a dream(at least as good as a dog clutch leg can)! You obviously do not understand the need for an interrupter on the Alpha leg. (135hp is a carb engine) It's for getting out of gear, in water. Engine running. Period. Not running, or on the flush muffs, you don't need the interrupter, in fact it shouldn't even activate... it's action is based on the force needed to overcome the resistance of a drive working against the water, the ratcheted clutch dog teeth embedded into the drive gear, which is the exact problem the OP has. Now he's telling us the idle is twice as high as it should be, which compounds the problem - even more force demanded of that lower shift cable. Without the interrupter, he's headed for a docking, trailering, or maneuvering disaster. Rob So like I said, he needs to set the idle correctly and adjust his cable correctly and that will most likely permit his drive to shift correctly The only thing confusing me is the the notion that a fixed ratio drive with a positive engagement clutch can have a change in engine speed relative to shaft speed while the clutch is engaged... Immensely only has 2 "e"s 1st, you are misunderstanding the statement. Water flow over the prop while decelerating will unload the drivetrain - will try to "push" the engine - such that the interrupter will not come into play. Gear ratio has nothing to do with it. This is what is happening to the OP on the flush muffs, too... no load - no interrupter needed. 2nd, the Alpha clutch dog gears are back-cut and ramped, so that if the prop is "overturned" it will "skip" teeth. Gear ratio has nothing to do with it. http://marineengineparts.com/shopsit...ia/18-2202.jpg Rob If you took the time to read my post, you would have known that I understand that perfectly as I stated that the water underway would unload the clutch, read before you reply... also note the update from the original poster about the lack of effort when the shifter DOES return to the neutral detent, and the drive remains engaged... experience gained from the 5 hundred drives or so that come through our shop each year tells me that by adjusting the shift cable end to the factory position at the bottom of the oval slot will usually solve the symptoms described if the idle is correct...Not always, of course, but any good tech will adjust to spec before recommending parts changing...The interrupt actuates due to high clutch load, or false load caused by a cable, or a bushing or shaft problem, not just as a matter of course.. the poster stated that he does occasionally have interrupter activation, but the drive remains in gear when the control lever is in neutral, so again, I would look at cable adjustment at the cantilever for correct throw and set idle to spec... |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
"markvictor" wrote in message oups.com... If you took the time to read my post, you would have known that I understand that perfectly as I stated that the water underway would unload the clutch, read before you reply... also note the update from the original poster about the lack of effort when the shifter DOES return to the neutral detent, and the drive remains engaged... experience gained from the 5 hundred drives or so that come through our shop each year tells me that by adjusting the shift cable end to the factory position at the bottom of the oval slot will usually solve the symptoms described if the idle is correct...Not always, of course, but any good tech will adjust to spec before recommending parts changing...The interrupt actuates due to high clutch load, or false load caused by a cable, or a bushing or shaft problem, not just as a matter of course.. the poster stated that he does occasionally have interrupter activation, but the drive remains in gear when the control lever is in neutral, so again, I would look at cable adjustment at the cantilever for correct throw and set idle to spec... I think you guys will both agree that the high idle needs to be addressed first. Also, the owner needs to say weather he is having this problem when he shifts back and forth while tied to the dock. This will determine the need to have any discussion on weather or not the sliding clutch is unloaded while shifting underway. Jim |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
Thanks again....
I will try it this weekend at the dock, it may be the idle... again, I do not have the manual so don't know the specs of what the idle should be...so the help you guys provide (or agree upon) is my manual. I will idle it down to 600rpm on land and then take it to the water as my first step to a "cheaper" resolution. thanks Scott |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
135 hp mercruiser 4 cyl
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Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
Not going into idle usually means the shift interupter switch is not working
if it's an alpha. Usually you keep pulling harder and then it goes all the way into the other gear. Alphas are designed so the engine torque holds them in gear. When you pull on the shifter tension on the main cable housing activates the ignition interupter switch on that black plate when the shift cables connect. This causes the engine to hesitate and that takes the torque off the input gear. Then the cable can pull it into neutral. There are adjustment procedures in the manual. You also want to make sure you cables are routed so they do not have any sharp turns. And it is important that the housing on the cable from the shifter not be fastened tightly to anything back near the engine. It is that housing trying to pull opposite the cable that activates the switch. It's a rube goldberg design but when adjusted properly it works. wrote in message oups.com... Thanks again.... I will try it this weekend at the dock, it may be the idle... again, I do not have the manual so don't know the specs of what the idle should be...so the help you guys provide (or agree upon) is my manual. I will idle it down to 600rpm on land and then take it to the water as my first step to a "cheaper" resolution. thanks Scott |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
ok...took the idle down to 600rpm....seems to me what happens is that
if i throttle, then go back to no throttle, the arm ( for lack of terminology) on the carburator does not go back down to its idle speed, it stays in throttle position unless i push it back down with my finger then it goes down to idle speed and stays there..Make sense?? like the spring or something is not returning it to idle position unless it has some "finger force". With that said any suggestions? Thanks again from a newbie to all of you. Carzy thread but I am learning! |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
the linkage might be rusted up. You might need to add a helper spring. The
cable might be binding. With the throttle closed and the shifter in neutral, the cable end should line up to its attachment post. The cable shouldn't be forcing the throttle to close nor should it be holding the throttle open. Take your time and get this right before going on to shift adjustments. You will need the manual for the shift adjustments. Don't try to cheat the factory settings. Good luck. Jim "Scott" wrote in message ups.com... ok...took the idle down to 600rpm....seems to me what happens is that if i throttle, then go back to no throttle, the arm ( for lack of terminology) on the carburator does not go back down to its idle speed, it stays in throttle position unless i push it back down with my finger then it goes down to idle speed and stays there..Make sense?? like the spring or something is not returning it to idle position unless it has some "finger force". With that said any suggestions? Thanks again from a newbie to all of you. Carzy thread but I am learning! |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
Jim you say you are in FL....I am in Orlando.
Anyway,I sprayed the idle adjusting area with wd-40. There is some corrosion in the area and on this boat, I am not sure how to add a helper spring...(i will research that). Today when I pulled the boat onto the trailer from the water, got to the point where I didn't need motor power to push it up and put it in neutral....and it stayed in drive??? I was not even moving! I made sure there was no kinks or resitance on the cable from the shifter to the carb. The only way to get it to finally go into neutral is to go back and forth, in and out of fwd to neutral about three times, I then here the engine die for a split second and it is in neutral. RPM is at 1100 when I finally get it into neutral. It drives me crazy mainly because of the safety factor. Think I should call in the mechanic? Thanks again Scott |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
The idle speed doesn't have that much to do with shifting. Mine idles
pretty around 800rpm because I have a cam in it. It still shifts fine. The shift linkage and interrupt switch has to be adjusted correctly. "Scott" wrote in message ups.com... ok...took the idle down to 600rpm....seems to me what happens is that if i throttle, then go back to no throttle, the arm ( for lack of terminology) on the carburator does not go back down to its idle speed, it stays in throttle position unless i push it back down with my finger then it goes down to idle speed and stays there..Make sense?? like the spring or something is not returning it to idle position unless it has some "finger force". With that said any suggestions? Thanks again from a newbie to all of you. Carzy thread but I am learning! |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
"Scott" wrote in message oups.com... Jim you say you are in FL....I am in Orlando. RPM is at 1100 when I finally get it into neutral. It drives me crazy mainly because of the safety factor. Think I should call in the mechanic? Thanks again Scott Scott, You are talking to a good one (JIMinFL) when it comes to this subject. I went through the same issues you are having (plus several others) with an old Alpha/350 I/O setup. He kept it going reliably for several years. RCE |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
ok ...I added a helper spring to get the idle to return back down to +-
750rpm...working well so far. I did this on land...my next stp is to take it in the water and see if that effects the "going in to neutral" I just don't understand why it works fine on land taking in/out of gear, but when it gets in the water, even if I am not moving, (tied to the dock) it doesn't always go from fwd to neutal....almost like something to do with the electrical components and being grounded out by the water? (have not gotten a chance to try in reverse yet) another work week ...can't touch it till Saturday. Thanks |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
more messing with it...found the shift interrupter switch...seems that
when I go in/out of gear, it only moves maybe 1/16 of an inch; or from here to there (four spaces on the keyboard). the button is not pushing down far at all. from the worn area in the cradle where the button is, seems to have never gone much further than that. It looks like it wants to work because i can manually push it up and down with my finger until completely pushed down ...no problem. Not sure how far it is supposed to move up or down. Thanks again all |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
From everything you have said we can conclude the switch is working. You can
test it, if you want to, with an ohmmeter or you can gently push down on the switch with the engine running. You will find that it doesn't take much movement for the switch to stall the engine. The next thing you should do is buy a manual for the engine and one for the sterndrive. You will find the Mercruiser manuals a lot easier to read than the Clymer or Seloc versions. You probably already know this, but I'll remind you anyway. If you run the engine out of the water you need to feed water to the engine via a garden hose and ear muffs. Jim "Scott" wrote in message ups.com... more messing with it...found the shift interrupter switch...seems that when I go in/out of gear, it only moves maybe 1/16 of an inch; or from here to there (four spaces on the keyboard). the button is not pushing down far at all. from the worn area in the cradle where the button is, seems to have never gone much further than that. It looks like it wants to work because i can manually push it up and down with my finger until completely pushed down ...no problem. Not sure how far it is supposed to move up or down. Thanks again all |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
I looked for related posts on this subject and didn't find any, so if I'm
repeating something already said, just ignore it. 750 Rpm's is a typical idle speed. At the engine where the shift cable connects is a mechanism that rocks as shifting is done. It trips a micro switch and kills the engine for just an instant and thus takes the power off of the gears and allows shifting to occur. The gear dogs are cut at a slight angle so as to pull them into their mating slots and help hold into forward or reverse when under way. With the slightest power, they are holding tight. When the microswitch closes and kills the engine momentarily this power is removed. The most common cause of this difficulty is the shift cable that runs from this mechanism down to the lower unit. This cable is about 18" long. It becomes wet and sticky thus does not operate smoothly and hence the micro switch arrangement does not do it's job. Don Dando wrote in message oups.com... Thanks again.... I will try it this weekend at the dock, it may be the idle... again, I do not have the manual so don't know the specs of what the idle should be...so the help you guys provide (or agree upon) is my manual. I will idle it down to 600rpm on land and then take it to the water as my first step to a "cheaper" resolution. thanks Scott |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
It works on land because there is no load on the prop. The gears are cut so
that a load forces them to stay in gear. The prop pushing aganst the water create a load even at idle. Reverse and forward both work the same way, intterupter switch stalls the motor to remove the load letting the gears come apart easier. You need to push the intterupter switch with your finger while the motor is running to make sure it kills the motor. If it does then it needs adjusting. wrote in message oups.com... ok ...I added a helper spring to get the idle to return back down to +- 750rpm...working well so far. I did this on land...my next stp is to take it in the water and see if that effects the "going in to neutral" I just don't understand why it works fine on land taking in/out of gear, but when it gets in the water, even if I am not moving, (tied to the dock) it doesn't always go from fwd to neutal....almost like something to do with the electrical components and being grounded out by the water? (have not gotten a chance to try in reverse yet) another work week ...can't touch it till Saturday. Thanks |
Mercruiser i/o will not go into neutral
that makes sense...thanks James and all! I will let you know the
outcome if it will ever friggin warm up! |
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