"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:29:19 -0500, John Gaquin wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message

...but an
American President defending torture? I didn't think I'd ever see the
day.

Pres Bush was not defending torture, as the press so gleefully loves to
portray. What he was defending was the use of distastefully coercive
interrogation techniques. Surely someone as smart as you can see the
distinction. [If you deny seeing the distinction, I would have to ask
who operates your computer for you.] Torture has been banned by US law
for some time. What the McCain bill does is take political correctness
to the highest level yet achieved.

You overlook this administration's history of handing people over to
countries that do torture. That would be an accessory before the fact.

If these "people" are citizens of the country they are being returned to
then what is the problem. These "people" are just being repatriated.

You also overlook the infamous Bybee memo that was the formal legal
opinion that guided this administration. It defined torture so narrowly
that only activities resulting in "death, organ failure or the permanent
impairment of a significant body function" qualify.

What is your definition of touture? Does raising your voice at someone
constitute torture?

By most Americans'
standards that is far more than "distastefully coercive interrogation
techniques."

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/d...e80102ltr.html

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:55:27 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote:


If these "people" are citizens of the country they are being returned to
then what is the problem. These "people" are just being repatriated.

That isn't the case, and you should know it by now. Do a search on
"extraordinary renditions", and then tell me these people were being
repatriated.

What is your definition of touture? Does raising your voice at someone
constitute torture?

Do they give lessons in denial when one becomes a Republican? I think
most Americans have a general concept of what constitutes torture.
Perhaps, you don't have a problem with it being done in your name, but it
shames me. Oh, and if you had read the following link, you would know
what this administration considered torture.

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/d...e80102ltr.html

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:43:57 -0500, thunder wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:55:27 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote:


If these "people" are citizens of the country they are being returned to
then what is the problem. These "people" are just being repatriated.

That isn't the case, and you should know it by now. Do a search on
"extraordinary renditions", and then tell me these people were being
repatriated.

What is your definition of touture? Does raising your voice at someone
constitute torture?

Do they give lessons in denial when one becomes a Republican? I think
most Americans have a general concept of what constitutes torture.
Perhaps, you don't have a problem with it being done in your name, but it
shames me. Oh, and if you had read the following link, you would know
what this administration considered torture.

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/d...e80102ltr.html

I did. I found many articles. I looked at several. All the ones I read referred to the same
individual, Maher Arar, who says he was tortured in Syria.

Are there other cases which ring with some truth, or are there just umpteen stories about this one
guy?
--
John H

**** May your Christmas be Spectacular!****
*****...and your New Year even Better!*****

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:59:15 -0500, JohnH wrote:


I did. I found many articles. I looked at several. All the ones I read
referred to the same individual, Maher Arar, who says he was tortured in
Syria.

Are there other cases which ring with some truth, or are there just
umpteen stories about this one guy?

Geez John, what no "Clinton did it, Clinton did it"? If you truly had
done a search on "extraordinary rendition", you would have seen that the
program was developed with the approval of the Clinton administration.
And of course, I'm sure that will "ring with some truth" to you. Bush
simply expanded the program, and didn't limit it to foreign soil.

As the program was covert, there is no way for us to know how many times
it has been used, but I have read estimates that it has been used over 100
times since 9/11. Egypt, Syria, and Jordan seem to be the leading
contenders for the torturer du jour.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050214fa_fact6

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 02:33:26 -0500, thunder wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:59:15 -0500, JohnH wrote:


I did. I found many articles. I looked at several. All the ones I read
referred to the same individual, Maher Arar, who says he was tortured in
Syria.

Are there other cases which ring with some truth, or are there just
umpteen stories about this one guy?

Geez John, what no "Clinton did it, Clinton did it"? If you truly had
done a search on "extraordinary rendition", you would have seen that the
program was developed with the approval of the Clinton administration.
And of course, I'm sure that will "ring with some truth" to you. Bush
simply expanded the program, and didn't limit it to foreign soil.

As the program was covert, there is no way for us to know how many times
it has been used, but I have read estimates that it has been used over 100
times since 9/11. Egypt, Syria, and Jordan seem to be the leading
contenders for the torturer du jour.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050214fa_fact6

Frankly, thunder, I just don't have a lot of sympathy for terrorists. I think Clinton had a good
idea, now that you mention it. Even this article uses Maher Arar as its starting point.
--
John H

**** May your Christmas be Spectacular!****
*****...and your New Year even Better!*****

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:55:27 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote:


If these "people" are citizens of the country they are being returned to
then what is the problem. These "people" are just being repatriated.

That isn't the case, and you should know it by now. Do a search on
"extraordinary renditions", and then tell me these people were being
repatriated.

Whatever anyone wants to call it, it is repatriation.

What is your definition of touture? Does raising your voice at someone
constitute torture?

Do they give lessons in denial when one becomes a Republican? I think
most Americans have a general concept of what constitutes torture.
Perhaps, you don't have a problem with it being done in your name, but it
shames me. Oh, and if you had read the following link, you would know
what this administration considered torture.

I am asking for your definition of torture? I don't want someone else's
definition I want your definition.

Is putting someone in handcuffs torture? Is locking them in a cell torture?
Just what is torture?

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:55:27 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote:


If these "people" are citizens of the country they are being returned to
then what is the problem. These "people" are just being repatriated.

That isn't the case, and you should know it by now. Do a search on
"extraordinary renditions", and then tell me these people were being
repatriated.

Whatever anyone wants to call it, it is repatriation.

What is your definition of touture? Does raising your voice at someone
constitute torture?

Do they give lessons in denial when one becomes a Republican? I think
most Americans have a general concept of what constitutes torture.
Perhaps, you don't have a problem with it being done in your name, but it
shames me. Oh, and if you had read the following link, you would know
what this administration considered torture.

I am asking for your definition of torture? I don't want someone else's
definition I want your definition.

Is putting someone in handcuffs torture? Is locking them in a cell
torture? Just what is torture?



Reading this thread.

Eisboch

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 18:13:35 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:55:27 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote:


If these "people" are citizens of the country they are being returned to
then what is the problem. These "people" are just being repatriated.

That isn't the case, and you should know it by now. Do a search on
"extraordinary renditions", and then tell me these people were being
repatriated.

Whatever anyone wants to call it, it is repatriation.

What is your definition of touture? Does raising your voice at someone
constitute torture?

Do they give lessons in denial when one becomes a Republican? I think
most Americans have a general concept of what constitutes torture.
Perhaps, you don't have a problem with it being done in your name, but it
shames me. Oh, and if you had read the following link, you would know
what this administration considered torture.

I am asking for your definition of torture? I don't want someone else's
definition I want your definition.

Is putting someone in handcuffs torture? Is locking them in a cell
torture? Just what is torture?



Reading this thread.

Eisboch


LOL!
--
John H

**** May your Christmas be Spectacular!****
*****...and your New Year even Better!*****

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:55:27 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote:


If these "people" are citizens of the country they are being returned
to
then what is the problem. These "people" are just being repatriated.

That isn't the case, and you should know it by now. Do a search on
"extraordinary renditions", and then tell me these people were being
repatriated.

Whatever anyone wants to call it, it is repatriation.

What is your definition of touture? Does raising your voice at
someone
constitute torture?

Do they give lessons in denial when one becomes a Republican? I think
most Americans have a general concept of what constitutes torture.
Perhaps, you don't have a problem with it being done in your name, but
it
shames me. Oh, and if you had read the following link, you would know
what this administration considered torture.

I am asking for your definition of torture? I don't want someone else's
definition I want your definition.

Is putting someone in handcuffs torture? Is locking them in a cell
torture? Just what is torture?



Reading this thread.

LMAO



Eisboch