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The Similarities and the Difference Between a Batteries-Isolator and a Batteries-Combiner
I am trying to understand the functionalities of a batteries-isolator
and a batteries-combiner. Based on reading about this subject in books and in this newsgroup, I have these understandings. I would like people to check if my understandings are correct or not: - They both prevent a weak battery from draining the strong battery when those two batteries are in parallel (such as when we switch the battery selector to BOTH). - They both have to do with charging by an alternator. - They both have nothing to do with from which battery that we get the power from (the battery selector controls this). This means regardless which device that I use I still need to remember to turn the battery selector to the house battery when I have stopped the motor; otherwise, I still may run down both the starting battery and the house battery. - The isolator costs a 0.7 volt loss of charge that significantly increases the charging time. That's unless we have something called a remote regulator that we normally don't use in an outboard motor. The combiner doesn't have this problem. - The isolator generates a lot of heat (coming from the loss of 0.7 volt), and need good ventilation around the isolator. The combiner doesn't have this problem. - The isolator is a simple device that doesn't tend to fail. The combiner may not disconnect fast enough under some circumstances (that I don't quite understand). - The isolator is cheaper than the combiner. Is my understanding correct? Thanks in advance. Jay Chan |
The Similarities and the Difference Between a Batteries-Isolator and a Batteries-Combiner
wrote in message oups.com... I am trying to understand the functionalities of a batteries-isolator and a batteries-combiner. Based on reading about this subject in books and in this newsgroup, I have these understandings. I would like people to check if my understandings are correct or not: - They both prevent a weak battery from draining the strong battery when those two batteries are in parallel (such as when we switch the battery selector to BOTH). - They both have to do with charging by an alternator. - They both have nothing to do with from which battery that we get the power from (the battery selector controls this). This means regardless which device that I use I still need to remember to turn the battery selector to the house battery when I have stopped the motor; otherwise, I still may run down both the starting battery and the house battery. - The isolator costs a 0.7 volt loss of charge that significantly increases the charging time. That's unless we have something called a remote regulator that we normally don't use in an outboard motor. The combiner doesn't have this problem. - The isolator generates a lot of heat (coming from the loss of 0.7 volt), and need good ventilation around the isolator. The combiner doesn't have this problem. - The isolator is a simple device that doesn't tend to fail. The combiner may not disconnect fast enough under some circumstances (that I don't quite understand). - The isolator is cheaper than the combiner. Is my understanding correct? Thanks in advance. Jay Chan Understanding not quite correct. With an Isolator, is pretty much as you state, but you just leave the battery switch on 1 or 2. Whichever you want for starting. Same with the combiner, but the combiner is a relay, that will stay engaged until the battery voltage on one of the batteries drops below about 13.5V To start from the battery being charged by the combiner, you still have to switch the dual battery switch. I run a combiner on my boat, and run the electronics off the #2 battery. I had to add an extra disconnect switch for the electronics, as they are wired direct to the #2 battery. The starter gets power from whichever battery the dual batterytch points to. Normally #1. |
The Similarities and the Difference Between a Batteries-Isolator and a Batteries-Combiner
wrote in message
oups.com... I am trying to understand the functionalities of a batteries-isolator and a batteries-combiner. Based on reading about this subject in books and in this newsgroup, I have these understandings. I would like people to check if my understandings are correct or not: - They both prevent a weak battery from draining the strong battery when those two batteries are in parallel (such as when we switch the battery selector to BOTH). - They both have to do with charging by an alternator. - They both have nothing to do with from which battery that we get the power from (the battery selector controls this). This means regardless which device that I use I still need to remember to turn the battery selector to the house battery when I have stopped the motor; otherwise, I still may run down both the starting battery and the house battery. - The isolator costs a 0.7 volt loss of charge that significantly increases the charging time. That's unless we have something called a remote regulator that we normally don't use in an outboard motor. The combiner doesn't have this problem. - The isolator generates a lot of heat (coming from the loss of 0.7 volt), and need good ventilation around the isolator. The combiner doesn't have this problem. - The isolator is a simple device that doesn't tend to fail. The combiner may not disconnect fast enough under some circumstances (that I don't quite understand). - The isolator is cheaper than the combiner. Is my understanding correct? Thanks in advance. Jay Chan Bill McKee wrote: Understanding not quite correct. With an Isolator, is pretty much as you state, but you just leave the battery switch on 1 or 2. Whichever you want for starting. Same with the combiner, but the combiner is a relay, that will stay engaged until the battery voltage on one of the batteries drops below about 13.5V To start from the battery being charged by the combiner, you still have to switch the dual battery switch. I run a combiner on my boat, and run the electronics off the #2 battery. I had to add an extra disconnect switch for the electronics, as they are wired direct to the #2 battery. The starter gets power from whichever battery the dual batterytch points to. Normally #1. Seem like my understanding of the way a combiner works is not quite correct. I am trying to understand what you are telling me. You said "Same with the combiner, but the combiner is a relay, that will stay engaged until the battery voltage on one of the batteries drops below about 13.5V." If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a combiner will get the power from both batteries if both are strong, and will not get the power from a weak battery if one if strong and another one is weak; I assume you are talking about when we have switched the battery selector to "BOTH". Thanks for pointing this out. You also said "To start from the battery being charged by the combiner, you still have to switch the dual battery switch." If I understand you correctly, you are saying that we can use the power from a weak battery that is being recharged by the combiner if we switch the battery selector to only use that battery. Thanks for pointing this out. I assume this is to force the electronic devices to use the house battery, and to keep the starting battery (that has been fully charged) from being used. You said "I had to add an extra disconnect switch for the electronics, as they are wired direct to the #2 battery." Why do you need to do this? If what my understanding in the last paragraph is correct, you can simpy turn the battery selector to the #2 battery, right? Why do you need another disconnect switch? You said "The starter gets power from whichever battery the dual batterytch points to. Normally #1." Seem like you are saying that the combiner will be smart enough to direct power to the starter from the strongest battery if we have switched the battery selector to BOTH. This is a good feature. Seem like I didn't quite understand the fact that a combiner not only direct the charging current from the alternator but also provides power to the loads on the boat. Thanks for the correction. I hope I understand this correctly this time around. Jay Chan |
The Similarities and the Difference Between a Batteries-Isolator and a Batteries-Combiner
wrote in message ups.com... wrote in message oups.com... I am trying to understand the functionalities of a batteries-isolator and a batteries-combiner. Based on reading about this subject in books and in this newsgroup, I have these understandings. I would like people to check if my understandings are correct or not: - They both prevent a weak battery from draining the strong battery when those two batteries are in parallel (such as when we switch the battery selector to BOTH). - They both have to do with charging by an alternator. - They both have nothing to do with from which battery that we get the power from (the battery selector controls this). This means regardless which device that I use I still need to remember to turn the battery selector to the house battery when I have stopped the motor; otherwise, I still may run down both the starting battery and the house battery. - The isolator costs a 0.7 volt loss of charge that significantly increases the charging time. That's unless we have something called a remote regulator that we normally don't use in an outboard motor. The combiner doesn't have this problem. - The isolator generates a lot of heat (coming from the loss of 0.7 volt), and need good ventilation around the isolator. The combiner doesn't have this problem. - The isolator is a simple device that doesn't tend to fail. The combiner may not disconnect fast enough under some circumstances (that I don't quite understand). - The isolator is cheaper than the combiner. Is my understanding correct? Thanks in advance. Jay Chan Bill McKee wrote: Understanding not quite correct. With an Isolator, is pretty much as you state, but you just leave the battery switch on 1 or 2. Whichever you want for starting. Same with the combiner, but the combiner is a relay, that will stay engaged until the battery voltage on one of the batteries drops below about 13.5V To start from the battery being charged by the combiner, you still have to switch the dual battery switch. I run a combiner on my boat, and run the electronics off the #2 battery. I had to add an extra disconnect switch for the electronics, as they are wired direct to the #2 battery. The starter gets power from whichever battery the dual batterytch points to. Normally #1. Seem like my understanding of the way a combiner works is not quite correct. I am trying to understand what you are telling me. You said "Same with the combiner, but the combiner is a relay, that will stay engaged until the battery voltage on one of the batteries drops below about 13.5V." If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a combiner will get the power from both batteries if both are strong, and will not get the power from a weak battery if one if strong and another one is weak; I assume you are talking about when we have switched the battery selector to "BOTH". Thanks for pointing this out. You also said "To start from the battery being charged by the combiner, you still have to switch the dual battery switch." If I understand you correctly, you are saying that we can use the power from a weak battery that is being recharged by the combiner if we switch the battery selector to only use that battery. Thanks for pointing this out. I assume this is to force the electronic devices to use the house battery, and to keep the starting battery (that has been fully charged) from being used. You said "I had to add an extra disconnect switch for the electronics, as they are wired direct to the #2 battery." Why do you need to do this? If what my understanding in the last paragraph is correct, you can simpy turn the battery selector to the #2 battery, right? Why do you need another disconnect switch? You said "The starter gets power from whichever battery the dual batterytch points to. Normally #1." Seem like you are saying that the combiner will be smart enough to direct power to the starter from the strongest battery if we have switched the battery selector to BOTH. This is a good feature. Seem like I didn't quite understand the fact that a combiner not only direct the charging current from the alternator but also provides power to the loads on the boat. Thanks for the correction. I hope I understand this correctly this time around. Jay Chan The combiner is a relay that connects the 2 bats together. It is a voltage sensing relay. If either battery is above 13.5 volts, then the relay will energize. connecting the 2 batteries together. The only time that the voltage is that high is when a battery is being charged, or shortly thereafter. I run all my eletronics on #2 battery. It is charged via the combiner when the main #1 battery that runs the starter / engine is being charged. Motor running. If #1 battery fails or is low, I can change the dual battery switch to #2 or both, to start the main motor. |
The Similarities and the Difference Between a Batteries-Isolator and a Batteries-Combiner
JR North wrote:
The 50 amp Combiner from West Marine is the cat's pajamas for smaller 2 battery boats. Mine works perfectly. The .7 V loss through an isolator's diodes is a major drop in charging voltage to the batteries. wrote: I am trying to understand the functionalities of a batteries-isolator and a batteries-combiner. Based on reading about this subject in books and in this newsgroup, I have these understandings. I would like people to check if my understandings are correct or not: - They both prevent a weak battery from draining the strong battery when those two batteries are in parallel (such as when we switch the battery selector to BOTH). - They both have to do with charging by an alternator. - They both have nothing to do with from which battery that we get the power from (the battery selector controls this). This means regardless which device that I use I still need to remember to turn the battery selector to the house battery when I have stopped the motor; otherwise, I still may run down both the starting battery and the house battery. - The isolator costs a 0.7 volt loss of charge that significantly increases the charging time. That's unless we have something called a remote regulator that we normally don't use in an outboard motor. The combiner doesn't have this problem. - The isolator generates a lot of heat (coming from the loss of 0.7 volt), and need good ventilation around the isolator. The combiner doesn't have this problem. - The isolator is a simple device that doesn't tend to fail. The combiner may not disconnect fast enough under some circumstances (that I don't quite understand). - The isolator is cheaper than the combiner. Is my understanding correct? Thanks in advance. Jay Chan Thanks for the suggestion of the West Marine combiner. Seem like it costs just a little bit over an isolator. This really makes sense for me to get a combiner instead of an isolator. Then, I can avoid the 0.7-volt loss of charge. Jay Chan |
The Similarities and the Difference Between a Batteries-Isolator and a Batteries-Combiner
Bill McKee wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... wrote in message oups.com... I am trying to understand the functionalities of a batteries-isolator and a batteries-combiner. Based on reading about this subject in books and in this newsgroup, I have these understandings. I would like people to check if my understandings are correct or not: - They both prevent a weak battery from draining the strong battery when those two batteries are in parallel (such as when we switch the battery selector to BOTH). - They both have to do with charging by an alternator. - They both have nothing to do with from which battery that we get the power from (the battery selector controls this). This means regardless which device that I use I still need to remember to turn the battery selector to the house battery when I have stopped the motor; otherwise, I still may run down both the starting battery and the house battery. - The isolator costs a 0.7 volt loss of charge that significantly increases the charging time. That's unless we have something called a remote regulator that we normally don't use in an outboard motor. The combiner doesn't have this problem. - The isolator generates a lot of heat (coming from the loss of 0.7 volt), and need good ventilation around the isolator. The combiner doesn't have this problem. - The isolator is a simple device that doesn't tend to fail. The combiner may not disconnect fast enough under some circumstances (that I don't quite understand). - The isolator is cheaper than the combiner. Is my understanding correct? Thanks in advance. Jay Chan Bill McKee wrote: Understanding not quite correct. With an Isolator, is pretty much as you state, but you just leave the battery switch on 1 or 2. Whichever you want for starting. Same with the combiner, but the combiner is a relay, that will stay engaged until the battery voltage on one of the batteries drops below about 13.5V To start from the battery being charged by the combiner, you still have to switch the dual battery switch. I run a combiner on my boat, and run the electronics off the #2 battery. I had to add an extra disconnect switch for the electronics, as they are wired direct to the #2 battery. The starter gets power from whichever battery the dual batterytch points to. Normally #1. Seem like my understanding of the way a combiner works is not quite correct. I am trying to understand what you are telling me. You said "Same with the combiner, but the combiner is a relay, that will stay engaged until the battery voltage on one of the batteries drops below about 13.5V." If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a combiner will get the power from both batteries if both are strong, and will not get the power from a weak battery if one if strong and another one is weak; I assume you are talking about when we have switched the battery selector to "BOTH". Thanks for pointing this out. You also said "To start from the battery being charged by the combiner, you still have to switch the dual battery switch." If I understand you correctly, you are saying that we can use the power from a weak battery that is being recharged by the combiner if we switch the battery selector to only use that battery. Thanks for pointing this out. I assume this is to force the electronic devices to use the house battery, and to keep the starting battery (that has been fully charged) from being used. You said "I had to add an extra disconnect switch for the electronics, as they are wired direct to the #2 battery." Why do you need to do this? If what my understanding in the last paragraph is correct, you can simpy turn the battery selector to the #2 battery, right? Why do you need another disconnect switch? You said "The starter gets power from whichever battery the dual batterytch points to. Normally #1." Seem like you are saying that the combiner will be smart enough to direct power to the starter from the strongest battery if we have switched the battery selector to BOTH. This is a good feature. Seem like I didn't quite understand the fact that a combiner not only direct the charging current from the alternator but also provides power to the loads on the boat. Thanks for the correction. I hope I understand this correctly this time around. Jay Chan The combiner is a relay that connects the 2 bats together. It is a voltage sensing relay. If either battery is above 13.5 volts, then the relay will energize. connecting the 2 batteries together. The only time that the voltage is that high is when a battery is being charged, or shortly thereafter. I run all my eletronics on #2 battery. It is charged via the combiner when the main #1 battery that runs the starter / engine is being charged. Motor running. If #1 battery fails or is low, I can change the dual battery switch to #2 or both, to start the main motor. OK. This means a combiner has everything to do with "charging" and has nothing to do with "using". And I can decide on which battery to use by using the battery-selector. I think I finally understand the difference between a combiner and an isolator. Thanks for your explanation. Jay Chan |
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