Cats VS Cummins
 

Both are 2001 models with 100hrs on them

thanks again



"Scot" wrote in message
om...
Hello, I have a client looking a purchasing a Used Sea Ray 400DB. One has
Cat C3126TA and the other has Cummins 6TCA. besides HP. What are the
other feature benefits for both of these? Thank you in Advance

--
Scot
American Yacht - Ship - Sales - Management
www.americanyachtsonline.com
America's #1 Yacht Brokerage

Cats VS Cummins
 

Hi Noah,

I think he probably wants to learn more about this subject.

There are people here that have lots of knowledge on these two motors.

I am curious because I might want to buy something over 20' with a small
diesel some day?

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA
www.kiene.com

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:40:36 GMT, "Scot" wrote:

Hello, I have a client looking a purchasing a Used Sea Ray 400DB. One
has
Cat C3126TA and the other has Cummins 6TCA. besides HP. What are the
other feature benefits for both of these? Thank you in Advance

No offense intended, but aren't you the guy that's supposed to know?
When I win the lottery, I'm going to quiz my broker.
noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

Cats VS Cummins
 

Your right bb,

When I go into another fly shop I just ask if they can help me with some
info on their local fishing?

It is called"sand bagging" but it works better than acting like you know
everything already.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA
www.kiene.com

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:05:06 GMT, "Bill Kiene"
wrote:

Hi Noah,

I think he probably wants to learn more about this subject.

There are people here that have lots of knowledge on these two motors.

I am curious because I might want to buy something over 20' with a small
diesel some day?

I think the guy would have been better off if he had just left out the
"I have a client" part of his post. Sales people are suppose to know
all things about their products.

bb

Cats VS Cummins
 

I cannot believe I have to defend myself ! How is one to learn if you do
not ask questions? I wrote I have a client in order to get unbiased
opinions on both of these motors... user reviews or what-ever. I know all
of the manufacturers information on both of these and I can compare them for
my client. I called Cat and CAT said "ours is better" and vice versa with
Cummins. I have piloted both yachts and they both have bennifits...

but my client is very picky as he is spending a lot of money and asked me
for some more information.... so research i do... maybe this is the wrong
group.. I am new at news groups.. Just thought I would give it a shot.

Noah, you would be lucky to have an agent like me doing research... some
don't do anything but hand you the keys.

I want to sell this guy four or five boats in his lifetime including all of
his friends... so every thing i produce for him and all my clients is
quality.

Sorry to ask a stupid question...

Thanks to all who responded nicely.



"bb" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:05:06 GMT, "Bill Kiene"
wrote:

Hi Noah,

I think he probably wants to learn more about this subject.

There are people here that have lots of knowledge on these two motors.

I am curious because I might want to buy something over 20' with a small
diesel some day?

I think the guy would have been better off if he had just left out the
"I have a client" part of his post. Sales people are suppose to know
all things about their products.

bb

Cats VS Cummins
 

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:32:27 GMT, "Scot" wrote:

I cannot believe I have to defend myself !

You don't have to defend yourself to me.

My comment about leaving out the "I have a client" part has to do with
knowing a salesman is automatically a suspicious character with the
general public. This comes from years of experience and is certainly
no knock from me.

The part about a salesman should know everything about his product was
tongue in cheek. You get extra credit for trying to educate yourself
to help your client.

bb

Cats VS Cummins
 

In article ,
says...
Hello, I have a client looking a purchasing a Used Sea Ray 400DB. One has
Cat C3126TA and the other has Cummins 6TCA. besides HP. What are the
other feature benefits for both of these? Thank you in Advance

--
Scot
American Yacht - Ship - Sales - Management
www.americanyachtsonline.com
America's #1 Yacht Brokerage





I own a Grand Banks 46 trawler with 3126 engines at 420 hp. I have 1700
hours on each (purchased new) and have had not one second of trouble with
either engine over 4 years. Engines in the early series had some
problems and had in-field modifications made, so I would check if they
were manufactured before 1999 to make sure they were modified. Mine are
NM3858 and NM 3860 so if the numbers are higher than this, you're ok.

The nice things about these engines a

a. they are inline 6's which occupy much less space in a boat which is,
after all, long and skinny. As opposed to the 3208s which are v8s

b. they have replacable cylinder liners which make a major overhaul a
piece of cake

c. they burn no oil. I change the oil every 250 hours as per cat
recommendations and rarely need a quart inbetween


rgds

Cats VS Cummins
 

Good input thanks very much


"DSK" wrote in message
...
Scot wrote:

.... I called Cat and CAT said "ours is better" and vice versa with
Cummins. I have piloted both yachts and they both have bennifits...

FWIW although I have not had any experience with either CAT or Cummins
engines
in boats, I have experience working with engineers from both in the field.
CAT
doesn't actually hire engineers as far as I can determine, and their main
interest is in proving that whatever goes wrong must be somebody elses
fault. I
have worked with two different Cummins engineers who were not only
professional
& extremely knowledgable, but went out of their way to help with problems
NOT
associated directly with their engines... they just wanted the overall
package
to be a success because it would be associated with their engine.

Given a choice between the two I would not give CAT a 2nd thought. Just my
2
pence here.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Cats VS Cummins
 

Since the boats are used I would look at the upkeep and oil changes etc with
the engines. I would then look at engine hours. I would also ask the owner
at what speed and rpm's they cruise at. All trying to get an idea on how
hard the engines are used.

I would also look at the service centers in my area and who can I get to
work on the engines. Prices of parts may be of concern but probably not
since I would think them ~ equal.

Finally I would select a boat and recognizing that the engines are a
considerable investment I would pay a mechanic to check they out and have
him come on the check out cruise. Most surveyors don't do engines. I would
also add to the contract that anything he finds wrong the owner must fix,
reduce the price, or void the contract. In reality he must fix it since the
broker now knows that the boat needs engine work and must pass (probably
more like should) the info along to the next buyer.


"Scot" wrote in message
.. .
good input thank you.

"trawler_kid" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Hello, I have a client looking a purchasing a Used Sea Ray 400DB. One
has
Cat C3126TA and the other has Cummins 6TCA. besides HP. What are
the
other feature benefits for both of these? Thank you in Advance

--
Scot
American Yacht - Ship - Sales - Management
www.americanyachtsonline.com
America's #1 Yacht Brokerage





I own a Grand Banks 46 trawler with 3126 engines at 420 hp. I have 1700
hours on each (purchased new) and have had not one second of trouble
with
either engine over 4 years. Engines in the early series had some
problems and had in-field modifications made, so I would check if they
were manufactured before 1999 to make sure they were modified. Mine are
NM3858 and NM 3860 so if the numbers are higher than this, you're ok.

The nice things about these engines a

a. they are inline 6's which occupy much less space in a boat which is,
after all, long and skinny. As opposed to the 3208s which are v8s

b. they have replacable cylinder liners which make a major overhaul a
piece of cake

c. they burn no oil. I change the oil every 250 hours as per cat
recommendations and rarely need a quart inbetween


rgds

Cats VS Cummins
 

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:32:27 GMT, "Scot" wrote:

I cannot believe I have to defend myself ! How is one to learn if you do
not ask questions? I wrote I have a client in order to get unbiased
opinions on both of these motors... user reviews or what-ever. I know all
of the manufacturers information on both of these and I can compare them for
my client. I called Cat and CAT said "ours is better" and vice versa with
Cummins. I have piloted both yachts and they both have bennifits...

No need to defend yourself, Scot. I did preface my reply with "No
offense intended...", and, indeed, none was intended.

but my client is very picky as he is spending a lot of money and asked me
for some more information.... so research i do... maybe this is the wrong
group.. I am new at news groups.. Just thought I would give it a shot.

To be direct, I also wondered about the "I have a client..."
statement, and your "advertisement" in your signature. Not everyone
comes to this newsgroup with pure intentions. Want to buy a
cupholder?

Noah, you would be lucky to have an agent like me doing research... some
don't do anything but hand you the keys.

If you are working to give your client good service, I commend you for
it. Again, my reply was not intended to insult you. If I misjudged
your intent, I offer my sincere apologies.


I want to sell this guy four or five boats in his lifetime including all of
his friends... so every thing i produce for him and all my clients is
quality.

Sorry to ask a stupid question...

It wasn't a stupid question, just one that I would expect a yacht
broker to be familiar with. If I go a car dealer, and ask questions
about different engine options, I expect the salesperson to know the
answers. If he/she doesn't, I walk.

If you are relatively new to the job, and learning the trade, you may
want to drop the advertisement from your signature.

Thanks to all who responded nicely.

I didn't think I was "not nice", just direct.
No harm intended. Good luck with your sale.
noah


"bb" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:05:06 GMT, "Bill Kiene"
wrote:

Hi Noah,

I think he probably wants to learn more about this subject.

There are people here that have lots of knowledge on these two motors.

I am curious because I might want to buy something over 20' with a small
diesel some day?

I think the guy would have been better off if he had just left out the
"I have a client" part of his post. Sales people are suppose to know
all things about their products.

bb

Cats VS Cummins
 

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:05:06 GMT, "Bill Kiene"
wrote:

Hi Noah,

I think he probably wants to learn more about this subject.

There are people here that have lots of knowledge on these two motors.

I am curious because I might want to buy something over 20' with a small
diesel some day?

You may be right, Bill.

It just struck me as odd that "America's #1 Yacht Brokerage" didn't
know the answer to the question posed.

I apologised in another post.

A few times since I found rec.boats there have been heated debates
about "advertising" in the group. In most cases, the people in
question were regular contributors to the group, and the consensus
seemed to be that the people, like yourself, were welcome additions to
the group, and that the sig lines were harmless. I agree. Then,
there are those who are simply selling soap, and calling it "Boat
Soap".

Perhaps I feel a bit protective about rec.boats, and need to get some
air. :o) Want to buy a cupholder? Rod holders, fishing poles,
engine mounts? Boat insurance, a new dock, maybe a condo on the bay?
How about a nice set of knockers for your cuddy-cabin door? :o)

noah--- old, and grumpy, and tired of all the rain.
www.noah's-arc.com
Wholesalers of anything and everything that could, or should, be wet.
WORLD'S LARGEST SELECTION OF CRAP AND STUFF
Never pay RETAIL again!!!!
You want it, we got it!!
Dealers welcome.
Member FDIC, NASDAC, and AFLCIO

Cats VS Cummins
 

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:40:36 GMT, "Scot" wrote:

Hello, I have a client looking a purchasing a Used Sea Ray 400DB. One has
Cat C3126TA and the other has Cummins 6TCA. besides HP. What are the
other feature benefits for both of these? Thank you in Advance

Scot and the rest of you...

I'd like to point out that of 15 replies, none directly compare these
two engines. If it weren't for Google/Deja News, these threads would
be lost in just a week or two because the senseless bantering clogs
the news servers and so they throw away articles quickly. And it's
frustrating to search Usenet only to find a related topic but loaded
with sideline drivel.

A close friend repowered two boats - mine, a 35' woody displacement,
with a 6BT Cummins, and his, a 48' tiawan fiberglass trawler, with a
CAT C12.

The Cummins is a slightly lower rpm engine and may not like getting
the Sea Ray up on a plane. You need to closey compair the torque
curves for the rpm range and speed you expect to run given the prop
you plan to use. I know very little about the CAT, but my feeling is
that it's more refined and has more top end than the Cummins. I love
my 6BT, but I can't imagine it pushing a planing hull (your 6CT has an
even longer stroke at 135mm vs my 6BT at 120mm and the CAT at 127mm).

Cats VS Cummins
 

good input .. appreciate it.

scot

"Jaz" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:40:36 GMT, "Scot" wrote:

Hello, I have a client looking a purchasing a Used Sea Ray 400DB. One
has
Cat C3126TA and the other has Cummins 6TCA. besides HP. What are the
other feature benefits for both of these? Thank you in Advance

Scot and the rest of you...

I'd like to point out that of 15 replies, none directly compare these
two engines. If it weren't for Google/Deja News, these threads would
be lost in just a week or two because the senseless bantering clogs
the news servers and so they throw away articles quickly. And it's
frustrating to search Usenet only to find a related topic but loaded
with sideline drivel.

A close friend repowered two boats - mine, a 35' woody displacement,
with a 6BT Cummins, and his, a 48' tiawan fiberglass trawler, with a
CAT C12.

The Cummins is a slightly lower rpm engine and may not like getting
the Sea Ray up on a plane. You need to closey compair the torque
curves for the rpm range and speed you expect to run given the prop
you plan to use. I know very little about the CAT, but my feeling is
that it's more refined and has more top end than the Cummins. I love
my 6BT, but I can't imagine it pushing a planing hull (your 6CT has an
even longer stroke at 135mm vs my 6BT at 120mm and the CAT at 127mm).

Cats VS Cummins
 

Thanks Al. Nice Link.


wrote in message
...
Scot,

Checkout www.boatdiesel.com

there is a lot of info in there, problems, history, as well as
solutions. If you do a search i am sure you sill also have found
someone who at one time asked the same quesiton. (you may have to buy
a 1yr member ship to get to all the articals, but for $25 I think you
will get the most reliable info from that forum)

I seem to remember an article in one of the mags this summer (perhaps
passagemaker, or such?) comparing a CAT and Cummins. Cat came out on
top in terms of Performance and fuel efficiency, but I do not remember
which specific engines those were.

I own a 6BTA, and have found it very reliable. The 6CTA shares some
of those traits as well: Simple design, etc.

I think another real consideration (perhaps the most important as
inthe end I suspect you will find that both CAT and Cummins make
respectable engines) is the level of service and support at your
clients location. Might ask around about the local Cat and Cummins
service reps and see what the opinion of them is around there....

-al-



On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:40:36 GMT, "Scot" wrote:

Hello, I have a client looking a purchasing a Used Sea Ray 400DB. One
has
Cat C3126TA and the other has Cummins 6TCA. besides HP. What are the
other feature benefits for both of these? Thank you in Advance

--
Scot
American Yacht - Ship - Sales - Management
www.americanyachtsonline.com
America's #1 Yacht Brokerage