Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

Using Circular Hooks is becoming popular as a way to improve the odds of
fish surviving when released.

With the spread of Shark Fishing Tournaments (as seen on a new reality TV
show) how do people improve the odds of a Shark surviving a catch and
release. I know some people just cut the leader, but that seems like it
impacts on the fish's ability to hunt and opens the fish to infection by
having a wound that will not heal.

Does the hook and leader rust or is the fish destined to carry around a hook
and leader for ever? Is it just me or do some aspects of fishing seem
pretty brutal and barbaric?

--
************************************************** ************************
If you would like to make rec.boats an enjoyable place to discuss
boating, please do not respond to the political and inflammatory
off- topic posts and flames.
************************************************** **************************

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
Using Circular Hooks is becoming popular as a way to improve the odds of
fish surviving when released.

With the spread of Shark Fishing Tournaments (as seen on a new reality TV
show) how do people improve the odds of a Shark surviving a catch and
release. I know some people just cut the leader, but that seems like it
impacts on the fish's ability to hunt and opens the fish to infection by
having a wound that will not heal.

Does the hook and leader rust or is the fish destined to carry around a
hook and leader for ever? Is it just me or do some aspects of fishing
seem pretty brutal and barbaric?


I was speaking with a NY DEC biologist about a month ago. He said he'd just
been to a seminar on the results of catch & release, where one discussion
focused on the results of catch & release. It may not be the panacea it was
made out to be. Fish apparently build up huge amounts of lactic acid in
their muscles as they're being caught, and they may not recover from the
experience. The fact that a fish swims away is no indication of future
survival, because in many cases, the fisherman is a moron who picks up the
fish around the mouth and gills, thereby damaging the gills. Removal of
lactic acid from the bloodstream requires efficient breathing, which can't
happen when the gills are damaged. And, even a minute out of the water for a
photograph is enough to cause trouble.

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

I was speaking with a NY DEC biologist about a month ago. He said he'd
just been to a seminar on the results of catch & release, where one
discussion focused on the results of catch & release. It may not be the
panacea it was made out to be. Fish apparently build up huge amounts of
lactic acid in their muscles as they're being caught, and they may not
recover from the experience. The fact that a fish swims away is no
indication of future survival, because in many cases, the fisherman is a
moron who picks up the fish around the mouth and gills, thereby damaging
the gills. Removal of lactic acid from the bloodstream requires efficient
breathing, which can't happen when the gills are damaged. And, even a
minute out of the water for a photograph is enough to cause trouble.


I use light wire circle hooks, the lighter the better, and snip off and
file down the barb. When I want to release anything other than a trash
fish, I usually can grab the end of the hook with my long nose pliers and
wiggle it out of the corner of the fish's mouth without lifting the fish
completely out of the water.

You have to be really careful with toothy, aggressive fish, for obvious
reasons. I lift blues out of the water behind the gills and release them
the same way.

If I can't get the hook out of the corner, I snip off the leader and line.
Since I'm using light ferrous hooks, I'm pretty confident they'll rust out
fairly quickly.

There's no doubt, however, that sal****er fish caught and released do not
have the same high survival rate as, say, freshwater largemouth bass who
are caught and released.

Actually, there has to be doubt. It's easier to tag and study fish in a
lake, where, assuming they're not caught and eaten, they're more likely to
be seen again. In the ocean, there are no boundaries.

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

Harry's comments referenced my questions concerning removing the hook from
the fish (and the hook rusting away) and what some fisherman are doing to
minimize the damage to fish caused by the hook, but they did not reference
Doug's comment about Lactic Acid. I did a quick search on "Catch and
Release Lactic Acid" and found

http://seagrant.gso.uri.edu/factshee...elease_fs.html

See article below. After reading this article, I think I understand why I
see so many dead fish floating around my lake. Catch and Release can be
very tramatic on the fish. It allows a fisherman to continue to legally
fish after catching many fish, but may still be devastating on the
fisheries. If lake fishing using catch and release is tough on the fish, I
can't imagine what the survivor rate for a large billfish or a shark is.
They have to not only contend with the wound damage, but the lactic acid and
"decompression" problems. The article states " barbless hooks ... for
reasons still unclear, may not significantly reduce mortality, especially
when used with bait."


http://seagrant.gso.uri.edu/factshee...elease_fs.html

Why Do Hooked Fish Die?
Fish that are caught and released may die for several reasons, but the two
primary causes are stress and wounding. Stress results from the fish
fighting after being hooked. Internally, the physical exertion causes an
oxygen deficit in the tissues, forcing the muscles to function anaerobically
(without oxygen). This causes lactic acid to build up in the muscle tissue,
and then to diffuse into the blood. Lactic acid acts as an acid in the
blood, causing the pH of the blood to drop. Even slight changes in pH can
cause major disruptions of the metabolic processes, ultimately killing the
fish. If the fish is quickly released, its blood pH usually returns to
normal and the fish will be unaffected. Some fish, after a long tow, may
appear to live once released, but the imbalance in the blood chemistry may
kill them as late as three days after being caught. In most cases, the means
of preventing this type of mortality is to not keep the fish in action for a
long period of time, unless the intent is to keep it.

The other primary cause of mortality is wounding by the hook. Injuries
caused by hooks can range from very minor to lethal. The degree of injury is
dependent on the location of the hook wound. Higher mortalities will occur
in fish that are hooked in the gill or stomach areas, while lower
mortalities occur in fish that are hooked in the lip, jaw, or cheek areas.
Baited hooks are more likely to result in a gill or stomach hooking that
artificial lures. Treble hooks, for obvious reasons, will result in more
puncture wounds and subsequently higher mortalities. Barbless hooks
facilitate release and decrease "out-of-water" time, but for reasons yet
unclear, may not significantly reduce mortality, especially when used with
bait.

There are other kinds of physiological stress that can lead to higher
mortalities in released fish. Fish may not be able to adjust to changes in
pressure or to higher surface water temperatures. Also, when a fish is
handled or comes in contact with dry surfaces, such as landing nets or dry
hands, its mucous layers - commonly called slime layers - may be partially
removed, presenting an opportunity for bacteria or pathogens to invade the
skin.

Burping and Puncturing

When certain fish are brought up from depths greater than 40 feet too
quickly, their swim bladders, which normally control buoyancy, can
overinflate from rapid depressurization. Burping is a technique used on a
fish with an overinflated swim bladder. The fish is massaged in the belly
region in an attempt to release the excess air in the swim bladder.
Puncturing involves using a needle or ice pick to poke a hole in the fish's
exposed swim bladder. Both of these techniques are currently being advocated
in other parts of the country. However, if the procedure is not carried out
correctly, more damage than good may be done to the fish.

The success of burping depends on the species of fish. Some fish, such as
largemouth bass, perch, striped bass, cod, hake, and black sea bass, do not
have a connection from their gut to their swim bladder. If a fish's gut is
not connected to its swim bladder, then burping is impossible. Puncturing is
a very controversial technique. To date, there is no evidence that
puncturing will increase a fish's chance of survival.

The best advice for releasing fish with overinflated swim bladders is to let
them go as quickly as possible.

NEVER ATTEMPT TO BURP OR PUNCTURE A FISH WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT TO DO!

Catch-and-Release Guidelines

These guidelines provide basic information on the most beneficial
catch-and-release methods for most small- to medium-sized freshwater and
marine fish:

a.. If you plan to fish with artificial lures, such as plugs and spoons,
consider replacing treble hooks with single hooks. Single hooks are quicker
and easier to remove, especially when dealing with such predatory fish as
bluefish and northern pike. Consider pinching the barb on your hooks, since
this will make releasing the fish much easier.
b.. Plan your release strategy. Decide whether to keep or release any fish
prior to angling or at least before removing the fish from the water.
Familiarize yourself with any regulations in effect for the species
targeted, and gather any items that will facilitate handling and releasing
the fish.
c.. When a fish is hooked, use a steady, deliberate retrieval technique.
This can reduce the amount of stress a hooked fish undergoes when pulled up
from the depths too quickly, or when physically exhausted from an overly
slow retrieve.
d.. Once you have decided on releasing the fish, avoid netting or even
removing it from the water if possible. Use needle-nosed pliers to pry the
hook from the fish while it is still in the water. Fish that can be lifted
by the leader - the short length of line used to attach the end of the
fishing line to the lure or hook - can easily be released over the rail
using a "dehooker." These devices, whether homemade or purchased, are
gaining in popularity in the bluefish industry - to avoid the fish's nasty
teeth - and are useful for releasing a number of other species. A dehooker
may simply be a metal rod with a handle at one end and a small upturned hook
at the other end. If live bait or a lure is deeply embedded in the fish's
gullet, cut the leader close to the fish's mouth and let the fish keep the
hook. Studies have shown that fish can get rid of the hook up to 120 days
later.
e.. When landing the fish, it is important to minimize out-of-water time
and any fish contact with surrounding surfaces or objects.
a.. Avoid using landing nets if possible. If a landing net must be used,
one with a neoprene bag rather than natural twine should be used. Neoprene
removes less of the fish's mucous coat.

b.. Do not use a gaff!

a.. Keep hands moistened. This helps prevent removal of the fish's
natural protective mucous layer, and reduces the chance of subsequent
infections in the fish's skin.

b.. Minimize handling, particularly of the gills and soft underbelly.
Gently prevent the fish from battering itself on surrounding hard surfaces.
Place the fish on an old piece of foam cushion and place a wet rag or gloved
hand over the fish's eye. These two actions can do much to subdue even
unruly tuna and bluefish.

a.. Return the fish to the water headfirst. In most cases, it is best to
point the fish's head straight down and allow the fish to plunge down into
the water.

--
************************************************** ************************
If you would like to make rec.boats an enjoyable place to discuss
boating, please do not respond to the political and inflammatory
off- topic posts and flames.
************************************************** **************************


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

I was speaking with a NY DEC biologist about a month ago. He said he'd
just been to a seminar on the results of catch & release, where one
discussion focused on the results of catch & release. It may not be the
panacea it was made out to be. Fish apparently build up huge amounts of
lactic acid in their muscles as they're being caught, and they may not
recover from the experience. The fact that a fish swims away is no
indication of future survival, because in many cases, the fisherman is a
moron who picks up the fish around the mouth and gills, thereby damaging
the gills. Removal of lactic acid from the bloodstream requires efficient
breathing, which can't happen when the gills are damaged. And, even a
minute out of the water for a photograph is enough to cause trouble.


I use light wire circle hooks, the lighter the better, and snip off and
file down the barb. When I want to release anything other than a trash
fish, I usually can grab the end of the hook with my long nose pliers and
wiggle it out of the corner of the fish's mouth without lifting the fish
completely out of the water.

You have to be really careful with toothy, aggressive fish, for obvious
reasons. I lift blues out of the water behind the gills and release them
the same way.

If I can't get the hook out of the corner, I snip off the leader and line.
Since I'm using light ferrous hooks, I'm pretty confident they'll rust out
fairly quickly.

There's no doubt, however, that sal****er fish caught and released do not
have the same high survival rate as, say, freshwater largemouth bass who
are caught and released.

Oh, I also try to minimize the time I am fighting the fish. I use line
heavier enough for the job. There's nothing in my part of the Bay that
requires more than 12 or 14 pound test. I use 20 pound fluoro as a shock
leader.

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

All this explains why I have changed my fishing habits. For instance, a
buddy of mine loves fishing for muskies. But, they're not especially good to
eat. He just catches them (rarely, thankfully), photographs them, and puts
them back. I won't target certain fish unless I plan on eating them.
Obviously, you can't always choose what you're going to catch, but sometimes
you know the odds of catching certain kinds are higher. For instance, I
often fish in a certain stream where there's nothing but trout, and the
occasional baby pike that wanders up from a larger river. The stream's no
more than a foot or two deep, so the business about the swim bladder isn't
an issue. I use Mepps (or similar spinners), which come with extremely small
treble hooks, too easily swallowed by the fish. I've gradually been changing
them to much larger single hooks, which means the trout are lip hooked most
of the time. If I can see right away that the fish is too small to keep, I
can sometimes release them by just letting the line go slack, and they'll
shake themselves off. If I want two for dinner, I stop after I catch two.
The limit is 5. If I'm positive I'll have the time to freeze them properly,
I'll go after more.

Especially if I'm fishing from the boat, I always try and have a good book
along for the ride. Fishing's only half the reason I'm out there. I'd rather
read (or just stare at the clouds) than kill more fish than I need. This
makes perfect sense to responsible hunters, who don't shoot 23 deer until
they finally get one that's OK to take home.

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

Reggie Smithers wrote:
Using Circular Hooks is becoming popular as a way to improve the odds of
fish surviving when released.

With the spread of Shark Fishing Tournaments (as seen on a new reality TV
show) how do people improve the odds of a Shark surviving a catch and
release. I know some people just cut the leader, but that seems like it
impacts on the fish's ability to hunt and opens the fish to infection by
having a wound that will not heal.

Does the hook and leader rust or is the fish destined to carry around a hook
and leader for ever? Is it just me or do some aspects of fishing seem
pretty brutal and barbaric?

part of the problem with catch and release, is most people do not do it
correctly. i'm well past annoyed at some of the local fishing guides /
so-called experts who get a cable show and have some of the worst fish
handling techniques. for them it is all about the monster hook set, and
the money shot for the camera. i laugh when i see these guys practically
knock themselves over backwards to set a hook. how many times have you
seen these yahoos grab a fish by the mouth or gills and hold it in the
air for an extended time? for some, it is every time. i simply stop
watching their shows and have stop patronizing their sponsors.

those shark fishing tournaments are the worst of the bunch. and they
'catch to kill' about everything they hook. i watched that show ONE
time. if i ever do turn on that show again, it will only be to make note
of the sponsors so i can let them know.

done properly, the fish really do have a pretty decent chance at survival.

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
DownTime wrote:

those shark fishing tournaments are the worst of the bunch. and they
'catch to kill' about everything they hook. i watched that show ONE time.
if i ever do turn on that show again, it will only be to make note of the
sponsors so i can let them know.


I don't watch those "shark killing" shows, because the premise is
sickening, but there's always hope one of the fishermen will fall into the
water and be eaten.

When I was a kid, shark fishermen in Montauk would bring home just the heads
from their little jaunts, and hang them on telephone poles around the
various marinas. Nice.

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

Sharks are very hardy animals. We use steel hooks, no stainless, leave
a steel hook in salt water and you will be surprised just how fast they
rust out. As far as barbaric, it is very common to hook a shark, tag
and release him, only to catch the same fish again only a short time
later, sometimes multiple times. I've seen them cut off and just swim
over to the next bait and take that one. And they don't seem to mind
hooks in their mouth while they rust out. As far as circle hooks, for
most fish I would agree, circle hooks are the way to go. But most
sharks are hooked in the mouth, it's because they tend to pick up a
bait in their mouth and swim off with it before swallowing it. Their
kind of like when you feed a group of dogs, or, for that matter, most
animals, they grab their food and get away from the group before eating
it, so no one else can grab it. Most fishermen will let a shark run for
a short distance before trying to set the hook, their's not much time
for the shark to actually swallow the bait to the point that it's in
its stomach. So, for the most part, the fish are hooked in the mouth,
no one wants to keep cutting off more expensive circle hooks, some may
be tempted to hang the shark until it's dead to get them back (on a
good day you can go through lots of hooks) and that defeats the whole
purpose.

On fish like Striped Bass, I can see them having a higher mortality
rate. With them use heavier line if your releasing the fish, to get
them in ASAP, they will not be as tired. Also, resist the urge to bring
the fish into the boat to take the hook out, do it with the fish still
in the water, the less you handle them and the sooner the fight is
over, the better the chances of surviving.

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

Tom,
Thanks for the undated.


--
************************************************** ************************
If you would like to make rec.boats an enjoyable place to discuss
boating, please do not respond to the political and inflammatory
off- topic posts and flames.
************************************************** **************************


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 13:51:10 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
Using Circular Hooks is becoming popular as a way to improve the odds of
fish surviving when released.

With the spread of Shark Fishing Tournaments (as seen on a new reality
TV
show) how do people improve the odds of a Shark surviving a catch and
release. I know some people just cut the leader, but that seems like it
impacts on the fish's ability to hunt and opens the fish to infection by
having a wound that will not heal.

Does the hook and leader rust or is the fish destined to carry around a
hook and leader for ever? Is it just me or do some aspects of fishing
seem pretty brutal and barbaric?


I was speaking with a NY DEC biologist about a month ago. He said he'd
just
been to a seminar on the results of catch & release, where one discussion
focused on the results of catch & release. It may not be the panacea it
was
made out to be. Fish apparently build up huge amounts of lactic acid in
their muscles as they're being caught, and they may not recover from the
experience. The fact that a fish swims away is no indication of future
survival, because in many cases, the fisherman is a moron who picks up the
fish around the mouth and gills, thereby damaging the gills. Removal of
lactic acid from the bloodstream requires efficient breathing, which can't
happen when the gills are damaged. And, even a minute out of the water for
a
photograph is enough to cause trouble.

i am typing with one finger - i wish i could enter this discussion.

i will say this - shark tourneys are an abomination and should be
banned unless they are in-water tag and release similar to xtreme
billfishing tourneys.

as to catch/release, it is almost never done properly hook set and
retrieval is never done properly and while it sounds good c/r hurts
more fish than it saves. it is really the fault of the quote pros end
quote who can't properly handle a fish and dont care.

the operation went well, i am very tired and can't do much. i was
tired of sitting around tv sucks and i netflix is slower than
molasses. i have to do everything left handed.

maybe in a month i can return and beat everyone up. smile. even
typing this is exhausting.

later

tom

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


i have to do everything left handed.

later

tom


Everything?

Hope you heal and feel better fast.

Eisboch

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


i have to do everything left handed.

later

tom


Everything?

Hope you heal and feel better fast.

Eisboch

Hope you have a speedy recovery, and next time, keep your right hand out
of the garbage disposal while it is running.

Is that really what happened to him?????

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


i have to do everything left handed.

later

tom


Everything?

Hope you heal and feel better fast.

Eisboch

Hope you have a speedy recovery, and next time, keep your right hand out
of the garbage disposal while it is running.

Is that really what happened to him?????


Nope. Rotator cuff injury and operation.

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

as to catch/release, it is almost never done properly hook set and
retrieval is never done properly and while it sounds good c/r hurts
more fish than it saves.

Proper "Catch and release hurts more fish than it saves?" Are you sure you
phrased that correctly? Afterall, the vast majority of fish caught and
released live to be fooled again.


it is really the fault of the quote pros end
quote who can't properly handle a fish and dont care.

the operation went well, i am very tired and can't do much. i was
tired of sitting around tv sucks and i netflix is slower than
molasses. i have to do everything left handed.


Here's to wishing you a speedy recovery! (because I'm sick of reading
sentences without the proper capitalization of words at the beginning of
sentences) ;-)

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

as to catch/release, it is almost never done properly hook set and
retrieval is never done properly and while it sounds good c/r hurts
more fish than it saves.

Proper "Catch and release hurts more fish than it saves?" Are you sure you
phrased that correctly? Afterall, the vast majority of fish caught and
released live to be fooled again.

You should know better than to say something as statistically outrageous as
that. Let's focus on red snapper, for instance. What percentage of them are
tagged or marked in some way, so they can be identified later?

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

as to catch/release, it is almost never done properly hook set and
retrieval is never done properly and while it sounds good c/r hurts
more fish than it saves.

Proper "Catch and release hurts more fish than it saves?" Are you sure
you phrased that correctly? Afterall, the vast majority of fish caught
and released live to be fooled again.

You should know better than to say something as statistically outrageous
as that. Let's focus on red snapper, for instance. What percentage of them
are tagged or marked in some way, so they can be identified later?

Go on floridasportsman.com fishing forums and send an IM to a member named
C. undecimalis (Alexis Trotter) if you think I'm wrong. She lives in St.
Pete, works for FWC, and studies mortality rates of c/r snook.

Here's what her study showed:


General Catch and Release Mortality:
Estimated at 2.13%.
Determined in a controlled study in which 470 common snook, between 205 and
1120 mm TL (8.1" to 44.1"), were caught and held in net pens for set amount
of times.
All were held for at least 48 hours, 20.4% were held for 96 hours, 30.8%
were held for 120 hours, 3.2% were held for 288 hours.
All of the fish that died, 10 of them (or 2.13%), died within 24 hours of
capture. Terminal gear type, temperature, and fish length has no significant
effects on mortality.
The only variable that significantly effected survival was hook location. 5
of the 10 fish died after being hooked in the mouth, 4 after being hooked in
the throat or stomach, and 1 was foul-hooked.
24 snook were hooked in the throat or stomach. Of these, 12 had the hooks
removed and 12 had just the leader cut and the hook left in place. The 4
snook that died from being hooked in the throat or stomach were all fish
that had had the hook removed.

2.13% catch and release mortality is a very low value and over 90% of all
snook that are caught are released. This all seems like a good thing (and it
is), but it can become scary to a biologist or fisheries manager when you
consider the numbers. For instance:
In 2001, it was estimated that about 1,800,000 snook were caught statewide
and about 70,000 were harvested. About 1,730,000 were released. 2.14% of
that, or 36,849 snook, died from catch and release mortality. Almost 35% of
total measurable mortality. Deaths from poaching and natural mortality (cold
kills, red tide kills, etc) are hard to determine.

How to reduce catch and release mortality:
Reduce fight time by using heavy enough gear for the size of fish being
targeted.
Circle hooks are never a bad thing.
Crimp barbs on hooks.
If possible, leave the snook in the water when de-hooking.
If you have to take it out of the water, use wet hands or wet cotton gloves
and support it's belly.
Never hold a snook, particularly a large one, by it's lower jaw. This can
damage the isthmus (group of muscles and tendons that attaches the jaw to
the body and is responsible for the gulping/sucking feeding movements).
When reviving, hold the snook facing into the current and only move it in a
forward direction.

Sorry that was so long, but hope it helps. Let me know if I didn't explain
something very well or if there are any other questions.

Alexis



-----------------------------------------------------------------


So as I said: "the vast majority of fish caught and released live to be
fooled again."

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
i am typing with one finger - i wish i could enter this discussion.

i will say this - shark tourneys are an abomination and should be
banned unless they are in-water tag and release similar to xtreme
billfishing tourneys.

as to catch/release, it is almost never done properly hook set and
retrieval is never done properly and while it sounds good c/r hurts
more fish than it saves. it is really the fault of the quote pros end
quote who can't properly handle a fish and dont care.

the operation went well, i am very tired and can't do much. i was
tired of sitting around tv sucks and i netflix is slower than
molasses. i have to do everything left handed.

maybe in a month i can return and beat everyone up. smile. even
typing this is exhausting.

later

tom

get well soon! we'll try to keep the lines tight in your absense...

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

NYOB and Doug,

I think Tom left a comma out while typing with one hand.

I think he meant to say: as to catch/release, it is almost never done
properly hook set and retrieval is never done properly and while it sounds
good, c/r hurts
more fish than it saves.

I read this to mean, that of those fish who are caught and released more
than 50% of the fish die anyway.

I have no idea if this is accurate, but what I have read the death rate
among catch and release is very high, even with barbless and circle hooks.



--
************************************************** ************************
If you would like to make rec.boats an enjoyable place to discuss
boating, please do not respond to the political and inflammatory
off- topic posts and flames.
************************************************** **************************


"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

as to catch/release, it is almost never done properly hook set and
retrieval is never done properly and while it sounds good c/r hurts
more fish than it saves.

Proper "Catch and release hurts more fish than it saves?" Are you sure you
phrased that correctly? Afterall, the vast majority of fish caught and
released live to be fooled again.


it is really the fault of the quote pros end
quote who can't properly handle a fish and dont care.

the operation went well, i am very tired and can't do much. i was
tired of sitting around tv sucks and i netflix is slower than
molasses. i have to do everything left handed.


Here's to wishing you a speedy recovery! (because I'm sick of reading
sentences without the proper capitalization of words at the beginning of
sentences) ;-)

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

as to catch/release, it is almost never done properly hook set and
retrieval is never done properly and while it sounds good c/r hurts
more fish than it saves.

Proper "Catch and release hurts more fish than it saves?" Are you sure
you phrased that correctly? Afterall, the vast majority of fish caught
and released live to be fooled again.

You should know better than to say something as statistically outrageous
as that. Let's focus on red snapper, for instance. What percentage of
them are tagged or marked in some way, so they can be identified later?

Go on floridasportsman.com fishing forums and send an IM to a member named
C. undecimalis (Alexis Trotter) if you think I'm wrong. She lives in St.
Pete, works for FWC, and studies mortality rates of c/r snook.

Here's what her study showed:


General Catch and Release Mortality:
Estimated at 2.13%.

It's an interesting study, but it only applies to snook placed in a holding
tank after being caught. How tough is a snook? My only frame of reference
would be fresh water fish at the moment. If I release a weakened smallmouth
bass in a lake where there are no pike around, it's got a better chance of
survival than if there ARE pike, which will spot a crippled fish and turn it
into dinner very quickly. If I release a weakened pike (and it's pretty hard
to do that to a pike), the fish has sharp enough fins & gill covers that not
much will attack it while it's getting its wits about it again.

You can't point to one study and say it's conclusive about all fish.

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...



i have to do everything left handed.

later

tom


Everything?

Hope you heal and feel better fast.

Eisboch

Hope you have a speedy recovery, and next time, keep your right hand out
of the garbage disposal while it is running.


Is that really what happened to him?????


I heard his wife whupped him when he sassed her.

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:20:26 -0500, "Reggie Smithers"
wrote:

Using Circular Hooks is becoming popular as a way to improve the odds of
fish surviving when released.

With the spread of Shark Fishing Tournaments (as seen on a new reality TV
show) how do people improve the odds of a Shark surviving a catch and
release. I know some people just cut the leader, but that seems like it
impacts on the fish's ability to hunt and opens the fish to infection by
having a wound that will not heal.

Does the hook and leader rust or is the fish destined to carry around a hook
and leader for ever? Is it just me or do some aspects of fishing seem
pretty brutal and barbaric?

I would say that circle hooks would work as well with sharks as any other species.
Yes, they would be rough to remove, so cutting the leader and leaving the hook in the
lip is probably the only alternative.

I see humans all the time with metal things in their lips, and it doesn't seem to
shorten their life much.

A hook in the corner of the mouth would still leave the shark in much better shape
than a gut hook would, especially after some fighting which would rip up more of the
shark's insides.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

Those articles are the reasons I don't fish after catching my limit, or whatever I
plan to eat right away. Sometimes this ****es off the people fishing with me, who
think that as long as the bite is hot we should keep fishing. But, what the hell!

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:43:33 -0500, "Reggie Smithers"
wrote:

Harry's comments referenced my questions concerning removing the hook from
the fish (and the hook rusting away) and what some fisherman are doing to
minimize the damage to fish caused by the hook, but they did not reference
Doug's comment about Lactic Acid. I did a quick search on "Catch and
Release Lactic Acid" and found

http://seagrant.gso.uri.edu/factshee...elease_fs.html

See article below. After reading this article, I think I understand why I
see so many dead fish floating around my lake. Catch and Release can be
very tramatic on the fish. It allows a fisherman to continue to legally
fish after catching many fish, but may still be devastating on the
fisheries. If lake fishing using catch and release is tough on the fish, I
can't imagine what the survivor rate for a large billfish or a shark is.
They have to not only contend with the wound damage, but the lactic acid and
"decompression" problems. The article states " barbless hooks ... for
reasons still unclear, may not significantly reduce mortality, especially
when used with bait."


http://seagrant.gso.uri.edu/factshee...elease_fs.html

Why Do Hooked Fish Die?
Fish that are caught and released may die for several reasons, but the two
primary causes are stress and wounding. Stress results from the fish
fighting after being hooked. Internally, the physical exertion causes an
oxygen deficit in the tissues, forcing the muscles to function anaerobically
(without oxygen). This causes lactic acid to build up in the muscle tissue,
and then to diffuse into the blood. Lactic acid acts as an acid in the
blood, causing the pH of the blood to drop. Even slight changes in pH can
cause major disruptions of the metabolic processes, ultimately killing the
fish. If the fish is quickly released, its blood pH usually returns to
normal and the fish will be unaffected. Some fish, after a long tow, may
appear to live once released, but the imbalance in the blood chemistry may
kill them as late as three days after being caught. In most cases, the means
of preventing this type of mortality is to not keep the fish in action for a
long period of time, unless the intent is to keep it.

The other primary cause of mortality is wounding by the hook. Injuries
caused by hooks can range from very minor to lethal. The degree of injury is
dependent on the location of the hook wound. Higher mortalities will occur
in fish that are hooked in the gill or stomach areas, while lower
mortalities occur in fish that are hooked in the lip, jaw, or cheek areas.
Baited hooks are more likely to result in a gill or stomach hooking that
artificial lures. Treble hooks, for obvious reasons, will result in more
puncture wounds and subsequently higher mortalities. Barbless hooks
facilitate release and decrease "out-of-water" time, but for reasons yet
unclear, may not significantly reduce mortality, especially when used with
bait.

There are other kinds of physiological stress that can lead to higher
mortalities in released fish. Fish may not be able to adjust to changes in
pressure or to higher surface water temperatures. Also, when a fish is
handled or comes in contact with dry surfaces, such as landing nets or dry
hands, its mucous layers - commonly called slime layers - may be partially
removed, presenting an opportunity for bacteria or pathogens to invade the
skin.

Burping and Puncturing

When certain fish are brought up from depths greater than 40 feet too
quickly, their swim bladders, which normally control buoyancy, can
overinflate from rapid depressurization. Burping is a technique used on a
fish with an overinflated swim bladder. The fish is massaged in the belly
region in an attempt to release the excess air in the swim bladder.
Puncturing involves using a needle or ice pick to poke a hole in the fish's
exposed swim bladder. Both of these techniques are currently being advocated
in other parts of the country. However, if the procedure is not carried out
correctly, more damage than good may be done to the fish.

The success of burping depends on the species of fish. Some fish, such as
largemouth bass, perch, striped bass, cod, hake, and black sea bass, do not
have a connection from their gut to their swim bladder. If a fish's gut is
not connected to its swim bladder, then burping is impossible. Puncturing is
a very controversial technique. To date, there is no evidence that
puncturing will increase a fish's chance of survival.

The best advice for releasing fish with overinflated swim bladders is to let
them go as quickly as possible.

NEVER ATTEMPT TO BURP OR PUNCTURE A FISH WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT TO DO!

Catch-and-Release Guidelines

These guidelines provide basic information on the most beneficial
catch-and-release methods for most small- to medium-sized freshwater and
marine fish:

a.. If you plan to fish with artificial lures, such as plugs and spoons,
consider replacing treble hooks with single hooks. Single hooks are quicker
and easier to remove, especially when dealing with such predatory fish as
bluefish and northern pike. Consider pinching the barb on your hooks, since
this will make releasing the fish much easier.
b.. Plan your release strategy. Decide whether to keep or release any fish
prior to angling or at least before removing the fish from the water.
Familiarize yourself with any regulations in effect for the species
targeted, and gather any items that will facilitate handling and releasing
the fish.
c.. When a fish is hooked, use a steady, deliberate retrieval technique.
This can reduce the amount of stress a hooked fish undergoes when pulled up
from the depths too quickly, or when physically exhausted from an overly
slow retrieve.
d.. Once you have decided on releasing the fish, avoid netting or even
removing it from the water if possible. Use needle-nosed pliers to pry the
hook from the fish while it is still in the water. Fish that can be lifted
by the leader - the short length of line used to attach the end of the
fishing line to the lure or hook - can easily be released over the rail
using a "dehooker." These devices, whether homemade or purchased, are
gaining in popularity in the bluefish industry - to avoid the fish's nasty
teeth - and are useful for releasing a number of other species. A dehooker
may simply be a metal rod with a handle at one end and a small upturned hook
at the other end. If live bait or a lure is deeply embedded in the fish's
gullet, cut the leader close to the fish's mouth and let the fish keep the
hook. Studies have shown that fish can get rid of the hook up to 120 days
later.
e.. When landing the fish, it is important to minimize out-of-water time
and any fish contact with surrounding surfaces or objects.
a.. Avoid using landing nets if possible. If a landing net must be used,
one with a neoprene bag rather than natural twine should be used. Neoprene
removes less of the fish's mucous coat.

b.. Do not use a gaff!

a.. Keep hands moistened. This helps prevent removal of the fish's
natural protective mucous layer, and reduces the chance of subsequent
infections in the fish's skin.

b.. Minimize handling, particularly of the gills and soft underbelly.
Gently prevent the fish from battering itself on surrounding hard surfaces.
Place the fish on an old piece of foam cushion and place a wet rag or gloved
hand over the fish's eye. These two actions can do much to subdue even
unruly tuna and bluefish.

a.. Return the fish to the water headfirst. In most cases, it is best to
point the fish's head straight down and allow the fish to plunge down into
the water.


--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:53:33 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote:

All this explains why I have changed my fishing habits. For instance, a
buddy of mine loves fishing for muskies. But, they're not especially good to
eat. He just catches them (rarely, thankfully), photographs them, and puts
them back. I won't target certain fish unless I plan on eating them.
Obviously, you can't always choose what you're going to catch, but sometimes
you know the odds of catching certain kinds are higher. For instance, I
often fish in a certain stream where there's nothing but trout, and the
occasional baby pike that wanders up from a larger river. The stream's no
more than a foot or two deep, so the business about the swim bladder isn't
an issue. I use Mepps (or similar spinners), which come with extremely small
treble hooks, too easily swallowed by the fish. I've gradually been changing
them to much larger single hooks, which means the trout are lip hooked most
of the time. If I can see right away that the fish is too small to keep, I
can sometimes release them by just letting the line go slack, and they'll
shake themselves off. If I want two for dinner, I stop after I catch two.
The limit is 5. If I'm positive I'll have the time to freeze them properly,
I'll go after more.

Especially if I'm fishing from the boat, I always try and have a good book
along for the ride. Fishing's only half the reason I'm out there. I'd rather
read (or just stare at the clouds) than kill more fish than I need. This
makes perfect sense to responsible hunters, who don't shoot 23 deer until
they finally get one that's OK to take home.


Great minds.....etc.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:58:20 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 13:51:10 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
Using Circular Hooks is becoming popular as a way to improve the odds of
fish surviving when released.

With the spread of Shark Fishing Tournaments (as seen on a new reality TV
show) how do people improve the odds of a Shark surviving a catch and
release. I know some people just cut the leader, but that seems like it
impacts on the fish's ability to hunt and opens the fish to infection by
having a wound that will not heal.

Does the hook and leader rust or is the fish destined to carry around a
hook and leader for ever? Is it just me or do some aspects of fishing
seem pretty brutal and barbaric?


I was speaking with a NY DEC biologist about a month ago. He said he'd just
been to a seminar on the results of catch & release, where one discussion
focused on the results of catch & release. It may not be the panacea it was
made out to be. Fish apparently build up huge amounts of lactic acid in
their muscles as they're being caught, and they may not recover from the
experience. The fact that a fish swims away is no indication of future
survival, because in many cases, the fisherman is a moron who picks up the
fish around the mouth and gills, thereby damaging the gills. Removal of
lactic acid from the bloodstream requires efficient breathing, which can't
happen when the gills are damaged. And, even a minute out of the water for a
photograph is enough to cause trouble.

i am typing with one finger - i wish i could enter this discussion.

i will say this - shark tourneys are an abomination and should be
banned unless they are in-water tag and release similar to xtreme
billfishing tourneys.

as to catch/release, it is almost never done properly hook set and
retrieval is never done properly and while it sounds good c/r hurts
more fish than it saves. it is really the fault of the quote pros end
quote who can't properly handle a fish and dont care.

the operation went well, i am very tired and can't do much. i was
tired of sitting around tv sucks and i netflix is slower than
molasses. i have to do everything left handed.

maybe in a month i can return and beat everyone up. smile. even
typing this is exhausting.

later

tom

Glad to have you back, even if we can only read half of what you intend to say!

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:53:33 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

All this explains why I have changed my fishing habits. For instance, a
buddy of mine loves fishing for muskies. But, they're not especially good
to
eat. He just catches them (rarely, thankfully), photographs them, and puts
them back. I won't target certain fish unless I plan on eating them.
Obviously, you can't always choose what you're going to catch, but
sometimes
you know the odds of catching certain kinds are higher. For instance, I
often fish in a certain stream where there's nothing but trout, and the
occasional baby pike that wanders up from a larger river. The stream's no
more than a foot or two deep, so the business about the swim bladder isn't
an issue. I use Mepps (or similar spinners), which come with extremely
small
treble hooks, too easily swallowed by the fish. I've gradually been
changing
them to much larger single hooks, which means the trout are lip hooked
most
of the time. If I can see right away that the fish is too small to keep, I
can sometimes release them by just letting the line go slack, and they'll
shake themselves off. If I want two for dinner, I stop after I catch two.
The limit is 5. If I'm positive I'll have the time to freeze them
properly,
I'll go after more.

Especially if I'm fishing from the boat, I always try and have a good book
along for the ride. Fishing's only half the reason I'm out there. I'd
rather
read (or just stare at the clouds) than kill more fish than I need. This
makes perfect sense to responsible hunters, who don't shoot 23 deer until
they finally get one that's OK to take home.


Great minds.....etc.

And then, there's a fishing spot where, in summer, a bunch of inflato-blob
boats always raft. Very weedy, very bass-y and pike-ish, and the ladies like
to sun themselves topless. The morons all have boom boxes playing different
music, very loud, but I put up with it because of the scenery.

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:28:50 -0500, " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOTcom wrote:


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


i have to do everything left handed.

later

tom


Everything?

Hope you heal and feel better fast.

Eisboch

Hope you have a speedy recovery, and next time, keep your right hand out
of the garbage disposal while it is running.

Is that really what happened to him?????


Nope. Rotator cuff injury and operation.


What is a rotator cuff injury? I'd ask Tom, but it would hurt him too much to tell
me!

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...


What is a rotator cuff injury? I'd ask Tom, but it would hurt him too much
to tell
me!

--
John H.


Usually it's a very painful and disabling injury to the ball and socket
gadgets in your shoulder, often a tear or rip in the ligaments that hold
everything together. I suspect Tom's case may be complicated by other
issues as well.

I fell down a flight of stairs years ago and somehow screwed up the rotator
cuff in my right shoulder. I opted for no surgery, letting nature take it's
course and it took over a year before I could toss a baseball, even
underhand with the right arm.

Eisboch

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:58:20 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

maybe in a month i can return and beat everyone up. smile. even
typing this is exhausting.

later

tom

====================

Tom, here's hoping for a speedy recovery.

Wayne B

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 16:41:11 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .


What is a rotator cuff injury? I'd ask Tom, but it would hurt him too much
to tell
me!

--
John H.


Usually it's a very painful and disabling injury to the ball and socket
gadgets in your shoulder, often a tear or rip in the ligaments that hold
everything together. I suspect Tom's case may be complicated by other
issues as well.

I fell down a flight of stairs years ago and somehow screwed up the rotator
cuff in my right shoulder. I opted for no surgery, letting nature take it's
course and it took over a year before I could toss a baseball, even
underhand with the right arm.

Eisboch


Ouch! Thanks for the info. For some reason I was thinking 'wrist'. I guess, if I
wasn't so lazy, I could have looked it up, but thanks anyway.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

as to catch/release, it is almost never done properly hook set and
retrieval is never done properly and while it sounds good c/r hurts
more fish than it saves.

Proper "Catch and release hurts more fish than it saves?" Are you sure
you phrased that correctly? Afterall, the vast majority of fish
caught and released live to be fooled again.

You should know better than to say something as statistically outrageous
as that. Let's focus on red snapper, for instance. What percentage of
them are tagged or marked in some way, so they can be identified later?

Go on floridasportsman.com fishing forums and send an IM to a member
named C. undecimalis (Alexis Trotter) if you think I'm wrong. She lives
in St. Pete, works for FWC, and studies mortality rates of c/r snook.

Here's what her study showed:


General Catch and Release Mortality:
Estimated at 2.13%.

It's an interesting study, but it only applies to snook placed in a
holding tank after being caught. How tough is a snook?

They're like a bass...on steroids. But they're actually pretty fragile.
You're supposed to handle them with wet hands...and never hold up the really
big ones with a lip-gripper. It's better to support the belly if you're
holding them up for a picture.

They're also extremely sensitive to cooler water temps. Anything below 57 F
is bad news for snook.




My only frame of reference would be fresh water fish at the moment. If I
release a weakened smallmouth bass in a lake where there are no pike
around, it's got a better chance of survival than if there ARE pike, which
will spot a crippled fish and turn it into dinner very quickly. If I
release a weakened pike (and it's pretty hard to do that to a pike), the
fish has sharp enough fins & gill covers that not much will attack it while
it's getting its wits about it again.

You can't point to one study and say it's conclusive about all fish.

No, you're correct. In fact, the chance of survival for a snook depends
greatly upon where you catch him. If you drag him out of the mangroves, or
out from under a dock, he'll probably live...since a snook's natural
predators (dolphin and sharks) can't get to him there. If you pull him away
from a bridge or wreck that flipper is feeding around, he's toast when you
throw him back in.

Shark Fishing - Catch and Release?
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 16:41:11 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..


What is a rotator cuff injury? I'd ask Tom, but it would hurt him too
much
to tell
me!

--
John H.


Usually it's a very painful and disabling injury to the ball and socket
gadgets in your shoulder, often a tear or rip in the ligaments that hold
everything together. I suspect Tom's case may be complicated by other
issues as well.

I fell down a flight of stairs years ago and somehow screwed up the
rotator
cuff in my right shoulder. I opted for no surgery, letting nature take
it's
course and it took over a year before I could toss a baseball, even
underhand with the right arm.

Eisboch


Ouch! Thanks for the info. For some reason I was thinking 'wrist'. I
guess, if I
wasn't so lazy, I could have looked it up, but thanks anyway.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes


Here you go lazybones. ;-)

Eisboch's response was spot on.

http://www.jointhealing.com/pages/sh...tatorcuff.html