Hi guys,
I would __greatly__ appreciate your help as you seem to really have an excellent grasp of paddling.

My stats: 6'1, 220lbs, 36yo, novice

So this year it is my goal to do the Texas Water Safari (TWS)and a friend lent me this boat he
Bottom View: http://biocycle.atmos.colostate.edu/.../tws03_18a.jpg
In Water:
http://biocycle.atmos.colostate.edu/.../tws03_17a.jpg

It's made by Hydra and it's called something like Rivertours or something. They are apparently out of business. It's about 16'4 and seems to weigh about 60lbs and is plastic. It has a rudder system but it has since broken off and the owner cannot find it so I'm trying to find a replacement.

I paddled it and it doesn't seem to track very well but again, Im a novice so it could just be me. I'm sure you know but just for some, the TWS is 260 miles from San Marcos, TX to the Gulf.

Although the owner paddled the boat and finished in 67 hours, everyone I speak to says I couldn't finish the race in this boat and if I did I would be "grunting it" the whole way. They might be saying that to sell me a better boat I just do not know for sure. (a few are paddling friends that do the race so they are just being honest). They all tell me to go with a Wenonah Voyager, but 1) I cannot afford anything more than 1200 and 2) Being a novice everything seems very tippy to me to be honest and those seem even more so from looking at them.

Race is in June and I am just not sure what to do.

Thanks guys, sorry this is so long. If you have any follow up questions pls ask and Ill keep refreshing this page as I live on the computer alot.

Terry

"Terry" wrote in message
...

Hi guys,
I would __greatly__ appreciate your help as you seem to really have an
excellent grasp of paddling.

My stats: 6'1, 220lbs, 36yo, novice

So this year it is my goal to do the Texas Water Safari (TWS)and a
friend lent me this boat he
Bottom View: http://tinyurl.com/c8t4u
In Water:
http://tinyurl.com/aghcs

It's made by Hydra and it's called something like Rivertours or
something. They are apparently out of business. It's about 16'4 and
seems to weigh about 60lbs and is plastic. It has a rudder system but
it has since broken off and the owner cannot find it so I'm trying to
find a replacement.

I paddled it and it doesn't seem to track very well but again, Im a
novice so it could just be me. I'm sure you know but just for some, the
TWS is 260 miles from San Marcos, TX to the Gulf.

Although the owner paddled the boat and finished in 67 hours, everyone
I speak to says I couldn't finish the race in this boat and if I did I
would be "grunting it" the whole way. They might be saying that to sell
me a better boat I just do not know for sure. (a few are paddling
friends that do the race so they are just being honest). They all tell
me to go with a Wenonah Voyager, but 1) I cannot afford anything more
than 1200 and 2) Being a novice everything seems very tippy to me to be
honest and those seem even more so from looking at them.

Race is in June and I am just not sure what to do.

Thanks guys, sorry this is so long. If you have any follow up questions
pls ask and Ill keep refreshing this page as I live on the computer
alot.

Terry

Hi Terry:
You're going to get a slew of responses, and as a novice I won't go into a
lot of water hydraulics and technical stuff for you, but sum it up. Your
friends are right: you'll hate the whole experience.

If you cannot paddle the boat straight, then you'll spend a LOT of your
energy trying to steer rather than making headway. And you'll spend a lot of
energy trying to overcome the warps in the hull. And you'll spend a lot of
energy trying to push the boat forward. While that is acceptable for an
afternoon outing, a novice doing a 260 mile paddle will spend as much energy
as an expert doing about 1000+ miles...which is a LOT. I don't imagine you
finishing...I expect you'd get into a stubburn headspace in about 5 hours,
push yourself for another 3-5 ('grunting it out'), then quitting in complete
frustration when you found yourself surrounded by a bunch of others in
similar positions: poor equipment, poor conditioning, huge blisters, knotted
muscles, aching back, a rash on your butt, chafing in your armpits, pounding
headache from not drinking, and in over their heads. And really dejected
about the whole paddling thing.

If you really want to do a long distance paddle, not even a race, then
consider renting a boat. A good quality, intermediate range, new edition
boat. Rent it for 6-8 consecutive weekends, and paddle it like crazy. If you
cannot rent a boat, then ask some of your friends to borrow one of theirs
for a day. Then return it with a six pack of beer, and ask if you can borrow
it again the next weekend.

This will do several things for you:

1) it will help you develop those upper body muscles you will need.
2) you will get VERY familiar with your boat and how to paddle it.
3) you will learn to spend as little energy as possible moving the boat,
which leaves you more energy to get the job done.
4) you will start to get knowledgeable about what other stuff you need, and
don't need. Like for drinking, or what clothes to wear, or what gear to own.
5) you won't spend as much money as if you bought a boat outright, be it the
right boat or the wrong boat.
and most of all
6) you will either discover you really love paddling, and you'll be much
more familiar with which boat you might want,
or
7) you will quit and not be a thousand dollars into it with a boat that you
probably couldn't sell.

I would not consider entering any sort of endurance or long-distance event
with novice skills in any sort of substandard equipment. You just have too
much working against you.

--riverman

Excellent advice!

Terry wrote:

My stats: 6'1, 220lbs, 36yo, novice

So this year it is my goal to do the Texas Water Safari (TWS)and a
friend lent me this boat he
Bottom View: http://tinyurl.com/c8t4u
In Water:
http://tinyurl.com/aghcs

Riverman has a pretty good take on the issues. It always amazes me when
a person says they want to start paddling becuase they want to do
something epic as their first trip. A guy locally wanted advice on
kayaking from North Georgia to Mobile Bay. He was giving himself 14 days
for the trip, had never paddled before, and wanted to know what boat to
buy. I think we talked him out of most of it.

Anyway, Terry, you've got some work to do. The TWS is a killer paddle
for experienced racers, so start now working up to it. You might
consider working up to the 2007 race, but maybe you're athletic and
committed enough to make it work.

You've got a boat, so get out in it today. Paddle every day until you
find something better. You'll learn to go straight, which is a good
skill. It wasn't clear if your friend was trying to sell you the Hydra
and I wasn't sure what the 1200 referred to, but that boat is worth
maybe $400, tops. But for $1200 you should be able to find a decent used
touring kayak that you can paddle a couple of years and sell for 2/3
what you paid for it, assuming the TWS doesn't trash it too badly.

Oh, yeah, get somebody who knows something to show you how to paddle
efficiently. Yes, I am advocating training, and maybe you'll even have
to pay a [gasp] "professional" (Just some in-group sarcasm here, Terry,
nothing to do with you). Some of it you can figure out on your own, a
lot you won't, and you don't have a lot of time for trial and error.

Good luck.

Steve
--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

What riverman said! I paddle White water boats mostly, but still keep a
touring boat in the quiver, if you want a crash course on tracking a
boat......borrow a WW boat for a while, they are not designed to go straight
( well with that said you can make ANY boat track when you develop your
strokes), but once you can make the WW boat go straight, touring boats will
be a breeze
"riverman" wrote in message ...

"Terry" wrote in message
...

Hi guys,
I would __greatly__ appreciate your help as you seem to really have an
excellent grasp of paddling.

My stats: 6'1, 220lbs, 36yo, novice

So this year it is my goal to do the Texas Water Safari (TWS)and a
friend lent me this boat he
Bottom View: http://tinyurl.com/c8t4u
In Water:
http://tinyurl.com/aghcs

It's made by Hydra and it's called something like Rivertours or
something. They are apparently out of business. It's about 16'4 and
seems to weigh about 60lbs and is plastic. It has a rudder system but
it has since broken off and the owner cannot find it so I'm trying to
find a replacement.

I paddled it and it doesn't seem to track very well but again, Im a
novice so it could just be me. I'm sure you know but just for some, the
TWS is 260 miles from San Marcos, TX to the Gulf.

Although the owner paddled the boat and finished in 67 hours, everyone
I speak to says I couldn't finish the race in this boat and if I did I
would be "grunting it" the whole way. They might be saying that to sell
me a better boat I just do not know for sure. (a few are paddling
friends that do the race so they are just being honest). They all tell
me to go with a Wenonah Voyager, but 1) I cannot afford anything more
than 1200 and 2) Being a novice everything seems very tippy to me to be
honest and those seem even more so from looking at them.

Race is in June and I am just not sure what to do.

Thanks guys, sorry this is so long. If you have any follow up questions
pls ask and Ill keep refreshing this page as I live on the computer
alot.

Terry

Hi Terry:
You're going to get a slew of responses, and as a novice I won't go into a
lot of water hydraulics and technical stuff for you, but sum it up. Your
friends are right: you'll hate the whole experience.

If you cannot paddle the boat straight, then you'll spend a LOT of your
energy trying to steer rather than making headway. And you'll spend a lot
of
energy trying to overcome the warps in the hull. And you'll spend a lot of
energy trying to push the boat forward. While that is acceptable for an
afternoon outing, a novice doing a 260 mile paddle will spend as much
energy
as an expert doing about 1000+ miles...which is a LOT. I don't imagine you
finishing...I expect you'd get into a stubburn headspace in about 5 hours,
push yourself for another 3-5 ('grunting it out'), then quitting in
complete
frustration when you found yourself surrounded by a bunch of others in
similar positions: poor equipment, poor conditioning, huge blisters,
knotted
muscles, aching back, a rash on your butt, chafing in your armpits,
pounding
headache from not drinking, and in over their heads. And really dejected
about the whole paddling thing.

If you really want to do a long distance paddle, not even a race, then
consider renting a boat. A good quality, intermediate range, new edition
boat. Rent it for 6-8 consecutive weekends, and paddle it like crazy. If
you
cannot rent a boat, then ask some of your friends to borrow one of theirs
for a day. Then return it with a six pack of beer, and ask if you can
borrow
it again the next weekend.

This will do several things for you:

1) it will help you develop those upper body muscles you will need.
2) you will get VERY familiar with your boat and how to paddle it.
3) you will learn to spend as little energy as possible moving the boat,
which leaves you more energy to get the job done.
4) you will start to get knowledgeable about what other stuff you need,
and
don't need. Like for drinking, or what clothes to wear, or what gear to
own.
5) you won't spend as much money as if you bought a boat outright, be it
the
right boat or the wrong boat.
and most of all
6) you will either discover you really love paddling, and you'll be much
more familiar with which boat you might want,
or
7) you will quit and not be a thousand dollars into it with a boat that
you
probably couldn't sell.

I would not consider entering any sort of endurance or long-distance event
with novice skills in any sort of substandard equipment. You just have too
much working against you.

--riverman

Hi Steve,
When you say "It always amazes me when
a person says they want to start paddling becuase they want to do
something epic as their first trip. "

When I was 19 a guy told me about the race and I wanted to do it. I did alot of things in life but did not do the race. Then a guy I work with did it and I realized at age 36 that life is passing me by.

I want to do this race not because I will win but because it's been a life goal for a long time, would be a great motivator and goal for me getting in shape the way I wish to be, and seems like a great way to challenge myself.

Thanks for the above advice all. I will let you guys know how I do.
Terry

On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 22:34:17 +0000, Terry wrote:

Hi Steve,
When you say "It always amazes me when
a person says they want to start paddling becuase they want to do
something epic as their first trip. "

When I was 19 a guy told me about the race and I wanted to do it. I did
alot of things in life but did not do the race. Then a guy I work with
did it and I realized at age 36 that life is passing me by.

I want to do this race not because I will win but because it's been a
life goal for a long time, would be a great motivator and goal for me
getting in shape the way I wish to be, and seems like a great way to
challenge myself.

Thanks for the above advice all. I will let you guys know how I do.
Terry

Terry, you say in your first post that you are 6'1", 220 lbs, 36 yo.

I can envy you your stats, being 6'2", 270 lbs, 56 yo. I could wish I
was still 36 and 220 lbs. I would settle for 36!

I would not say for sure, but I expect that you are already 30-40 lbs
over medical ideal weight, which would indicate that you are not the
most athletic, though may have been before. I would recommend that you
get a good physical checkup before trying this race. Get lots of
training, and lose some weight, like 40 lbs.

If this was one of your dreams and it is passing you by, I expect that
there are other dreams that are passing you by as well. Welcome to the
human condition! You might want to start with some of the simpler
dreams, achieve those, and get into shape for this monster, or it will
eat you alive, and you could get frustrated about even trying those
other dreams.

The exact boat you use will be more insignificant than a lot of other
factors that you appear to be disregarding. Be sure and wear a helmet,
and a good PFD. That way when you pass out, you don't hit your head
and drown, and if you do drown, you will float and be easier to find.

Otherwise have fun carrying that 60 lb boat and all your other gear on
some of the portages that try the hearts of man and beast.
RkyMtnHootOwl OvO

in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 1/7/06 8:55 PM:

On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 22:34:17 +0000, Terry wrote:

Hi Steve,
When you say "It always amazes me when
a person says they want to start paddling becuase they want to do
something epic as their first trip. "

When I was 19 a guy told me about the race and I wanted to do it. I did
alot of things in life but did not do the race. Then a guy I work with
did it and I realized at age 36 that life is passing me by.

I want to do this race not because I will win but because it's been a
life goal for a long time, would be a great motivator and goal for me
getting in shape the way I wish to be, and seems like a great way to
challenge myself.

Thanks for the above advice all. I will let you guys know how I do.
Terry

Terry, you say in your first post that you are 6'1", 220 lbs, 36 yo.

I can envy you your stats, being 6'2", 270 lbs, 56 yo. I could wish I
was still 36 and 220 lbs. I would settle for 36!

I would not say for sure, but I expect that you are already 30-40 lbs
over medical ideal weight

"Medical ideal weight" sounds like a total bull**** concept along the lines
of the Body Mass Index, which is really nothing more than the old "weight
charts" our grandparents and great grandparents might have seen.

Your height and weight doesn't provide nearly enough information to make a
determination about one's health. It obviously depends on the type of body
you have, where you are carrying the weight on that body, and the type of
life you lead. There are a great many professional athletes in the same
proportion as 6"1 and 220.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 00:36:06 -0500, KMAN wrote:

in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 1/7/06 8:55 PM:

On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 22:34:17 +0000, Terry wrote:

Hi Steve,
When you say "It always amazes me when
a person says they want to start paddling becuase they want to do
something epic as their first trip. "

When I was 19 a guy told me about the race and I wanted to do it. I did
alot of things in life but did not do the race. Then a guy I work with
did it and I realized at age 36 that life is passing me by.

I want to do this race not because I will win but because it's been a
life goal for a long time, would be a great motivator and goal for me
getting in shape the way I wish to be, and seems like a great way to
challenge myself.

Thanks for the above advice all. I will let you guys know how I do.
Terry

Terry, you say in your first post that you are 6'1", 220 lbs, 36 yo.

I can envy you your stats, being 6'2", 270 lbs, 56 yo. I could wish I
was still 36 and 220 lbs. I would settle for 36!

I would not say for sure, but I expect that you are already 30-40 lbs
over medical ideal weight

"Medical ideal weight" sounds like a total bull**** concept along the lines
of the Body Mass Index, which is really nothing more than the old "weight
charts" our grandparents and great grandparents might have seen.

Your height and weight doesn't provide nearly enough information to make a
determination about one's health. It obviously depends on the type of body
you have, where you are carrying the weight on that body, and the type of
life you lead. There are a great many professional athletes in the same
proportion as 6"1 and 220.

Yes Kman you are correct, and those same pro athletes would consult a
physician before embarking on such a difficult training regimen and
goal as the TWS. At 36, most of those athletes would be considered
beyond their prime, depending on their chosen sport endeavors. OvO

John Fereira wrote:

Attempting to paddle the race you're considering with a fairly short (by
touring boat standards) plastic boat with some serious hull deformities (oil
canning) is like attempting to run a marathon in street shoes because you
walk to work every day.

Excellent analogy, John. I'll have to remember that one.