Ohh I like Petes and Grahams posts.

They show exactly what I mean. People want different products. As as long as
companies are producing these boats (heavt or light, cheap og expensive,
blue or white), people know what they are bying and are satisfied with what
they got I see no problem.

I happens to be a Maxi freak (That is .... "Maxi Yacht freak" not Maxi ...
well ... ) with 2 Maxi's so far looking for no 3. So I like Petes example.
And I realise that I could get more boat for the money if a bought a
Bavaria; but I choose not to because I like Maxi and all my Maxi friends

What ****'es me off are sailors that are trying to make owners of certain
makes low-life creatures because they bought a boat with characteristics
they don't like for them self. These years it's Bavaria, ealier it was
Oceanis Clipper and for motor-sailors it's Bayliner.

We live in free countries (most os us) and we should accept peoples choices.
Especially when they know what they are doing. Even when it comes to our
lovely boats.

Exchanging information about the boats and expeciences is quite different.
That I like to share.

Bjarke


"Pete Styles" wrote in message
...


Graham Frankland wrote:

"Pete Styles" wrote in message
...

Graham Frankland wrote:

"Bjarke Christensen" (nej, det skal selvfølgelig
være med K da jeg er dansker) wrote in message
ity.dk...

Isn't Bavaria bad reputation primarily among non-Bavaria-owners? Do you
know of a Bavaria owner that is not satisfied ?


I know owners of 2 Bavarias quite well - one with a 32 likes it with
some reservations and has also had a few problems with the in-mast
reefing with the fractional rig - hardly surprising. The other guy
with a 34 dislikes it and is seriously considering selling. Both
comment that when beating in only moderately rough seas the boats just
don't want to point and they slam a lot. They have both voiced worries
about the light build quality and fittings compared to older heavier
boats they have previously owned.
Graham.

I've got a B32 (10.3mtres loa), bought new 4 years ago for under 50K
(sail away price with a few extras), and still worth roughly the same. I
like it, but with reservations. Anyhow, the boat show was an oportunity
to look at boats that one might prefer to own, so I climbed aboard a Maxi
1050 which I've always fancied. Nice enough boat, but £140K!!!! FFS, its
hardly surprising that a Bavaria isn't quite up to the same standard as a
similar sized boat costing well over twice as much. Looked at another
way, can you really justify a price factor well in excess of x2 for a
boat which is perhaps a bit better built, but which will probably never
go further than the north Brittany coast, and then only in the summer
with a forecast of f6 or less!


You make a good point and that's why they sell well, along with other
French boats, particularly to those who don't want the hassle of working
rather than sailing. Our 1988 well used Moody was actually more expensive
than your brand new boat PLUS I spent around £10k on refit. Fortunately,
I'm able to do 99% of the work myself and prefer the heavier build and sea
keeping qualities as we cover quite a few miles each year around the Irish
Sea and Biscay.

Graham.
For your sort of sailing, I suspect that I'd have spent my money the same
way as you did. As ever, horses for courses.
P.

Bjarke Christensen wrote:

Ohh I like Petes and Grahams posts.

They show exactly what I mean. People want different products. As as long as
companies are producing these boats (heavt or light, cheap og expensive,
blue or white), people know what they are bying and are satisfied with what
they got I see no problem.

I happens to be a Maxi freak (That is .... "Maxi Yacht freak" not Maxi ...
well ... ) with 2 Maxi's so far looking for no 3. So I like Petes example.
And I realise that I could get more boat for the money if a bought a
Bavaria; but I choose not to because I like Maxi and all my Maxi friends

Oh dear, you're making me want one even more :-(

smile

"Pete Styles" wrote in message
...

snip

Oh dear, you're making me want one even more :-(

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:11:29 UTC, "MJ" wrote:

: 9001:2000 was designed to reduce the document burden on companies (although
: sometimes the auditors have the opposite effect, but this is not the fault
: of the standard)

A useful rule of thumb is never, ever to do serious business with any
company which has wasted time on these useless standards which they
could have used on making better stuff cheaper.

Like fishtanks in reception, BS5750 and all its demon spawn are
symptoms of a company in terminal decline. Don't trade with them, Sell
their shares.

Ian

--

"Pete Styles" wrote in message
...
Bjarke Christensen wrote:

Ohh I like Petes and Grahams posts.

They show exactly what I mean. People want different products. As as long
as companies are producing these boats (heavt or light, cheap og
expensive, blue or white), people know what they are bying and are
satisfied with what they got I see no problem.

I happens to be a Maxi freak (That is .... "Maxi Yacht freak" not Maxi ...
well ... ) with 2 Maxi's so far looking for no 3. So I like Petes example.
And I realise that I could get more boat for the money if a bought a
Bavaria; but I choose not to because I like Maxi and all my Maxi friends

Oh dear, you're making me want one even more :-(

Isn't the EU lottery up to 100 million or some such crazy figure at the
moment? Win that and you can buy a fleet of Maxis - and a Crealock for me
please.

Graham.

"Bjarke Christensen" (nej, det skal
selvfølgelig være med K da jeg er dansker) skrev i en
meddelelse
. dk...
Sorry, if it's was a bit over-populistic. What I had in
mind was just that 25% of the boats in the Challenge,
Volvo Ocean race and so on are facing equipment problem. -
and we don't judge these bad quality. Just "high tech".

No doubt that Bavaria 42 Match has a problem. - and
thereby Bavaria as such

Sorry for the customers that spend money on these. I guess
it will be hard to get a good price on a used 42 Match
without extensive, and expensive, improvements to the
hull.

I'm not especially fund of Bavaria. I just think I should
counterbalance the little group of sailors that seems to
think that onle ineffective, non-computerised oldfashioned
work is "good quality".

Remember the definition of "good qulity": That is when you
get exactly what you expect. Good or bad.

Bjarke

Hi Bjarke,

In the late summer of 2003 we were looking at a larger -
"new/second hand" - sailboat. We were talking to several
different brokers and visiting many marinas, and what really
surprised me was, that in three cases we saw different
models of pretty new Bavarias on land with a big (big!)
whole in the hull where the aftermost part of the keel is
mounted to the hull ... Whether it has something to do with
the people sailing the Bavarias or it has something to do
with the construction of the same boats ... I don't know ...

Anyway, we decided for another boat make, and that was
fortunate enough, as we in 2005 did hit something very hard
while sailing above 8 knots in fresh wind ..., but because
of the construction of the hull and keel with a very strong
frame inside the hull on which the keel is bolted with many
bolts, the damage was not that bad (but bad enough ...), at
least, we did not miss the keel, and the boat did not leak
.... so we could continue the sailing ... but the floor in
the cabin and the keel was in pretty bad shape - and we were
shocked ...

--
Flemming Torp
'kun en tåbe frygter ikke haven'