Those articles are the reasons I don't fish after catching my limit, or whatever I
plan to eat right away. Sometimes this ****es off the people fishing with me, who
think that as long as the bite is hot we should keep fishing. But, what the hell!

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:43:33 -0500, "Reggie Smithers"
wrote:

Harry's comments referenced my questions concerning removing the hook from
the fish (and the hook rusting away) and what some fisherman are doing to
minimize the damage to fish caused by the hook, but they did not reference
Doug's comment about Lactic Acid. I did a quick search on "Catch and
Release Lactic Acid" and found

http://seagrant.gso.uri.edu/factshee...elease_fs.html

See article below. After reading this article, I think I understand why I
see so many dead fish floating around my lake. Catch and Release can be
very tramatic on the fish. It allows a fisherman to continue to legally
fish after catching many fish, but may still be devastating on the
fisheries. If lake fishing using catch and release is tough on the fish, I
can't imagine what the survivor rate for a large billfish or a shark is.
They have to not only contend with the wound damage, but the lactic acid and
"decompression" problems. The article states " barbless hooks ... for
reasons still unclear, may not significantly reduce mortality, especially
when used with bait."


http://seagrant.gso.uri.edu/factshee...elease_fs.html

Why Do Hooked Fish Die?
Fish that are caught and released may die for several reasons, but the two
primary causes are stress and wounding. Stress results from the fish
fighting after being hooked. Internally, the physical exertion causes an
oxygen deficit in the tissues, forcing the muscles to function anaerobically
(without oxygen). This causes lactic acid to build up in the muscle tissue,
and then to diffuse into the blood. Lactic acid acts as an acid in the
blood, causing the pH of the blood to drop. Even slight changes in pH can
cause major disruptions of the metabolic processes, ultimately killing the
fish. If the fish is quickly released, its blood pH usually returns to
normal and the fish will be unaffected. Some fish, after a long tow, may
appear to live once released, but the imbalance in the blood chemistry may
kill them as late as three days after being caught. In most cases, the means
of preventing this type of mortality is to not keep the fish in action for a
long period of time, unless the intent is to keep it.

The other primary cause of mortality is wounding by the hook. Injuries
caused by hooks can range from very minor to lethal. The degree of injury is
dependent on the location of the hook wound. Higher mortalities will occur
in fish that are hooked in the gill or stomach areas, while lower
mortalities occur in fish that are hooked in the lip, jaw, or cheek areas.
Baited hooks are more likely to result in a gill or stomach hooking that
artificial lures. Treble hooks, for obvious reasons, will result in more
puncture wounds and subsequently higher mortalities. Barbless hooks
facilitate release and decrease "out-of-water" time, but for reasons yet
unclear, may not significantly reduce mortality, especially when used with
bait.

There are other kinds of physiological stress that can lead to higher
mortalities in released fish. Fish may not be able to adjust to changes in
pressure or to higher surface water temperatures. Also, when a fish is
handled or comes in contact with dry surfaces, such as landing nets or dry
hands, its mucous layers - commonly called slime layers - may be partially
removed, presenting an opportunity for bacteria or pathogens to invade the
skin.

Burping and Puncturing

When certain fish are brought up from depths greater than 40 feet too
quickly, their swim bladders, which normally control buoyancy, can
overinflate from rapid depressurization. Burping is a technique used on a
fish with an overinflated swim bladder. The fish is massaged in the belly
region in an attempt to release the excess air in the swim bladder.
Puncturing involves using a needle or ice pick to poke a hole in the fish's
exposed swim bladder. Both of these techniques are currently being advocated
in other parts of the country. However, if the procedure is not carried out
correctly, more damage than good may be done to the fish.

The success of burping depends on the species of fish. Some fish, such as
largemouth bass, perch, striped bass, cod, hake, and black sea bass, do not
have a connection from their gut to their swim bladder. If a fish's gut is
not connected to its swim bladder, then burping is impossible. Puncturing is
a very controversial technique. To date, there is no evidence that
puncturing will increase a fish's chance of survival.

The best advice for releasing fish with overinflated swim bladders is to let
them go as quickly as possible.

NEVER ATTEMPT TO BURP OR PUNCTURE A FISH WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT TO DO!

Catch-and-Release Guidelines

These guidelines provide basic information on the most beneficial
catch-and-release methods for most small- to medium-sized freshwater and
marine fish:

a.. If you plan to fish with artificial lures, such as plugs and spoons,
consider replacing treble hooks with single hooks. Single hooks are quicker
and easier to remove, especially when dealing with such predatory fish as
bluefish and northern pike. Consider pinching the barb on your hooks, since
this will make releasing the fish much easier.
b.. Plan your release strategy. Decide whether to keep or release any fish
prior to angling or at least before removing the fish from the water.
Familiarize yourself with any regulations in effect for the species
targeted, and gather any items that will facilitate handling and releasing
the fish.
c.. When a fish is hooked, use a steady, deliberate retrieval technique.
This can reduce the amount of stress a hooked fish undergoes when pulled up
from the depths too quickly, or when physically exhausted from an overly
slow retrieve.
d.. Once you have decided on releasing the fish, avoid netting or even
removing it from the water if possible. Use needle-nosed pliers to pry the
hook from the fish while it is still in the water. Fish that can be lifted
by the leader - the short length of line used to attach the end of the
fishing line to the lure or hook - can easily be released over the rail
using a "dehooker." These devices, whether homemade or purchased, are
gaining in popularity in the bluefish industry - to avoid the fish's nasty
teeth - and are useful for releasing a number of other species. A dehooker
may simply be a metal rod with a handle at one end and a small upturned hook
at the other end. If live bait or a lure is deeply embedded in the fish's
gullet, cut the leader close to the fish's mouth and let the fish keep the
hook. Studies have shown that fish can get rid of the hook up to 120 days
later.
e.. When landing the fish, it is important to minimize out-of-water time
and any fish contact with surrounding surfaces or objects.
a.. Avoid using landing nets if possible. If a landing net must be used,
one with a neoprene bag rather than natural twine should be used. Neoprene
removes less of the fish's mucous coat.

b.. Do not use a gaff!

a.. Keep hands moistened. This helps prevent removal of the fish's
natural protective mucous layer, and reduces the chance of subsequent
infections in the fish's skin.

b.. Minimize handling, particularly of the gills and soft underbelly.
Gently prevent the fish from battering itself on surrounding hard surfaces.
Place the fish on an old piece of foam cushion and place a wet rag or gloved
hand over the fish's eye. These two actions can do much to subdue even
unruly tuna and bluefish.

a.. Return the fish to the water headfirst. In most cases, it is best to
point the fish's head straight down and allow the fish to plunge down into
the water.


--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:53:33 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote:

All this explains why I have changed my fishing habits. For instance, a
buddy of mine loves fishing for muskies. But, they're not especially good to
eat. He just catches them (rarely, thankfully), photographs them, and puts
them back. I won't target certain fish unless I plan on eating them.
Obviously, you can't always choose what you're going to catch, but sometimes
you know the odds of catching certain kinds are higher. For instance, I
often fish in a certain stream where there's nothing but trout, and the
occasional baby pike that wanders up from a larger river. The stream's no
more than a foot or two deep, so the business about the swim bladder isn't
an issue. I use Mepps (or similar spinners), which come with extremely small
treble hooks, too easily swallowed by the fish. I've gradually been changing
them to much larger single hooks, which means the trout are lip hooked most
of the time. If I can see right away that the fish is too small to keep, I
can sometimes release them by just letting the line go slack, and they'll
shake themselves off. If I want two for dinner, I stop after I catch two.
The limit is 5. If I'm positive I'll have the time to freeze them properly,
I'll go after more.

Especially if I'm fishing from the boat, I always try and have a good book
along for the ride. Fishing's only half the reason I'm out there. I'd rather
read (or just stare at the clouds) than kill more fish than I need. This
makes perfect sense to responsible hunters, who don't shoot 23 deer until
they finally get one that's OK to take home.


Great minds.....etc.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:58:20 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 13:51:10 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
Using Circular Hooks is becoming popular as a way to improve the odds of
fish surviving when released.

With the spread of Shark Fishing Tournaments (as seen on a new reality TV
show) how do people improve the odds of a Shark surviving a catch and
release. I know some people just cut the leader, but that seems like it
impacts on the fish's ability to hunt and opens the fish to infection by
having a wound that will not heal.

Does the hook and leader rust or is the fish destined to carry around a
hook and leader for ever? Is it just me or do some aspects of fishing
seem pretty brutal and barbaric?


I was speaking with a NY DEC biologist about a month ago. He said he'd just
been to a seminar on the results of catch & release, where one discussion
focused on the results of catch & release. It may not be the panacea it was
made out to be. Fish apparently build up huge amounts of lactic acid in
their muscles as they're being caught, and they may not recover from the
experience. The fact that a fish swims away is no indication of future
survival, because in many cases, the fisherman is a moron who picks up the
fish around the mouth and gills, thereby damaging the gills. Removal of
lactic acid from the bloodstream requires efficient breathing, which can't
happen when the gills are damaged. And, even a minute out of the water for a
photograph is enough to cause trouble.

i am typing with one finger - i wish i could enter this discussion.

i will say this - shark tourneys are an abomination and should be
banned unless they are in-water tag and release similar to xtreme
billfishing tourneys.

as to catch/release, it is almost never done properly hook set and
retrieval is never done properly and while it sounds good c/r hurts
more fish than it saves. it is really the fault of the quote pros end
quote who can't properly handle a fish and dont care.

the operation went well, i am very tired and can't do much. i was
tired of sitting around tv sucks and i netflix is slower than
molasses. i have to do everything left handed.

maybe in a month i can return and beat everyone up. smile. even
typing this is exhausting.

later

tom

Glad to have you back, even if we can only read half of what you intend to say!

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:53:33 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

All this explains why I have changed my fishing habits. For instance, a
buddy of mine loves fishing for muskies. But, they're not especially good
to
eat. He just catches them (rarely, thankfully), photographs them, and puts
them back. I won't target certain fish unless I plan on eating them.
Obviously, you can't always choose what you're going to catch, but
sometimes
you know the odds of catching certain kinds are higher. For instance, I
often fish in a certain stream where there's nothing but trout, and the
occasional baby pike that wanders up from a larger river. The stream's no
more than a foot or two deep, so the business about the swim bladder isn't
an issue. I use Mepps (or similar spinners), which come with extremely
small
treble hooks, too easily swallowed by the fish. I've gradually been
changing
them to much larger single hooks, which means the trout are lip hooked
most
of the time. If I can see right away that the fish is too small to keep, I
can sometimes release them by just letting the line go slack, and they'll
shake themselves off. If I want two for dinner, I stop after I catch two.
The limit is 5. If I'm positive I'll have the time to freeze them
properly,
I'll go after more.

Especially if I'm fishing from the boat, I always try and have a good book
along for the ride. Fishing's only half the reason I'm out there. I'd
rather
read (or just stare at the clouds) than kill more fish than I need. This
makes perfect sense to responsible hunters, who don't shoot 23 deer until
they finally get one that's OK to take home.


Great minds.....etc.

And then, there's a fishing spot where, in summer, a bunch of inflato-blob
boats always raft. Very weedy, very bass-y and pike-ish, and the ladies like
to sun themselves topless. The morons all have boom boxes playing different
music, very loud, but I put up with it because of the scenery.

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:28:50 -0500, " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOTcom wrote:


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
news

i have to do everything left handed.

later

tom


Everything?

Hope you heal and feel better fast.

Eisboch

Hope you have a speedy recovery, and next time, keep your right hand out
of the garbage disposal while it is running.

Is that really what happened to him?????


Nope. Rotator cuff injury and operation.


What is a rotator cuff injury? I'd ask Tom, but it would hurt him too much to tell
me!

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"JohnH" wrote in message
...


What is a rotator cuff injury? I'd ask Tom, but it would hurt him too much
to tell
me!

--
John H.


Usually it's a very painful and disabling injury to the ball and socket
gadgets in your shoulder, often a tear or rip in the ligaments that hold
everything together. I suspect Tom's case may be complicated by other
issues as well.

I fell down a flight of stairs years ago and somehow screwed up the rotator
cuff in my right shoulder. I opted for no surgery, letting nature take it's
course and it took over a year before I could toss a baseball, even
underhand with the right arm.

Eisboch

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:58:20 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

maybe in a month i can return and beat everyone up. smile. even
typing this is exhausting.

later

tom

====================

Tom, here's hoping for a speedy recovery.

Wayne B

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 16:41:11 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .


What is a rotator cuff injury? I'd ask Tom, but it would hurt him too much
to tell
me!

--
John H.


Usually it's a very painful and disabling injury to the ball and socket
gadgets in your shoulder, often a tear or rip in the ligaments that hold
everything together. I suspect Tom's case may be complicated by other
issues as well.

I fell down a flight of stairs years ago and somehow screwed up the rotator
cuff in my right shoulder. I opted for no surgery, letting nature take it's
course and it took over a year before I could toss a baseball, even
underhand with the right arm.

Eisboch


Ouch! Thanks for the info. For some reason I was thinking 'wrist'. I guess, if I
wasn't so lazy, I could have looked it up, but thanks anyway.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
news

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
news
as to catch/release, it is almost never done properly hook set and
retrieval is never done properly and while it sounds good c/r hurts
more fish than it saves.

Proper "Catch and release hurts more fish than it saves?" Are you sure
you phrased that correctly? Afterall, the vast majority of fish
caught and released live to be fooled again.

You should know better than to say something as statistically outrageous
as that. Let's focus on red snapper, for instance. What percentage of
them are tagged or marked in some way, so they can be identified later?

Go on floridasportsman.com fishing forums and send an IM to a member
named C. undecimalis (Alexis Trotter) if you think I'm wrong. She lives
in St. Pete, works for FWC, and studies mortality rates of c/r snook.

Here's what her study showed:


General Catch and Release Mortality:
Estimated at 2.13%.

It's an interesting study, but it only applies to snook placed in a
holding tank after being caught. How tough is a snook?

They're like a bass...on steroids. But they're actually pretty fragile.
You're supposed to handle them with wet hands...and never hold up the really
big ones with a lip-gripper. It's better to support the belly if you're
holding them up for a picture.

They're also extremely sensitive to cooler water temps. Anything below 57 F
is bad news for snook.




My only frame of reference would be fresh water fish at the moment. If I
release a weakened smallmouth bass in a lake where there are no pike
around, it's got a better chance of survival than if there ARE pike, which
will spot a crippled fish and turn it into dinner very quickly. If I
release a weakened pike (and it's pretty hard to do that to a pike), the
fish has sharp enough fins & gill covers that not much will attack it while
it's getting its wits about it again.

You can't point to one study and say it's conclusive about all fish.

No, you're correct. In fact, the chance of survival for a snook depends
greatly upon where you catch him. If you drag him out of the mangroves, or
out from under a dock, he'll probably live...since a snook's natural
predators (dolphin and sharks) can't get to him there. If you pull him away
from a bridge or wreck that flipper is feeding around, he's toast when you
throw him back in.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 16:41:11 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..


What is a rotator cuff injury? I'd ask Tom, but it would hurt him too
much
to tell
me!

--
John H.


Usually it's a very painful and disabling injury to the ball and socket
gadgets in your shoulder, often a tear or rip in the ligaments that hold
everything together. I suspect Tom's case may be complicated by other
issues as well.

I fell down a flight of stairs years ago and somehow screwed up the
rotator
cuff in my right shoulder. I opted for no surgery, letting nature take
it's
course and it took over a year before I could toss a baseball, even
underhand with the right arm.

Eisboch


Ouch! Thanks for the info. For some reason I was thinking 'wrist'. I
guess, if I
wasn't so lazy, I could have looked it up, but thanks anyway.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes


Here you go lazybones. ;-)

Eisboch's response was spot on.

http://www.jointhealing.com/pages/sh...tatorcuff.html