Master and Commander...
 

I thought it was a fantastic movie.

different from ye olde Aro Flynn swashbuckeling stuff, and far removed
from the comedy stuff like "Pirates of the Carribean"...sorry

It gave a visual piece of what it was like on the high seas of the time
and era.

I really felt sorry for the victim and crew of the ship who in the
storm chase had to cut the guy loose so the ship wouldn't be toppled,
leaving him to the vengance of the storm and sea.

Can't think of the guys name, but the Captain in real life was picked
up and charged with being a wife beater etc. so sad.

Tim

Master and Commander...
 

Do yourself a favor and read the books, when you do the movie, although
still enjoyable, seems shallow and contrived. I was more of a collection of
scenes from the books spliced together to arrive at a plot.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I thought it was a fantastic movie.



I did, too. And it was a fairly accurate depiction of life at sea in
those days. There were lots of injuries and deaths aboard ships of the
line.

Master and Commander...
 

Harry,
Are you sure their were many injuries and deaths on a war ship? Did the
infantry during that time have many injuries and deaths when they went into
battle?


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I thought it was a fantastic movie.



I did, too. And it was a fairly accurate depiction of life at sea in those
days. There were lots of injuries and deaths aboard ships of the line.

Master and Commander...
 

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message ...
Harry,
Are you sure their were many injuries and deaths on a war ship? Did the
infantry during that time have many injuries and deaths when they went
into
battle?
I took Harry's comment to mean that every day life aboard ships, in those
days, would be risky to life and limb.
Do your replies have to be so sarcastic? Why don't you grow up and act
your age?

Jim

Master and Commander...
 

Jim C,

I must have missed your rebuts when Harry makes sarcastic comments and off
color degrading comments to anyone who disagrees with his political
philosophy. Since my sarcastic comments are 90% less than those made by
Harry, and I never use profanity to make a point, I know you must have come
down very hard on poor Harry.


"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message ...
Harry,
Are you sure their were many injuries and deaths on a war ship? Did the
infantry during that time have many injuries and deaths when they went
into
battle?
I took Harry's comment to mean that every day life aboard ships, in those
days, would be risky to life and limb.
Do your replies have to be so sarcastic? Why don't you grow up and act
your age?

Jim

Master and Commander...
 

Harry,
You read every one of my posts and respond to at least 75% of them.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim Carter wrote:
"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message ...
Harry,
Are you sure their were many injuries and deaths on a war ship? Did
the
infantry during that time have many injuries and deaths when they went
into
battle?
I took Harry's comment to mean that every day life aboard ships, in those
days, would be risky to life and limb.
Do your replies have to be so sarcastic? Why don't you grow up and act
your age?

Jim



That's precisely what I meant. You just never knew when you stepped aboard
a warship or even commercial ship in the 19th Century whether you would
return and if you did whether you'd have all your limbs, and you didn't
even have to be in a battle to sustain a horrific shipboard injury. It was
very dangerous work.

Smithers is a lost cause. He's only here to see who he can hector, and
he's in a permanently ****ed-off mode because I never see about 90% of the
"barbs" he tosses at me.

Master and Commander...
 

Jim Carter wrote:


I took Harry's comment to mean that every day life aboard ships, in those
days, would be risky to life and limb.
Do your replies have to be so sarcastic? Why don't you grow up and act
your age?

Jim



Now that raises a very good question...just how old is Smithers?

Master and Commander...
 

Harry Krause wrote:
Jim Carter wrote:

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message ...

Harry,
Are you sure their were many injuries and deaths on a war ship? Did
the
infantry during that time have many injuries and deaths when they went

into

battle?

I took Harry's comment to mean that every day life aboard ships, in those
days, would be risky to life and limb.
Do your replies have to be so sarcastic? Why don't you grow up and act
your age?

Jim



That's precisely what I meant. You just never knew when you stepped
aboard a warship or even commercial ship in the 19th Century whether you
would return and if you did whether you'd have all your limbs, and you
didn't even have to be in a battle to sustain a horrific shipboard
injury. It was very dangerous work.

Smithers is a lost cause. He's only here to see who he can hector, and
he's in a permanently ****ed-off mode because I never see about 90% of
the "barbs" he tosses at me.

Here the British Navy had to operate 'Press Gangs' to re-man their ships
and replace sailors injured, sick or dead in the course of their duties.
Especially after the ungrateful rabble in Boston threw out the Brits, my
home port became the main naval base on this side of the Atlantic. Up to
70 British naval ships could be here at one time....and few people
clamored to join up.
http://www.angelfire.com/ns/bkeddy/halifaxcity.html

Master and Commander...
 

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message . ..
Jim C,

I must have missed your rebuts when Harry makes sarcastic comments and off
color degrading comments to anyone who disagrees with his political
philosophy. Since my sarcastic comments are 90% less than those made by
Harry, and I never use profanity to make a point, I know you must have
come
down very hard on poor Harry.
You must have majored in "sarcasm" in school. Grow up.
Jim

Master and Commander...
 

Dr. Dr. Smithers wrote:
Harry,
Are you sure their were many injuries and deaths on a war ship? Did the
infantry during that time have many injuries and deaths when they went into
battle?


Any modern army (post WWII) would run for home in an instant if it was
taking the percentage losses associated with naval warfare in the early
19th Century.

Infection and disease took a huge toll. The major hazards during an
engagement was flying splinters, schrapnel, and falling rigging- far
more likely to cause death than being stabbed with a cutlass or picked
off by a sharpshooter.

Losses were so astronomical and life aboard so generally crappy that
the British government had full time press gangs just rounding up
farmers, blacksmiths, shopkeepers, apprentices, and almost anybody
drunk enough to be easily subdued to fill the vacancies in the navy.
Merchant vessels could be hauled down (and stripped of all but a bare
bones crew) at the discretion of any naval captain who felt he needed
more men on the gundeck.

As you likely remember, one of the root causes of our War of 1812
(where the British burned Washington DC) was the continued pressing of
American seamen by the British navy.

Infantry losses were also very high, due primarily to the tactics
involved.
By the time of the American Civil War, weaponry had advanced
significantly but the tactics employed were still often 17-18th century
"skirmish line" and firing-from-formation techniques. Many historians
believe that the Civil War was the costliest war, in terms of a
percentage of combatants killed- but if the Napoleanic era was much
behind in this statistic it would have been primarliy due to the
shorter range and longer loading times of the weapons- the tactics were
very similar.

The naval tactics at the time, and the infantry tactics into the middle
of the 19th Century, reflected the feudal social values that prevailed
in Europe several hundred years ago.....(the serfs were expendable
property)....and served as the basis for western military tactics until
the latter part of the 19th Century.

Master and Commander...
 

I once read an interesting statistic concerning ships transporting
slaves through the "Middle Passage". I believe the book was "The Slave
Trade". It said that the death rate among the sailors on these ships
was about 15-20% whereas the death rate of the slaves being transported
was normally lower than that. The reason was that slaves were
valueable cargo whereas seamen were considered expendable.

Master and Commander...
 

On 2 Nov 2005 08:18:12 -0800, wrote:

I once read an interesting statistic concerning ships transporting
slaves through the "Middle Passage". I believe the book was "The Slave
Trade". It said that the death rate among the sailors on these ships
was about 15-20% whereas the death rate of the slaves being transported
was normally lower than that. The reason was that slaves were
valueable cargo whereas seamen were considered expendable.

too bad all the sailors didn't die. maybe they would have learned a
lesson.



---------------------------
to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com"
and enter 'wf3h' in the field

Master and Commander...
 

Bob wrote:
On 2 Nov 2005 08:18:12 -0800, wrote:

I once read an interesting statistic concerning ships transporting
slaves through the "Middle Passage". I believe the book was "The Slave
Trade". It said that the death rate among the sailors on these ships
was about 15-20% whereas the death rate of the slaves being transported
was normally lower than that. The reason was that slaves were
valueable cargo whereas seamen were considered expendable.

too bad all the sailors didn't die. maybe they would have learned a
lesson.


It would be pretty tough to lay more than a portion the moral blame for
the slave trade at the feet of the sailors working the ships. In some
cases, these ships recruited a "crew" among natives on the Ivory Coast,
and after sailing to the West Indies these so-called "crewmen" were
sold into slavery as well.

Blame for slave trade must be shared, IMO, by:

Arab and African slavers who raided farms and villages to gather
prisoners to sell into slavery. (Forget the opening scenes of "Roots"
where a bunch of overweight Europeans are running alongside hounds to
catch the natives on their own turf.)

European "factory" traders who established trading posts and holding
pens
on the E coast of Africa and traded cheap muskets, fabrics, trinkets,
and tiny amounts of currency for captives.

European governments which profited from the trade.

European churches and other social agencies which failed to adequately
condemn it.

Colonial planters who depended upon it.

Consumers of cheap goods and agricultural produce that resulted from a
slave economy.

While the US gets the majority of attention for slavery in the American
SE, slavery was also common in the north during the earliest years of
the Republic. Slavery was legal in most corners of the British Empire
until some time around 1830, (or so). We now quite often mistakenly
view it as a particularly American disgrace, almost 150 years after the
Emancipation, but it was a world-wide economic model- and problem.

Master and Commander...
 

JimC,
Are you telling me your comments about my "sarcasm" is really that you find
me too conservative? It must be because you seem to fawn over Harry's barbs
and profanity, which outnumber mine 10 to 1.

Grow up Jim.


"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message . ..
Jim C,

I must have missed your rebuts when Harry makes sarcastic comments and
off
color degrading comments to anyone who disagrees with his political
philosophy. Since my sarcastic comments are 90% less than those made by
Harry, and I never use profanity to make a point, I know you must have
come
down very hard on poor Harry.
You must have majored in "sarcasm" in school. Grow up.
Jim

Master and Commander...
 

JimC
ps - Anyone who doesn't know that sailors lived a tough life in the 18th and
19th century is so brain dead, I doubt they know how to turn on a computer.

The deaths from disease and lack of proper nutrition alone was sky high,
forget the lack of OSHA laws. ; )



"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message . ..
Jim C,

I must have missed your rebuts when Harry makes sarcastic comments and
off
color degrading comments to anyone who disagrees with his political
philosophy. Since my sarcastic comments are 90% less than those made by
Harry, and I never use profanity to make a point, I know you must have
come
down very hard on poor Harry.
You must have majored in "sarcasm" in school. Grow up.
Jim

Master and Commander...
 

Bob wrote:
On 2 Nov 2005 08:18:12 -0800, wrote:


I once read an interesting statistic concerning ships transporting
slaves through the "Middle Passage". I believe the book was "The Slave
Trade". It said that the death rate among the sailors on these ships
was about 15-20% whereas the death rate of the slaves being transported
was normally lower than that. The reason was that slaves were
valueable cargo whereas seamen were considered expendable.


too bad all the sailors didn't die. maybe they would have learned a
lesson.


What about the boat owners who were profiting from that enterprise?
The poor sapless sailors probably weren't much better off than the slaves.

Master and Commander...
 

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message ...
JimC,
Are you telling me your comments about my "sarcasm" is really that you
find
me too conservative? It must be because you seem to fawn over Harry's
barbs
and profanity, which outnumber mine 10 to 1.

Grow up Jim.

How would you ever think that I find you too conservative? You are very
liberal in your sarcastic remarks. I have not ever fawned over anyone's
remarks, least of all Harry's remarks. I find that his style of rebukes to
be entirely childish also. I wish the both of you would grow up and be
civilized in your comments and that you both would behave like gentlemen.

Jim

Master and Commander...
 

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message . ..
JimC
ps - Anyone who doesn't know that sailors lived a tough life in the 18th
and
19th century is so brain dead, I doubt they know how to turn on a
computer.

The deaths from disease and lack of proper nutrition alone was sky high,
forget the lack of OSHA laws. ; )

Dr. Smithers, to whom are you referring these remarks? Surely, not to me.
I have never questioned the tough life of early sailors.

Jim

Master and Commander...
 

Jim Carter wrote:

I wish the both of you would grow up and be civilized in your
comments and that you both would behave like gentlemen.

If you find a "gentleman" in *this* NG, that would be a newsflash.

--
Skipper

Master and Commander...
 

JimC,
To point out that the 17th 18th Century ships were a tough place to live, is
like saying an atomic bomb can be very destructive. I was highlighting the
foolishness of Harry's statement, the same as you would if I made a
completely obvious statement, and assumed it was words of wisdom.

PS - Did you know there are sarcastic people in Usenet?


"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message . ..
JimC
ps - Anyone who doesn't know that sailors lived a tough life in the 18th
and
19th century is so brain dead, I doubt they know how to turn on a
computer.

The deaths from disease and lack of proper nutrition alone was sky high,
forget the lack of OSHA laws. ; )

Dr. Smithers, to whom are you referring these remarks? Surely, not to
me.
I have never questioned the tough life of early sailors.

Jim

Master and Commander...
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote:
Jim Carter wrote:

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message ...

Harry,
Are you sure their were many injuries and deaths on a war ship? Did
the
infantry during that time have many injuries and deaths when they went

into

battle?

I took Harry's comment to mean that every day life aboard ships, in
those
days, would be risky to life and limb.
Do your replies have to be so sarcastic? Why don't you grow up and act
your age?

Jim



That's precisely what I meant. You just never knew when you stepped
aboard a warship or even commercial ship in the 19th Century whether you
would return and if you did whether you'd have all your limbs, and you
didn't even have to be in a battle to sustain a horrific shipboard
injury. It was very dangerous work.

Smithers is a lost cause. He's only here to see who he can hector, and
he's in a permanently ****ed-off mode because I never see about 90% of
the "barbs" he tosses at me.

Here the British Navy had to operate 'Press Gangs' to re-man their ships
and replace sailors injured, sick or dead in the course of their duties.
Especially after the ungrateful rabble in Boston threw out the Brits, my
home port became the main naval base on this side of the Atlantic. Up to
70 British naval ships could be here at one time....and few people
clamored to join up.
http://www.angelfire.com/ns/bkeddy/halifaxcity.html

They had to force people to man the ships as after a naval battle, most of
the gunnery crews were deaf, and could not hear orders. They had to be
replaced.

Master and Commander...
 

wrote in message
ups.com...

Bob wrote:
On 2 Nov 2005 08:18:12 -0800, wrote:

I once read an interesting statistic concerning ships transporting
slaves through the "Middle Passage". I believe the book was "The Slave
Trade". It said that the death rate among the sailors on these ships
was about 15-20% whereas the death rate of the slaves being transported
was normally lower than that. The reason was that slaves were
valueable cargo whereas seamen were considered expendable.

too bad all the sailors didn't die. maybe they would have learned a
lesson.


It would be pretty tough to lay more than a portion the moral blame for
the slave trade at the feet of the sailors working the ships. In some
cases, these ships recruited a "crew" among natives on the Ivory Coast,
and after sailing to the West Indies these so-called "crewmen" were
sold into slavery as well.

Blame for slave trade must be shared, IMO, by:

Arab and African slavers who raided farms and villages to gather
prisoners to sell into slavery. (Forget the opening scenes of "Roots"
where a bunch of overweight Europeans are running alongside hounds to
catch the natives on their own turf.)

European "factory" traders who established trading posts and holding
pens
on the E coast of Africa and traded cheap muskets, fabrics, trinkets,
and tiny amounts of currency for captives.

European governments which profited from the trade.

European churches and other social agencies which failed to adequately
condemn it.

Colonial planters who depended upon it.

Consumers of cheap goods and agricultural produce that resulted from a
slave economy.

While the US gets the majority of attention for slavery in the American
SE, slavery was also common in the north during the earliest years of
the Republic. Slavery was legal in most corners of the British Empire
until some time around 1830, (or so). We now quite often mistakenly
view it as a particularly American disgrace, almost 150 years after the
Emancipation, but it was a world-wide economic model- and problem.


And the only reason we did not ban slavery when, actually before Britain,
was the fact Whitney invented the cotton gin and cotton plantations expanded
greatly. Up until that time, was becoming an uneconomical model.

Master and Commander...
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...

wrote in message
ups.com...

Bob wrote:
On 2 Nov 2005 08:18:12 -0800, wrote:

I once read an interesting statistic concerning ships transporting
slaves through the "Middle Passage". I believe the book was "The
Slave
Trade". It said that the death rate among the sailors on these ships
was about 15-20% whereas the death rate of the slaves being
transported
was normally lower than that. The reason was that slaves were
valueable cargo whereas seamen were considered expendable.

too bad all the sailors didn't die. maybe they would have learned a
lesson.


It would be pretty tough to lay more than a portion the moral blame for
the slave trade at the feet of the sailors working the ships. In some
cases, these ships recruited a "crew" among natives on the Ivory Coast,
and after sailing to the West Indies these so-called "crewmen" were
sold into slavery as well.

Blame for slave trade must be shared, IMO, by:

Arab and African slavers who raided farms and villages to gather
prisoners to sell into slavery. (Forget the opening scenes of "Roots"
where a bunch of overweight Europeans are running alongside hounds to
catch the natives on their own turf.)

European "factory" traders who established trading posts and holding
pens
on the E coast of Africa and traded cheap muskets, fabrics, trinkets,
and tiny amounts of currency for captives.

European governments which profited from the trade.

European churches and other social agencies which failed to adequately
condemn it.

Colonial planters who depended upon it.

Consumers of cheap goods and agricultural produce that resulted from a
slave economy.

While the US gets the majority of attention for slavery in the American
SE, slavery was also common in the north during the earliest years of
the Republic. Slavery was legal in most corners of the British Empire
until some time around 1830, (or so). We now quite often mistakenly
view it as a particularly American disgrace, almost 150 years after the
Emancipation, but it was a world-wide economic model- and problem.


And the only reason we did not ban slavery when, actually before Britain,
was the fact Whitney invented the cotton gin and cotton plantations
expanded
greatly. Up until that time, was becoming an uneconomical model.

Slavery is still a problem in parts of Africa

Master and Commander...
 

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message ...
JimC,
To point out that the 17th 18th Century ships were a tough place to live,
is
like saying an atomic bomb can be very destructive. I was highlighting
the
foolishness of Harry's statement, the same as you would if I made a
completely obvious statement, and assumed it was words of wisdom.

PS - Did you know there are sarcastic people in Usenet?
Dr. Smithers, I do believe you are assuming that all people would know, on
this rec. boating newsgroup, everything about early shipping on the high
seas. A lot of people here do not even comprehend today's dangers that are
involved in taking a sailing vessel off shore. Would you agree? IMO
This is not the same as your comparison statement of atomic energy released
via a bomb.

I was thinking that you, as a Dr., should know how to act like an adult
and, yes, I do know that you are using Usenet and you are a user of childish
sarcasm.

Jim

Master and Commander...Battle of Trafalgar
 

I just check a recent National Geographic article about the Battle of
Trafalgar, of the sixty ships in the battle there were a total of 8000
sailors who lost their lives

Dr. Dr. Smithers wrote:

JimC
ps - Anyone who doesn't know that sailors lived a tough life in the 18th and
19th century is so brain dead, I doubt they know how to turn on a computer.

The deaths from disease and lack of proper nutrition alone was sky high,
forget the lack of OSHA laws. ; )



"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message . ..

Jim C,

I must have missed your rebuts when Harry makes sarcastic comments and
off
color degrading comments to anyone who disagrees with his political
philosophy. Since my sarcastic comments are 90% less than those made by
Harry, and I never use profanity to make a point, I know you must have

come

down very hard on poor Harry.

You must have majored in "sarcasm" in school. Grow up.
Jim

Master and Commander...Battle of Trafalgar
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Smithers' agenda in this newsgroup has nothing to do with boats, boating,
discussion of boating subjects, et cetera. That should be obvious to just
about anyone.

Harry,
You have said a number of times that the only reason you come into rec.boats
is to insult the Reich wing trash. Why do you insist in "Playing" everyone
in rec.boats?

Master and Commander...
 

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:28:25 -0500, P Fritz wrote:


Slavery is still a problem in parts of Africa

Unfortunately, you don't have to go to Africa to find the problem.

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/ar..._ccc=6&cid=842

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4534393.stm

In point of fact, human trafficking has surpassed drugs. It is now the
number one financial source of organized crime.