Americans suffering in South Florida
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:43:13 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


Hundreds of thousands of them.
Might as well be living in the third or fourth world.

The only real lines I saw here was a couple days before the storm when
the TV stations started a panic buy on gasoline. We had a day of 70s
style gas lines, empty tanks and bags on the pumps.The next day, when
everyone had filled every container they had, the stations returned to
normal. Gas prices actually dropped after that.
In south Lee County we were in the swath of the storm but we didn't
have many stories of shortages, long lines or anything except where
they were giving away free stuff. You might have to wait an hour for a
free bag of ice at the distribution center but Publix had it for the
regular price, even in the stores running on generators.
We really only had 2 days (one the day of the storm) when things like
ice were hard to find and they TOLD US to have 3 days worth. I never
ran out of anything ... but I actually pay attention to the warnings.

BTW a tip;
A few days before the storm you should pack your freezer and fridge
with half liter bottles of water, every cranny.
It is a good thermal mass to hold the temperature and when they thaw
out they are still drinking water.
I didn't even lose my popcicles in a 36 hour outage. The only thing I
was nervous about was the shrimp so we had a neighborhood
feast. Other neighbors brought burgers, steaks and whatever they were
worried about losing. The cooked leftovers will keep better. It also
gave us an opportunity to pitch in and help clean the place up.

The BEST part about the power or cable being out ... the neighbors get
out and chat in the street.

Thank you for setting things straight. Harry thought that I was making it
up.

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

Harry recommends the Feds take over responsibility for the power companies
and the telephone companies.
That way we will have power and telephone service the day after a major
hurricane barrels over the state of Fl.



"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:43:13 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


Hundreds of thousands of them.
Might as well be living in the third or fourth world.

The only real lines I saw here was a couple days before the storm when
the TV stations started a panic buy on gasoline. We had a day of 70s
style gas lines, empty tanks and bags on the pumps.The next day, when
everyone had filled every container they had, the stations returned to
normal. Gas prices actually dropped after that.
In south Lee County we were in the swath of the storm but we didn't
have many stories of shortages, long lines or anything except where
they were giving away free stuff. You might have to wait an hour for a
free bag of ice at the distribution center but Publix had it for the
regular price, even in the stores running on generators.
We really only had 2 days (one the day of the storm) when things like
ice were hard to find and they TOLD US to have 3 days worth. I never
ran out of anything ... but I actually pay attention to the warnings.

BTW a tip;
A few days before the storm you should pack your freezer and fridge
with half liter bottles of water, every cranny.
It is a good thermal mass to hold the temperature and when they thaw
out they are still drinking water.
I didn't even lose my popcicles in a 36 hour outage. The only thing I
was nervous about was the shrimp so we had a neighborhood
feast. Other neighbors brought burgers, steaks and whatever they were
worried about losing. The cooked leftovers will keep better. It also
gave us an opportunity to pitch in and help clean the place up.

The BEST part about the power or cable being out ... the neighbors get
out and chat in the street.

Thank you for setting things straight. Harry thought that I was making it
up.

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

"Smith Smithers" wrote in message
...
Harry recommends the Feds take over responsibility for the power companies
and the telephone companies.
That way we will have power and telephone service the day after a major
hurricane barrels over the state of Fl.

Yep. Because all they'd have to do in Harry's model is restore power to the
commune.

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Smith Smithers" wrote in message
...
Harry recommends the Feds take over responsibility for the power
companies and the telephone companies.
That way we will have power and telephone service the day after a major
hurricane barrels over the state of Fl.

Yep. Because all they'd have to do in Harry's model is restore power to
the commune.



It must be wonderful to go through life as simple-minded righties, as you
and toilet-bowl-turd Smithers seem intent upon, eh?

It is not rocket science to have on hand for emergency storage of consumer
food and medications refrigerator trucks with compartments for individual
families, nor is it, though it does involve, having vans circulating in
neighborhods with satlink phones that survivors can use to call relatives,
insurance companies, and whomever. Both of these kinds of "vehicles" could
be owned by the people of the USA and stored and maintained at military
bases for use in case of natural disasters that knock out power and phones
for more than a couple of days.

So which coast would you have stationed the trucks on? The East or West
coast of Florida?

Many of the trucks that were heading here needed to be diverted to the East
coast, and the middle of the state (Clewiston, etc). Of course, although we
were hit harder than the east coast, we prepared better for it.



On a slightly related basis, I was never in favor of deregulating public
utilities, and I think all large-scale energy providing companies (big oil
and gas, pipelines, et cetera) should also be regulated for the public
good.

I can't say that I disagree with you. When there is a sole supplier of
services (electric, gas pipelines, local phone, cable, etc) in a given
geographical area (and no chance for competition), it ought to be regulated
to the max by the government.

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:33:10 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Thank you for setting things straight. Harry thought that I was making it
up.

I was always suspicious of the coverage of Katrina. When Jon Stewart
showed the clip from the network folks standing in knee deep water and
then showed the same shot from 50 feet farther back it confirmed my
suspicion. They were taking turns standing in a puddle, surrounded by
dry ground, boom trucks and guys in suits.

There was a lot of the same hype here. News crews drove around looking
for some destruction to put on TV. The fact is, new construction homes
did very well in the Cat 3 landfall. The east coast took such a hit
because they haven't had a storm there in years and a lot of ****
housing has been waiting for a puff of wind to blow it over. FPL also
had plenty of rotten poles that should have been replaced years ago.
My buddy lives across the street from the trailer in Tahiti that "was
hit by a tornado". Bull****. That trailer was a termite infested piece
of crap. The units on both sides (about 4 feet away) did just fine!
Some selective "tornado" huh?
It really looks like most trailer damage is caused by the cabanas and
car ports they hang on them in the first place. The owners and their
handy man hang a 200 square foot sail on the side of the trailer. When
the wind catches it, the car port goes for a ride and takes the side
of the trailer with it.

BTW on your screen cage. It is the cables failing that makes the cage
come apart. If you strengthen the cable anchors and perhaps run a few
extras your cage will last in a storm. The problem is they have bridge
engineers designing screen cages.

I'm not sure it's even real engineers doing the design. Probably more like
pseudo-engineer CAD guys like basskisser sketching them out on a computer
screen.


They should be using guys who design
biplanes. That is a better description of the loads. The aluminum is
stronger than it has to be. I have never seen a failed cage that
didn't have ripped out cable anchors. (I looked at dozens of them
after Charley) Once the cables go you lose the triangles that give it
rigidity. It starts to "rack". That is what causes the joints to fail.

That is precisely why mine almost failed. When I got home to assess the
damage, the cage was leaning about 10 degrees to the east. I got a new
cable, and a turnbuckle. I tightened the turnbuckle until the cage was
upright, and the cage looked fine once again.

I plan on putting a second cable up in each direction to serve as a
redundancy should the first cable fail next time.


I was lucky this time.

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Smith Smithers" wrote in message
...
Harry recommends the Feds take over responsibility for the power
companies and the telephone companies.
That way we will have power and telephone service the day after a
major hurricane barrels over the state of Fl.
Yep. Because all they'd have to do in Harry's model is restore power
to the commune.


It must be wonderful to go through life as simple-minded righties, as
you and toilet-bowl-turd Smithers seem intent upon, eh?

It is not rocket science to have on hand for emergency storage of
consumer food and medications refrigerator trucks with compartments for
individual families, nor is it, though it does involve, having vans
circulating in neighborhods with satlink phones that survivors can use
to call relatives, insurance companies, and whomever. Both of these
kinds of "vehicles" could be owned by the people of the USA and stored
and maintained at military bases for use in case of natural disasters
that knock out power and phones for more than a couple of days.

So which coast would you have stationed the trucks on? The East or West
coast of Florida?

Many of the trucks that were heading here needed to be diverted to the
East coast, and the middle of the state (Clewiston, etc). Of course,
although we were hit harder than the east coast, we prepared better for
it.


On a slightly related basis, I was never in favor of deregulating public
utilities, and I think all large-scale energy providing companies (big
oil and gas, pipelines, et cetera) should also be regulated for the
public good.

I can't say that I disagree with you. When there is a sole supplier of
services (electric, gas pipelines, local phone, cable, etc) in a given
geographical area (and no chance for competition), it ought to be
regulated to the max by the government.






We;re blowing $2 billion a week on Iraq. A brand new reefer truck with a
horse will run about $120,000. If we weren't blowing our wad on Iraq,
we'd have enough money to help almost every area of the nation set up
and maintain proper disaster relief hardware and systems.



We were not in Iraq during the Clinton years. Why didn't he take care of it
then?

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

" *JimH*" wrote in message
. ..

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Smith Smithers" wrote in message
...
Harry recommends the Feds take over responsibility for the power
companies and the telephone companies.
That way we will have power and telephone service the day after a
major hurricane barrels over the state of Fl.
Yep. Because all they'd have to do in Harry's model is restore power
to the commune.


It must be wonderful to go through life as simple-minded righties, as
you and toilet-bowl-turd Smithers seem intent upon, eh?

It is not rocket science to have on hand for emergency storage of
consumer food and medications refrigerator trucks with compartments for
individual families, nor is it, though it does involve, having vans
circulating in neighborhods with satlink phones that survivors can use
to call relatives, insurance companies, and whomever. Both of these
kinds of "vehicles" could be owned by the people of the USA and stored
and maintained at military bases for use in case of natural disasters
that knock out power and phones for more than a couple of days.

So which coast would you have stationed the trucks on? The East or West
coast of Florida?

Many of the trucks that were heading here needed to be diverted to the
East coast, and the middle of the state (Clewiston, etc). Of course,
although we were hit harder than the east coast, we prepared better for
it.


On a slightly related basis, I was never in favor of deregulating
public utilities, and I think all large-scale energy providing
companies (big oil and gas, pipelines, et cetera) should also be
regulated for the public good.

I can't say that I disagree with you. When there is a sole supplier of
services (electric, gas pipelines, local phone, cable, etc) in a given
geographical area (and no chance for competition), it ought to be
regulated to the max by the government.






We;re blowing $2 billion a week on Iraq. A brand new reefer truck with a
horse will run about $120,000. If we weren't blowing our wad on Iraq,
we'd have enough money to help almost every area of the nation set up
and maintain proper disaster relief hardware and systems.



We were not in Iraq during the Clinton years. Why didn't he take care of
it then?

Because he was signing a Republican-Congress-enacted balanced budget.

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

Harry,
How many trucks would you have to have to handle a hurricane that barreled
thru FL?

One per block?


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Smith Smithers" wrote in message
...
Harry recommends the Feds take over responsibility for the power
companies and the telephone companies.
That way we will have power and telephone service the day after a major
hurricane barrels over the state of Fl.

Yep. Because all they'd have to do in Harry's model is restore power to
the commune.



It must be wonderful to go through life as simple-minded righties, as you
and toilet-bowl-turd Smithers seem intent upon, eh?

It is not rocket science to have on hand for emergency storage of consumer
food and medications refrigerator trucks with compartments for individual
families, nor is it, though it does involve, having vans circulating in
neighborhods with satlink phones that survivors can use to call relatives,
insurance companies, and whomever. Both of these kinds of "vehicles" could
be owned by the people of the USA and stored and maintained at military
bases for use in case of natural disasters that knock out power and phones
for more than a couple of days.

On a slightly related basis, I was never in favor of deregulating public
utilities, and I think all large-scale energy providing companies (big oil
and gas, pipelines, et cetera) should also be regulated for the public
good.

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

"Smith Smithers" wrote in message
...
Harry,
How many trucks would you have to have to handle a hurricane that barreled
thru FL?

One per block?

Harry would have us all living in a commune. The trucks wouldn't have to
disperse themselves very much.

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

NOYB,
It would make life much easier if everyone else lived in a commune. Can I
move into your water front property when we shift you and your family over
to the commune?


"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Smith Smithers" wrote in message
...
Harry,
How many trucks would you have to have to handle a hurricane that
barreled thru FL?

One per block?

Harry would have us all living in a commune. The trucks wouldn't have to
disperse themselves very much.

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

NOYB wrote:

So which coast would you have stationed the trucks on? The East or West
coast of Florida?

Many of the trucks that were heading here needed to be diverted to the East
coast, and the middle of the state (Clewiston, etc). Of course, although we
were hit harder than the east coast, we prepared better for it.



You were better prepared for it? I guess we could have cut down every
tree, removed every pool enclosure, fence, mailbox, traffic sign,
billboard...

Dan

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

We;re blowing $2 billion a week on Iraq. A brand new reefer truck with a
horse will run about $120,000. If we weren't blowing our wad on Iraq,
we'd have enough money to help almost every area of the nation set up
and maintain proper disaster relief hardware and systems.

Aw now, Harry. If we were'nt "Blowing our wad" In Iraq, we'd surely be
"Blowing our wad" somewhere else.

The US Governement is alergic to saving money! Always has
been...always will be.

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
nk.net...
NOYB wrote:

So which coast would you have stationed the trucks on? The East or West
coast of Florida?

Many of the trucks that were heading here needed to be diverted to the
East coast, and the middle of the state (Clewiston, etc). Of course,
although we were hit harder than the east coast, we prepared better for
it.



You were better prepared for it? I guess we could have cut down every
tree, removed every pool enclosure, fence, mailbox, traffic sign,
billboard...


We had heavy machinery clearing the roads the same day that Wilma hit.

And our long lines at the gas station were on Wednesday, Thursday, and
Friday *before* Wilma hit...when people smartly prepared by fueling up in
advance.

We also stocked up on water and food, so we didn't have the ridiculously
long lines at the "free" handout stations just one day after the storm.

That's what I meant by "better prepared".

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

wrote:

I am not sure why it is the government's job to wage a war it got into
because the President of the United States lied.

Do you believe that if *you* repeat a lie enough times, it will make it
true?

The President didn't lie about anything. That little grandstanding episode
yesterday by the Dems was laughable. The report from "Phase II" of the
investigation into the build-up to the Iraq war was due to come out in the
next couple of weeks anyhow. So I'm not quite sure what the Dems were
asking for.

Regardless, here's what "Phase 1" of the committee investigation revealed:


Conclusion 12. Until October 2002 when the Intelligence Community obtained
the forged foreign language documents2 on the Iraq-Niger uranium deal, it
was reasonable for analysts to assess that Iraq may have been seeking
uranium from Africa based on Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reporting and
other available intelligence.

Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassador's trip to Niger,
disseminated in March 2002, did not change any analysts' assessments of the
Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report
lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
reports on the uranium deal, but State Department Bureau of Intelligence and
Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment
that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq.


(BLACKED OUT) Conclusion 77. The Intelligence Community relied too heavily
on United Nations (UN) BLACKED OUT information about Iraq's programs and did
not develop a sufficient unilateral collection effort targeting Iraq's
weapons of mass destruction programs and related activities to supplement
UN-collected information and to take its place upon the departure of the UN
inspectors.

(U) Conclusion 83. The Committee did not find any evidence that
Administration officials attempted to coerce, influence or pressure analysts
to change their judgments related to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction
capabilities.


(U) Conclusion 90. The Central Intelligence Agency's assessment that Saddam
Hussein was most likely to use his own intelligence service operatives to
conduct attacks was reasonable, and turned out to be accurate.

(U) Conclusion 92. The Central Intelligence Agency's examination of
contacts, training, safehaven and operational cooperation as indicators of a
possible Iraq-al-Qaida relationship was a reasonable and objective approach
to the question.

(BLACKED OUT) Conclusion 94. The Central Intelligence Agency reasonably and
objectively assessed in Iraqi Support/or Terrorism that the most problematic
area of contact between Iraq and al-Qaida were the reports of training in
the use of non-conventional weapons, specifically chemical and biological
weapons. BLACKED OUT

(U) Conclusion 95. The Central Intelligence Agency's assessment on
safehaven - that al-Qaida or associated operatives were present in Baghdad
and in northeastern Iraq in an area under Kurdish control - was reasonable.

U) Conclusion 97. The Central Intelligence Agency's judgment that Saddam
Hussein, if sufficiently desperate, might employ terrorists with a global
reach - al-Qaida - to conduct terrorist attacks in the event of war, was
reasonable.

U) Conclusion 102. The Committee found that none of the analysts or other
people interviewed by the Committee said that they were pressured to change
their conclusions related to Iraq's links to terrorism. After 9/11, however,
analysts were under tremendous pressure to make correct assessments, to
avoid missing a credible threat, and to avoid an intelligence failure on the
scale of 9/11.

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
wrote:

I am not sure why it is the government's job to wage a war it got into
because the President of the United States lied.

Do you believe that if *you* repeat a lie enough times, it will make it
true?

The President didn't lie about anything.

Thanks. I needed a giggle this morning.

Bush lies about just about everything. Including his reasons and rationale
for invading Iraq.

The reasons and rationale that Bush provided for invading Iraq are no
different from the reasons and rationale behind Congress's passing (and
Clinton's signing) of the "Iraq Liberation Act of 1998" (Public Law
105-338) just 7 years ago.

If the Dems want to pick this fight, they're going to look foolish when the
media starts rolling out quotes (and voting records) from Democrats dating
back to the mid-to-late 90's.

Americans suffering in South Florida
 

NOYB wrote:
"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
nk.net...

NOYB wrote:


So which coast would you have stationed the trucks on? The East or West
coast of Florida?

Many of the trucks that were heading here needed to be diverted to the
East coast, and the middle of the state (Clewiston, etc). Of course,
although we were hit harder than the east coast, we prepared better for
it.




You were better prepared for it? I guess we could have cut down every
tree, removed every pool enclosure, fence, mailbox, traffic sign,
billboard...



We had heavy machinery clearing the roads the same day that Wilma hit.

The damage here was far worse. The trees alone will take months to haul
away. By now you have seen that on the news.

And our long lines at the gas station were on Wednesday, Thursday, and
Friday *before* Wilma hit...when people smartly prepared by fueling up in
advance.

I did the same but that fuel doesn't last long - I was back at work on
Tuesday. About 1/3rd of the stations are still not open now. The port
also didn't have power to fill the trucks that did have stations to ship
gas to.

We also stocked up on water and food, so we didn't have the ridiculously
long lines at the "free" handout stations just one day after the storm.

I'm with you here. People bitching about bottled water and ice the day
after the storm? People still bitching three days later when they had
potable water? Worse were the Mercedes, BMW's, Lexus's (Lexi??), etc.
in line for a bag of ice.

That's what I meant by "better prepared".

This was a 50 year event for Broward. The left coast learned the ropes
from Charley last year.

Dan

Americans suffering in South Florida